Character Discussion Thread

[Deleted member]

Pretty much the prime example of what I meant

Except....Shadow's not a dark copy of Sonic. He's only designed that way.
This is a prime example of a dark copy of Sonic.

Aside from that, Shadow doesn't even fit your description.
He didn't betray his creator; his creator was Prof. Gerald. Black Doom was only his source of DNA.
He may have stopped Gerald's post-mortem plan to wipe out humanity, but that was due to his memories of Maria and what the Professor stood for before he went insane and tampered with Shadow's memories.
Speaking of which, Shadow was never evil to begin with. He was essentially brainwashed to exact Gerald's revenge on humanity.

They could... but given that Lucina and Marth have the same stance...

If even Lucina doesn't have her own idle stance I doubt Dark Pit of all characters will.

Except that Lucina has the same stance only because she was designed as a Marth alt.
And bear in mind that Mario and Dr. Mario had different idle stance and animations.

No, I'm not colorblind, but thanks for the aggressive attitude.
No, because Luigi moves differently and has different proportions. One of the main complaints about the 3DS version in the demos is that people are actually getting lost while battling on more hectic stages like the Golden Plains, having a fight between Green Pit and Green Pit isn't going to help that one bit. Mind you I'm not using it as a counterargument to his inclusion as I don't doubt Sakurai's bias, but I still think it'd be very poor design. Some characters are best left as alternate costumes with a unique voice over and name, which is very possible to do, and Dark Pit is the prime example of one that should stay as that imo.

You can tell different proportions zoomed out on a 3DS, but you can't tell color?
Is THAT what you're telling me?

 

[Kenith]

You can tell different proportions zoomed out on a 3DS, but you can't tell color?
Is THAT what you're telling me?

Are you forgetting that characters on the 3DS have outlines for the sole purpose of distinguishing proportions?

 

[GunGunW]

All I'm going to say is that if they bring in Dark Pit as his own character, they better bring back Falco, Wolf, Lucas, Ganondorf, and even Dr. Mario because otherwise it's probably not going to end well.

 

[Kenith]

Dark Pit isn't comparable to Shadow or Metal Sonic.

He's comparable to Sceptile, if you get what I mean.

 

[Rockaphin]

What, are you colorblind?

Must be hard for you to tell who's Mario and who's Luigi with a zoomed out 3DS screen, eh?

He might not be, but there are other players that may have this problem. Especially Metal Pit and Metal Dark Pit. I mean, I could probably see the difference, but I cannot account for everyone else playing Smash. Especially on the 3DS.

 

[Autumn ♫]

Dark Pit isn't comparable to Shadow or Metal Sonic.

He's comparable to Sceptile, if you get what I mean.

I don't at all...

 

[augustoflores]

playing on the 3ds in general makes everything easier in general... you can literally click on yourself so there's this obnoxious red box over your character...
you can even distinguish yourself so far as playing against/with an ally/opponent with the same character and the same palette because of that big obnoxious rectangle over you.

though it is a user driven function, it is still there for those who need it.

the only thing that matters really, is being able to distinguish it on the Wii U version because we don't have that personal user experience.

 

[GunGunW]

Except....Shadow's not a dark copy of Sonic. He's only designed that way.
This is a prime example of a dark copy of Sonic.

Aside from that, Shadow doesn't even fit your description.
He didn't betray his creator; his creator was Prof. Gerald. Black Doom was only his source of DNA.
He may have stopped Gerald's post-mortem plan to wipe out humanity, but that was due to his memories of Maria and what the Professor stood for before he went insane and tampered with Shadow's memories.
Speaking of which, Shadow was never evil to begin with. He was essentially brainwashed to exact Gerald's revenge on humanity.



Except that Lucina has the same stance only because she was designed as a Marth alt.
And bear in mind that Mario and Dr. Mario had different idle stance and animations.

You can tell different proportions zoomed out on a 3DS, but you can't tell color?
Is THAT what you're telling me?

Since someone brought up the point of metal pit and metal dark pit I actually do agree with you on this since it would be the same thing if there were just two metal regular pits, it would still be very hard to tell the difference.

