Character Discussion Thread

[CrusherMania1592]

I'd switch some words to this to make it a more accurate statement.

He's along the lines with Harry the Teleroboxer being scrappers of the barrel, them being US only characters already makes them really unlikely as Mike Jones IMO.

Mike Jones is a classic man. Ya ever played StarTropics? No? Okay...you're gonna get some bananas in yo ear

 

[FalKoopa]

If we are looking for more historical characters, I'd say that the characters which are Assist Trophies already have a better chance - Sablé Prince, Takamaru, Excitebikers and such.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Throwing in characters just for the sake of throwing in characters is not good design.

Also, reminder that "retro" characters were never a thing. The only thing Sakurai ever said was that he wanted to bring back dead franchises in the hopes that they would be revived. Ice Climbers failed, Pit succeeded only because Sakurai took it into his own hands, Duck Hunt is still waiting for someone to pick it up, but it could very well just be another Ice Climbers situation.

Mr. Game & Watch was added because he has his own line of handhelds. Sure he's old, but that didn't get him in. G&W and R.O.B. are hardware "reps" if anything. Plus that whole saving video games thing for Mr. Famicom Robot.

The term retro only came about from people trying to justify "muh roster slots being taken by these nobodies."

 

[Arcadenik]

Throwing in characters just for the sake of throwing in characters is not good design.

Also, reminder that "retro" characters were never a thing. The only thing Sakurai ever said was that he wanted to bring back dead franchises in the hopes that they would be revived. Ice Climbers failed, Pit succeeded only because Sakurai took it into his own hands, Duck Hunt is still waiting for someone to pick it up, but it could very well just be another Ice Climbers situation.

Mr. Game & Watch was added because he has his own line of handhelds. Sure he's old, but that didn't get him in. G&W and R.O.B. are hardware "reps" if anything. Plus that whole saving video games thing for Mr. Famicom Robot.

The term retro only came about from people trying to justify "muh roster slots being taken by these nobodies."

Good thing Sakurai did not make a new Ice Climber game or we would be complaining about Ice Climber bias.

EDIT: Oh, and don't forget that Duck Hunt is also a hardware "rep" because of this...

...and because it sold millions 30 years ago.

 

[FalKoopa]

Hey, where does this art even come from? I'm having a hard time tracking that down as a genuine official representation of Jumpman/Mr. Video.

It was a promotional flyer for Donkey Kong.

...and because it sold millions 30 years ago.

Well, it was a pack-in game. (Not that I'm complaining.)

 

[BluePikmin11]

Also, reminder that "retro" characters were never a thing. The only thing Sakurai ever said was that he wanted to bring back dead franchises in the hopes that they would be revived. Ice Climbers failed, Pit succeeded only because Sakurai took it into his own hands, Duck Hunt is still waiting for someone to pick it up, but it could very well just be another Ice Climbers situation.

Mr. Game & Watch was added because he has his own line of handhelds. Sure he's old, but that didn't get him in. G&W and R.O.B. are hardware "reps" if anything. Plus that whole saving video games thing for Mr. Famicom Robot.

The term retro only came about from people trying to justify "muh roster slots being taken by these nobodies."

We have to name those kinds of characters something specific at the very least, that's why the term retro came to be.

I daresay adding Jumpman would incite more hatred and rage among the Smash fanbase than Dark Pit did. That's how deeply embedded he is in the bottom of the barrel.

You should've at least worded it better. I don't think you used the barrel phrase correctly.

Mike Jones is a classic man. Ya ever played StarTropics? No? Okay...you're gonna get some bananas in yo ear

Believe me, I have already watched and played Startropics, I even have the Dungeon theme on my iTunes, yet I still think his chances are very minimal because there is hardly any representation for games which came out exclusively in the U.S.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Good thing Sakurai did not make a new Ice Climber game or we would be complaining about Ice Climber bias.

Nah, we'd have 100% gotten the Ice Climbers in this game. Sakurai wouldn't let hardware limitations keep his babies out.


Oh, and PolarBeartena.

It was a promotional flyer for Donkey Kong.

