Character Discussion Thread

[Dragoncharystary]

I think Wolf is pretty much confirmed. Other than him any characters could appear.

 

[Scamper52596]

I think Wolf is pretty much confirmed. Other than him any characters could appear.

The fun part is trying to figure out which characters could appear.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Wolf is so obvious of a DLC choice right now, that nothing else needs to be said really, he should be in your DLC prediction list always.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

You know who is high on my prediction list? Mirror B!.........Just kidding. He would be hilarious but....no.
Being serious, I don't think i's out of the question to get most of the veterans from Melee and Brawl. I say most because Snake and the Ice Climbers have some crap going on in their lives. I don't know if they can get their situations resolved. (Maybe the Ice Climbers could work if they were 8-bit?)

 

[ZeldaMaster]

Am I the only one who hates the, "This character is deserving!" argument? Ugh. I hate it. Every character is arbitrarily deserving for arbitrary reasons. If you were truly "deserving" to get into Smash, why aren't you in there already?

If the reasons a character is "deserving" were so important, why didn't they get in over a character who "isn't deserving"? So K.Rool is completely deserving, yet Palutena, Shulk, and Greninja got in with not even close to the same amount of "deservingness"...it makes no sense and means nothing.

I love K.Rool too. I think he should be in, and I think he will be in if Sakurai and the dev team look at how many votes he gets. He'll get in because of his popularity and moveset potential. Not because he's "deserving" by fan standards. He's a long time villain and classic villain of a big name Nintendo franchise. Sure, that's a good quality. But if that didn't get him in yet, I think it's much less important than what he can do, and how many people want him.

I personally believe that the poll is going to show a few things. First, it's going to show stuff we already knew: Veterans will get a good amount of votes. So Wolf, Snake, arguably Ice Climbers...they'll all get a good amount of votes. Second, very popular newcomer choices. Your K.Rool, Banjo, Inklings, Isaac...probably will top the chart, possibly followed by Wonder Red.

Then it's going to come down to, why add this character over that one? What can they provide? Suddenly some fans think this ballot throws all the rules out the window on character speculation. If a character tops the charts and they're super boring, they probably still won't be added because they're always looking for diversity. Too often do I see people freaking out about how if a random character gets a good amount of votes, that character will get in. The other day somebody said Kratos from God of War. They have to have had a title on a Nintendo platform...so no. Kratos won't happen unless he suddenly is on a Nintendo platform. Same thing with Super Meat Boy.

On another topic, as much as people want say, Shovel Knight or Shantae, I just don't think Indie characters will happen. Again, Sakurai holds his 3rd Party choices to a high standard. We've got three video gaming legends in Sonic, Mega Man and Pac-Man. The next Third Party is...Shantae? That's a major leap. Obviously I'm biased towards Snake, but I could easily argue his and MGS's legacy in gaming.

Anyway, back to my original argument. While I firmly believe K.Rool is in, not every character is going to be picked simply because they are atop the ballot. There is no winner. This is a vote to see who people want as DLC and for future Smash titles. The standards we all know will still be in effect. Don't let the ballot hype cloud your judgment.
---

Now, based on what I've already said, I have a feeling we'll get something nice in regards to Smash Bros. at E3. That will be the next Nintendo Direct if I'm not mistaken. If Sakurai and the team have been working on further DLC already (which is a possibility, although I have no evidence to back that) we could see a newcomer at E3 to make hype just absolutely explode. Who do they reveal? I would say K.Rool, Inklings or Wolf. Wolf because he's a veteran, K.Rool because it would cause Crashboards to return from the grave, and Inklings just because I could totally see it happening.

Thoughts? (I always go on rants. Sheesh. Sorry)

Thank you for pointing out how stupid Shovel Knight and Shantae would be in comparison to Sonic, MegaMan, Pac-Man, or even Snake. Shovel Knight and Shantae have no legacy

 

[Rock & Roller Wabbit]

Yeah, puzzles are a pretty big part of her moveset.

I always like the idea of having the "block flipper" as a special. It would allow you to flip both projectiles and other characters.

