Character de-confirmations ahead...Spoilers?

[The rAt]

...Is it just me, or is that post really terrible and without any relevant point?

It's just you.

I have to say, people's take on the Cell-Link trophy confuses me to no end. Don't get me wrong, I don't think that it deconfirms him as a character, I just can't follow people's logic. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like poeple are saying that because he is in his PJ's it's probably not a Playable Character trophy (okay, that makes sense to me), and because of that he's more likely to appear as a Playable character (wait, what?).

PrettyGoodYear's link to the G.Dorf trophy certainly demonstrates that it's possible for characters to appear as trophies before their release. However, let's deconstruct this for a moment. If what is being said is true and Cell-Link appears as a PC (and that this is not a PC trophy), and assuming the three trophy (Adventure/SE, Classic, All-Star) standard continues, that means Cell-Link has four trophies in Brawl.
Now, I find that more than a little hard to swallow. Of course, it's possible that the three-trophy-standard has gone down in Brawl, but I seriously doubt the Classic Mode is going anywhere, which leaves us with a minimum of two. However, to be frank, I find it somewhat hard to believe that, if we are indeed treating every Link as unique, an extraneous trophy (that is, not PC trophy) for either Cell or Twilight Link would be anything other than overkill.

Now, I don't think we know the mind of Sakurai well enough to definitively rule out Cell-Link based on any of this. But by the same token, I think we have no business toting this trophy as evidence of his inclusion, either.

On a completely different note, I think including Cell-Link in his PJ outfit would actually by an interesting and unique way to avoid the inevitable Link comparisons. After all, anyone who played through Wind Waker a second time should be used to it, and it would certainly emphasize his uniqueness from the other Links (the criteria I hear most often as the reason he should be included).

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

The fact of the matter is that he is not commonly seen in this appearance.

I mean, even with WW Link, he has two games - this entity does. Why would Sakurai use this uncommon design from one game instead of the common design of one game and the only design in another?

And, in the same commercial, we see that an extra Mario trophy exists as well.

I've never said that this is confirmation. However, it is closer to confirmation than deconfirmation.

 

[bballstar23]

It's just you.

I have to say, people's take on the Cell-Link trophy confuses me to no end. Don't get me wrong, I don't think that it deconfirms him as a character, I just can't follow people's logic. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like poeple are saying that because he is in his PJ's it's probably not a Playable Character trophy (okay, that makes sense to me), and because of that he's more likely to appear as a Playable character (wait, what?).

PrettyGoodYear's link to the G.Dorf trophy certainly demonstrates that it's possible for characters to appear as trophies before their release. However, let's deconstruct this for a moment. If what is being said is true and Cell-Link appears as a PC (and that this is not a PC trophy), and assuming the three trophy (Adventure/SE, Classic, All-Star) standard continues, that means Cell-Link has four trophies in Brawl.
Now, I find that more than a little hard to swallow. Of course, it's possible that the three-trophy-standard has gone down in Brawl, but I seriously doubt the Classic Mode is going anywhere, which leaves us with a minimum of two. However, to be frank, I find it somewhat hard to believe that, if we are indeed treating every Link as unique, an extraneous trophy (that is, not PC trophy) for either Cell or Twilight Link would be anything other than overkill.

Now, I don't think we know the mind of Sakurai well enough to definitively rule out Cell-Link based on any of this. But by the same token, I think we have no business toting this trophy as evidence of his inclusion, either.

On a completely different note, I think including Cell-Link in his PJ outfit would actually by an interesting and unique way to avoid the inevitable Link comparisons. After all, anyone who played through Wind Waker a second time should be used to it, and it would certainly emphasize his uniqueness from the other Links (the criteria I hear most often as the reason he should be included).

Actually, it is possible to get more trophies for one character than the three standard ones that you are awarded after completing the single player modes:

 

[DeuceBlade]

I think this actually raises Chibi robo's chances as AT or playable imo.

 

[assassinX105]

I really got to ask, WTH is the point in adding WW link anyways? he is just a chibi version of link, there is no point in have two links again

 

[EricShiznit]

...

I think everyone understands that the WW Link trophy is not the only WW Link trophy, otherwise he'd be in the tunic.


What we don't know is whether all of the playable characters in the game are linked to the subspace emmisary. If they are, WW Link will not be playable, because obviously, there cannot be two Links in the storyline. Of course there could be in some Zelda story, but this is Smash Bros' franchise and there is no logical place for two versions of the same character, different games or not.

 

[Kabyk-Greenmyst]

Personally, I think people are saying WWLink is deconfirmed is because their train of thought is, "There's no way Sakurai would reveal a characters trophy before the actual character, he must not be a PC."

