Character Discussion Thread

[Joe D.]

Yeah, I wouldn't mind if Little Mac becomes our "retro". It makes sense (after all, he seemed to be quite unknown and obscure in the West).

True, and I really believe that Pac-Man is also a retro rep.

 

[Niala]

Do NOT Want: Dark Pit and Dr. Mario

Ah, the classic "I-don't-really-want-more-clones."

Also read, "I-want-Morbid-Altruism-to-be-wrong list."

 

[TumblrFamous]

Ah, the classic "I-don't-really-want-more-clones."

Also read, "I-want-Morbid-Altruism-to-be-wrong list."

Actually, I'm all for clones. I just don't necessarily want those two.

 

[Morbi]

The list; it continues to flourish, it continues to thrive... it resumes perpetuating the hatred of Dark Pit.

Anyways; if you are on this list, but you find Dark Pit to be a likely candidate (despite not wanting him), please post a message on my profile or something to that effect as I want to compile a list of names to message gloat over after Dark Pit's beautiful and immaculate reveal (or be aware of those who I have wronged as to avoid future contact ).

Spoiler

@ MasterOfKnees
@TitanTeaTime
@ False Sense
@KenithTheGatherer
@ SegaNintendoUbisoft
@Pizzanigs
@wizardto1
@Rockaphin
@ ihskeyp
@GunGunW
@ TumblrFamous
@ TumblrFamous

I listed "you-know-who" twice on purpose.

 

[Joe D.]

The list; it continues to flourish, it continues to thrive... it resumes perpetuating the hatred of Dark Pit.

Anyways; if you are on this list, but you find Dark Pit to be a likely candidate (despite not wanting him), please post a message on my profile or something to that effect as I want to compile a list of names to message gloat over after Dark Pit's beautiful and immaculate reveal (or be aware of those who I have wronged as to avoid future contact ).

Spoiler

@ MasterOfKnees
@TitanTeaTime
@ False Sense
@KenithTheGatherer
@ SegaNintendoUbisoft
@Pizzanigs
@wizardto1
@Rockaphin
@ ihskeyp
@GunGunW
@ TumblrFamous
@ TumblrFamous

I listed "you-know-who" twice on purpose.

You seem very sure that he will be in. Care to explain why? I'm neutral to Dark Pit myself, but I don't think he'd be anything more than an alt.

You have the floor.

 

[RouffWestie]

 

[False Sense]

The list; it continues to flourish, it continues to thrive... it resumes perpetuating the hatred of Dark Pit.

Anyways; if you are on this list, but you find Dark Pit to be a likely candidate (despite not wanting him), please post a message on my profile or something to that effect as I want to compile a list of names to message gloat over after Dark Pit's beautiful and immaculate reveal (or be aware of those who I have wronged as to avoid future contact ).

Spoiler

@ MasterOfKnees
@TitanTeaTime
@ False Sense
@KenithTheGatherer
@ SegaNintendoUbisoft
@Pizzanigs
@wizardto1
@Rockaphin
@ ihskeyp
@GunGunW
@ TumblrFamous
@ TumblrFamous

I listed "you-know-who" twice on purpose.

You're compiling a hate list?

 

[Niala]

Actually, I'm all for clones. I just don't necessarily want those two.

Oh, fair enough then.

My second assertion must have been correct, then. 8)

The list; it continues to flourish, it continues to thrive... it resumes perpetuating the hatred of Dark Pit.

Anyways; if you are on this list, but you find Dark Pit to be a likely candidate (despite not wanting him), please post a message on my profile or something to that effect as I want to compile a list of names to message gloat over after Dark Pit's beautiful and immaculate reveal (or be aware of those who I have wronged as to avoid future contact ).

Spoiler

@ MasterOfKnees
@TitanTeaTime
@ False Sense
@KenithTheGatherer
@ SegaNintendoUbisoft
@Pizzanigs
@wizardto1
@Rockaphin
@ ihskeyp
@GunGunW
@ TumblrFamous
@ TumblrFamous

I listed "you-know-who" twice on purpose.

(S)He-who-must-be-named-twice.

You seem very sure that he will be in. Care to explain why? I'm neutral to Dark Pit myself, but I don't think he'd be anything more than an alt.

You have the floor.

What have you DONE?!

 

[Morbi]

You're compiling a hate list?

Um... I suppose. It is a list of people who "hate" Dark Pit. It is more or less meant to be a list of people who find him unlikely so that I can be like, "haha haha haha, I was right... you were wrong, haha haha haha." Albeit, the only point of reference that I have are people who do not want him; however, there is a difference between not wanting a character and speculating in favor of them.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Wow. I'm special.

 

[Joe D.]

Oh, fair enough then.

My second assertion must have been correct, then. 8)




(S)He-who-must-be-named-twice.



What have you DONE?!

I WANT TO BE ENTERTAINED.

 

[Bendezium Dweevil]

Mario: Bowser Jr.
Yoshi: Kamek
Zelda: Zant
Pokémon: Sceptile
Donkey Kong: K. Rool / Dixie Kong
Metroid: Ridley
Kirby: Bandana Dee
Mother: Claus
Fire Emblem: Michaiah
F-Zero: Black Shadow
Retro: Sukapon
Veteran: Mewtwo
Third-Party: Leon Kennedy
Most Wanted: Ridley
Don't Want: Dark Pit
Other: Shulk

 

[Frostwraith]

I must be the only Dark Pit supporter who doesn't overestimate his chances and make it seem more likely than he actually is.

His best shot is as an alt for Pit with voice swap, like male and female Villager, Robin and WFT. I would be happy with that.

I'm all for supporting characters, but keep your expectations in check as to not have any unnecessary disappointment.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

The list; it continues to flourish, it continues to thrive... it resumes perpetuating the hatred of Dark Pit.

Anyways; if you are on this list, but you find Dark Pit to be a likely candidate (despite not wanting him), please post a message on my profile or something to that effect as I want to compile a list of names to message gloat over after Dark Pit's beautiful and immaculate reveal (or be aware of those who I have wronged as to avoid future contact ).

Spoiler

@ MasterOfKnees
@TitanTeaTime
@ False Sense
@KenithTheGatherer
@ SegaNintendoUbisoft
@Pizzanigs
@wizardto1
@Rockaphin
@ ihskeyp
@GunGunW
@ TumblrFamous
@ TumblrFamous

I listed "you-know-who" twice on purpose.

