Character Discussion Thread

[Wolfie557]

Bayonetta guns? They are pretty ornamental and don't really look like actual guns. I see no problem with them.

The shoots could perhaps only be part of the sound effect that happens during attacks, and a visual effect ala Olimar's flowers ect ect. JUST like in the Bayonetta games where you could shoot guns in the end of every attack during any part/s of the combo.

Could be a special projectile too that looks like a grey fox's lazer, with different shades of grey.

 

[Kenith]

My sentiments exactly. While I don't expect him to go through every AT, requested character, and whatnot, I'd a least want him to explain a few more characters exclusion other than Chrom and Ridley (I may be missing a few.)

Honestly...he might not be allowed to do that. After all, explaining why certain characters didn't make the cut or why they're were passed over would confirm/disconfirm DLC...and Nintendo loves their surprises.
I would enjoy knowing why he passed on Dixie Kong, though. Seemed like a no-brainer character choice.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Do you know the link to the group? Now I'm pretty curious.

Nevermind, it was in the older Super Smash Bros. Wii U/3DS topic and any non-character thread that is locked here is gone for good. So it will be impossible for anyone to dig up the original topic since it's in purgatory at the moment.

My sentiments exactly. While I don't expect him to go through every AT, requested character, and whatnot, I'd a least want him to explain a few more characters exclusion other than Chrom, Takamaru, and Ridley

Fixed that for you!

 

[BKupa666]

The answer is just going to be, "Sakurai could make her a character though, so you're wrong!"

This thread's past 1850 pages, summed up in one sentence.

 

[ZeldaFan01]

Honestly...he might not be allowed to do that. After all, explaining why certain characters didn't make the cut or why they're were passed over would confirm/disconfirm DLC...and Nintendo loves their surprises.
I would enjoy knowing why he passed on Dixie Kong, though. Seemed like a no-brainer character choice.

I see why you'd want him to explain himself about Dixie because of how her and Diddy Kong were supposed to be a tag team in SSBB. So will they now keep her as a Trophy, or will they come to their senses and finally put her as a standalone character like she deserves? Decisions..Decisions..

Nevermind, it was in the older Super Smash Bros. Wii U/3DS topic and any non-character thread that is locked here is gone for good. So it will be impossible for anyone to dig up the original topic since it's in purgatory at the moment.

Fixed that for you!

Err, sorry but I never knew who he was until I saw him as an AT in SSB4 nor do I really care if he was upgraded to a playable character or not
Edit: oh wait I see what you mean, forget what I said

 

[A Distant Demon]

I want to refute a few points but i really really dont want to continue this argument because there is 0% chance of it going anywhere. . .


Ukulele is so cool. I want someone to open a support thread just for ****s and giggles. Maybe being a spiritual sucesso would lead to being spiritual Banjo DLC
seriously if this game is done well and banjo is essentially back in business but in disguise I will be so excited. TBH i like the chameleon and bat combo more than bear and bird. (although one clearly rolls off the tongue better)

 

[Deleted member]

Why is Sakurai so reluctant to put Ridley in the game where all "problems" that he supposedly has are trivial and can be fixed easily?

If they are so "trival" and "can be fixed easily".....why the **** hasn't it been done yet?

Didn't it ever occur to you how illogical that is, that maybe if the problems are recognized that they aren't so "trivial" in the long run and if the solution is so goddamn easy there's no problems to begin with?

Because Sakurai hates Ridley

Yes, that's certainly it. That must be why he tried to give Ridley an actual role in the game, arguably executed improperly it may be, and willingly acknowledged that he was a popular request and gave an explanation on why he didn't make the fighter roster instead of completely ignoring the fans and keeping Ridley from being anything other than a simple trophy if that at all.
Because he bloody hates him.

 

[Kalimdori]

If they are so "trival" and "can be fixed easily".....why the **** hasn't it been done yet?

Because Sakurai doesn't want too.

The reasoning is trivial, having qualms about altering a character's physical design, but altering a character's personality and/or characteristics is somehow OK, is a bit backwards in terms of what makes a character who they are. And the problems are easily fixed, otherwise Bagan's mod of Ridley wouldn't be possible.

 

[Wolfie557]

Yooka-Laylee >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Banko-Kazzoie.

To me , Banjo is not relevant at all. But the main reason I don't want them in is because the design of the character and personality puts me off and generally I do not like it as I don't see anything to like.

