Character Archetypes

[Daymaster]

DISCLAIMIER: Characters can and are played in a variety of ways, and in some cases in more then one in a single match. This thread's purpose is to label characters based on what style BEST suits them.

So recently I have been looking at the main Fighting Game Community to see what they do differently than us and what we can learn from that. In general, it seems, the FGC has a MUCH better established concept of character archetypes or play styles. This being established seems like it would make figuring out how a character works and what to focus on significantly easier when picking up a new character. So, I decided to look in to each character in Smash 4 and try to find a common set of archetypes. My findings are as follows:
There are three absolute basic archetypes for characters: Aggressive, defensive and balanced. These can be divided in to an additional nine categories: Pressure-based aggression, Rushdown-based aggression, Grappling, Half-Grappling, Spacing-based Balanced, Zoning-based Balance, Alternation (alternating between two other styles as the match calls for it), Zoning-based Defensive and Hit-and-run. In my eyes influenced by the conversation below, these characters fall in to these categories as the image below suggests.

So, I've come here to discuss and further this. Am I missing any archetypes? Are the characters where they belong? Let me know below. Also here's the shareable link for the current list: https://smashboards.com/tiers/#4,10...7.Zone\n#43,21,48,37,57,12,33.0,0,0,4,4,4,8,8
Changes will be made as justified suggestions are made or oblivious mistakes are pointed out.

 

[FamilyTeam]

Mario arguably can be considered a grappler, with how much his toolkit is geared towards getting grabs and, of course, the reward he gets with each individual one.

 

[MagicSchlong]

What is press / half / space? I thought space is zone? How Gabon graple if not reliant on grab?

 

[Routa]

For Miis I would say that Brawler is a Half-Grappler, Swordspider is a Spacing-based Balanced and Gunner is either Zoning-based Balanced or Zoning-based Defensive.

 

[Envoy of Chaos]

Falco is not a zoner in Smash 4 his zoning tools aren't good. Im not really sure what you'd call him but I can say it isn't zone based

I'd also say Ness is more of a half-grappler than anything, his grabs lead to alot of his damage and then his most effective killing method. Mario like said above is much more of offensive based grappler than a character that what's to create space.

Just a few thoughts

 

[Litany]

I personally think Ganon is more of a spacing-type character rather than a grappler, as he doesn't have the luxury of fishing for grabs or Flame Chokes like the others in his category. A lot of Ganons agree (I think...) with playing many MUs by spacing with D-tilt, Jab, and aerials as he actually has the range to do so.

 

[MagicSchlong]

I personally think Ganon is more of a spacing-type character rather than a grappler, as he doesn't have the luxury of fishing for grabs or Flame Chokes like the others in his category. A lot of Ganons agree (I think...) with playing many MUs by spacing with D-tilt, Jab, and aerials as he actually has the range to do so.

This! Ganon use side b but gameplay not revolve around getting it like Dk

 

[Crystanium]

What is press / half / space? I thought space is zone? How Gabon graple if not reliant on grab?

Press is pressure. Half is half-grappling. I don't think that's really necessary, though. Spacing and zoning are different. Berathan Games explains very well.

• Spacing is when you move your character or place your attacks in ways that keep your character safe.
• Zoning is when you use your attacks, or threat of attacks, to limit your opponent's spacing options.

Keep these in mind. I think Samus is both a spacer and zoner.

 

[Daymaster]

As everyone has been saying, I placed Ganondorf and Ness in the wrong category. I'll update the OP as things like this come up. If there are not any objections I will place the Miis in the categories suggested by Routa. The reason they were not in there the first time is that I have never in two years played against a competent Sword Fighter or Gunner long enough to really get a feel for them. Also, if not a Spacer, where should Falco go?

 

[Litany]

Half-grappler maybe? He does get decent mileage off of grabs. I could also see him being in a bait and punish category if there iwasone.

 

[Daymaster]

Half-grappler maybe? He does get decent mileage off of grabs. I could also see him being in a bait and punish category if there iwasone.

I would agree about him being Bait and Punish, but as far as I can tell he would be the only one in it (all others that could fit in to it fit better in to others, like Corrin, Pac Man and Toon Link), and it's bad enough that Sonic is all alone in Hit and Run. He does get a lot of grabs, and that is one of the few things about him that could even remotely be considered defining (he is just a meh character in literally every other area), so I don't see why Half Grappler would not work. I'll wait for any objections, but if none come I'll change it.

 

[MagicSchlong]

Press is pressure. Half is half-grappling. I don't think that's really necessary, though. Spacing and zoning are different. Berathan Games explains very well.

• Spacing is when you move your character or place your attacks in ways that keep your character safe.
• Zoning is when you use your attacks, or threat of attacks, to limit your opponent's spacing options.

Keep these in mind. I think Samus is both a spacer and zoner.