This only shows how ridiculous the notion of trying to justify "Jumpman" as his own character is. Jumpman is Mario, he only got a redesign. Just like DK. Look at Pauline, she clearly doesn't look like that anymore.

We have to name those kinds of characters something specific at the very least, that's why the term retro came to be.

Yeah, I've got a great term to call them.

Wanna hear it?



Wait for it...





"Characters."

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Believe me, I have already watched and played Startropics, I even have the Dungeon theme on my iTunes, yet I still think his chances are very minimal because there is hardly any representation for games which came out exclusively in the U.S.

Mike Jones's U.S.A exclusive status wouldn't be a problem if people actually showed support for him. Think Little Mac.

As a supporter myself, he has a very small fan base due to Nintendo treating StarTropics as a non-expandable franchise.

But the music is freaking great, Dr. Jones/Uncle Steve is my personal favorite.

 

[A Distant Demon]

I didnt know he was US only. huh

Yeah that would definitely hurt his chances wouldn't it. I don't see him ever making it in then without a sequel or at least a remake then.

Still more likely than mario but not mario even though it's mario

 

[Argos]

Mike Jones's U.S.A exclusive status wouldn't be a problem if people actually showed support for him. Think Little Mac. As a supporter myself, he has a very small fan base due to Nintendo treating StarTropics as a non-expandable franchise. But the music is freaking great, Dr. Jones is my personal favorite.

I was surprised at how attentive towards Western tastes Smash 4 was, honestly. I was hoping for Duck Hunt, but thought it was a lost cause mostly because the game isn't nearly as iconic in Japan due to not being bundled with Super Mario Bros and the NES for a while. Don't think this means Startropics is any more likely, unfortunately, because it doesn't have nearly the same kind of iconic nature (Duck Hunt) or amount of fan clamoring (Little Mac) to overcome not just being obscure in Japan, but essentially not existing there.

 

[RoseyBetch]

The next "hardware character" will be Glover for the Power Glove

 

[False Sense]

Out of curiosity, I looked up the trophies for Mario in each Smash game, as trophies frequently list what game they debuted in.

Look what it says for Mario:

Spoiler

While I couldn't find an image, I can also confirm that the Wii U trophy of Mario also lists Donkey Kong as his debut game. What's more, these trophies reference his original appearance as "Jumpman" in the game.

Frankly, Jumpman is Mario.

 

[FalKoopa]

You don't even need the trophy. Pac-Man's trailer flat out states it.

 

[Arcadenik]

I want to support Princess Toadstool! She would be totally different and unique from Peach! My proof?

See?! Red hair! Different dress! No gloves! No jewels on crown!

 

[BKupa666]

Toadstool could use Mushroom Retainers (not Toads, see, different names!) and power-ups. . .and blocks. . .and pipes. . .and things. . .she also represents the fourth best-selling game of all time. Let's add her.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I rather still keeping the "retro" term.
Instead of calling it criteria, how about I say instead that Sakurai views and judges old Nintendo characters differently. Happy, no need to remind me that criteria is non-existent anymore.

Out of curiosity, I looked up the trophies for Mario in each Smash game, as trophies frequently list what game they debuted in.

Look what it says for Mario:

Spoiler

While I couldn't find an image, I can also confirm that the Wii U trophy of Mario also lists Donkey Kong as his debut game. What's more, these trophies reference his original appearance as "Jumpman" in the game.

Frankly, Jumpman is Mario.

I'm aware, but again it doesn't mean that Jumpman being his own character is completely out of the radar.
If we can have a different art-style version of Link in the roster, then it's a possibility can have Jumpman and Mario in the roster too.

I want to support Princess Toadstool! She would be totally different and unique from Peach! My proof?

See?! Red hair! Different dress! No gloves! No jewels on crown!

Toadstool could use Mushroom Retainers (not Toads, see, different names!) and power-ups. . .and blocks. . .and pipes. . .and things. . .she also represents the fourth best-selling game of all time. Let's add her.

Thanks for ticking my patience bomb.
You guys really want more arguing from me do you?
I'm not letting this argument end with the usual short joke post anymore, thanks.