Yooka-Laylee on the other hand......already seem much better and more creative in how they move or what they do. (Fly, use tongue, roll ala Dillon the AT.)

My two cents. #Yooka-Laylee>Banjo-Kazooie.
(even the simple thing like a name sounds better imo.)

 

[Burruni]

Because Sakurai doesn't want too.

The reasoning is trivial, having qualms about altering a character's physical design, but altering a character's personality and/or characteristics is somehow OK, is a bit backwards in terms of what makes a character who they are. And the problems are easily fixed, otherwise Bagan's mod of Ridley wouldn't be possible.

The mod that a) uses the Other M design which was agreed on the whole to be a more "bulky" model and thus scales better than the "Classic" Ridley design that fans cry for and b) still has an absurdly long tail that makes Ridley by default have a longer model than Wario's bike?

Because if so, that is something that people would easily argue is a point for "Just because something is possible, doesn't mean that it should be done." Sakurai never said that Ridley as a fighter is impossible. He believes that he works better as a boss.

Edit: Mod I'm referring to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gp3kqUw_s8

 

[Wolfie557]

The mod that a) uses the Other M design which was agreed on the whole to be a more "bulky" model and thus scales better than the "Classic" Ridley design that fans cry for and b) still has an absurdly long tail that makes Ridley by default have a longer model than Wario's bike?

Because if so, that is something that people would easily argue is a point for "Just because something is possible, doesn't mean that it should be done." Sakurai never said that Ridley as a fighter is impossible. He believes that he works better as a boss.

Edit: Mod I'm referring to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gp3kqUw_s8

I'm on the side that it should be done.

Also, I've seen a mod that uses the skinny Ridley, which is similar but the tail is always curled up except for attacks. It would imo be perfect if it used the meaty Other M Design, and the tail to be curled up most of the time...

 

[Burruni]

I'm on the side that it should be done.

There are going to be people on both sides of the fence.
The man at the helm of this project and entire series happens to be on the side of "Not."
That really is all that needs to be said for now.

 

[A Distant Demon]

The mod that a) uses the Other M design which was agreed on the whole to be a more "bulky" model and thus scales better than the "Classic" Ridley design that fans cry for and b) still has an absurdly long tail that makes Ridley by default have a longer model than Wario's bike?

Because if so, that is something that people would easily argue is a point for "Just because something is possible, doesn't mean that it should be done." Sakurai never said that Ridley as a fighter is impossible. He believes that he works better as a boss.

Edit: Mod I'm referring to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gp3kqUw_s8

see? compare something to ridley and you get ridley arguments.

tail is irrelevant because
a. it can be shortened
b. it can just be put in the z-axis


I still prefer the other m model.

 

[Wolfie557]

In the same video....this comment is worth reading:

The more I see from this mod the more I wonder why Sakurai and his team could not have done this. I honestly don't see how this detracts from his character or makes him less threatening. The way this player pulled off these follow-ups in succession with Ridley makes him seem more vicious, this seems more closer to Ridley than that bumbling "Stage Hazard" Ridley in Smash 4. If size was the only thing that made Ridley threatening then people wouldn't have been asking him to be re-sized in the first place, and if size was truly the only thing that makes him threatening, then that's a pretty shallow character, just goes to show that people don't actually know anything about Ridley's actual personality and character and probably don't even care about his personality and character to begin with and just believe in a stupid meme.

For now, I'm just hoping Sakurai changes his mind enough to make Ridely playable someday.

 

[Deleted member]

For now on I am going to skim all Bayonetta arguments. These have gotten old fast.

It's sad to know that a lot of people request veterans to come back because "it isn't fair" or "why did they have to be cut". And I just know that some of those people will play as them a few times then never play as them again. That said, I'd be happy with any of them to come back but I would rather have characters like Isaac, Inkling, and Krystal etc. because they bring something new and unique. In other words, I'd rather have more newcomers and less veterans as DLC.

Think of it like this; veterans allow them to work on characters because as Mewtwo and Lucas indicate, they are much easier to make than an entirely full-fledged newcomers. I honestly can't see us getting beyond four full fledged newcomers and even four is stretching it (I am including Ryu in that) and I would still stand by this even if no veterans got made DLC.

Listen here if you're a Banjo-Kazooie Fan.
Your local Burruni has the plan.
While their DLC chances are frankly thin,
There's a surefire way to win.
Sure we wait for the Smash Bros. 5
And with this duo, our reborn duo shall be alive!