She would also be a "sapper" characters due to her moves adding a flower effect.

I still don't think Lip Stick being an item affects her chances...granted, didn't think she had much of a chance before, but I don't think it completely ruins her.

People not yelling at me for my opinons? What is this?

 

[DustyPumpkin]

@ DustyPumpkin likes it iirc

Yes, hello I do quite enjoy Style Savvy, super excited for the new one~ <3

 

[Burruni]

You know who is high on my prediction list? Mirror B!.........Just kidding. He would be hilarious but....no.
Being serious, I don't think i's out of the question to get most of the veterans from Melee and Brawl. I say most because Snake and the Ice Climbers have some crap going on in their lives. I don't know if they can get their situations resolved. (Maybe the Ice Climbers could work if they were 8-bit?)

Snake has three big issues, 1) 3rd Party DLC not being likely in general. 2) Kojima and Konami currently being in a turbulent situation and 3) Kojima saying that he and Konami want/wanted Snake in Smash but were never approached by Nintendo to be in the game.

Ice Climbers being reduced to 8-bit has a "moderate" possibility to aide while sacrificing some of the purpose of them being updated as Smash characters in the first place. The main matter, I believe, is the taxing on the CPU of the 3DS version to handle all the Nana data being required at once and processing 8 characters running around with full movesets at the same time.

Ivy and Squirtle I believe don't really have the chance of coming back off of their base value and the fact that Pokemon already have one DLC character coming in. Then... we move to Melee. Young Link is entirely pointless as he was. Pichu was a joke that doesn't deserve coming back and then you have the issues Ivy and Squirtle face. Roy.... has so many issues, in terms of Fire Emblem, in regards to his role in Smash, and the fact that his name being occupied.

 

[That1Roy]

goku = ==

 

[HylianHeroBigBoss]

I'm all for wanting characters that appeal to someone as a fan, but please, let's be realistic when it comes to 3rd Parties.

Yes. Shantae, Layton...they have their connections with Nintendo. Their developers want them in Smash...but who WOULDN'T want their character in Smash? All of these companies coming out of the woodwork saying, "Vote my character!" is pretty much a given. But just because they support THEIR character means nothing. Everybody wants to be a part of Smash. So yes...Wayforward wanting Shantae, Layton's creator wanting Layton, Kojima wanting Snake is all normal. Fortunately, Kojima has the close connection (now Konami has Snake's veteran status).

So what I am going to say now, is that 3rd Parties will probably still have pretty high standards to get into Smash. Sonic, Mega Man and Pac-Man (even Snake) all attest to this. All of the characters that have made guest appearances in Smash Bros. have had a legacy in gaming. Now people want Indie characters in Smash. That's not even CLOSE to the guests we've had. What legacy does Shovel Knight have? Shantae? Minecraft Steve? Super Meat Boy? No. Just no.

If Professor Layton were a Nintendo character, I think he'd be a fantastic choice. Really, I do. It's the 3rd party situation that I believe kills him. (Also, I'd like to note that I barre no ill will toward people who want these characters. It's the people who think they have an amazing chance suddenly and that they're more deserving than other 3rd Parties)

Also, I noticed a conversation yesterday about Rayman. While I don't always agree with the validity of Wikipedia's data on Video Game Sales (and I hate talking about sales), Rayman is pretty high up compared to other series. There's a major drop for "Smash valid" 3rd Parties after Sonic, not even considering the sales. I haven't even checked when they were last updated, but I'm just mentioning this is available to look at. Interestingly enough, Metal Gear Solid has more overall sales than Mega Man, and Rayman is just short of Mega Man. If sales are so important to 3rd Parties, these guys could be next in line.

On a side note, I understand the people saying, "they have a relationship with Nintendo". I get that. But when I think 3rd Party characters in Smash, I think of Video Gaming characters that would make this game just absolutely amazing to play as. The thought of having a matchup of Mario vs. Sonic vs. Pac-Man vs. Mega Man vs. Solid Snake vs. Rayman is one of the greatest matchups ever. So many big name video game characters in one game. You could even throw Pikachu and Link in there to make it an All-Star Brawl between companies (yes, I understand Pikachu and Link aren't 3rd party). A big part of 3rd Parties that Sakurai has even mentioned, is that the charm of 3rd Parties is that they aren't Nintendo. The idea is that they aren't from the same company as Mario. That doesn't mean go out and get Kratos or Master Chief, but that conflicts with some arguing that they have to be highly related to Nintendo.