 

[FalKoopa]

Thanks for ticking my patience bomb.
You guys really want more arguing from me do you?
I'm not letting this argument end with the usual short joke post anymore, thanks.

Well, if we fail to convince you we'll simply drop it and move on. It's not like we have to.

 

[JamesDNaux]

[collapse=]Super Mario Smashers, featuring:

• Mario
• Jumpman
• NES Mario
• Fire Mario
• Super Mario
• Tanooki Mario
• Cape Mario
• Mario riding Yoshi
• Baby Mario riding Yoshi
• Baby Mario by himself
• Baby Mario and Baby Luigi
• Mario and Luigi
• Mario in a Kart
• Baby Mario in a Kart
• Metal Mario in a Kart
• Metal Mario
• Paper Mario
• Dr. Mario
• Dr. Metal Mario
• Green Mario
• That guy from Doki Doki Panic
• Referee Mario
• Golf Mario
• Tennis Mario
• Striker Mario
• Baseball Mario
• Mario in his Melee outfit
• Mario with FLUDD
• Galaxy Mario
• Galaxy Mario 2
• RPG Mario
• Still no Geno
• Mario Paint (the actual game as a fighter)
• CDi Mario
• That one painting of Mario in Ocarina of Time
• Mario Mario (from the movie)
• Anime Mario
• Cartoon Mario
• Link wearing a Mario mask
• Wario
• Bad Mario
• Yoshi wearing a Mario cap from 64 DS
• Olimario
• Mario is Missing
• Allan Ice Mario
• Kong Donkey

[/collapse]

I rather still keeping the "retro" term.
Instead of calling it criteria, how about I say instead that Sakurai views and judges old Nintendo characters differently. Happy, no need to remind me that criteria is non-existent anymore.

Unless you're Sakurai, then no, you can't say what Sakurai views.

i.e. baseless conjecture.

By all means, don't let us form your opinions for you. Nothing more than some friendly advice is all.

 

[Arcadenik]

All this Donkey Kong arcade talk is making me consider buying Mario vs. Donkey Kong: Tipping Stars. I haven't played a Mario vs. Donkey Kong game since the original GBA game... it looks pretty interesting and fun.

 

[False Sense]

Thanks for ticking my patience bomb.
You guys really want more arguing from me do you?
I'm not letting this argument end with the usual short joke post anymore, thanks.

Actually, I'm genuinely curious; what exactly differentiates Jumpman from Toadstool? Obviously, Arcadenik was being facetious when he brought her up, but they are comparable: both are just older designs/names for characters already playable that could represent incredibly important, individual titles from Nintendo's early days, and could theoretically have movesets based on those titles that differentiate them from their pre-existing counterparts.

So how are they different, exactly?

 

[JaidynReiman]

Actually, I'm genuinely curious; what exactly differentiates Jumpman from Toadstool? Obviously, Arcadenik was being facetious when he brought her up, but they are comparable: both are just older designs/names for characters already playable that could represent incredibly important, individual titles from Nintendo's early days, and could theoretically have movesets based on those titles that differentiate them from their pre-existing counterparts.

So how are they different, exactly?

The main difference is that Princess Toadstool was, as I recall, Princess Peach's western name. As I recall, she always had the name Peach in Japan, it was just finally used outside of Japan in Super Mario 64 and stuck around since.


Jumpman, on the other hand, was Mario before he even had a name. The focus on Donkey Kong was on DK himself, with the protagonist trying to save Pauline from Donkey Kong. Since in the case of Jumpman, it wasn't so important to focus on who you were playing as since, essentially, he was supposed to represent you, the player. Donkey Kong was the bigger focus, and the game is even named "Donkey Kong."

They basically took the original idea behind Jumpman, gave him a name--Mario--and spun him off into his own franchise. Prior to that, though, "Jumpman" wasn't really too important, because he merely represented the player.


There is a slight difference to the naming conventions, but other than that its basically the same argument.

 

[Strofirko]

Once upon a time I played a mugen where I had regular mario and mario 64:
regular mario did all the stuff from the smash bros on bad 2d sprite .
the mario from 64 summoned NPCs/enemies from said game as most of its moves.
I liked the latter better.
I didnt need to bring this up but I did.