(This is the official duo for the Banjo-Kazooie Successor, Yooka & Layle)

I'm not nearly ready to throw in support for them being in Smash yet, but I am really excited for this game. Chances are I am going to throw money to this game once funding starts. I love Rare and to see a spiritual successor to Banjo-Kazooie has me ecstatic. Hopefully in the distant future they become important third-party characters; if I end up loving them as characters I may end up supporting them for a Smash game.

OH, I get why they are called Yooka Laylee, why did it take me that long to figure out.


Where can I find the debate?
Was this about Banjo and Kazooie and Chronobound in the leaks group?

It was back in December, 2012 IIRC and on the first general character thread made when the Smash 4 forums began (we're almost three years onto the creation of it btw). I remember it vividly.

 

[Burruni]

I'm not nearly ready to throw in support for them being in Smash yet, but I am really excited for this game. Chances are I am going to throw money to this game once funding starts. I love Rare and to see a spiritual successor to Banjo-Kazooie has me ecstatic. Hopefully in the distant future they become important third-party characters; if I end up loving them as characters I may end up supporting them for a Smash game.

A) I said for Smash 5. We're a good like 7 years from that coming into play.
B) "Third Party" is honestly up to question with how openly Playtonic said they'd love to be on Nintendo (specifically WiiU) as, in yet another way, a repeat of Rareware itself.

We'll see what happens though. I namely wanted people to know that the characters were unveiled on the eve of the comapny putting out a Kickstarter for the game.

 

[Kalimdori]

The mod that a) uses the Other M design which was agreed on the whole to be a more "bulky" model and thus scales better than the "Classic" Ridley design that fans cry for and b) still has an absurdly long tail that makes Ridley by default have a longer model than Wario's bike?

Because if so, that is something that people would easily argue is a point for "Just because something is possible, doesn't mean that it should be done." Sakurai never said that Ridley as a fighter is impossible. He believes that he works better as a boss.

Edit: Mod I'm referring to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gp3kqUw_s8

Been staring at this for a good 5 minutes and I can't figure out what kind of point you are trying to make... Did you mean to quote me?

Must have, you're referencing the same mod as me (Though that video's outdated, the tail and animations have had so much work done on them since then)

What you are saying doesn't change the fact that the problems are easily fixed, and it's using a preexisting model of Ridley no less. They'd be even easier to fix if Sakurai were to simply make his own version of Ridley for Smash, which, as I said myself, he didn't want too.

So again, what's your point?

 

[Stratos]

Some of the attacks of Mini-Kangaroo could be based in the series of mini-games or not?

 

[Champ Gold]

This image perfectly describes this thread.

 

[Stratos]

The Daitoryo is the first character of Nintendo. Worth making appearance.

 

[A Distant Demon]

The Daitoryo is the first character of Nintendo. Worth making appearance.

is this a blue alt?

and no thank you. I still dislike characters being based on repping something or other.

 

[Stratos]

I hope for Dillon in next Super Smash Bros. coming as newcomer, no as Assist Trophy.

 

[BluePikmin11]

From Daitouryou to Dillon?
Are you a bot account or something?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Been staring at this for a good 5 minutes and I can't figure out what kind of point you are trying to make... Did you mean to quote me?

Must have, you're referencing the same mod as me (Though that video's outdated, the tail and animations have had so much work done on them since then)

What you are saying doesn't change the fact that the problems are easily fixed, and it's using a preexisting model of Ridley no less. They'd be even easier to fix if Sakurai were to simply make his own version of Ridley for Smash, which, as I said myself, he didn't want too.

So again, what's your point?

(Looks at video) This is... Interesting to say the least. I though the ideal competitive match was supposed to be fast paced. Shows how much I know. Ridley seems to be a mesh of Giga Bowser's height, Mewtwo's weight, Shulk's range, and Bowser's power. This build of Ridley would either be broken worse than Diddy Kong (If you consider Diddy Kong to be broken) or utterly useless in ssb4.

 

[Kalimdori]

(Looks at video) This is... Interesting to say the least. I though the ideal competitive match was supposed to be fast paced. Shows how much I know. Ridley seems to be a mesh of Giga Bowser's height, Mewtwo's weight, Shulk's range, and Bowser's power. This build of Ridley would either be broken worse than Diddy Kong (If you consider Diddy Kong to be broken) or utterly useless in ssb4.

Giga Bowser's height? You sure you watched the right video?

