Character Discussion Thread

[Scoliosis Jones]

How is Wario related to Arby's, exactly? I know he's fat, but...that seems strange.

That's the slogan where I live. I'm not a fan of Arby's but I figured I would shamelessly make a terrible joke.

 

[Kenith]

That's the slogan where I live. I'm not a fan of Arby's but I figured I would shamelessly make a terrible joke.

Oh right, went right over my head.

Man, there is nothing to talk about.

 

[False Sense]

"Please don't misunderstand."

Cute.

I was kinda joking with WFT and the balance board, so you didn't need to address that one lol.

I generally do agree with what you say about Ike. However, I do feel like pointing out that yes, Ike starred in Path of Radiance, but my point was that joining up partly through the game isn't really everything. Some people could say Ephraim for example, is more important than Eirika, and that may be a better example.

On Rosalina, I do agree with what you say about her, although I think that the comparison at the end is somewhat off. Just because a character shows a major plot role, it doesn't really mean that the character should be in Smash before the other one. Let's say Mario was like FE for a second with generally rotating casts, but Mario and Bowser are the two vets ala Marth and Ike, and this is after Galaxy. While Rosalina (who let's just say represents Robin), is the more story important character, we have Peach (Lucina), who is the more popular character with the marketing appeal who's almost as important, I think Peach takes priority. Honestly, I think the gap in story importance isn't really wide enough between Robin and Lucina to make a big enough difference, while if it was Robin and Tharja per say, it is.

I think Red is kinda the face of the playable trainers however, and he commands 3 Pokemon which are very much icons and staples to the Pokemon franchise.

Well, unfortunately I can't speak for Fire Emblem games outside of the more recent ones like the Tellius series and Awakening, so I wouldn't be able to say how important those specific characters you mentioned are. But again, keep in mind, I'm not saying Lucina isn't important to her game, just that she's not important enough to make it into Smash. There's a difference, I think. Ike's multiple game appearances justify his inclusion into Smash, as well as his late appearance in Radiant Dawn. He's still the most important character from that saga of Fire Emblem.

As for that Mario comparison, it is completely invalid because you forgot about Luigi.

In all seriousness though, it's sort of hard to say what Sakurai would think in this sort of scenario. He might very well go for the more popular character if they are so close in importance. A few things I might want to point out though. One would be potential uniqueness. I know you've already said that you think that the only reason people support Robin is because of the "uniqueness is everything" idea (which isn't quite the case), but it does seem that Sakurai looks at how the character could be a unique fighter when considering characters. Robin definitely wins out in this category. His vast amount of skills he can gain in Awakening, as well as his default ability to use swords and magic simultaneously, gives him the most potential to be unique between him, Chrom and Lucina. There's also the issue of popularity. Lucina is definitely popular, no doubt about that. I believe she's the most popular female from Awakening based on that poll. However, Robin is right behind her. Both male and female Robin are pretty close, if not right behind, Chrom and Lucina in terms of popularity. So the difference in popularity isn't that huge, perhaps not huge enough to actually warrant Lucina's inclusion over the more important Robin (or Chrom for that matter, who's the most popular male from that game, but I'm more focused on Robin here). So, with that considered, I would say that the more important character(s) would be more likely to be included over the less important, although a bit more popular, character.

As for Red, I would say that the Pokemon Trainer themselves is not something that is heavily advertised. There's a bit more focus on the Pokemon themselves rather than the Trainer. Still, the Trainer is very important in the games, and his presence on the roster, as opposed to just Charizard alone, for example, indicates that a characters importance to the series/game overall does matter. Even if that character isn't the face of the game or the most marketed character of the game.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Hopefully we get something really interesting after the long waiting of the PoTD

 

[Kenith]

But again, keep in mind, I'm not saying Lucina isn't important to her game, just that she's not important enough to make it into Smash. There's a difference, I think. Ike's

.....We cannot ever be friends. Ever.

Hopefully we get something really interesting after the long waiting of the PoTD

What, was a Mii sims stage not enough for you? I thought you liked them.

 

[BluePikmin11]

.....We cannot ever be friends. Ever.



What, was a Mii sims stage not enough for you? I thought you liked them.

I want a Brain Age stage that doesn't show Kawashima as a stage element/hazard.
That is the first into making myself satisfied.

 

[Rockaphin]

I'm dying of boredom at work right now, so here's a topic:
What do you all think the fate of and with()?
These are my two mains in Brawl so I would like to hear what you all think will happen.

 

[UltimateWario]

I don't think anyone's going anywhere.