You're all forgetting we've ALREADY SEEN WWLink. We saw his sticker, along with Tingle in his WW-design, whose been confirmed as an Assist Trophy.
THIS IS NOTHING NEW.

WWLink still has a chance, let's not crush my dreams and jump the gun on this one.

 

[The rAt]

The fact of the matter is that he is not commonly seen in this appearance.

I mean, even with WW Link, he has two games - this entity does. Why would Sakurai use this uncommon design from one game instead of the common design of one game and the only design in another?

And, in the same commercial, we see that an extra Mario trophy exists as well.

I've never said that this is confirmation. However, it is closer to confirmation than deconfirmation.

I understand what you mean about his appearance, but that iconic appearance is one of the major things that he shares with other Links, and thus one of his biggest hindrances. While I seriously doubt that Sakurai would include him as a PC looking like that, I personally would find it a happy medium.
Regarding the confirmation/deconfirmation thing, he's being shown as a trophy that we all agree won't mirror his appearance in the game. Paint me a skeptic, but that strikes me as a bad sign.

Regarding the multiple trophy thing, well, I'll put that below, since it applies to what bballstar23 said as well.

Actually, it is possible to get more trophies for one character than the three standard ones that you are awarded after completing the single player modes:

You guys, that's my point exactly. There most definitely WILL be more Link trophies. Except that since Link consists of several characters named Link (unlike both Samus and Mario, who are each one person), it makes no sense to include another trophy theme after a Link that already has several PC trophies when there are several Links with no trophies to show them. That is to say, I would expect to see an OoT Link trophy, a Majora's Mask Link trophy, an 8-bit Link trophy, or a LttP Link trophy, before I would expect to see another Cell-shaded Link trophy, let alone one which is specifically tied to Wind Waker, out of which his moveset would be undoubtedly based if he was included.
That is why this trophy makes me lean more towards the deconfirmation side than the confirmation side. Though I guess, in the end, because it can be read so many ways, its practically speaking sort of a neutral sign.

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

If cel-shaded Link were included, it would be no stretch of the imagination to expect an extra trophy for him.

 

[The rAt]

If cel-shaded Link were included, it would be no stretch of the imagination to expect an extra trophy for him.

I disagree.

 

[Johnknight1]

I really got to ask, WTH is the point in adding WW link anyways? he is just a chibi version of link, there is no point in have two links again

Because the only two moves he uses in the game that Brawl Link uses is the spin attack and sword plant, and he only uses the swordplant at the end of Wind Waker. He could have one of the most unique movesets in smash yet. DOn't even get me started. Better then everyone having the same dAirs, uAirs, and nAirs. And his story, character, moves, equipment, AND even fight style are completely diffrent.

We have Twilight Princess Link as a trophy, but that's the only confirmed "Link" trophy outside of Island Clothing Link. Like people are saying "it's closer to a confirmation then a deconfirmation." Like I said, it could be a "semi-confirmation."

 

[Fawriel]

The Zelda series has been divided into a darker series and a cartoonier series. Proper representation is appropriate. Two characters who are not the same person can meet in SSE even if they happen to look similar. The pajamas might be a simple alternate costume ( which is a little wonky considering Wario, but I recall that someone claimed Samus started looking different with some color change ), and thus the trophy might just as well be one of his main trophies, and besides all that we don't even know whether the trophies will be anything like the ones in Melee at all, what with the move descriptions and stuff.

 

[GimR]

Check out this video: http://wii.com/jp/movies/smashbros-movie1/

Starting at 4:06: They show trophies of some potential characters. Does this mean they are out?

Come on man. Melee had 3 trophies for each playable character.

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

From your perspective, the perspective of one who likely prefers the realistic Link, there's no point.

500,000, that's the number of copies sold of Twilight Princess in Japan.

900,000-1,000,000, that's the number of copies sold by Phantom Hourglass in Japan.

Japan does not like realistic Link nearly as much as they do cel-shaded Link.

 

[DGK all day]

whos the guy pointing his finger in the video?

Also im sorry for my retared post i was a little drunk

 

[silver777]

The trophy does nothing but talk about the clothes. If this were the only trophy of WW Link it would more likely describe the begining of his quest in LoZ TWW. But it didn't.

 

[Fawriel]

The trophy does nothing but talk about the clothes. If this were the only trophy of WW Link it would more likely describe the begining of his quest in LoZ TWW. But it didn't.

 

[shinhed-echi]

From your perspective, the perspective of one who likely prefers the realistic Link, there's no point.

500,000, that's the number of copies sold of Twilight Princess in Japan.

900,000-1,000,000, that's the number of copies sold by Phantom Hourglass in Japan.

Japan does not like realistic Link nearly as much as they do cel-shaded Link.

You forgot one little detail though...

