Character Discussion Thread

[AEMehr]

Dark Pit is a grass-type that completes an arbitrary fan pattern? Dark Pit is a starter Pokemon featured in an upcoming 3DS title that just so happens to be a remake? "Muh recency that is not so recent?" I am not understanding the correlation in the slightest.

You don't need to take what he said so literally. He probably meant it's more fitting to compare Dark Pit to Sceptile than Shadow and Metal Sonic when it came to how likely the character would be.

 

[Nat Perry]

Ok now that I saw the HP thing (it actually translated to HP left according to an actual Japanese speaker in the comments below the video) I'm pretty convinced he's going to be a boss. Unless there's another boss.

 

[Kenith]

It's true that to our knowledge, they have never shown or hinted at a character without them being playable.
However, they have done so with alternate costumes.

If the Male Wii Fit Trainer showed up at the end of WFT's trailer, would people think he was a separate character?

 

[Nat Perry]

That was pretty blatantly obvious doe. No way he was hinted at being a boss or Assist Trophy or stage hazard, anyone with a brain could have easily inferred that he was an alt costume.

If the Male Wii Fit Trainer showed up at the end of WFT's trailer, would people think he was a separate character?

Yes.

 

[BluePikmin11]

It's true that to our knowledge, they have never shown or hinted at a character without them being playable.
However, they have done so with alternate costumes.

If the Male Wii Fit Trainer showed up at the end of WFT's trailer, would people think he was a separate character?

He would've clearly showcased that you can play as Male WFT just like in the end of Robin's trailer.

 

[Rockaphin]

If the Male Wii Fit Trainer showed up at the end of WFT's trailer, would people think he was a separate character?

. . . Probably so.


Seriously though, he's not from Kid Icarus so he has to be an alt. . . Duh!

 

[Kenith]

He would've clearly showcased that you can play as Male WFT just like in the end of Robin's trailer.

But he didn't.
We didn't know you could play as a male WFT until nearly a year later.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Probably because it wouldn't hype most people up unlike the people who, for some reason, want Female Robin as playable alt. for a trailer.

 

[False Sense]

Probably because it wouldn't hype most people up unlike the people who, for some reason, want Female Robin as playable alt. for a trailer.

I think they were waiting to show that elaborate alternate costumes like that were a thing. Hence why we didn't get Male Wii Fit Trainer and Female Villager until much later, but got Female Robin right away.

 

[Kenith]

Probably because it wouldn't hype most people up unlike the people who, for some reason, want Female Robin as playable alt. for a trailer.

What's wrong with female Robin?

Do you realize how many people prefer to play as a girl? Including girls?
edit: I may have misconstrued your post, but if I didn't, wow, that is a baffling statement.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

But he didn't.
We didn't know you could play as a male WFT until nearly a year later.

It was only 4 months, I remember it being ironic that it was shown on Halloween. And now I feel like I'm being nitpicky

 

[Kenith]

It was only 4 months, I remember it being ironic that it was shown on Halloween. And now I feel like I'm being nitpicky

I mean we didn't know for sure there was a alt for WFT for nearly a year.

More like nine and a half months.

 

[epicgordan]

It's true that to our knowledge, they have never shown or hinted at a character without them being playable.
However, they have done so with alternate costumes.

If the Male Wii Fit Trainer showed up at the end of WFT's trailer, would people think he was a separate character?

The difference was that Dark Pit was merely shown in an animated segment rather than through gameplay footage.

Now, as for this supposed boss, there is no way Dark Pit is going to be a boss. On a map this huge? It is utterly impractical for a character small enough to be confused for a playable character on a stage like that to be a boss. Medusa and Hades seem to be much more viable options, but I prefer Hades.

 

[Kenith]

The difference was that Dark Pit was merely shown in an animated segment rather than through gameplay footage.

How is this relevant to anything?