I don't find him that unlikely, I've said several times I have no doubt in regards to Sakurai's bias, I just don't like the idea of him. I'm not really seething with hatred towards him either, he is mainly listed on my list because Pac-Man and Mii aren't choices anymore

 

[Morbi]

You seem very sure that he will be in. Care to explain why? I'm neutral to Dark Pit myself, but I don't think he'd be anything more than an alt.

You have the floor.

Honestly, the arguments in favor of him are quite redundant as characters have a finite number of discussion points; however, if you insist. Dark Pit has just as much observable evidence as Shulk, a character considered to be, "shoe-in" by many predominantly based on a leak. Dark Pit himself has a leak with some validity, at the very least. It is not extremely reliable admittedly. The reason for Shulk and Dark Pit's correlation is that their circumstantial evidence revolves around tweets and pictures (one that insinuates that Sakurai is aware of Dark Pit's popularity and another that accurately discerned solo-Charizard). Nothing more, nothing less. For Shulk, that is. Dark Pit has the advantage on several notable fronts.

I do not need to illuminate that Sora Ltd. revived Kid Icarus through the use of Pit in Brawl and the subsequent title, Kid Icarus: Uprising. But obviously I just did anyways. I believe that Dark Pit is special as he was introduced as a Smash original palette prior to being adapted into a character. I believe Galacta Knight was in a similar position. Regardless, Dark Pit was featured prominently in Uprising, a 3DS title with many similarities to Fire Emblem: Awakening. Another series that many, myself included, erroneously assumed would include one character. However, as noted by Lucina, it is quite obvious that that was not the case. Kid Icarus has enough content (through stages, items, Smash Run enemies, etc.) to proportionally represent three characters, especially if one of them is a clone. Most are operating under the delusion that Kid Icarus is a minor series that it does not "deserve" another character arbitrarily. However, this is easily refuted once one notices the preferential treatment. Kid Icarus is associated with heavy-hitting main-stay series: Mario, Pokemon, Legend of Zelda, Donkey Kong, Star Fox, and Kirby. The counter of this argument is that Sakurai would be aware of his inherent biases and decide against Dark Pit despite the sentiment that Kid Icarus is not the only series he is biased in favor of. Some detractors assert that Kid Icarus is close enough to his own series and that he would stop at Palutena... they have not provided a reason after that, I apologize.

The infamous: Dark Pit's allusion was an unprecedented cliff-hanger portion of the argument. Many attempt to contest this aspect by mentioning that veterans are the exception to the rule. But again, if a rule has exceptions, it is not an objective rule. Therefore that argument is not relevant. Especially in regards to an unprecedented appearance as the name might imply... it was unprecedented. We have nothing noteworthy to reference, and thus it is explainable at the current time. This also elicited a photograph show-casing Dark Pit on Palutena's poster-art. Apparently Tom Nook is the counter to this argument for some godforsaken reason that no one is able to accurately establish other than the notion that both appeared in a trailer.

Lastly, the "Dark Pit" is literally a clone so he is a costume argument. If that is not self-referential incoherence... I do not know what is. If you did not read this entire argument, this last potion is all you need to know in order to make a decision not influenced by confirmation bias.

You seem intelligent enough, I do not need to explain why this definitive and absolute evidence is material to my argument. No one has been able to counter this point as it is impossible. But they are certainly adept at ignoring it. Similar does not imply congruent, one would have to fallaciously assert that Dark Pit is quite literally the equivalent of Pit to even hope refuting this point. Trust me... some people have done that. I do not know why either.

However, even though Lucina shares her physical stats and techniques with Marth, the characteristics of their attacks differ. When two such similar characters function in an even slightly different manner, I give them a separate spot on the roster since that will affect battle records and whatnot. In that sense, you could say she was very lucky to join the fray!

 

[mini paincakes]

Are we still playing this dream character game?
Mario: Paper Mario, Bowser jr
Zelda: Tingle, Vaati
Pokemon: Gengar
Kirby: Waddle Dee
Wario: Ashley, Mona
DK: King K. Rool, Dixie
KI: Hades
Metroid: Draygon Ridley
Starfox: Fox's Dad, Slippy
Fire Emblem: Chrom
Mother: Kumatora
Animal Crossing: Tortimer
Pikmin: Plasm Wraith
Retro: Takamaru
Third Party: Shrek Black Mage
Donut Want: Daisy, Goku, Pittoo
Toast Wanted: Shulk
Other: Isaac, Andy, Chorus Men

 

[Morbi]

I must be the only Dark Pit supporter who doesn't overestimate his chances and make it seem more likely than he actually is.

His best shot is as an alt for Pit with voice swap, like male and female Villager, Robin and WFT. I would be happy with that.

I'm all for supporting characters, but keep your expectations in check as to not have any unnecessary disappointment.

Another unfounded and fallacious proclamation. First of all, your subjective opinion is not objective fact. Therefore, you implication that you are the only one that does not "overestimate" his chances is beyond ridiculous. Second of all, you would need to be aware of the "chance" each individual attributes to Dark Pit to be even close to accurate as you believe you might be the only one. What do the other supporters believe? I am positive that you do not have this information. Lastly, I can keep my expectations where I want them to be kept. Thank you very much.

 

[SegaNintendoUbisoft]

The list; it continues to flourish, it continues to thrive... it resumes perpetuating the hatred of Dark Pit.

Anyways; if you are on this list, but you find Dark Pit to be a likely candidate (despite not wanting him), please post a message on my profile or something to that effect as I want to compile a list of names to message gloat over after Dark Pit's beautiful and immaculate reveal (or be aware of those who I have wronged as to avoid future contact ).

Spoiler

@ MasterOfKnees
@TitanTeaTime
@ False Sense
@KenithTheGatherer
@ SegaNintendoUbisoft
@Pizzanigs
@wizardto1
@Rockaphin
@ ihskeyp
@GunGunW
@ TumblrFamous
@ TumblrFamous

I listed "you-know-who" twice on purpose.

I think Dark Pit's going to get in.

Spoiler

As an alternate costume

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Honestly, I think this whole thing with Dark Pit was only funny the first time.

 

[Scamper52596]

Honestly, I think this whole thing with Dark Pit was only funny the first time.

What? You don't find any humor in seeing the debate get brought up multiple times?