The reason why Phantom Hourglass sold better was because people in Japan are more portable oriented. Did you know that 1/4 of Tokyo population owns a DS?

It's not that the game sold well because it was better. It sold well because there are more people owning a DS than people owning a Wii.

At least that's one of the reasons. Regardless of wether it was good or not.

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

Wind Waker sold more than Twilight Princess.

 

[The rAt]

The Zelda series has been divided into a darker series and a cartoonier series. Proper representation is appropriate. Two characters who are not the same person can meet in SSE even if they happen to look similar. The pajamas might be a simple alternate costume ( which is a little wonky considering Wario, but I recall that someone claimed Samus started looking different with some color change ), and thus the trophy might just as well be one of his main trophies, and besides all that we don't even know whether the trophies will be anything like the ones in Melee at all, what with the move descriptions and stuff.

I dunno, man. You know I respect your opinion, I just don't see it. Hands down the Cell-shading graphics are a part of Zelda, and hands down there should be content in Brawl to reflect that. But, personally, I don't see the need for another tri-force of courage bearing, green clad, sword-weilding, Zelda-saving hero, no matter WHAT medium he's presented in.

However, that was most certainly not my point. My point was that, objectively, this trophy thing can be read a lot of different ways, many of which make him more likely, many of which make him less likely. The truth is, we don't know, and we're taking shots in the dark. That's all I've been trying to say.

From your perspective, the perspective of one who likely prefers the realistic Link, there's no point.

500,000, that's the number of copies sold of Twilight Princess in Japan.

900,000-1,000,000, that's the number of copies sold by Phantom Hourglass in Japan.

Japan does not like realistic Link nearly as much as they do cel-shaded Link.

Dude, please don't tell me what my perspective is, it's patronizing, and it has very little to do with what I've been saying, not only because the perspective of a person has no relevance against the validity of their claims (an idiot who says that grass is green is just as right as a genius who says the same thing), but because if the scenarios were reversed (Cell-Link was the standard Link, and we were looking at TP Link in his farm clothes), I'd be making the same points.

Regarding the popularity of Phantom Hourglass, yes it is popular. The Nintendo DS also makes up more than a quarter of Japanese console sales (last numbers I saw it was actually closer to half, but I'm sure it's gone down since then), so it would be necessary to weight those numbers by console sales. Also Twilight Princess sold on two consoles, effectively splitting their demographic. Also, Twilight Princess and Phantom Hourglass employed completely different game mechanics which appeal to completely different people. Finally, Twilight Princess had the disadvantage of being overhyped over the course of a several-year delay, over which time many people either built up insanely high expectations or just got sick of waiting.

So, yes, Phantom Hourglass is popular. And yes, Twilight Princess was not the sales juggernaut of the likes of OoT that some people expected it to be. And yes, there are far more contributing factors to this than the animation style.

But none of this really matters. Because I wasn't trying to make an arguement about whether or not Cell-Link SHOULD get in. I have my opinion on that, and regardless of whether or not anyone here respects or agrees with it, it is valid. Many people here hold the opposing opinon which, whether or not I agree with them, deserve respect and are valid. Neither side is going to change their opinion, so I don't really see the point in arguing about it.
What I was trying to acheive was playing devil's advocate to a perception that this trophy means he WILL get in. Maybe he will. Maybe he won't. We don't know. That's what I'm saying.

And for the record, if Cell-Link DOES get in, I'll certainly offer my congatulations those of his fans who are not jack***es or fanboys. Just because I disagree with someone doesn't mean I can't respect them, if I recieve that same respect in return.

Now can we please move out of the territory of making this a stylistic Zelda preference arguement and back to a discussion on the implications of the trophies found in that video?

 

[Kabyk-Greenmyst]

From your perspective, the perspective of one who likely prefers the realistic Link, there's no point.

500,000, that's the number of copies sold of Twilight Princess in Japan.

900,000-1,000,000, that's the number of copies sold by Phantom Hourglass in Japan.

Japan does not like realistic Link nearly as much as they do cel-shaded Link.

To help this, look at the quantity of WW Link games vs "realistic" Link games in recent years.
We have Twilight Princess, and possibly the Seasons games if you REALLY want to stretch it that far, and not counting the old LoZ games remade for GameBoy Advance.
As far as Cel-Shaded Link is concerned, we have every game after Majora's Mask minus the three above: Wind Waker, PH, 4 Swords, Minish Cap.

And don't try SSE as a defense, as we all know by now, that the planets in the Nintendo Universe are thrown into chaos, having WWLink meet TP Link is easily possible. It's not like time boundaries haven't been crossed before with Smash (F-Zero/StarFox, advanced civilizations, meet LoZ and Mario, not so much advanced).