To continue on that, in regards to Snake, sure we can talk about Konami's current state with Nintendo. Konami used to be a big supporter. Now, not so much. But...isn't that a much hated...argument of recency? Think about the overall legacy of Konami, and what they've released on Nintendo consoles. Metal Gear (basically their flagship series) has appeared a few times. I don't see the issue with having Snake come back. Really, I don't get it. If you look at the overall LEGACY of a company rather than narrowing it down simply to exclude Snake from the running...yeah. I don't get it.

In my personal opinion, I think the 3rd Parties that have the best chances are Snake and Rayman. If Banjo gets in, that's great too. Banjo is something I could go on for in an entirely different rant...

DAMN IT. I WENT ON ANOTHER RANT. FORGIVE ME SMASH GODS!

Good to have someone lay it out once in a while, well said brother

 

[A Distant Demon]

Iike it or not rate their chances is back!

Dont worry im not a part of it so i cant possibly ruin it. Little salty i couldnt be a part of it but i shouldnt have expected it

Currently in nominations

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Iike it or not rate their chances is back!

Dont worry im not a part of it so i cant possibly ruin it. Little salty i couldnt be a part of it but i shouldnt have expected it

Currently in nominations

Brb nominating our favorite princess to infinity.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Ivy and Squirtle I believe don't really have the chance of coming back off of their base value and the fact that Pokemon already have one DLC character coming in. Then... we move to Melee. Young Link is entirely pointless as he was. Pichu was a joke that doesn't deserve coming back and then you have the issues Ivy and Squirtle face. Roy.... has so many issues, in terms of Fire Emblem, in regards to his role in Smash, and the fact that his name being occupied.

I'll admit that Young Link should wait for in-game switching to not be a problem in smash, but if enough people want them, Squirtle and Ivysaur are as likely as any. One question: WHY DOES EVERYONE HATE PICHU!!!!!!!! He is a freaking adorable electric mouse that would be de-cloned to make him more balanced for ssb4. What bugs me the most is that Pichu and Mewtwo were on the same boat in Melee, but when Brawl come out poor Pichu fell overboard. Pichu does not disserve the hate he gets. The fact that Roy O Koopa and Roy share the same name does not disconfirm him. Because two things can easily happen:
1: Roy and Rou O Koopa share the same voice clips. Less work on the people dealing with that stuff.
2: All of the Koopalings get their full name.
Now I'll admit, Roy's new appearance does add the question of how he is going to work, but this could also be the perfect opportunity to de-clone him.

 

[Burruni]

I'll admit that Young Link should wait for in-game switching to not be a problem in smash, but if enough people want them, Squirtle and Ivysaur are as likely as any. One question: WHY DOES EVERYONE HATE PICHU!!!!!!!! He is a freaking adorable electric mouse that would be de-cloned to make him more balanced for ssb4. What bugs me the most is that Pichu and Mewtwo were on the same boat in Melee, but when Brawl come out poor Pichu fell overboard. Pichu does not disserve the hate he gets. The fact that Roy O Koopa and Roy share the same name does not disconfirm him. Because two things can easily happen:
1: Roy and Rou O Koopa share the same voice clips. Less work on the people dealing with that stuff.
2: All of the Koopalings get their full name.
Now I'll admit, Roy's new appearance does add the question of how he is going to work, but this could also be the perfect opportunity to de-clone him.

Pichu's issue is that Sakurai SPECIFICALLY made Pichu to be bad, a joke character. Mewtwo ISN'T on the same boat. Mewtwo was planned back in 64 because he was such a heavy pull for Pokemon as basically a villain and an incredibly popular Pokemon. Mewtwo we know had incomplete data of programming for Brawl, unlike Pichu. Mewtwo has stayed popular and Gamefreak themselves, the people who hand pick the Pokemon showed off to Sakurai, gave Mewtwo and Charizard the special treatment of 2 Mega Evolutions (with Mewtwo being the debut of it and getting a film for this). You can have your support for the character, but don't say that he and Mewtwo were/are "on the same boat." And decloning... doesn't exactly make sense when he's the same species as Pikachu at a younger age (basically).