 

[Morbi]

Honestly, I think this whole thing with Dark Pit was only funny the first time.

Honestly, I think this whole thing with Dark Pit was never funny.

I think Dark Pit's going to get in.

Spoiler

As an alternate costume

Second best option.

 

[Joe D.]

Honestly, the arguments in favor of him are quite redundant as characters have a finite number of discussion points; however, if you insist. Dark Pit has just as much observable evidence as Shulk, a character considered to be, "shoe-in" by many predominantly based on a leak. Dark Pit himself has a leak with some validity, at the very least. It is not extremely reliable admittedly. The reason for Shulk and Dark Pit's correlation is that their circumstantial evidence revolves around tweets and pictures (one that insinuates that Sakurai is aware of Dark Pit's popularity and another that accurately discerned solo-Charizard). Nothing more, nothing less. For Shulk, that is. Dark Pit has the advantage on several notable fronts.

I do not need to illuminate that Sora Ltd. revived Kid Icarus through the use of Pit in Brawl and the subsequent title, Kid Icarus: Uprising. But obviously I just did anyways. I believe that Dark Pit is special as he was introduced as a Smash original palette prior to being adapted into a character. I believe Galacta Knight was in a similar position. Regardless, Dark Pit was featured prominently in Uprising, a 3DS title with many similarities to Fire Emblem: Awakening. Another series that many, myself included, erroneously assumed would include one character. However, as noted by Lucina, it is quite obvious that that was not the case. Kid Icarus has enough content (through stages, items, Smash Run enemies, etc.) to proportionally represent three characters, especially if one of them is a clone. Most are operating under the delusion that Kid Icarus is a minor series that it does not "deserve" another character arbitrarily. However, this is easily refuted once one notices the preferential treatment. Kid Icarus is associated with heavy-hitting main-stay series: Mario, Pokemon, Legend of Zelda, Donkey Kong, Star Fox, and Kirby. The counter of this argument is that Sakurai would be aware of his inherent biases and decide against Dark Pit despite the sentiment that Kid Icarus is not the only series he is biased in favor of. Some detractors assert that Kid Icarus is close enough to his own series and that he would stop at Palutena... they have not provided a reason after that, I apologize.

The infamous: Dark Pit's allusion was an unprecedented cliff-hanger portion of the argument. Many attempt to contest this aspect by mentioning that veterans are the exception to the rule. But again, if a rule has exceptions, it is not an objective rule. Therefore that argument is not relevant. Especially in regards to an unprecedented appearance as the name might imply... it was unprecedented. We have nothing noteworthy to reference, and thus it is explainable at the current time. This also elicited a photograph show-casing Dark Pit on Palutena's poster-art. Apparently Tom Nook is the counter to this argument for some godforsaken reason that no one is able to accurately establish other than the notion that both appeared in a trailer.

Lastly, the "Dark Pit" is literally a clone so he is a costume argument. If that is not self-referential incoherence... I do not know what is. If you did not read this entire argument, this last potion is all you need to know in order to make a decision not influenced by confirmation bias.

You seem intelligent enough, I do not need to explain why this definitive and absolute evidence is material to my argument. No one has been able to counter this point as it is impossible. But they are certainly adept at ignoring it. Similar does not imply congruent, one would have to fallaciously assert that Dark Pit is quite literally the equivalent of Pit to even hope refuting this point. Trust me... some people have done that. I do not know why either.

However, even though Lucina shares her physical stats and techniques with Marth, the characteristics of their attacks differ. When two such similar characters function in an even slightly different manner, I give them a separate spot on the roster since that will affect battle records and whatnot. In that sense, you could say she was very lucky to join the fray!

What you just said really does put Dark Pit into perspective. He has a lot more of a chance than people give him. My only nitpick when it comes to Dark Pit was in the way he was addressed. You stated in your response the various reason for his inclusion, but what about what we were given? We saw him make an appearance in the trailer, but he was not given any form of newcomer status on the website, nor did he get any tag that labeled him as a newcomer.

This is the only thing that still keeps me from believing that he could have his own spot as a clone, when the only other known newcomer clone was labeled with the title.

 

[Morbi]

What you just said really does put Dark Pit into perspective. He has a lot more of a chance than people give him. My only nitpick when it comes to Dark Pit was in the way he was addressed. You stated in your response the various reason for his inclusion, but what about what we were given? We saw him make an appearance in the trailer, but he was not given any form of newcomer status on the website, nor did he get any tag that labeled him as a newcomer.

This is the only thing that still keeps me from believing that he could have his own spot as a clone, when the only other known newcomer clone was labeled with the title.

Understandable, at least you are reasonable about it. I; too, find it odd that he was not confirmed during e3, it would have been a fairly reasonable time to announce him and it would have attenuated the confusion in regards to Lucina's reveal. However, Game & Watch is in a similar situation (despite being a veteran). So I am maintaining that we should wait and see before drawing any absolute conclusion's based on that alone. I do not find him overly likely in the slightest like Frost might suggest. I believe that he is likely based on the preponderance of the evidence. So basically: 51% if I had to assign an arbitrary number.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Honestly, I think this whole thing with Dark Pit was only funny the first time.

We were serious.

 

[Joe D.]

Understandable, at least you are reasonable about it. I; too, find it odd that he was not confirmed during e3, it would have been a fairly reasonable time to announce him and it would have attenuated the confusion in regards to Lucina's reveal. However, Game & Watch is in a similar situation (despite being a veteran). So I am maintaining that we should wait and see before drawing any absolute conclusion's based on that alone. I do not find him overly likely in the slightest like Frost might suggest. I believe that he is likely based on the preponderance of the evidence. So basically: 51% if I had to assign an arbitrary number.

Well if there's one motto I could give this situation, it's what we give to Smash News in general: Wait and see.

It could go either way, but we'll just have to see the result. Like I said, I'm neutral to him, so I don't mind whatever the outcome is.

You have a good head on your shoulders, Morbid. It's speculators like you who make these threads move forward, which is why I wanted to ask you a question.

I usually ask a question like this to people who can really give me a definitive answer and it seems like you could. What do you think of Krystal's chances based off of Star Fox's current role in Smash and from her character in general? I'd be interested to hear it, since she is my most wanted character.

 

[Morbi]

Well if there's one motto I could give this situation, it's what we give to Smash News in general: Wait and see.

It could go either way, but we'll just have to see the result. Like I said, I'm neutral to him, so I don't mind whatever the outcome is.