Not sure if sarcastic or not. He was pretty much the main Lord of FE7.

Edit: Legit curious.

Nah, I'm seriously pretty upset that Lyn was the only one who got new art and **** in the Awakening DLC, especially when other games with multiple lords got all of them represented. I'm not even a big fan of FE7, but Eliwood and Hector was cool as ****.

Not big into Lyn, though.

 

[OcarinaOfDoom]

Cute.



Well, unfortunately I can't speak for Fire Emblem games outside of the more recent ones like the Tellius series and Awakening, so I wouldn't be able to say how important those specific characters you mentioned are. But again, keep in mind, I'm not saying Lucina isn't important to her game, just that she's not important enough to make it into Smash. There's a difference, I think. Ike's multiple game appearances justify his inclusion into Smash, as well as his late appearance in Radiant Dawn. He's still the most important character from that saga of Fire Emblem.

As for that Mario comparison, it is completely invalid because you forgot about Luigi.

In all seriousness though, it's sort of hard to say what Sakurai would think in this sort of scenario. He might very well go for the more popular character if they are so close in importance. A few things I might want to point out though. One would be potential uniqueness. I know you've already said that you think that the only reason people support Robin is because of the "uniqueness is everything" idea (which isn't quite the case), but it does seem that Sakurai looks at how the character could be a unique fighter when considering characters. Robin definitely wins out in this category. His vast amount of skills he can gain in Awakening, as well as his default ability to use swords and magic simultaneously, gives him the most potential to be unique between him, Chrom and Lucina. There's also the issue of popularity. Lucina is definitely popular, no doubt about that. I believe she's the most popular female from Awakening based on that poll. However, Robin is right behind her. Both male and female Robin are pretty close, if not right behind, Chrom and Lucina in terms of popularity. So the difference in popularity isn't that huge, perhaps not huge enough to actually warrant Lucina's inclusion over the more important Robin (or Chrom for that matter, who's the most popular male from that game, but I'm more focused on Robin here). So, with that considered, I would say that the more important character(s) would be more likely to be included over the less important, although a bit more popular, character.

As for Red, I would say that the Pokemon Trainer themselves is not something that is heavily advertised. There's a bit more focus on the Pokemon themselves rather than the Trainer. Still, the Trainer is very important in the games, and his presence on the roster, as opposed to just Charizard alone, for example, indicates that a characters importance to the series/game overall does matter. Even if that character isn't the face of the game or the most marketed character of the game.

I agree that Robin is definitely the more unique character. Lucina is more popular in terms of Smash as well, which is where I was going with the popularity, but that isn't that major. But this is a situation where Sakurai could go either way. He might not even have Robin recommended to him by IS, and then he never considers the idea. Who knows. But this was more of a hypothetical "if he had to choose Robin or Lucina" situation anyway.

THe Pokemon Trainer I feel even in Brawl put the focus more on the Pokemon. I think it also did show that popularity was a major thing, as he opted to go for the more popular Kanto starters and trainer over the Hoenn or Sinnoh ones. I think Red as a whole was perhaps a face of Red and Blue to the fandom. He was already an established reoccuring character in HGSS as well. But that's just me rambling at this point lol.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I'm dying of boredom at work right now, so here's a topic:
What do you all think the fate of and with()?
These are my two mains in Brawl so I would like to hear what you all think will happen.

I don't see Ike going away, but I can see him being outprioritized by a FE:A newcomer, that's all I can say.
As Pokemon Trainer, I think he's a very expendable character whom can easily be replaced with a new Pokemon character.

 

[Louie G.]

Um...
Who wants to talk about character reveals again?
I'd say Yoshi or Wario, but I have a strange feeling about Jigglypuff.

 

[Substitution]

As Pokemon Trainer, I think he's a very expendable character whom can easily be replaced with a new Pokemon character.

Yes, let's just cut one of the biggest characters of Pokemon.

 

[Louie G.]

Yes, let's just cut one of the biggest characters of Pokemon.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Yes, let's just cut one of the biggest characters of Pokemon.

Well, I have a feeling the uniqueness of the character Game Freak wants is going to outprioritize the character's importance.

 

[RadRedi]

It's times like this I wish I played Fire Emblem just so I know what in Heaven's name everybody's talking about...

I'm dying of boredom at work right now, so here's a topic:
What do you all think the fate of and with()?
These are my two mains in Brawl so I would like to hear what you all think will happen.

After the resurfacing of Toon Link and Lucario, I think that it's safe to say that characters are a little more sacred than we mere Smashboards dwellers would like to believe.