Let's... Let's talk about Roy. This is coming from a big Fire Emblem fan who has gone through all of the series except Tharacia 776. First off, when compared to the two returning Melee cuts, was planned as an alt and crammed into a playable slot near the winding stages of production. Got in from overwhelming support from Smash and Pokemon fans across the board. In a manner of speaking, he's the Ridley of Pokemon.


Roy, however, can not nearly be seen in comparison to Mewtwo despite them both had incomplete data in Brawl and were revived via Project M. As a protagonist he's one who is either considered average or plain bad with few supporters in terms of characters and actual stats by his home community.. As a Smash fighter, his flaming sword experience with a slower and harder hitting sword moveset was taken by and already has a resident clone that was put in last minute . His role and name have been taken with his home series not being stellar for him. And another issue is Roy doesn't have the star power in comparison to the big three representatives.
has two games in which he was the protagonist, the face of the series' beginning and the only games to be remade. His blood line have been made a MAJOR point for 13 and we see that same mark of the family present for the hoshido of IF.
is the protagonist of 9 and duo-protagonist of 10 with arguably the most polarizing protagonists of the series, the second time a character ever was a star for more than one game.
, representing the MyUnit customizable unit was first put in with 12 and made into a bigger role with 13 and now is going to be the sole helm for IF.

What do these three have in common? Major roles in multiple titles. Something quite rare for the series. Roy was he protagonist of 6 and had a two-line cameo was a 5 year old at the epilogue of 7 JUST TO MAKE SURE PEOPLE REALIZED IT'S A PREQUEL... TO THE GAME BEFORE IT.
He got new art in Awakening from it's DLC, yes. But so did Alm, Celica, Katrina, Micaiah, and even Ike did (and they didn't use it). He has to ride on his veteranism and little else in comparison to the overwhelming cry-out for who is the closest comparison Roy has. And... just to be another nail on this coffin, did Roy even recieve a trophy in Brawl, 3DS, or WiiU?

I'm a cynic, but I have some serious points that contribute to WHY I feel so doubtful.

 

[A10theHero]

I'll admit that Young Link should wait for in-game switching to not be a problem in smash, but if enough people want them, Squirtle and Ivysaur are as likely as any. One question: WHY DOES EVERYONE HATE PICHU!!!!!!!! He is a freaking adorable electric mouse that would be de-cloned to make him more balanced for ssb4. What bugs me the most is that Pichu and Mewtwo were on the same boat in Melee, but when Brawl come out poor Pichu fell overboard. Pichu does not disserve the hate he gets. The fact that Roy O Koopa and Roy share the same name does not disconfirm him. Because two things can easily happen:
1: Roy and Rou O Koopa share the same voice clips. Less work on the people dealing with that stuff.
2: All of the Koopalings get their full name.
Now I'll admit, Roy's new appearance does add the question of how he is going to work, but this could also be the perfect opportunity to de-clone him.

I think people dislike Pichu because he was a clone of Pikachu with electrical attacks that could hurt himself. While playing as him, you couldn't really use those attacks for long since he launches early anyways, being so light.
And I don't think we can really deconfirm (or confirm, for that matter) anyone at this point except the obvious characters who don't meet the requirements like Goku or Shrek (note that although I'm saying this, that doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss the likelihood; these past 1771 pages of posts weren't completely pointless). I'm even hesitant to say Wolf is definitely joining the roster, though his chances still are pretty high. (Also, a question: Does the fact that Fox possesses a palette swap that resembles Wolf affect his chances of getting in?)