 

[HugoBoss]

Why do people think Dark Pit is such a given?

 

[Staarih]

At this point, I don't really care if Dark Pit is playable, an alt costume, a boss or nothing at all, I'm tired of the discussion around him haha! He pops up everywhere.

 

[Kenith]

Why do people think Dark Pit is such a given?

The same reason people think Sceptile is such a given, I would imagine.

 

[HylianHeroBigBoss]

Except....Shadow's not a dark copy of Sonic. He's only designed that way.

Eh close enough, i dont care about it enough to go any further into back stories. Dark alternate verions are just not something im fond of.

 

[Kenith]

I just don't see why or how they would make Dark Pit playable as a Pit clone, but not Dark Samus as a Samus clone.
Dark Samus actually has design differences from Samus and is pretty popular, but could still work as a clone.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Looking forward to Paper Mario! Kinda excited about playing as him.

 

[augustoflores]

Why do people think Dark Pit is such a given?

I personally like siding with the less likely side so I can defend it...

as long as something is defend-able, there can be a debate about it... I happen to like a healthy debate so long as there's no flaming and name calling.

as for why it's probably likely, i look to palutena's reveal as ONE of the reasons.

@ Kenith because sakurai cares about his creations first

 

[Rockaphin]

Looking forward to Paper Mario! Kinda excited about playing as him.

He's not confirmed or anything, but yes, I'm hoping this is hinting towards his inclusion!

 

[Kenith]

Looking forward to Paper Mario! Kinda excited about playing as him.

Was he confirmed?

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

I just don't see why or how they would make Dark Pit playable as a Pit clone, but not Dark Samus as a Samus clone.
Dark Samus actually has design differences from Samus and is pretty popular, but could still work as a clone.

I'm pretty adamantly opposed to "Dark (protagonist name)"s as their own separate characters, and even I would prefer Metroid Prime being her own character over the literal clone.

 

[HugoBoss]

I personally like siding with the less likely side so I can defend it...

as long as something is defend-able, there can be a debate about it... I happen to like a healthy debate so long as there's no flaming and name calling.

as for why it's probably likely, i look to palutena's reveal as ONE of the reasons.

@ Kenith because sakurai cares about his creations first

Not exactly, he attempts to be humble. Dedede was supposed to be in 64 and Melee, but he along with Meta Knight were delayed until Brawl. He also made Kirby worse.

But seriously, that't all that is going for him? Sakurai "bias"?

 

[BKupa666]

A list of clones that I would prefer before Dark Pit that have as much, if not more importance to their larger series:
--Paper Mario, Dry Bowser
--Funky Kong, DK Jr.
--Impa, Toon Zelda
--Baby Mario Bros.
--Basically any member of Team Star Fox or Star Wolf
--Raichu, Pichu
--Ninten
--Black Shadow
--Roy
--Any other Pikmin captain

Probably forgetting some others. But yes, nitpick as many individuals on that list as you choose, but Dark Pit getting the nod before all of them reeks of Sakurai bias to me.

 

[Kenith]

You know what, I would actually be okay with Dark Pit being included.

Just so I'd finally have someone to hate more than the Miis.

 

[augustoflores]

was hoping my tongue smiley showcased that i was joking..............

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Was he confirmed?

Nope, but it seems odd that Paper Mario would get a stage, yet not feature the man himself. Especially considering that we already have 3D Land, the Golden Plateau, and Rainbow Road as stages.

Of the Mario characters so far shown, one could make the case of Rainbow Road being Rosalina's, Peach's, and Bowser's home stage, as they are playable there. Yet the closest thing to a representative of the Paper Mario stage is regular Mario, and he already has two, three 3DS stages to himself. Not sure if Mario really is so greedy, myself.

 

[Rockaphin]

I guess my problem with Dark Pit comes from the fact that I do not really have an interest in Kid Icarus. I supported Medusa the most, then Hades. I'm fine with Palutena, but I became sick of her and her speculation.