To my understanding, Ike is one of the more well known of the Fire Emblem lords, and he isn't a clone of anybody, so I'm inclined to say that he's staying. And the concept of the most famous Pokemon Trainer and/or the most famous Pokemon starters (including one of the most famous Pokemon ever) being swapped out willy-nilly in the name of promotion is kind of insane.

 

[Kenith]

Um...
Who wants to talk about character reveals again?
I'd say Yoshi or Wario, but I have a strange feeling about Jigglypuff.

I'd rather not talk about that, as I don't want to get my hopes up. Ever.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Alright guys prepare to judge me a little bit. Or maybe not.

Based on the recent quote by Mr. Hideo Kojima, I have prepared myself for the possible conclusion that Snake is gone. It is not something that I am looking forward to, but can understand why he would be removed.

That said, I am formulating something that some may believe I am crazy for. In the event that Solid Snake is not playable in Smash 4, I will be creating a thread in this section of the boards for support to bring him back to Smash. I'm serious.

I'm not going to count my chickens before they hatch, because I'm not wasting my time typing things up in the event that he isn't getting the boot. But at some point in the next six months, we may very well know of his fate...and I will be calling upon all who support my cause to help out.

I'm not sure how I'll do it, but where there's a will there is a way. I'm not willing to wait 6 years for Snake to come back, because I can see him becoming the next Mewtwo. At this point in the industry, there is simply no reason to not consider Downloadable content as an option to satisfy fans.

In short, depending on future events, I plan to start a campaign to bring Snake back to Smash. I will create petitions, a fan page..whatever it takes. I hope I have support in Smashboards, and other sites, because it will probably need all the help it can get.

 

[Louie G.]

Well, I have a feeling the uniqueness of the character Game Freak wants is going to outprioritize the character's importance.

So...
Mewtwo.
Gamefreak doesn't care about making this Smash Bros unique, they care about advertising the newest Pokemon game.
And Pokemon Trainer's Pokemon do that, actually.
(Ugh, IOS 7 sucks for Smashboards)

 

[BluePikmin11]

So...
Mewtwo.
Gamefreak doesn't care about making this Smash Bros unique, they care about advertising the newest Pokemon game.
And Pokemon Trainer's Pokemon do that, actually.
(Ugh, IOS 7 sucks for Smashboards)

But Sakurai is the one in charge of the characters, not Game Freak, he'll decide which Pokemon are best for the roster and what Pokemon contrasts the Smash cast the most.

 

[Substitution]

View attachment 10634

I think we're missing the point here.

PKMN Trainer is a major part of the Pokemon franchise.
And let's face it. You can't replace "Red". He is the Pokemon Trainer.

And to be fair, Mewtwo was considered in Brawl.

Well, I have a feeling the uniqueness of the character Game Freak wants is going to outprioritize the character's importance.

For what? The exact same concept?
Look, while Gamefreak loves relevance. They aren't stupid.
There's a reason why they picked him of all characters. Because of how big Kanto played in Pokemon's growth.

And to be fair, PKMN Trainer is a unique idea.
Let's face it, no one is a three in one, he's one built on mindgames.
It's just a shame his mechanics brought him down.

Gamefreak doesn't care about making this Smash Bros unique, they care about advertising the newest Pokemon game.
And Pokemon Trainer's Pokemon do that, actually.

Pokemon X/Y correct?
The Kanto starters we're in that game.
So, we have relevance.

Your move BluePikmin.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

I'm dying of boredom at work right now, so here's a topic:
What do you all think the fate of and with()?
These are my two mains in Brawl so I would like to hear what you all think will happen.

Ike? Dead. Pokemon Trainer? Eh, I kinda doubt he's dead, but it's possible.

 

[False Sense]

.....We cannot ever be friends. Ever.

Well that's a pity. I typically like your posts. But I guess it's impossible to be friends with someone when you disagree over one thing.

I agree that Robin is definitely the more unique character. Lucina is more popular in terms of Smash as well, which is where I was going with the popularity, but that isn't that major. But this is a situation where Sakurai could go either way. He might not even have Robin recommended to him by IS, and then he never considers the idea. Who knows. But this was more of a hypothetical "if he had to choose Robin or Lucina" situation anyway.

THe Pokemon Trainer I feel even in Brawl put the focus more on the Pokemon. I think it also did show that popularity was a major thing, as he opted to go for the more popular Kanto starters and trainer over the Hoenn or Sinnoh ones. I think Red as a whole was perhaps a face of Red and Blue to the fandom. He was already an established reoccuring character in HGSS as well. But that's just me rambling at this point lol.