 

[Burruni]

I think people dislike Pichu because he was a clone of Pikachu with electrical attacks that could hurt himself. While playing as him, you couldn't really use those attacks for long since he launches early anyways, being so light.
And I don't think we can really deconfirm (or confirm, for that matter) anyone at this point except the obvious characters who don't meet the requirements like Goku or Shrek (note that although I'm saying this, that doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss the likelihood; these past 1771 pages of posts weren't completely pointless). I'm even hesitant to say Wolf is definitely joining the roster, though his chances still are pretty high. (Also, a question: Does the fact that Fox possesses a palette swap that resembles Wolf affect his chances of getting in?)

Fox's pallette swap of him matters absolutely nothing. Pit has a Dark Pit coloured outfit and didn't affect Pittoo from behind RUSHED into a character slot. People could argue that the pallette that resembles Wolf and the "wolf flash" and such specials between fox and falco to mean his doom.... and you see how much that near-identical situation stopped Lucas from returning as dlc. From E3 2013, people have lumped Lucas and Wolf together because they have and continue to be in very similar situations. It's the general consensus of "when" not 'if" for Wolf because there is basically no reason for him to not return now that Lucas has made his big reveal.

 

[A10theHero]

Fox's pallette swap of him matters absolutely nothing. Pit has a Dark Pit coloured outfit and didn't affect Pittoo from behind RUSHED into a character slot. People could argue that the pallette that resembles Wolf and the "wolf flash" and such specials between fox and falco to mean his doom.... and you see how much that near-identical situation stopped Lucas from returning as dlc. From E3 2013, people have lumped Lucas and Wolf together because they have and continue to be in very similar situations. It's the general consensus of "when" not 'if" for Wolf because there is basically no reason for him to not return now that Lucas has made his big reveal.

Okay, yeah. That makes sense. Thanks! And I was just thinking about it now, and didn't Mario have Wario's color scheme for an alternate outfit in Melee too? So I guess it doesn't really matter.
If Wolf gets in though, I wish they'd do something about his final smash. I disliked the fact that Fox, Falco, and Wolf all had basically the same Final Smash in Brawl.
This kinda extends to my opinion about the characters we're voting for too. I want characters who can bring something new and unique to the game. Over-representation, being a swordfighter, etc. don't really matter to me. This is also one of the reasons why I don't want Roy to return.

 

[Burruni]

Okay, yeah. That makes sense. Thanks! And I was just thinking about it now, and didn't Mario have Wario's color scheme for an alternate outfit in Melee too? So I guess it doesn't really matter.
If Wolf gets in though, I wish they'd do something about his final smash. I disliked the fact that Fox, Falco, and Wolf all had basically the same Final Smash in Brawl.
This kinda extends to my opinion about the characters we're voting for too. I want characters who can bring something new and unique to the game. Over-representation, being a swordfighter, etc. don't really matter to me. This is also one of the reasons why I don't want Roy to return.

Thus why my big 2 newcomers are Bandana Dee who has a spear, the closest thing to which on the entire roster of 50+ characters is a friggin fencing Rapier. and Inklings which seem too versatile to not have some real fun additions to the roster. King K. Rool also has a lot of potential with all the tools he has used for a projectile-heavy heavyweight to be in place which is why he's in my number 3 for want with Isaac in 4th, Shantae 5th.

 

[Arcadenik]

Well~ Here i am, I came here to tell ask you guys to try and help me with my list. This list is the characters I want in smash! The ones i haven't included i probably forgot about, tell me them in replies.

Confirmed
Mewtwo
Lucas

S
Meowth
Shantae
Waluigi

A
Isaac
Any Bravely Default Characters
Zero
King K

A-
Krystal

B+
Waddle Dee
Roy

B
Impa
Toad
Daisy

B-
Sceptile
Pokemon Trainer

C+
Inkling
Sora


C
Any Rhythm Heaven Character

C-
Paper Mario

D+
Ice Climbers
Mach Rider
Black Mage
Snake

D
Andy
Chibi-Robo

D-
Bayonetta
Pichu
Black Shadow
Claus

E
Additional characters from Sega, Namco, or Capcom
Geno
Rundas
Vaati
Magolor

F (Already in the game in non-playable form)
Ghirahim
Skull Kid
Wolf Link & Midna
Blaziken
Zoroark
Chrom
Lyn
Viridi
Takamaru
Young Link