You have a good head on your shoulders, Morbid. It's speculators like you who make these threads move forward, which is why I wanted to ask you a question.

I usually ask a question like this to people who can really give me a definitive answer and it seems like you could. What do you think of Krystal's chances based off of Star Fox's current role in Smash and from her character in general? I'd be interested to hear it, since she is my most wanted character.

I am not entirely well-versed on Krystal and her chances to be honest. I do believe that people blatantly dismiss her without material reasoning; however, I am not sure where I stand on her inclusion. I am passively supporting her, I have a good feeling that something might happen, but there is not a lot of observable evidence that I can actually work with in order to support her to the fullest extent.

 

[Nat Perry]

At the end of Palutena's trailer, Dark Pit arrives at the scene, and Palutena says "Dark Pit. You just dropped in to crash my party?" Dark Pit then replies with a "Uh huh." Now, let's analyze these particular lines, and see what we can extrapolate from this.

First off, Palutena just got done showing off her moveset in the trailer. She seemed a bit exhausted. In Smash Bros, characters do not get exhausted in battle. There is such thing as stale-move negation, in which a move can lose its power if used repeatedly. However, the results of this mechanic are not visually apparent in the fighter's model or animation. An exception of course is the Pokemon Trainer, whose Pokemon show physical exhaust in their idle animation, but that appears to be a mechanic made specifically for them, and Pokemon Trainer does not seem to be returning to this game, judging from Charizard being a separate character.

With that out of the way, let's move on to the next part. We see Dark Pit descend from presumably the skies. We see purple feathers fall from his wings, and we can only guess we re-acquired the power to fly by a certain means. Perhaps he defeated Pandora another time stole her powers, or perhaps someone else such as Viridi is enabling him to fly. Palutena does not appear to supply Dark Pit with the power because of her words.

"Dark Pit. You just dropped in to crash my party?" First off, she addresses him by "Dark Pit." Not "Pittoo" or "Ptooey," but "Dark Pit." It is the most informal name on the list, as the prior two names are presumably nicknames. "Pittoo" sounds a lot like "Pit 2," which is referring to Dark Pit as being the second Pit. "Ptooey," according the oh so reliable Urban Dictionary, is an "onomatopoetic word originating from the sound made by spitting. Used to indicate disgust." Who would name themselves after a word used to indicate disgust? Perhaps someone who hates themselves, or wants to draw attention to his or her self. Or, because they actually do induce disgust, whether in oneself or others. However, there is not much to draw from Dark Pit's character that indicates one should be disgusted, at least judging from the trailer.

Moving on. After stating "Dark Pit," she says "You just dropped in to crash my party? After addressing him as Dark Pit, she addresses him with the pronoun, "you." This is used after addressing him by his real name to direct her following words to him. Then she speaks the word "just." "Just," in this context, presumably means "very recently; in the immediate past." Now, there is no indication of how goddesses tell time. After all, it could go by faster or slower than a human's sense of time, however she states this about one second after Dark Pit descends onto the ground. We can infer that her sense of time is the same as humans, or, since she was addressing someone who is not a goddess, she is aware of their sense of time and spoke her words accordingly. Following that, she says the two words "dropped in." Now, "dropped in" is the past tense form of "drop in," and "drop in" means to "visit informally and spontaneously." Now, Dark Pit appears to be doing this very thing. He does not appear to be making an expected visit, in fact, it is quite spontaneous and sudden. There is no indication of his appearance from what happened prior in the trailer, so this is obviously a new development. Then she says "to crash my party." The word "crash" means to "collide violently with another obstacle or vehicle." However, we only see Dark Pit land on the ground and not collide violently with anything. His feet collide with the ground, albeit peacefully. Another definition of "crash" is "to enter a party without invitation or permission." Let's look at the definition of "party." A "party" is "a social gathering of invited guests, typically involving eating, drinking, and entertainment." Now, looking back at the rest of the trailer, there is no apparent eating, drinking, or entertainment, unless Palutena showing off her moves and using them on others constitutes "entertainment." Perhaps there is some Ouzo consumption going on in the background that we are not aware of. Anywho, we hear socializing between Pit, Palutena, and eventually Viridi with this "entertainment" ruckus going on. Unless, perhaps, a "social gathering" for all the characters in this trailer constitutes physically damaging each other; that is the only viable conclusion to make judging from this trailer. As this is a game series, the creator has shown much consistency in his work. On the website for Super Smash Bros. Brawl, he wrote, "In this world, trophies fight. They know nothing but fighting. Fighting is the sole reason for their existence." Now, we can deduce that this world is in the world of Super Smash Bros. for 3DS/Wii U as well. If this is such, then a "party" for these characters does indeed constitute fighting and beating each other up. However, at the end of the trailer, the party seemed to have ended. Pit and Link are nowhere to be found, although Palutena seems tired from showing off her powers. So perhaps the party was still going on, and she was simply taking a break. Either way, Dark Pit's arrival is obviously unsuspected and surprising to all. What does this mean? Is he playable, or is he not?

Well, let us look at past Smash Bros. games. When a new challenger approaches, it is usually after a fight. Not during a fight. The new challenger initiates a fight following the "party" or "fight." Once that challenger is beaten, they become a part of the roster. Dark Pit follows this pattern. After Palutena is done fighting, Dark Pit arrives after her "party." By this evidence, we can conclude, without uncertainty,doubt, or fear of contradiction, that Dark Pit is indeed a new character in the game. There is nothing else to be had here. Accept the fact, and move on with your life. And to all who support his conclusion, celebrate, with beer and wine and Ouzo and whiskey and whatever beverage or choice of food you would like to celebrate with. Thank you all for reading, let us close this discussion now that we definitively know the truth. Now here is my final mission to you all: preach this good news to all. Make believers and followers of this truth. With this, I bid you all farewell and good luck in your mission. Goddesspeed.

 

[Joe D.]

I am not entirely well-versed on Krystal and her chances to be honest. I do believe that people blatantly dismiss her without material reasoning; however, I am not sure where I stand on her inclusion. I am passively supporting her, I have a good feeling that something might happen, but there is not a lot of observable evidence that I can actually work with in order to support her to the fullest extent.

Well thank you for actually responding at least. Hopefully there's good things in store. I agree whole-heartedly about people dismissing her chances without serious thought and that's the one bother I have, but I'll leave that in the support thread from here on out.