Ok thanks for clarification. I did not know zone and space different.

 

[Daymaster]

Another thing that I've been thinking: Is it possible that some archetypes generally counter others? I main Sheik and thus only know enough about her MUs to really say anything on the subject and she alternates between three different styles, making it difficult for me to say (although she does happen to have like 65-35 MUs versus the entire Grappler category). Those of you that main other characters, could you tell me if there are any categories that your character does well against most of?

 

[Galaxeon]

doesn't feel like a zoning-based character, I'd say spacing suits her more.

is more of an alternation between spacing and zoning depending on the match-up, rather than pure spacing.

I don't think this has something to do with match-ups, I think it's very character dependent. Any type of archetypes can shut down the other two, in theory, but some characters have more tools to do so. Robin/Duck Hunt or Roy/Diddy for example, weren't gifted the same way...

 

[Possom]

Another thing that I've been thinking: Is it possible that some archetypes generally counter others? I main Sheik and thus only know enough about her MUs to really say anything on the subject and she alternates between three different styles, making it difficult for me to say (although she does happen to have like 65-35 MUs versus the entire Grappler category). Those of you that main other characters, could you tell me if there are any categories that your character does well against most of?

I don't think Sheik vs Luigi or Sheik vs DK is 65-35.

 

[Daymaster]

I don't think Sheik vs Luigi or Sheik vs DK is 65-35.

Luigi can't do anything in Neutral to Sheik because it's so easy to punish his attempts to get around Needles, and Sheik's issue with killing completely disappears when fighting him as his recovery just screams "Bouncing Fish me! I'm an easy target!". Luigi also has a really hard time getting combos on Sheik as it's incredibly obvious when he is going in for a grab, Nair, etc. Luigi's only real large advantage is that his Nair is an amazing combo breaker. As for DK, I probably exagerated a bit but it's still not a good MU, mainly due to his size and weight making him combo food. DK does get a lot more openings to attack then the other Grapplers, though, as his frame data isn't half bad and the Sheik has to be REALLY careful when spacing attacks because of DK's great grab range.

 

[Possom]

Luigi can't do anything in Neutral to Sheik because it's so easy to punish his attempts to get around Needles, and Sheik's issue with killing completely disappears when fighting him as his recovery just screams "Bouncing Fish me! I'm an easy target!". Luigi also has a really hard time getting combos on Sheik as it's incredibly obvious when he is going in for a grab, Nair, etc. Luigi's only real large advantage is that his Nair is an amazing combo breaker. As for DK, I probably exagerated a bit but it's still not a good MU, mainly due to his size and weight making him combo food. DK does get a lot more openings to attack then the other Grapplers, though, as his frame data isn't half bad and the Sheik has to be REALLY careful when spacing attacks because of DK's great grab range.

I think Sheik beats both of them don't get me wrong, I just don't think it's as bad as 65-35.

 

[v3ga]

is not a rushdown character, is not a pressure character, is not a rushdown character, should be in rushdown, should be in alt, fits better in zone, should be alt

 

[Red-Villain]

I definitely like the concept. But I think it would be better to establish definitions for each archetype and get consensus from character boards about which character fits what role the best. Moreover, some characters may fill more than one role.

Regarding your draft- I'd say D3 is more of a zoner than a grappler.

 

[Daymaster]

is not a rushdown character, is not a pressure character, is not a rushdown character, should be in rushdown, should be in alt, fits better in zone, should be alt

Can you please explain the decisions? I am not neccesarly objecting to any of them besides Mega Man (he can be played really aggressively at high percents if he has his Metal Blade to great effect), but I just would like to know why before I move characters.

I definitely like the concept. But I think it would be better to establish definitions for each archetype and get consensus from character boards about which character fits what role the best. Moreover, some characters may fill more than one role.

Regarding your draft- I'd say D3 is more of a zoner than a grappler.

Not a bad idea. Should we start fleshing out definitions here? Also I agree that characters often fit more than one role, I'm just trying to put them in whichever roles fit them best.

 

[v3ga]

Can you please explain the decisions? I am not neccesarly objecting to any of them besides Mega Man (he can be played really aggressively at high percents if he has his Metal Blade to great effect), but I just would like to know why before I move characters.

Sure. is a bait + bunish character as well as a half-grappler. is a mix of space,half-grapple, and pressure - fitting better in alt. can obviously be played as a rushdown character (Welcome to FG), though a rushdown will get punished hard. He actually fits more as a spacing character. has been a rushdown character since his inception, I guess he fits in pressure but those categories are virtually the same thing (the same could be said for ). is a mix of space and pressure. is a character thats literally made of projectiles, you even quote the importance of him having metal blade out. is the same story as . Additionally is more of a spacer and bait+punish than he is zone.