Seems like we've reached a point of unknowns. Though I think I might have read something about the main developer of Awakening's favorite character being Robin, which could make him a possible suggestion in terms of Smash characters. I can't verify that though, so at this point it seems we'll just have to see what happens. I do hope that I presented my side of the argument well enough.

And as for the Pokemon Trainer, that's a fair point. I might say that if popularity were everything, they would have just added Charizard and not tacked on Squirtle and Ivysaur, which some people on here find unnecessary, but you bring up a good point. Personally, I just hope he returns at this point, with all his pokemon intact. I've got my fingers crossed for tomorrow.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Ike? Dead. Pokemon Trainer? Eh, I kinda doubt he's dead, but it's possible.

Ike is most certainly not dead.

 

[RadRedi]

Alright guys prepare to judge me a little bit. Or maybe not.

Based on the recent quote by Mr. Hideo Kojima, I have prepared myself for the possible conclusion that Snake is gone. It is not something that I am looking forward to, but can understand why he would be removed.

That said, I am formulating something that some may believe I am crazy for. In the event that Solid Snake is not playable in Smash 4, I will be creating a thread in this section of the boards for support to bring him back to Smash. I'm serious.

I'm not going to count my chickens before they hatch, because I'm not wasting my time typing things up in the event that he isn't getting the boot. But at some point in the next six months, we may very well know of his fate...and I will be calling upon all who support my cause to help out.

I'm not sure how I'll do it, but where there's a will there is a way. I'm not willing to wait 6 years for Snake to come back, because I can see him becoming the next Mewtwo. At this point in the industry, there is simply no reason to not consider Downloadable content as an option to satisfy fans.

In short, depending on future events, I plan to start a campaign to bring Snake back to Smash. I will create petitions, a fan page..whatever it takes. I hope I have support in Smashboards, and other sites, because it will probably need all the help it can get.

While I will always feel like Snake was a really weird inclusion (and not in a good way), he was in Brawl, nonetheless, and I can understand why you would feel this way. While not the same, legally speaking, it would be like if Sakurai had made comments hinting at Meta Knight being taken out, for me. Smash games don't get cranked out at the rate of Call of Duty games, so it's not like just waiting it out is that realistic of an option.

If you're alluding to backing up the idea of getting Snake in DLC, then you have my support.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I
The Kanto starters we're in that game.
So, we have relevance.

Your move BluePikmin.

Still expendable, since there's still so many unique options for Pokemon for Sakurai to pass out.
Although no one is going to get rid of Pikachu obviously.

 

[Louie G.]

But Sakurai is the one in charge of the characters, not Game Freak, he'll decide which Pokemon are best for the roster.

Sakurai is in charge, yes, but he's not going to pass up Mewtwo or cut one of the most popular additions to Brawl.
Which is Charizard, not Pokemon Trainer.

@ Substitution
Red is replaceable.
Look at Gold and Silver, or X and Y.
Mewtwo is more important than Red, also.
There, I said it.

I think you misunderstood me.
I said that the Kanto starters DO advertise Gen 6.
Read the whole thing next time before jumping to conclusions.

 

[Kenith]

Ike? Dead. Pokemon Trainer? Eh, I kinda doubt he's dead, but it's possible.

How is Ike dead?

I don't see Ike going away, but I can see him being outprioritized by a FE:A newcomer, that's all I can say.
As Pokemon Trainer, I think he's a very expendable character whom can easily be replaced with a new Pokemon character.

A Fire Emblem Awakening newcomer you say?

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Ike? Dead.

image removed

 

[False Sense]

Still expendable, since there's still so many unique options for Pokemon for Sakurai to pass out.
Although no one is going to get rid of Pikachu obviously.

Well, yeah, there are obviously a ton of unique possibilities for Pokemon characters...

But why would they replace the Pokemon Trainers original, iconic, popular, unique, and relevant pokemon for some new ones? Especially when the Kanto starters were much less relevant at the time of Brawl than they are now...

 

[UltimateWario]

So much arguing when we're probably just going to get Brawlmon + Mewtwo.

I think Lucario's return has proven that even those with the shakiest staying power (Charizard definitely doesn't have "shaky" staying power) will be returning. That also makes me think that, unless Sakurai is going to have some sort of trouble re-acquiring him (he wouldn't), Snake isn't going anywhere. If you were to ask pre-reveal, I would've told you that I thought Lucario was the first in line for the chopping block, especially with Mewtwo's return practically a given.