Now, as for this supposed boss, there is no way Dark Pit is going to be a boss. On a map this huge? It is utterly impractical for a character small enough to be confused for a playable character on a stage like that to be a boss. Medusa and Hades seem to be much more viable options, but I prefer Hades.

Actually, Dark Pit being a stage boss here is what is so perfect, because due to his size, he'll almost always be avoidable.

 

[Louie G.]

For the record, if a character like Dark Pit is a boss I worry for Ridley.

I mean imagine fighting a puny boss like Dark Pit with Ridley.

 

[Kenith]

For the record, if a character like Dark Pit is a boss I worry for Ridley.
I mean imagine fighting a puny boss like Dark Pit with Ridley.

Actually, I would say it increases or has no bearing on Ridley's chances as a playable character, since there is more of a visual difference between Roidley and Ridley than Dark Pit and Pit.

 

[wildvine47]

Honestly, even with as much bias as Sakurai is showing his baby Kid Icarus, I don't think he'd go as far as to make DP his own character. He knows about the stigma attached to clones, and with how reluctant he was to give Kirby favoritism, I'd hope that Palutena and the massive amount of KI enemies in Smash Run is it.

 

[Arcanir]

True, but keep in mind that the starter trio is VERY important to Pokemon. I have no way of knowing whether Sakurai cares about balancing the trio but I can say that leaving out the grass type starter when the other two types are present would be an unkind thing to do too grass type fans.

Being kind is a luxury in Smash, it can't possibly please everyone and it can't be "fair" to them all. For instance, we don't have equal representation of all six generations, and in fact, we nearly had Melee not representing Generation 2 at all character-wise. Not everything is going to be fair, and it shouldn't be the main thing used to push a character, the character should sell itself.

Regardless, they can still play favorites no matter what. Even in the base series members of a certain starter group tend to get more love then the others in promotion and the like, with Charizard being the big example of that, and that does mean some get overlooked. Sceptile is a case of the latter, it doesn't have much going for it as it's outshone by both of its compatriots and in general isn't that notable of a Pokémon, especially not to the extent of those like Charizard, Mewtwo and Pikachu. It's only saving grace is the fan theory surrounding its typing, and that's not the best way to sell the character. So regardless of fairness, it can be ignored.

 

[Xenorange]

Being kind is a luxury in Smash, it can't possibly please everyone and it can't be "fair" to them all. For instance, we don't have equal representation of all six generations for instance, and in fact, we nearly had Melee not represent Generation 2 at all character-wise. Not everything is going to be fair, and it shouldn't be used to push a character, the character should sell itself.

Regardless, they can still play favorites no matter what. Even in the base series, members of a certain starter group tend to get more love then the others in promotion and the like, with Charizard being the big example of that, and that does mean some get overlooked. Sceptile is a case of the latter, it doesn't have much going for it as it's outshone by both of its compatriots and in general isn't that notable of a Pokémon, especially not to the extent of those like Charizard, Mewtwo and Pikachu. It's only saving grace is the fan theory surrounding its typing, and that's not the best way to sell the character. So regardless of fairness, it can be ignored.

I once again direct you to Ivysaur, a wildly unpopular Pokemon character. Half of the people I played with barley knew his name. I'd always hear him being called Bulbasaur or venusaur or "that cabbage turtle thing". I get that he is one of the original starters but other than that the only reason he was added was because of his TYPING and because of his point in his evolutionary cycle. If Sakurai does in fact wish to complete the starter trio, I'm willing to bet Sceptile is the biggest candidate.

Spoiler

 

[Spinosaurus]

I like Grass types the most and I can't say I give a ****.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

As far as a grass type player goes, I'm going to sit back, have a calm mind, and wait until we know for sure if it's happening.

 

[NickerBocker]

Since were talking about "fairness..."

Fairness is a subjective term. It is completely different for every person and situation. What is fair for some may not be fair to others.