 

[Nat Perry]

Well if there's one motto I could give this situation, it's what we give to Smash News in general: Wait and see.

It could go either way, but we'll just have to see the result. Like I said, I'm neutral to him, so I don't mind whatever the outcome is.

You have a good head on your shoulders, Morbid. It's speculators like you who make these threads move forward, which is why I wanted to ask you a question.

I usually ask a question like this to people who can really give me a definitive answer and it seems like you could. What do you think of Krystal's chances based off of Star Fox's current role in Smash and from her character in general? I'd be interested to hear it, since she is my most wanted character.

I think that she has a decent chance. She's significant character and has been in three games, and is an official member of Star Fox. She can differentiate herself from the rest of the roster well with her staff and telekinetic powers. However, I am not sure if four Starfox characters would bid well with Sakurai, that is up to him.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Is anyone else just neutral on Dark Pit's inclusion?

I feel like he's a very polarizing individual but I can't seem to get worked up one way or the other about him.

 

[ミスティック Speed]

At the end of Palutena's trailer, Dark Pit arrives at the scene, and Palutena says "Dark Pit. You just dropped in to crash my party?" Dark Pit then replies with a "Uh huh." Now, let's analyze these particular lines, and see what we can extrapolate from this.

First off, Palutena just got done showing off her moveset in the trailer. She seemed a bit exhausted. In Smash Bros, characters do not get exhausted in battle. There is such thing as stale-move negation, in which a move can lose its power if used repeatedly. However, the results of this mechanic are not visually apparent in the fighter's model or animation. An exception of course is the Pokemon Trainer, whose Pokemon show physical exhaust in their idle animation, but that appears to be a mechanic made specifically for them, and Pokemon Trainer does not seem to be returning to this game, judging from Charizard being a separate character.

With that out of the way, let's move on to the next part. We see Dark Pit descend from presumably the skies. We see purple feathers fall from his wings, and we can only guess we re-acquired the power to fly by a certain means. Perhaps he defeated Pandora another time stole her powers, or perhaps someone else such as Viridi is enabling him to fly. Palutena does not appear to supply Dark Pit with the power because of her words.

"Dark Pit. You just dropped in to crash my party?" First off, she addresses him by "Dark Pit." Not "Pittoo" or "Ptooey," but "Dark Pit." It is the most informal name on the list, as the prior two names are presumably nicknames. "Pittoo" sounds a lot like "Pit 2," which is referring to Dark Pit as being the second Pit. "Ptooey," according the oh so reliable Urban Dictionary, is an "onomatopoetic word originating from the sound made by spitting. Used to indicate disgust." Who would name themselves after a word used to indicate disgust? Perhaps someone who hates themselves, or wants to draw attention to his or her self. Or, because they actually do induce disgust, whether in oneself or others. However, there is not much to draw from Dark Pit's character that indicates one should be disgusted, at least judging from the trailer.

Moving on. After stating "Dark Pit," she says "You just dropped in to crash my party? After addressing him as Dark Pit, she addresses him with the pronoun, "you." This is used after addressing him by his real name to direct her following words to him. Then she speaks the word "just." "Just," in this context, presumably means "very recently; in the immediate past." Now, there is no indication of how goddesses tell time. After all, it could go by faster or slower than a human's sense of time, however she states this about one second after Dark Pit descends onto the ground. We can infer that her sense of time is the same as humans, or, since she was addressing someone who is not a goddess, she is aware of their sense of time and spoke her words accordingly. Following that, she says the two words "dropped in." Now, "dropped in" is the past tense form of "drop in," and "drop in" means to "visit informally and spontaneously." Now, Dark Pit appears to be doing this very thing. He does not appear to be making an expected visit, in fact, it is quite spontaneous and sudden. There is no indication of his appearance from what happened prior in the trailer, so this is obviously a new development. Then she says "to crash my party." The word "crash" means to "collide violently with another obstacle or vehicle." However, we only see Dark Pit land on the ground and not collide violently with anything. His feet collide with the ground, albeit peacefully. Another definition of "crash" is "to enter a party without invitation or permission." Let's look at the definition of "party." A "party" is "a social gathering of invited guests, typically involving eating, drinking, and entertainment." Now, looking back at the rest of the trailer, there is no apparent eating, drinking, or entertainment, unless Palutena showing off her moves and using them on others constitutes "entertainment." Perhaps there is some Ouzo consumption going on in the background that we are not aware of. Anywho, we hear socializing between Pit, Palutena, and eventually Viridi with this "entertainment" ruckus going on. Unless, perhaps, a "social gathering" for all the characters in this trailer constitutes physically damaging each other; that is the only viable conclusion to make judging from this trailer. As this is a game series, the creator has shown much consistency in his work. On the website for Super Smash Bros. Brawl, he wrote, "In this world, trophies fight. They know nothing but fighting. Fighting is the sole reason for their existence." Now, we can deduce that this world is in the world of Super Smash Bros. for 3DS/Wii U as well. If this is such, then a "party" for these characters does indeed constitute fighting and beating each other up. However, at the end of the trailer, the party seemed to have ended. Pit and Link are nowhere to be found, although Palutena seems tired from showing off her powers. So perhaps the party was still going on, and she was simply taking a break. Either way, Dark Pit's arrival is obviously unsuspected and surprising to all. What does this mean? Is he playable, or is he not?

Well, let us look at past Smash Bros. games. When a new challenger approaches, it is usually after a fight. Not during a fight. The new challenger initiates a fight following the "party" or "fight." Once that challenger is beaten, they become a part of the roster. Dark Pit follows this pattern. After Palutena is done fighting, Dark Pit arrives after her "party." By this evidence, we can conclude, without uncertainty,doubt, or fear of contradiction, that Dark Pit is indeed a new character in the game. There is nothing else to be had here. Accept the fact, and move on with your life. And to all who support his conclusion, celebrate, with beer and wine and Ouzo and whiskey and whatever beverage or choice of food you would like to celebrate with. Thank you all for reading, let us close this discussion now that we definitively know the truth. Now here is my final mission to you all: preach this good news to all. Make believers and followers of this truth. With this, I bid you all farewell and good luck in your mission. Goddesspeed.

Wait, people still don't know/understand he's a playable character? Ha...
HAHAHAHA....people...people please.