That, however, isn't the case, so I don't think it'll be the case with anyone else.

 

[Kenith]

Well that's a pity. I typically like your posts. But I guess it's impossible to be friends with someone when you disagree over one thing.

Um...that wasn't meant to be taken literally. We can be friends if you want...but I still don't see what you mean.

So much arguing when we're just going to get Brawlmon + Mewtwo.

That is both the worst case and best case scenario, honestly.

 

[Substitution]

Still expendable, since there's still so many unique options for Pokemon for Sakurai to pass out.
Although no one is going to get rid of Pikachu obviously.

Like what?
What Pokemon (besides Mewtwo mind you) reaches the same level of popularity as Pokemon Trainer?
Better yet, the Kanto starters.
I really like to know.

@ Substitution
Red is replaceable.
Look at Gold and Silver, or X and Y.
Mewtwo is more important than Red, also.
There, I said it.

Then, how come Mewtwo disappeared?
Why wasn't Pokemon Trainer cut instead of Mewtwo?
Maybe he isn't as high and mighty as we thought...

I think you misunderstood me.
I said that the Kanto starters DO advertise Gen 6.
Read the whole thing next time before jumping to conclusions.

And you misunderstand me.
I understand that. They do advertise X/Y.
They have relevance. They can be the reps of X/Y.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Well, yeah, there are obviously a ton of unique possibilities for Pokemon characters...

But why would they replace the Pokemon Trainers original, iconic, popular, unique, and relevant pokemon for some new ones? Especially when the Kanto starters were much less relevant at the time of Brawl than they are now...

Because takes the most space in GB I'm guessing.
The PKMN newcomer idea they are considering could potentially be better than the Trainer's 3 switch-in Pokemon mechanic.

And you misunderstand me.
I understand that. They do advertise X/Y.
They have relevance. They can be the reps of X/Y.

Arr? I didn't say that?

 

[Louie G.]

Wait a second @ Substitution , have you ever even played a Pokemon game?
You think that Red is THE Pokemon Trainer, when there is no real "trainer" rather a changing avatar.
And I don't know if you understand Mewtwo's importance, but he's probably the most important and most iconic legendary of them all. He received 2 Mega evolutions and appeared in 2 new Pokemon movies.
Was he cut? Yes.
Was it a mistake? Totally. Sakurai himself likely realizes his error and is working on Mewtwo as we speak.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I've already covered why they aren't going to replace the Kanto Trainer with a new one. It's quite simple.

Kanto Pokemon are the most iconic. Inarguable.

Adding a new team requires more work...the work of three newcomers actually. Why waste the time on 3 characters for one series when we can get 3 characters for three different series?

It sets a precedent for future Smash titles, replacing previous gen trainers with the newest, and that gets old quick.

 

[Louie G.]

Wait another second, are you claiming that THE KANTO STARTERS WILL REPRESENT GENERATION 6 WITHOUT MEWTWO?
Alright, I don't really think you know too much about Pokemon at all.
And many Pokemon reach the popularity of Squirtle and Ivysaur, mind you.
Charizard is the big kahuna.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Like what?
What Pokemon (besides Mewtwo mind you) reaches the same level of popularity as Pokemon Trainer?
Better yet, the Kanto starters.
I really like to know.

Were talking about Uniqueness, not popularity.
No matter how important they are, I still think they can be replaced for a potentially better unique option.
It simply feels like a wasted opportunity since theres so many creative options many people could potentially love.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Were talking about Uniqueness, not popularity.
No matter how important they are, I still think they can be replaced for a potentially better unique option.
It simply feels like a wasted opportunity since theres so many creative options many people could potentially love.

At this point, Mewtwo not making Smash 4 would be a travesty.

If he doesn't get in, and we get a Pokemon nobody really asked for, then Sakurai will likely be needing some burn heal from the flames of hatred toward him.

Mewtwo is not a character you pass over. He's the king right now.

 

[False Sense]

Um...that wasn't meant to be taken literally. We can be friends if you want...but I still don't see what you mean.

Well, I was being rather sarcastic when I said that. It's a habit.

As for Lucina, I just don't think she'd get in when there are more important characters from her game.

 

[Louie G.]

Were talking about Uniqueness, not popularity.
No matter how important they are, I still think they can be replaced for a potentially better unique option.
It simply feels like a wasted opportunity since theres so many creative options many people could potentially love.

In Trainer's defense, the idea is very unique.
You may have seen it before, in Brawl, but no character plays like PT.