 

[TKactual]

So um at some point today we were arguing something about Bayonetta and something about her guns being too realistic for her to be in smash (plus numerous other reasons). Does having realistic guns mean that characters such as Sami from Advance Wars and the Grunt from Battalion Wars mean they don't have a chance to appear in a future smash game or could nintendo work around it? I asked this earlier but no one answered (I think).

 

[A Distant Demon]

So um at some point today we were arguing something about Bayonetta and something about her guns being too realistic for her to be in smash (plus numerous other reasons). Does having realistic guns mean that characters such as Sami from Advance Wars and the Grunt from Battalion Wars mean they don't have a chance to appear in a future smash game or could nintendo work around it? I asked this earlier but no one answered (I think).

well grunt has the problem of being from a dead franchise and not being czar gorgi

ehh the gun thing is a little overlooked at and I dont think it would be too big of a problem. was only arguing the fact someone was saying a gun wasnt a gun.


I really wonder if the andy/sami split changes anything. I mean i dont either will be playable anytime soon but i wonder if things could be ever so slightly different (trophy) if there was a united front.

 

[TKactual]

well grunt has the problem of being from a dead franchise and not being czar gorgi

ehh the gun thing is a little overlooked at and I dont think it would be too big of a problem. was only arguing the fact someone was saying a gun wasnt a gun.


I really wonder if the andy/sami split changes anything. I mean i dont either will be playable anytime soon but i wonder if things could be ever so slightly different (trophy) if there was a united front.

True but when it comes to games, franchises can come back from the dead. Would have been nice to get a Battalion Wars 3 on Wii U. The console is basically perfect for the games.

Be funny if we finally got an Advance Wars rep, and it ended up being Max and not Sami or Andy.

 

[A Distant Demon]

True but when it comes to games, franchises can come back from the dead. Would have been nice to get a Battalion Wars 3 on Wii U. The console is basically perfect for the games.

Be funny if we finally got an Advance Wars rep, and it ended up being Max and not Sami or Andy.

batallion wars 3 on any console would be great. . .

obviously we aren't getting any CO. they are just going to upgrade the assist trophy to playable.

 

[Wintropy]

As much as I would expect Andy to represent the series, I think Sami's the coolest of the main three.

Dat tank top do'~

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Some people in here seriously lack sense and just ignore facts, or what the opposite side of a debate is saying.

It makes them look very foolish.

 

[A10theHero]

In my opinion, for a third-party character, Spyro the Dragon has the best chances overall.

Spoiler

Well, that would be true only if people actually voted for him.

 

[Deleted member]

Because Sakurai doesn't want too.


The reasoning is trivial, having qualms about altering a character's physical design, but altering a character's personality and/or characteristics is somehow OK, is a bit backwards in terms of what makes a character who they are. And the problems are easily fixed, otherwise Bagan's mod of Ridley wouldn't be possible.

Bagan's mod only proves Sakurai's point; drastic changes would have to be made to Ridley's design for him to function as a balanced character (and I'm not referring to the aesthetic ones such as the beak or palette). And even then, how balanced it really is is questionable and honestly irrelevant in context of Smash 4 considering its designed around Project: M, a different beast altogether.
And while you may find it trivial because you clearly just don't give a **** unless it's to your liking, it isn't trivial in the slightest.
Not a single character has had to have multiple aspects of their design removed or drastically altered for the purpose of balance.
Hell, the only changes have been additional details that were either strictly aesthetic or for the purpose of fighting style (i.e. Wolf's claws, Zamus' Jet Boots, etc.)
That being said, I feel at the very least Sakurai could have had a Smash-exclusive hybrid design for Ridley that borrows some of the Other M design's aesthetics like with Zero Suit Samus instead of using Other M as the base like standard Samus. It's not exactly making drastic changes to the base design if it's not the base design to begin with.

 

[Kalimdori]

And while you may find it trivial because you clearly just don't give a **** unless it's to your liking

Ya know, I normally expect to feel like I'm being taunted by a kid a few years old then me back at Jr. High when I see you've quoted one of my posts, but damn, lighten up! It's perfectly possible to have a discussion/argument and be a respectable human being at the same time.

And no, I don't find it trivial because "I don't give a **** unless it's to my liking". I find it trivial because I consider a character's physical design to be the least important part of who that character is. How a character acts, what their likes and dislikes are, personality quirks, etc. are much more important to who a character is then what they look like, any character artist could tell you that. I find Sakurai's reasoning so trivial because he's putting way too much stock into things that really aren't important to who Ridley is, and treating them as if those are his defining character traits. (Especially when he's already shown that he is good at creating characters, part of what made Kid Icarus Uprising such an enjoyable game) Kind of a bizarre "Don't judge a book by it's cover" scenario.