 

[Morbi]

At the end of Palutena's trailer, Dark Pit arrives at the scene, and Palutena says "Dark Pit. You just dropped in to crash my party?" Dark Pit then replies with a "Uh huh." Now, let's analyze these particular lines, and see what we can extrapolate from this.

First off, Palutena just got done showing off her moveset in the trailer. She seemed a bit exhausted. In Smash Bros, characters do not get exhausted in battle. There is such thing as stale-move negation, in which a move can lose its power if used repeatedly. However, the results of this mechanic are not visually apparent in the fighter's model or animation. An exception of course is the Pokemon Trainer, whose Pokemon show physical exhaust in their idle animation, but that appears to be a mechanic made specifically for them, and Pokemon Trainer does not seem to be returning to this game, judging from Charizard being a separate character.

With that out of the way, let's move on to the next part. We see Dark Pit descend from presumably the skies. We see purple feathers fall from his wings, and we can only guess we re-acquired the power to fly by a certain means. Perhaps he defeated Pandora another time stole her powers, or perhaps someone else such as Viridi is enabling him to fly. Palutena does not appear to supply Dark Pit with the power because of her words.

"Dark Pit. You just dropped in to crash my party?" First off, she addresses him by "Dark Pit." Not "Pittoo" or "Ptooey," but "Dark Pit." It is the most informal name on the list, as the prior two names are presumably nicknames. "Pittoo" sounds a lot like "Pit 2," which is referring to Dark Pit as being the second Pit. "Ptooey," according the oh so reliable Urban Dictionary, is an "onomatopoetic word originating from the sound made by spitting. Used to indicate disgust." Who would name themselves after a word used to indicate disgust? Perhaps someone who hates themselves, or wants to draw attention to his or her self. Or, because they actually do induce disgust, whether in oneself or others. However, there is not much to draw from Dark Pit's character that indicates one should be disgusted, at least judging from the trailer.

Moving on. After stating "Dark Pit," she says "You just dropped in to crash my party? After addressing him as Dark Pit, she addresses him with the pronoun, "you." This is used after addressing him by his real name to direct her following words to him. Then she speaks the word "just." "Just," in this context, presumably means "very recently; in the immediate past." Now, there is no indication of how goddesses tell time. After all, it could go by faster or slower than a human's sense of time, however she states this about one second after Dark Pit descends onto the ground. We can infer that her sense of time is the same as humans, or, since she was addressing someone who is not a goddess, she is aware of their sense of time and spoke her words accordingly. Following that, she says the two words "dropped in." Now, "dropped in" is the past tense form of "drop in," and "drop in" means to "visit informally and spontaneously." Now, Dark Pit appears to be doing this very thing. He does not appear to be making an expected visit, in fact, it is quite spontaneous and sudden. There is no indication of his appearance from what happened prior in the trailer, so this is obviously a new development. Then she says "to crash my party." The word "crash" means to "collide violently with another obstacle or vehicle." However, we only see Dark Pit land on the ground and not collide violently with anything. His feet collide with the ground, albeit peacefully. Another definition of "crash" is "to enter a party without invitation or permission." Let's look at the definition of "party." A "party" is "a social gathering of invited guests, typically involving eating, drinking, and entertainment." Now, looking back at the rest of the trailer, there is no apparent eating, drinking, or entertainment, unless Palutena showing off her moves and using them on others constitutes "entertainment." Perhaps there is some Ouzo consumption going on in the background that we are not aware of. Anywho, we hear socializing between Pit, Palutena, and eventually Viridi with this "entertainment" ruckus going on. Unless, perhaps, a "social gathering" for all the characters in this trailer constitutes physically damaging each other; that is the only viable conclusion to make judging from this trailer. As this is a game series, the creator has shown much consistency in his work. On the website for Super Smash Bros. Brawl, he wrote, "In this world, trophies fight. They know nothing but fighting. Fighting is the sole reason for their existence." Now, we can deduce that this world is in the world of Super Smash Bros. for 3DS/Wii U as well. If this is such, then a "party" for these characters does indeed constitute fighting and beating each other up. However, at the end of the trailer, the party seemed to have ended. Pit and Link are nowhere to be found, although Palutena seems tired from showing off her powers. So perhaps the party was still going on, and she was simply taking a break. Either way, Dark Pit's arrival is obviously unsuspected and surprising to all. What does this mean? Is he playable, or is he not?

Well, let us look at past Smash Bros. games. When a new challenger approaches, it is usually after a fight. Not during a fight. The new challenger initiates a fight following the "party" or "fight." Once that challenger is beaten, they become a part of the roster. Dark Pit follows this pattern. After Palutena is done fighting, Dark Pit arrives after her "party." By this evidence, we can conclude, without uncertainty,doubt, or fear of contradiction, that Dark Pit is indeed a new character in the game. There is nothing else to be had here. Accept the fact, and move on with your life. And to all who support his conclusion, celebrate, with beer and wine and Ouzo and whiskey and whatever beverage or choice of food you would like to celebrate with. Thank you all for reading, let us close this discussion now that we definitively know the truth. Now here is my final mission to you all: preach this good news to all. Make believers and followers of this truth. With this, I bid you all farewell and good luck in your mission. Goddesspeed.

The only issue is that the original context is in Japanese, so it is impossible to accurately discern his role based on this alone. It could be used as contributory evidence that supports why you personally believe Dark Pit to be playable over another role; however, it cannot be used to objectively determine anything pertaining to his role.

 

[Plain Yogurt]

Ooooo! Dream List!
Mario: Waluigi
Yoshi: Shy Guy
Zelda: Ghirahim
Pokemon: Chestnaught
Kirby: Waddle Dee
Wario: Jimmy T.
DK: Lanky Kong
KI: Hades
Metroid: Abstain
Starfox: Slippy
Fire Emblem: Ephraim, Hector, or Tiki
Mother: Abstain
Animal Crossing: Abstain
Pikmin: Plasm Wraith (for lack of a better option, and honestly it could kinda work.)
Retro: Bubbles
Third Party: Rayman
Do not Want: Krystal or Bowser Junior
Most Wanted: ANDY

 

[Nat Perry]

The only issue is that the original context is in Japanese, so it is impossible to accurately discern his role based on this alone. It could be used as contributory evidence that supports why you personally believe Dark Pit to be playable over another role; however, it cannot be used to objectively determine anything pertaining to his role.