G (Come on, people...)
Goku
Shrek
Naruto

#VoteMeowth #Meowth4Smash #Meowth

I love that you put Meowth in the S tier. He really should be up there.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

I agree that Shantae would be a weird addition to the Smash series. People who don't even play video games know about Pac-Man and Sonic. Megaman has become less popular nowadays because his series is dead for the time being but he was another household name back in the early to mid 90s. Some people who play Nintendo games haven't even heard of Shantae. I think Rayman for Ubisoft and Snake or Bomberman for Konami would be much better choices. Eliminate them and Shantae still has to compete against characters like Black Mage from Square. I don't want to personally hurt the people who support Shantae, I just think adding her or other Indie characters would ruin the whole "you have to be a very iconic" thing.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Thus why my big 2 newcomers are Bandana Dee who has a spear, the closest thing to which on the entire roster of 50+ characters is a friggin fencing Rapier. and Inklings which seem too versatile to not have some real fun additions to the roster. King K. Rool also has a lot of potential with all the tools he has used for a projectile-heavy heavyweight to be in place which is why he's in my number 3 for want with Isaac in 4th, Shantae 5th.

We could use a heavyweight villain as a DLC character. Maybe even one that uses a lot of interesting projectiles.

I also agree that a spear uses would be incredibly unique.

I just have to wonder if there is perhaps a character that could check off both of those boxes? Hmmmm......

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I would argue Shantae does have a legacy and a history with Nintendo. She's just obviously not as popular as other characters like Sonic or Megaman.

I'm not sure it matters much to the every day man who gets added now. They more than likely won't have a clue even if we think we're adding "well known" characters. These are the same people who think Link is called Zelda.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Spears you said?

Yes give me Impa based on this concept please. Why worry about what style she uses if she can potentially use both styles? A fire infused naginata combined with a water infused giant blade which she can summon for usage at free will while also using kicking attacks.

Best choice for Zelda possible. Don't delude yourself.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Now that I think about it we really don't have any allstars left. Dixie, K.Rool, Ridley...Those are the only three that could be considered all starts currently

 

[Wintropy]

I never really got the "all-star" concept. It's kinda arbitrary as to who counts as an "all-star" and who doesn't.

 

[Diddy Kong]

All Stars left in my opinion:

King K.Rool, Dixie Kong, Toad, Impa, Bandana Dee, Cranky Kong, maybe Ridley indeed but he won't get in anyway lol

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I don't really see Bandana Dee, Impa or Cranky Kong as All Stars.

I think there was a time when the "All Stars" waiting to get into Smash Bros were blatantly obvious....but I think it's a bit more subjective now since we already have a lot of the most popular choices as part of the roster.

 

[DustyPumpkin]

Spears you said?

Yes give me Impa based on this concept please. Why worry about what style she uses if she can potentially use both styles? A fire infused naginata combined with a water infused giant blade which she can summon for usage at free will while also using kicking attacks.

Best choice for Zelda possible. Don't delude yourself.

That is a NAGINATA you uncultured Swine!

Now that I think about it we really don't have any allstars left. Dixie, K.Rool, Ridley...Those are the only three that could be considered all starts currently

Ridley
K.Rool
Dixie Kong
Issac
Rhythm Heaven

I think all of them definitely count as All-Stars that need a playable position

 

[Diddy Kong]

That is a NAGINATA you uncultured Swine!

Now that it has got your attention, vote for Impa

 

[DustyPumpkin]

Now that it has got your attention, vote for Impa

I'll give Impa a vote if you give Ridley a vote

 

[Wintropy]

Thing is, even in the earlier games, there are a lot of debatable outliers from the whole "all-star" schematic. Some characters happened to be in the right place at the right time (Captain Falcon and Ness), others were promoted due to fitting into the basic skeleton of another character (Jigglypuff, all of the Melee clones bar possibly Falco and Ganondorf).