Now with Paper Mario, I grew up loving those games and I've wanted to see his inclusion since his debut so of course I'd love to see him. Not only that, but he has the potential to be a very unique/diverse character.

Maybe if I played Uprising, my opinion on Dark Pit would change; but with characters like Medusa and Hades floating around, I don't see that happening.

 

[False Sense]

Looking forward to Paper Mario! Kinda excited about playing as him.

That is, assuming he gets in.

 

[Morbi]

Why do people think Dark Pit is such a given?

I can illuminate my thought process and see if that explains why some of us find him feasible. Remember, this is a lot of circumstantial evidence that; in my opinion, when compiled, makes him a logical and ideal choice. First of all, let us get this out of the way, he is promienntly featured in Kid Icarus Uprising and he originated in Smash Brothers, this is relevant as the character has merit and Smash relevance. Secondly, he has similar evidence to Shulk which is predominantly comprised of tweets, one of these tweets alludes to the notion that Sakurai is quite aware of Dark Pit's popularity (which is not necessarily material). Kid Icarus is a series that is being treated as a front-running series on par with Mario, Legend of Zelda, Pokemon, and Star Fox. Yet it is much smaller in terms of popularity, I enjoy comparing it to Fire Emblem: Awakening. Another series that was erroneously determined to have only one newcomer by the Smash community. Lucina was a last minute addition; however, that does not inherently alter objective fact as many seem to imply. The reason why I am sold on Dark Pit is more or less due to Lucina. Not that notion that she is a clone, but Sakurai's assertions would indicate that an outside force tempted him to change Lucina from a costume to a character. I theorize that this could only be a similar costume that he was developing, Dr. Mario or Dark Pit. The problem? Upon discovering that the character had a slightly different move, he might have figured that the character warranted the slot (cited reason for battle-records). Dark Pit seems plausible based on the unprecedented cliff-hanger at the end of Palutena's trailer. One might proclaim, "but that deconfirms him." They do not understand that he was merely confirmed to be in the game, to what extent, we can only presume. It is common to assume that he will return to his prior role, as a palette, or in this case, a costume. The problem with that issue for us Dark Pit supporters is that it directly contradicts Sakurai's criteria that was established during Lucina's reveal (provided below). There are subtle differences between the two characters.

No character is "given" but his chances are, in some cases over-estimated, and in others severely under-estimated. There is an overt lack of balance.

However, even though Lucina shares her physical stats and techniques with Marth, the characteristics of their attacks differ. When two such similar characters function in an even slightly different manner, I give them a separate spot on the roster since that will affect battle records and whatnot. In that sense, you could say she was very lucky to join the fray!

 

[augustoflores]

Not sure if Mario really is so greedy, myself.

 

[Deleted member]

I still wonder why NSMB2 isn't a Wario game...

Anyways, apparently Palutena's Temple has a boss. Your guess on who it could be is as good as mine

(Skip to 0:25)

Guess someone forgot to turn off the Debug menu

 

[Rockaphin]

I still wonder why NSMB2 isn't a Wario game...

Anyways, apparently Palutena's Temple has a boss. Your guess on who it could be is as good as mine

(Skip to 0:25)

Guess someone forgot to turn off the Debug menu

Hopefully Medusa or Hades.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

He might not be, but there are other players that may have this problem. Especially Metal Pit and Metal Dark Pit. I mean, I could probably see the difference, but I cannot account for everyone else playing Smash. Especially on the 3DS.

I'm no professional on this area, but white and black are nuances, so are colorblind people really affected by that?

You can tell different proportions zoomed out on a 3DS, but you can't tell color?
Is THAT what you're telling me?

Why yes, I do think proportions are easier to make out when it comes to small pixels, especially if the outline is enabled.

Let's steer this the other way, because we're missing my original point here. Can you by any means make Dark Pit sound appealing to someone who has never touched and never plans to touch KI:U? I mean, I've never played Awakening, but I still love Lucina despite being so cloney as she is, she has a cool design. Dark Pit just has zero appeal in comparison to other potential clones, that's what I'm getting at here, unless you're part of a niché group that has played a game that only has ~1/10 of the popularity of Smash you're simply not going to care for or like Dark Pit at all, I don't see how anyone who's unfamiliar with him would love a palette swap taking its own spot.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Why do people think Dark Pit is such a given?