No I know he's in. I searched for the truth, and found it. The gods have confirmed this with me. Unless they're meddling with my mind.

 

[Burruni]

Well if there's one motto I could give this situation, it's what we give to Smash News in general: Wait and see.

It could go either way, but we'll just have to see the result. Like I said, I'm neutral to him, so I don't mind whatever the outcome is.

You have a good head on your shoulders, Morbid. It's speculators like you who make these threads move forward, which is why I wanted to ask you a question.

I usually ask a question like this to people who can really give me a definitive answer and it seems like you could. What do you think of Krystal's chances based off of Star Fox's current role in Smash and from her character in general? I'd be interested to hear it, since she is my most wanted character.

I am by no means quite on par of Morbid, but I wish to throw my hat in for this point... but it is a pessimistic one, so be prepared.

Pros:
Krystal, as a character, represents the part of the Star Fox series that tears the fandom apart from the inside. While only using her staff in the tutorial of Adventures, it is seen by Fox throughout the game just how much her staff is capable of in combat and movement. Up close, it has been shown to work like a twinblade which is twirled to attack with a flurry of hits, but has various elemental projectiles and a Rocket-Jump style launching power. One of very few females in the entire series, she has the potential of being a Star Fox character who isn't derived from Fox for most of their moveset. She also has a fair amount of fan support, being in the top 5 non-Ridley newcomer boards active on the site right now. While quite tentative, there has been a SF newcomer in each Smash game.

Cons:
As I said before, the games that she comes from are those in the Star Fox lineage with the most mixed reception. Within the franchise in relation to Smash, people feud as is on Falco and/or Wolf being cut due to how neither of them being confirmed and being from the same games, and many are torn on Krystal if she is "replacing" one of the two veterans or even more so if she is a fourth for Star Fox. Some of the uniqueness for her as a staff user has been dwindled by the additions of Palutena (down to the Rocket Launch with a staff) and Robin (who uses tomes, but is still a magical character). There is a sizable pool of people who revolt at the premise of her as a unique newcomer, on par of how a number of clones are handled.

Ambiguous: The Star Fox: Assault Great Fox stage. At this point of the games, Peppy Hare has retired due to old age. Fittingly thus, the two Arwings shown with the stage, if part of the actual design, would be piloted by Slippy and Krystal. Unlike Corneria in Melee in which Falco's usage in an Arwing (in the Adventure Mode cutscene for the stage) was swapped for another active member, there only other character who has used an Arwing for the Star Fox group and in commision at the time of assault would be Kat Monroe. Take this as you will, but I personally see this as leaning evidence against her.

Overall chance: I'm not going to throw an arbitrary number; I don't see her as likely based upon the size of Star Fox in the roster if all 3 Brawl vets return (Falco has his massive popularity, and Wolf has his semi-clone differentiation), Palutena and Robin utilizing some of Krystal's uniqueness, and that she has a certain... kind of people in the midst of her Fanbase that are more pronounced than others which gives a negative air about the character to some. By no means do I say she's impossible, but I would not place a bet upon her inclusion.

Edit before people fly on this: With the point of Star Fox's slice of the roster, I don't believe there's a threshold, a limit of characters per franchise. However, I believe that part of the process is that Sakurai will look for a newcomer or two in a series he sees people loving and see if he likes anyone there. Less that a series NEEDS more characters, but if Sakurai sees a character he likes in a series brought to his attention by popularity. Star Fox lately has had Adventures, Assault, and Command which has had very mixed responses to, and finally 64 3D which like OoT 3D, Super Mario 64 DS, Kirby Super Star Ultra, etc. was a remake of the most mutually beloved game in the series.

 

[TumblrFamous]

What ever happened to that video that showed there being a little boss Health Bar at the top of the screen on the Palutena Temple stage? Have people just decided to forget that?

 

[ihskeyp]

I see I am listed on your 'hate list' @ Morbi and I must say that you have complete permission to rub it in my face if Dark Pit is announced as a playable character. I will be doing the same to Dixie's detractors if she's ever announced. However, I firmly believe that Pittoo will be an alt or a boss on Palutenas stage.

 

[Joe D.]

I am by no means quite on par of Morbid, but I wish to throw my hat in for this point... but it is a pessimistic one, so be prepared.

Pros:
Krystal, as a character, represents the part of the Star Fox series that tears the fandom apart from the inside. While only using her staff in the tutorial of Adventures, it is seen by Fox throughout the game just how much her staff is capable of in combat and movement. Up close, it has been shown to work like a twinblade which is twirled to attack with a flurry of hits, but has various elemental projectiles and a Rocket-Jump style launching power. One of very few females in the entire series, she has the potential of being a Star Fox character who isn't derived from Fox for most of their moveset. She also has a fair amount of fan support, being in the top 5 non-Ridley newcomer boards active on the site right now. While quite tentative, there has been a SF newcomer in each Smash game.

Cons:
As I said before, the games that she comes from are those in the Star Fox lineage with the most mixed reception. Within the franchise in relation to Smash, people feud as is on Falco and/or Wolf being cut due to how neither of them being confirmed and being from the same games, and many are torn on Krystal if she is "replacing" one of the two veterans or even more so if she is a fourth for Star Fox. Some of the uniqueness for her as a staff user has been dwindled by the additions of Palutena (down to the Rocket Launch with a staff) and Robin (who uses tomes, but is still a magical character). There is a sizable pool of people who revolt at the premise of her as a unique newcomer, on par of how a number of clones are handled.

Ambiguous: The Star Fox: Assault Great Fox stage. At this point of the games, Peppy Hare has retired due to old age. Fittingly thus, the two Arwings shown with the stage, if part of the actual design, would be piloted by Slippy and Krystal. Unlike Corneria in Melee in which Falco's usage in an Arwing (in the Adventure Mode cutscene for the stage) was swapped for another active member, there only other character who has used an Arwing for the Star Fox group and in commision at the time of assault would be Kat Monroe. Take this as you will, but I personally see this as leaning evidence against her.

Overall chance: I'm not going to throw an arbitrary number; I don't see her as likely based upon the size of Star Fox in the roster if all 3 Brawl vets return (Falco has his massive popularity, and Wolf has his semi-clone differentiation), Palutena and Robin utilizing some of Krystal's uniqueness, and that she has a certain... kind of people in the midst of her Fanbase that are more pronounced than others which gives a negative air about the character to some. By no means do I say she's impossible, but I would not place a bet upon her inclusion.