Is that to say that these characters aren't worthy of appearing in Smash? Absolutely not. Every character has their reason for appearing. But I can't bring myself to agree that it's always been a case of "all-stars were obvious back in the day". Even big-name characters like Diddy, Wario, Charizard and Dedede didn't make it in until Brawl - and again, your perspective on how "big-name" these characters are is wholly subjective.

Then there are characters in the roster that get flak for not being "relevant" enough (R.O.B., Duck Hunt) or for being "new kids" (Palutena, Little Mac, Shulk, Robin) - even though half of those characters have been around since the 80s, and the latter two are from very well-received games.

Point is, the definition of what constitutes an "all-star" varies from person to person. It's very easy to say Smash is a game for Nintendo "all-stars", but the definition of such a term is also very easy to manipulate and alter depending on the particular context of the specific game.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'll give Impa a vote if you give Ridley a vote

Ok.

It's in Dutch but I think you'll understand it anyway.

Also, am not named Chad nor 28 years old.

 

[Frostwraith]

Thing is, even in the earlier games, there are a lot of debatable outliers from the whole "all-star" schematic. Some characters happened to be in the right place at the right time (Captain Falcon and Ness), others were promoted due to fitting into the basic skeleton of another character (Jigglypuff, all of the Melee clones bar possibly Falco and Ganondorf).

Ganondorf DID get in Melee for having a model with a bone structure identical to Falcon.

He wasn't planned to be in the game at all and only got in due to popularity and ease of addition.

Is that to say that these characters aren't worthy of appearing in Smash? Absolutely not. Every character has their reason for appearing. But I can't bring myself to agree that it's always been a case of "all-stars were obvious back in the day". Even big-name characters like Diddy, Wario, Charizard and Dedede didn't make it in until Brawl - and again, your perspective on how "big-name" these characters are is wholly subjective.

Then there are characters in the roster that get flak for not being "relevant" enough (R.O.B., Duck Hunt) or for being "new kids" (Palutena, Little Mac, Shulk, Robin) - even though half of those characters have been around since the 80s, and the latter two are from very well-received games.

Point is, the definition of what constitutes an "all-star" varies from person to person. It's very easy to say Smash is a game for Nintendo "all-stars", but the definition of such a term is also very easy to manipulate and alter depending on the particular context of the specific game.

People use vague and subjective terms to justify their own biases.

That isn't news.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Ok.

View attachment 47094

It's in Dutch but I think you'll understand it anyway.

Also, am not named Chad nor 28 years old.

Verfilm het, anders ben je een oplichter >:D

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Verfilm het, anders ben je een oplichter >:D

Goed aas maat.

Not Dutch talk:

I think Captain Toad could be a "playground character" like Pac-Man.
He could use tools like a minecart-track, mushroom trampolines and flying platforms to get around easily and attack people with things like his backpack and diamonds.

 

[Wintropy]

Ganondorf DID get in Melee for having a model with a bone structure identical to Falcon.

He wasn't planned to be in the game at all and only got in due to popularity and ease of addition.

Yes, I know. You're misinterpreting the point.

My point is that Falco and Ganondorf may possibly be justified as "all-stars", even if they are still clones.

People use vague and subjective terms to justify their own biases.

That isn't news.

Thanks for letting me know.

Good to know my message was not in vain. :3

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Goed aas maat.

Not Dutch talk:

I think Captain Toad could be a "playground character" like Pac-Man.
He could use tools like a minecart-track, mushroom trampolines and flying platforms to get around easily and attack people with things like his backpack and diamonds.

gr8 b8 m8
As much as I hate Toads, that's something I wouldn't mind seeing

 

[Curious Villager]

I'm getting a little tired of the whole "All-Star" and "Legendary" shtick myself these days actually.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Verfilm het, anders ben je een oplichter >:D

 

[Frostwraith]

Yes, I know. You're misinterpreting the point.

My point is that Falco and Ganondorf may possibly be justified as "all-stars", even if they are still clones.

Well, they were the only clones to return from Melee in Brawl and with major changes to their movesets, even if still using Fox and Falcon as a basis.

And of course, there's Toon Link, who pretty much replaced Young Link since Brawl and can be considered a spiritual successor.