 

[BluePikmin11]

All this Donkey Kong arcade talk is making me consider buying Mario vs. Donkey Kong: Tipping Stars. I haven't played a Mario vs. Donkey Kong game since the original GBA game... it looks pretty interesting and fun.

I played Mini-Land Mayhem on DS and the game is pretty addicting with it's puzzles.
Tipping Stars will likely give you the same experience I had.

Actually, I'm genuinely curious; what exactly differentiates Jumpman from Toadstool? Obviously, Arcadenik was being facetious when he brought her up, but they are comparable: both are just older designs/names for characters already playable that could represent incredibly important, individual titles from Nintendo's early days, and could theoretically have movesets based on those titles that differentiate them from their pre-existing counterparts.

So how are they different, exactly?

The difference is that Super Mario is already represented pretty majorly through Mario's moveset (The iconic Fireball Super Jump Punch, F.L.U.D.D., and Cape, all originating from the Super Mario games), making the idea of Princess Toadstool relatively redundant.

Plus, Toadstool is neither a protagonist, important side-character, nor an antagonist in the game she would be representing to be considered a representative for Super Mario and to be considered for character consideration, which is something Sakurai talked about in one of his interviews.

There is no character currently who mainly uses Classic DK elements as part of their moveset, and it's something Jumpman can fill in as a character. That's the difference.

 

[Arcadenik]

There is a slight difference to the naming conventions, but other than that its basically the same argument.

Ah, ah, ah... this slight difference is all we need to make Jumpman a character.

 

[JamesDNaux]

The difference is that Super Mario is already represented pretty majorly through Mario's moveset (The iconic Fireball Super Jump Punch, F.L.U.D.D., and Cape, all originating from the Super Mario games), making the idea of Princess Toadstool relatively redundant.

There is no character currently who mainly uses Classic DK elements as part of their moveset, and it's something Jumpman can fill in as a character. That's the difference.

If four special moves are enough to "represent" an entire franchise then I'm pretty sure Mario already represents the entire game of Donkey Kong simply by jumping.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Not really, to be a little nitpicky, you know he pretty much jumps in the same fashion as he does Super Mario Bros., not the same with Jumpman Mario. Even then, jumping isn't the only thing he does in Donkey Kong there's more to it than what Jumpman's name says. There's some things still has to use hammers to destroy barrels thrown by DK, collect Pauline's belongings, dodge barrels, classic DK elements that can be used in Jumpman's moveset to represent Classic DK relatively well.

Well, we already have several of those aspects represented.

So, are we just missing the barrels, then?

Not in a moveset as of now False, which would make him stand-out.

 

[Arcadenik]

Yuck. I'd rather have Pauline over Jumpman. At least she is not a different version of Mario.. She could summon Mini Mario toys to do the stuff you want Jumpman to do...

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Why is this even a conversation?

It's not going to happen, even if it did it would be after 3 other iterations of Mario were implemented.

Jumpman would maybe be a plausible character for Smash Bros 7 or 8, doubt it but who knows? I don't see why this conversation has picked up as much speed as it has.

Well, I guess we are thirsty for anything Smash Bros. So whatevs I guess

 

[False Sense]

Not really, to be a little nitpicky, you know he pretty much jumps in the same fashion as he does Super Mario Bros., not the same with Jumpman Mario. Even then, jumping isn't the only thing he does in Donkey Kong there's more to it than what Jumpman's name says. There's some things still has to use hammers to destroy barrels thrown by DK, collect Pauline's belongings, dodge barrels, classic DK elements that can be used in Jumpman's moveset to represent Classic DK relatively well.

Well, we already have several of those aspects represented.

So, are we just missing the barrels, then?

 

[Arcadenik]

Well, we already have several of those aspects represented.

So, are we just missing the barrels, then?

We have them too.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Meanwhile, I think I've found the most obscure character for any Smash Bros. game.