This is one of the main reasons if you didn't know or watch the Palutena trailer:

 

[Loungemen]

Hopefully Medusa or Hades.

I'm actually betting it's both Medusa or Hades decided at random. I mean, both are clearly big enough to be the size of the stage itself.

 

[Morbi]

I'm no professional on this area, but white and black are nuances, so are colorblind people really affected by that?



Why yes, I do think proportions are easier to make out when it comes to small pixels, especially if the outline is enabled.

Let's steer this the other way, because we're missing my original point here. Can you by any means make Dark Pit sound appealing to someone who has never touched and never plans to touch KI:U? I mean, I've never played Awakening, but I still love Lucina despite being so cloney as she is. Dark Pit just has zero appeal in comparison to other potential clones, that's what I'm getting at here, unless you're part of a niché group that has played a game that only has ~1/10 of the popularity of Smash you're simply not going to care for or like Dark Pit at all, I don't see how anyone who's unfamiliar with him would love a palette swap taking its own spot.

I doubt his appeal has much of an influence on the decision to be honest, clone characters are inevitable and people hate some of the most beloved Nintendo characters (in a Smash context, of course) because of their perceived clone-status (Toon Link, Wolf). It is doubtful that Sakurai considers the standard rules when adding clone characters. Most of the Melee clones are good examples, no one wanted or needed Pichu, per se. We got him.

 

[Kenith]

Wait, I see it now.

"Dark Pit, did you come to crash my party?"

-Scene takes place on a stage resembling Palutena's Temple

- Palutena's Temple stage has a boss.

- A stage of that size would be perfect for an airborne enemy character to wander around without being too much of a hindrance

Well, I guess we know what Dark Pit is now.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I doubt his appeal has much of an influence on the decision to be honest, clone characters are inevitable and people hate some of the most beloved Nintendo characters (in a Smash context, of course) because of their perceived clone-status (Toon Link, Wolf). It is doubtful that Sakurai considers the standard rules when adding clone characters. Most of the Melee clones are good examples, no one wanted or needed Pichu, per se. We got him.

Like I've said in my past three posts I'm not arguing that Sakurai won't include him, I'm saying that he's a bad pick even by clone standards.

 

[AEMehr]

Why do people think Dark Pit is such a given?

He is a given.
As an alternate costume at the very least.

But the question is whether he will be more than that.

 

[Morbi]

Wait, I see it now.

"Dark Pit, did you come to crash my party?"

-Scene takes place on a stage resembling Palutena's Temple

- Palutena's Temple stage has a boss.

- A stage of that size would be perfect for an airborne enemy character to wander around without being too much of a hindrance

Well, I guess we know what Dark Pit is now.

That is certainly one of the many possibilities, and presuming that Ridley is a stage-boss, it would not be the first time that he alluded to one. However, there is no objective proof to rationalize this notion, so we do not "know" what Dark Pit is as of current.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Wait, I see it now.

"Dark Pit, did you come to crash my party?"

-Scene takes place on a stage resembling Palutena's Temple

- Palutena's Temple stage has a boss.

- A stage of that size would be perfect for an airborne enemy character to wander around without being too much of a hindrance

Well, I guess we know what Dark Pit is now.

I don't think a trailer like that will ever happen, that is equivalent into having Ridley being showcased as a stage boss for a trailer.

 

[Morbi]

The same reason people think Sceptile is such a given, I would imagine.

Dark Pit is a grass-type that completes an arbitrary fan pattern? Dark Pit is a starter Pokemon featured in an upcoming 3DS title that just so happens to be a remake? "Muh recency that is not so recent?" I am not understanding the correlation in the slightest.

 

[False Sense]

I don't think a trailer like that will ever happen, that is equivalent into having Ridley being showcased as a stage boss for a trailer.

He's not suggesting a trailer for that. He's just analyzing what we know of Palutena's trailer and Palutena's Temple and coming to a conclusion.