Well I'm all for opinions, and I enjoyed reading your thoughts. I am going to argue with you on one thing: The Assault Stage. We've seen in past instances of Smash Bros. That the arwings have no affect on the characters that are in the fight. Look at Lylat Cruise. I think that the two arwings shown on the Assault stage are nothing more than a background.

 

[Morbi]

I see I am listed on your 'hate list' @ Morbi and I must say that you have complete permission to rub it in my face if Dark Pit is announced as a playable character. I will be doing the same to Dixie's detractors if she's ever announced. However, I firmly believe that Pittoo will be an alt or a boss on Palutenas stage.

Interesting prospect, I thank you for the permission.

No I know he's in. I searched for the truth, and found it. The gods have confirmed this with me. Unless they're meddling with my mind.

... Wait a second... Gods... meddling... Dark Pit confirmed!

 

[mark welford]

At the end of Palutena's trailer, Dark Pit arrives at the scene, and Palutena says "Dark Pit. You just dropped in to crash my party?" Dark Pit then replies with a "Uh huh." Now, let's analyze these particular lines, and see what we can extrapolate from this.

First off, Palutena just got done showing off her moveset in the trailer. She seemed a bit exhausted. In Smash Bros, characters do not get exhausted in battle. There is such thing as stale-move negation, in which a move can lose its power if used repeatedly. However, the results of this mechanic are not visually apparent in the fighter's model or animation. An exception of course is the Pokemon Trainer, whose Pokemon show physical exhaust in their idle animation, but that appears to be a mechanic made specifically for them, and Pokemon Trainer does not seem to be returning to this game, judging from Charizard being a separate character.

With that out of the way, let's move on to the next part. We see Dark Pit descend from presumably the skies. We see purple feathers fall from his wings, and we can only guess we re-acquired the power to fly by a certain means. Perhaps he defeated Pandora another time stole her powers, or perhaps someone else such as Viridi is enabling him to fly. Palutena does not appear to supply Dark Pit with the power because of her words.

"Dark Pit. You just dropped in to crash my party?" First off, she addresses him by "Dark Pit." Not "Pittoo" or "Ptooey," but "Dark Pit." It is the most informal name on the list, as the prior two names are presumably nicknames. "Pittoo" sounds a lot like "Pit 2," which is referring to Dark Pit as being the second Pit. "Ptooey," according the oh so reliable Urban Dictionary, is an "onomatopoetic word originating from the sound made by spitting. Used to indicate disgust." Who would name themselves after a word used to indicate disgust? Perhaps someone who hates themselves, or wants to draw attention to his or her self. Or, because they actually do induce disgust, whether in oneself or others. However, there is not much to draw from Dark Pit's character that indicates one should be disgusted, at least judging from the trailer.

Moving on. After stating "Dark Pit," she says "You just dropped in to crash my party? After addressing him as Dark Pit, she addresses him with the pronoun, "you." This is used after addressing him by his real name to direct her following words to him. Then she speaks the word "just." "Just," in this context, presumably means "very recently; in the immediate past." Now, there is no indication of how goddesses tell time. After all, it could go by faster or slower than a human's sense of time, however she states this about one second after Dark Pit descends onto the ground. We can infer that her sense of time is the same as humans, or, since she was addressing someone who is not a goddess, she is aware of their sense of time and spoke her words accordingly. Following that, she says the two words "dropped in." Now, "dropped in" is the past tense form of "drop in," and "drop in" means to "visit informally and spontaneously." Now, Dark Pit appears to be doing this very thing. He does not appear to be making an expected visit, in fact, it is quite spontaneous and sudden. There is no indication of his appearance from what happened prior in the trailer, so this is obviously a new development. Then she says "to crash my party." The word "crash" means to "collide violently with another obstacle or vehicle." However, we only see Dark Pit land on the ground and not collide violently with anything. His feet collide with the ground, albeit peacefully. Another definition of "crash" is "to enter a party without invitation or permission." Let's look at the definition of "party." A "party" is "a social gathering of invited guests, typically involving eating, drinking, and entertainment." Now, looking back at the rest of the trailer, there is no apparent eating, drinking, or entertainment, unless Palutena showing off her moves and using them on others constitutes "entertainment." Perhaps there is some Ouzo consumption going on in the background that we are not aware of. Anywho, we hear socializing between Pit, Palutena, and eventually Viridi with this "entertainment" ruckus going on. Unless, perhaps, a "social gathering" for all the characters in this trailer constitutes physically damaging each other; that is the only viable conclusion to make judging from this trailer. As this is a game series, the creator has shown much consistency in his work. On the website for Super Smash Bros. Brawl, he wrote, "In this world, trophies fight. They know nothing but fighting. Fighting is the sole reason for their existence." Now, we can deduce that this world is in the world of Super Smash Bros. for 3DS/Wii U as well. If this is such, then a "party" for these characters does indeed constitute fighting and beating each other up. However, at the end of the trailer, the party seemed to have ended. Pit and Link are nowhere to be found, although Palutena seems tired from showing off her powers. So perhaps the party was still going on, and she was simply taking a break. Either way, Dark Pit's arrival is obviously unsuspected and surprising to all. What does this mean? Is he playable, or is he not?

Well, let us look at past Smash Bros. games. When a new challenger approaches, it is usually after a fight. Not during a fight. The new challenger initiates a fight following the "party" or "fight." Once that challenger is beaten, they become a part of the roster. Dark Pit follows this pattern. After Palutena is done fighting, Dark Pit arrives after her "party." By this evidence, we can conclude, without uncertainty,doubt, or fear of contradiction, that Dark Pit is indeed a new character in the game. There is nothing else to be had here. Accept the fact, and move on with your life. And to all who support his conclusion, celebrate, with beer and wine and Ouzo and whiskey and whatever beverage or choice of food you would like to celebrate with. Thank you all for reading, let us close this discussion now that we definitively know the truth. Now here is my final mission to you all: preach this good news to all. Make believers and followers of this truth. With this, I bid you all farewell and good luck in your mission. Goddesspeed.

this is a very thorough explanation of clues to dark pit's inclusion into the wonderful world we call smash sir! although I do not personally care for him not the type of care where I hate him but the type of care where I am like I do not love or hate him I am just like meh basically what I am saying I am on neutral ground when it comes to this subject