On the topic of Pokemon, sure, some might not consider it "fair" to skip over a grass starter because they are being left out of the starter trio. Others, such as myself, think it would unfair to skip over a character like Mewtwo because they do not fill the niche of being part of a starter trio, regardless of how requested and wanted someone like Mewtwo is.

Some may also consider it unfair that Charizard remains playable and Squirtle and Ivysaur are (as far as we can guess) cut, but that is neither here nor there...

Getting away from fairness, and about the topic of these new pokemon games being "too early in development to be represented in Smash..."

Was it ever really a surprise that a remake of Ruby and Sapphire were coming out? Anyone with prior knowledge of pokemon games could see a pattern of generation remakes, and whether or not there was knowledge of the product becoming a reality, Sakurai would have seen it coming, as 99% of Pokemon fans did.

All I'm trying to get at is Sceptile has a chance, and its pretty slim.

 

[TumblrFamous]

...I don't think type coverage matters.

If all the huge relevant popular Pokemon were Fire, they would all be in. We're not going to add a grass starter for the sole purpose for completing the trio. It doesn't make any sense.

 

[Arcanir]

I once again direct you to Ivysaur, a wildly unpopular Pokemon character. Half of the people I played with barley knew his name. I'd always hear him being called Bulbasaur or venusaur or "that cabbage turtle thing". I get that he is one of the original starters but other than that the only reason he was added was because of his TYPING and because of his point in his evolutionary cycle. If Sakurai does in fact wish to complete the starter trio, I'm willing to bet Sceptile is the biggest candidate.

And again, I point you to the fact that it's tied to PT. Ivysaur had the luxury of A) Being a part of a popular starter trio (its line is still very popular overall), and B) Being a part of the trio mechanic. Sceptile doesn't have either luxury, it's not a part of a trio, so it doesn't have to be added for the sake of typing/balance like Ivysaur did, and it lags behind most Pokémon characters. If PT still existed and he had Charizard and Greninja, it'd be a different story, but as of right now it's something that may not even matter with the character gone.

 

[Turokman5896]

...I don't think type coverage matters.

If all the huge relevant popular Pokemon were Fire, they would all be in. We're not going to add a grass starter for the sole purpose for completing the trio. It doesn't make any sense.

We're not doing anything. Sakurai is, and it's his choice. I could see sceptile being playable for multiple reasons, completing the trio being one. Will he? I doubt it. But we can't pretend to understand sakurai's reasoning.

 

[Morbi]

Honestly, even with as much bias as Sakurai is showing his baby Kid Icarus, I don't think he'd go as far as to make DP his own character. He knows about the stigma attached to clones, and with how reluctant he was to give Kirby favoritism, I'd hope that Palutena and the massive amount of KI enemies in Smash Run is it.

Kid Icarus is not necessarily his series in the same vein as Kirby, Sora Ltd. revived the franchise, sure. However, that does not all of a sudden make it his. As I asserted earlier, Smash is his game. The ENTIRE roster is riddled with bias, he determines which series get preferential treatment, he determines which series warrant characters or stages, he is the one who decides almost everything pertaining to Smash. So It is doubtful that he would so abruptly avoid a character just because there is a "stigma" attached to them. Until he demonstrates that he is reluctant to add more Kid Icarus content, the point is moot.

 

[Hot Uncle Sparky]

If it happens that Not Pit gets in, Dr. Mario's chances will soar.

 

[Morbi]

If it happens that Not Pit gets in, Dr. Mario's chances will soar.

As of current, I speculate in favor of both of them. Honestly, Dr. Mario is the more logical choice as he is not going to be a costume if he is included.

 

[Frostwraith]

Why is it that every time I come here, the subject is Dark Pit? lol

I'm still thinking he will be an alt for Pit. If Lucina is any indication, different characters can make it as alternate costumes, different names, voices, outfits and so on included. Dark Pit will be playable, he just won't be a separate character. Just like how Lucina was meant to be.