Bagan's mod, while flawed and imbalanced (And made by a kid), is still very obviously Ridley. His identity wasn't suddenly lost when he was resized, and I'm honestly shocked (To the point that I almost don't believe it's his actual reasoning) that a competent developer like Sakurai would try to claim otherwise.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

Ridley can be done properly (like any other character outside of ridicolous things like Andross, Kraid, Mother Brain, etc) and nobody (im counting those who actually wants Ridley playable) gives a s**t if he is smaller than usual. There. Everything else is subjective. Sakurai just doesn't wants to. Hell, he and his team don't even care about how Ridley was done considering what kind of glitches he has and how horribly and lazily his model was done (its exactly same as Other M model except so much worse that those who are responsible for it must die in a fire). Not much can be done until Sakurai changes his mind.
Until that happens like it happened with the Villager and Pac-Man (and possibly Ryu, i dunno), closest thing to playable Ridley in Smash we will get is either if Project M will make their own version, my mod or in Super Smash Bros Crusade.

...either way, vote for Ridley just to show you don't give a s**t about Sakurai's excuse. It won't make him playable for this game, but will still show something.

 

[A10theHero]

Actually, all the disillusioned Ridley fans should vote for Spyro.
They're both purple dragons but Spyro is not too big for Smash.
He's pretty much the spiritual successor to Ridley!

 

[BaganSmashBros]

Actually, all the disillusioned Ridley fans should vote for Spyro.
They're both purple dragons but Spyro is not too big for Smash.
He's pretty much the spiritual successor to Ridley!

No, they should vote for the Xenomorph from Alien: Isolation...with wings and a pterosaur's head. Because thats what playable Ridley is .
...
...
...still don't get it why neither Spyro nor Crash were in Playstation's Not-Smash Bros.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Actually, all the disillusioned Ridley fans should vote for Spyro.
They're both purple dragons but Spyro is not too big for Smash.
He's pretty much the spiritual successor to Ridley!

Except Spyro is dead, Ridley keeps coming back
When I say "Because Sakurai hates Ridley" It's because how I've seen fanfiction with a more accurate portrayal of his character

 

[Ura]

Where's the love for Max in all the Advance Wars discussion? Andy and Sami always get mentioned but he's always brushed to the side.

 

[Deleted member]

Ya know, I normally expect to feel like I'm being taunted by a kid a few years old then me back at Jr. High when I see you've quoted one of my posts, but damn, lighten up! It's perfectly possible to have a discussion/argument and be a respectable human being at the same time.

And I normally expect to be given nothing short of a stealth "you're wrong and you're a damned idiot for even thinking that" whenever I see you quote me.

See where we have a problem?

And no, I don't find it trivial because "I don't give a **** unless it's to my liking". I find it trivial because I consider a character's physical design to be the least important part of who that character is. How a character acts, what their likes and dislikes are, personality quirks, etc. are much more important to who a character is then what they look like, any character artist could tell you that. I find Sakurai's reasoning so trivial because he's putting way too much stock into things that really aren't important to who Ridley is, and treating them as if those are his defining character traits. (Especially when he's already shown that he is good at creating characters, part of what made Kid Icarus Uprising such an enjoyable game) Kind of a bizarre "Don't judge a book by it's cover" scenario.

I will admit, this is an opinion I can respect.

At the same time however, I cannot agree that physical design is the least important aspect of a character. Though that is a long winded discussion in itself that'll stray from the main point, so I'm not really going to get into that.

The main point I'm trying to make clear is that while Sakurai takes certain liberties in design aspects of characters, he pretty much stays true to the source (though it's really the development team in general). In fact, the source material, be it in-game models, artwork from the original creators, etc. are used as the reference points for each character. So if anything, blame Sakamoto or whoever did Ridley's concept art in Other M for designing him in such a way that wouldn't work without some drastic changes.

Bagan's mod, while flawed and imbalanced (And made by a kid), is still very obviously Ridley. His identity wasn't suddenly lost when he was resized, and I'm honestly shocked (To the point that I almost don't believe it's his actual reasoning) that a competent developer like Sakurai would try to claim otherwise.

You're focusing solely on size. If size was the only issue, it wouldn't be an issue.