 

[silver777]

=D

I found the translation, Here it is:

"Casual Wear Link" Trophy
It's Link in casual wear. He's wearing a cut-and-sewn V-neck shirt with a lobster design on both front and back. His orange capri pants coordinate his outfit. He's known as the fashion leader among the residents of Outset Island. Compared to his well-known green outfit, this one is more leisurely.
[Gamecube] The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker

 

[Kabyk-Greenmyst]

This became a Wind Waker Link discussion, let's move this elsewhere, or change topic.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Two Link's meet...

It's not that farfetched, it's been done before a lot.

LoZ: Four Swords?
SSB
SSBM

Technically it's not a problem. And not a problem of canon... But it's just a tad unoriginal.. Even though I'd love for a younger speedier version of Link to be back.

 

[Weltunter]

Two Link's meet...

It's not that farfetched, it's been done before a lot.

SSB
SSBM

Technically it's not a problem. And not a problem of canon... But it's just a tad unoriginal.. Even though I'd love for a younger speedier version of Link to be back.

SSB & SSBM didn't feature a story mode like the SSE

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

And it doesn't even matter. They're two individual Links - heck, WW Link LEARNS of the original Link. There is nothing to suggest that he couldn't meet him.

 

[0211]

...

I think everyone understands that the WW Link trophy is not the only WW Link trophy, otherwise he'd be in the tunic.


What we don't know is whether all of the playable characters in the game are linked to the subspace emmisary. If they are, WW Link will not be playable, because obviously, there cannot be two Links in the storyline. Of course there could be in some Zelda story, but this is Smash Bros' franchise and there is no logical place for two versions of the same character, different games or not.

Actually, I can think of a multitude of ways they could dignify there being multiple Links.

 

[AsbestosBlatant]

PROTIP:

Playable characters have trophies and stickers of themselves, too. Stop speculating so badly.

 

[0211]

To help this, look at the quantity of WW Link games vs "realistic" Link games in recent years.
We have Twilight Princess, and possibly the Seasons games if you REALLY want to stretch it that far, and not counting the old LoZ games remade for GameBoy Advance.
As far as Cel-Shaded Link is concerned, we have every game after Majora's Mask minus the three above: Wind Waker, PH, 4 Swords, Minish Cap.

And don't try SSE as a defense, as we all know by now, that the planets in the Nintendo Universe are thrown into chaos, having WWLink meet TP Link is easily possible. It's not like time boundaries haven't been crossed before with Smash (F-Zero/StarFox, advanced civilizations, meet LoZ and Mario, not so much advanced).

That actually reminds me.

I think it'd be amazing to have a Ice-Climbersesque double team of Links based on the Four Swords series as a playable character.

 

[0211]

=D

I found the translation, Here it is:

"Casual Wear Link" Trophy
It's Link in casual wear. He's wearing a cut-and-sewn V-neck shirt with a lobster design on both front and back. His orange capri pants coordinate his outfit. He's known as the fashion leader among the residents of Outset Island. Compared to his well-known green outfit, this one is more leisurely.
[Gamecube] The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker

From where?!

I want to read more!

MUST ABSORB ALL BRAWL INFO!!

 

[The rAt]

=D

I found the translation, Here it is:

"Casual Wear Link" Trophy
It's Link in casual wear. He's wearing a cut-and-sewn V-neck shirt with a lobster design on both front and back. His orange capri pants coordinate his outfit. He's known as the fashion leader among the residents of Outset Island. Compared to his well-known green outfit, this one is more leisurely.
[Gamecube] The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker

Source?
If valid, this definitely suggests another trophy, and I can see how people would think it makes Cell-Link more likely. But first, source?

This became a Wind Waker Link discussion, let's move this elsewhere, or change topic.

Quoted for truth. Whether or not Cell-Link should be in (a completely different arguement from whether or not he CAN be in, since Sakurai has demonstrated he can pretty much do what he wants) is a totally different topic than how this trailer, and transitively, Link's trophy, affect our character predictions regarding Brawl.

 

[0211]

SSB & SSBM didn't feature a story mode like the SSE

No, but they do share the trait that Brawl continues: the characters are TOYS!!!!


By the way, you should pay attention to several Mario games in which Baby Mario and Mario exist concurrently.

 

[T-major]

OH SHI...! it's Krystal! despite the fact that she is popular and highly requested, it seems that she's deconfirmed by an insignificant aspect of collecting in Brawl!...

... seriously though...

STICKERS MEAN NOTHING!!!

you know why? because they are SO INCREDIBLY EASY to add, that it's not even funny! all they are, and I'm being quite literal about this, is official art/sprites that have been rendered, then coded so you can move them around. they take SO LITTLE EFFORT, that it's ridiculous to think that they mean a character deconfirmation!