As for the supposed boss on Palutena's Temple... It could be anything. Not necessarily Dark Pit. I've made a post about this on the Dark Pit thread, so check that out if you're interested.

 

[HugoBoss]

Why I don't believe that dark Pit will be a separate newcomer
1.His cameo in the Palutena trailer does not contribute to any hint of him being playable
2. Sakurai also stated that even if the character is not completely the same, they could be an alternate costume. Lucina was very lucky to even have a slot because of the slight differences between her and Marth. Who says this guarantees Dark Pit? It means he go both ways.
3.Let's be real, Sakurai is not that biased.

While I do see Sceptile as a possible newcomer, I think his chances are slim. The Grass Pokemon does have some contributing factors to his inclusion but being part of the starter trio is not one of them. Same goes for Charizard and Greninja, they were not chosen for the only reason being to have the starter trio. We already know that Greninja was picked as the Gen 6 newcomer because of his design. Not his type. Charizard is self-explanatory.

 

[The Light Music Club]

You know now that I think abut it, Dark Pit just might be like Game and Watch in Pac-Man's trailer. I'm not 20% on him being playable

 

[Sonic Poke]

Why is it that every time I come here, the subject is Dark Pit? lol

I'm still thinking he will be an alt for Pit. If Lucina is any indication, different characters can make it as alternate costumes, different names, voices, outfits and so on included. Dark Pit will be playable, he just won't be a separate character. Just like how Lucina was meant to be.

As for the supposed boss on Palutena's Temple... It could be anything. Not necessarily Dark Pit. I've made a post about this on the Dark Pit thread, so check that out if you're interested.

I don't know guy...
Sakurai bias wouldn't leave his final smash be The Three Sacred Treassures... He took off Lucina's tipper...
I may be wrong anyway.

 

[Kenith]

I figured if I waited a while we wouldn't be discussing Dark Pit anymore...

*sigh*

 

[Xenorange]

And again, I point you to the fact that it's tied to PT. Ivysaur had the luxury of A) Being a part of a popular starter trio (its line is still very popular overall), and B) Being a part of the trio mechanic. Sceptile doesn't have either luxury, it's not a part of a trio, so it doesn't have to be added for the sake of typing/balance like Ivysaur did, and it lags behind most Pokémon characters. If PT still existed and he had Charizard and Greninja, it'd be a different story, but as of right now it's something that may not even matter with the character gone.

If Sakurai considers it important to have a representative of each type in the starter trio, who do you think he'll choose?

 

[BluePikmin11]

How would you react if Sakurai made Dark Pit a completely unique character?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

The thing in the pic actually says...

"Remaining HP : 100"

Nothing about a boss anywhere.

Could mean a lot of things really.

What did the debug of Brawl and Melee look like?

 

[~Krystal~]

How would you react if Sakurai made Dark Pit a completely unique character?

I would really be ok with this. Seriously. If Dark Pit turns out as a unique addition, I would support it even though I'm not big on Kid Icarus.

 

[Pizzanigs]

If Sakurai considers it important to have a representative of each type in the starter trio, who do you think he'll choose?

...? That's an "if". Sceptile is only being considered for speculation because of a ridiculous notion that all three Starter Pokemon types must be represented. Sure, IF we were to get a Grass starter, Sceptile would likely be it, but I HIGHLY doubt Sakurai's worried about having a Grass Pokemon in the game, lol.

 

[Kenith]

How would you react if Sakurai made Dark Pit a completely unique character?

And not Lucina?

I wouldn't be happy, I'll say that much.

 

[Xenorange]

...? That's an "if". Sceptile is only being considered for speculation because of a ridiculous notion that all three Starter Pokemon types must be represented. Sure, IF we were to get a Grass starter, Sceptile would likely be it, but I HIGHLY doubt Sakurai's worried about having a Grass Pokemon in the game, lol.

Explain to me why it's ridiculous to represent an important part of pokemon.