Spoiler

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

We need Wario Land Wario playable! There are no references to the Wario Land games in Smash Bros 3DS/Wii U, I mean that's classic Wario we're talking about and there is so much a character can pull from from those games. Captain Syrup doesn't seem like the best and strongest representative to represent classic Wario though. Wario Land Wario would wear different clothes from Wario Ware Wario and can be larger in size than Wario Ware Wario since Wario Land Wario is quite larger in size than Mario, unlike Wario Ware Wario. Wario Land Wario is just a more iconic version of the character, Wario Land was the first and only Nintendo game/series that stars the bad guy; that's very significant.

I'll just bring this up again.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Guys, forget Jumpman, we should support the DK series icon!

 

[BKupa666]

I'll just bring this up again.

Have heard the idea before, and am not a fan, since it validates Wario's current moveset ignoring half of his history. Fix that moveset to feature the sorts of moves a Wario Land Wario would have alongside his current ones, and let an original second character show up if he/she becomes major/supported enough.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Whether it was a joke or not, Wario Land isn't a very significant franchise nor did it have a big of an impact as the original DK to fill in for a playable character.
I don't think you understand what significant actually is.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Have heard the idea before, and am not a fan, since it validates Wario's current moveset ignoring half of his history. Fix that moveset to feature the sorts of moves a Wario Land Wario would have alongside his current ones, and let an original second character show up if he/she becomes major/supported enough.

It's not a legitimate idea, I'm just using it to point out how stupid of an idea Jumpman is. Project M Wario would be nice.

Whether it was a joke or not, Wario Land isn't a very significant franchise nor did it have a big of an impact as the original DK to fill in for a playable character.
I don't think you understand what significant actually is.

If something is significant it means it's worthy of attention, which is subjective. I do think the arcade DK games are worthy of attention, but it already does have attention. I also gave you the idea of 4 custom moves for Mario based on the arcade Donkey Kong game.

 

[Wintropy]

Okay, so, from what I gather, Jumpman would fight with hammers, oil drums, barrels, fireballs, ladders and scaffolding.

Yep, totally things that no other character could do.

Spoiler

I actually like the idea of Jumpman in Smash.

Just not as a separate character - but if he was a costume, then yeah, I'd sure as hell play as Tex Avery's Snidely Mariolash.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Whether it was a joke or not, Wario Land isn't a very significant franchise nor did it have a big of an impact as the original DK to fill in for a playable character.
I don't think you understand what significant actually is.

Woah now....

Wario Land may not be the next Donkey Kong here, but calling it insignificant is laughable Blue.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Holy **** Jumpman seriously? Don't we have enough Marios on the roster?

It'd be cute as a Mario costume. But that's it. The arcade is overrepped as it is. I already have to deal with **** as counting as "Donkey Kong content" and lame ass items as Springers are now the only Donkey Kong items in the game! Melee at least had Barrel Cannons aka 2L84ME. 2L84ME was a great item... Even though it disapears like, 20 x faster than other times for some damn reason.

I want Barrel Cannons back btw.

And I don't want no ****ing Pauline, Jumpman, DK Jr. in his original form or Stanley the Bugman counting as a Donkey Kong character. Not before we have King K.Rool and another Kong hailing from DKC is playable first. Dixie, Cranky, both, Rambi even, I wouldn't care, just not them.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Woah now....

Wario Land may not be the next Donkey Kong here, but calling it insignificant is laughable Blue.

Didn't say it was insignificant, I said that Wario Land isn't as significant as the DK arcade game to warrant a character spot.

Holy **** Jumpman seriously? Don't we have enough Marios on the roster?

It'd be cute as a Mario costume. But that's it. The arcade is overrepped as it is. I already have to deal with **** as counting as "Donkey Kong content" and lame *** items as Springers are now the only Donkey Kong items in the game! Melee at least had Barrel Cannons aka 2L84ME. 2L84ME was a great item... Even though it disapears like, 20 x faster than other times for some damn reason.

I want Barrel Cannons back btw.

And I don't want no ****ing Pauline, Jumpman, DK Jr. in his original form or Stanley the Bugman counting as a Donkey Kong character. Not before we have King K.Rool and another Kong hailing from DKC is playable first. Dixie, Cranky, both, Rambi even, I wouldn't care, just not them.

I'm not forcing you to support him.