 

[Daymaster]

Sure. is a bait + bunish character as well as a half-grappler. is a mix of space,half-grapple, and pressure - fitting better in alt. can obviously be played as a rushdown character (Welcome to FG), though a rushdown will get punished hard. He actually fits more as a spacing character. has been a rushdown character since his inception, I guess he fits in pressure but those categories are virtually the same thing (the same could be said for ). is a mix of space and pressure. is a character thats literally made of projectiles, you even quote the importance of him having metal blade out. is the same story as . Additionally is more of a spacer and bait+punish than he is zone.

These make sense. So is MK more Bait and Punish or Half-Gapple? Also, the difference between rushdown and pressure, to my understanding, is outlined by these two quotes from a guide for beginners that I am working on:

Pressure-based Aggression is the purest style of aggression. It is all about constantly being in your opponent’s face, moving around at high speed and poking at them with fast attacks from a short distance. The goal of this style is to get the opponent to use unsafe attack or defensive maneuver out of panic and punishing (attacking while the target is unable to do anything, such as during the cooldown of an attack) them with as much damage or a kill as possible. Playing this way requires a lot of patience and a strong up-close neutral game (see fundamentals) from the player to work well. Characters with fast movement and good range on physical attacks are best suited for this style.

This style is characterised by the sheer amount of focus put on to speed and catching your opponent off-guard. While playing this way you will either be just out of your opponent’s range looking for patterns in their defensive walls or mistakes in offense of their own. To play this way you will need mastery over several movement techniques we will be going over later, such as SHFFing, Dash Dancing, Perfect Pivoting and more, as well as the ability to analyze and quickly react to your opponent. Characters that are good at this possess traits such as fast aerials, a fast dash and good range on at least three options out of a dash.

Correct me if I'm wrong about what these mean.

On an unrelated note, the number of spacers is getting to be a little high. There is probably two diferent sub styles of it, but I can't think of them. Can anyone offer insight on this?

 

[v3ga]

These make sense. So is MK more Bait and Punish or Half-Gapple? Also, the difference between rushdown and pressure, to my understanding, is outlined by these two quotes from a guide for beginners that I am working on:

Correct me if I'm wrong about what these mean.

On an unrelated note, the number of spacers is getting to be a little high. There is probably two diferent sub styles of it, but I can't think of them. Can anyone offer insight on this?

Between the two, I would put B&P of higher importance than Half-Grapple for MK. Ah, I see the difference - in that case, yes, I would unequivocally put fox in rushdown. He is such a fast mobile character that requires those extra micro-movements and frame traps to be played to full potential.

 

[v3ga]

[double-post]

 

[Daymaster]

Ok, so if we are going to make a Bait and Punish catagory, who should be in it besides Falco and Metaknight? Possibly Lucas and Sonic? And would it be considered defensive or balanced?

 

[Possom]

Ok, so if we are going to make a Bait and Punish catagory, who should be in it besides Falco and Metaknight? Possibly Lucas and Sonic? And would it be considered defensive or balanced?

I think Falcon should be. I don't think he can actually apply as much pressure as someone like Fox, Falcon is really trying to get you to do stuff and then punishing it most of the time.

 

[v3ga]

Ok, so if we are going to make a Bait and Punish catagory, who should be in it besides Falco and Metaknight? Possibly Lucas and Sonic? And would it be considered defensive or balanced?

, and could easily fall into B&P.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Zard is definitely Bait and Punish.

 

[Litany]

Ganon is fairly close to B&P I think. Also, reading through the past posts and seeing der Rabe's point, I think I agree. There are quite a few characters that fit into multiple categories and can be played almost equally well with either playstyle.

 

[Daymaster]

Ganon is fairly close to B&P I think. Also, reading through the past posts and seeing der Rabe's point, I think I agree. There are quite a few characters that fit into multiple categories and can be played almost equally well with either playstyle.

The characters can be played in multiple styles, but if the direction the Melee meta is going right now is any indication every character probably has one style that allows them to win most easily. If characters are disputed, we should probably go that character's social or Q&A board to ask those players what they think.

 

[Daymaster]

Ok, I've decided that there is no reason for the Spacing category to even exist. Literally every character relies on spacing very heavily during Neutral and thus every character could be argued to be a "spacing" character. So, where should those characters go?

Also I asked and Ganon, according to the QA thread, is Bait and Punish.

 

[JayZee1700]

Ok, I've decided that there is no reason for the Spacing category to even exist. Literally every character relies on spacing very heavily during Neutral and thus every character could be argued to be a "spacing" character. So, where should those characters go?

Also I asked and Ganon, according to the QA thread, is Bait and Punish.

As a Ganon player (secondary), there's very few true combos outside of 65ish%, so the rest of his neutral is either hard reads off of mix-ups or B&P.

 

[Rhus]

This is a little bit of an unpopular opinion but...

I have always thought of Fox as Bait (and punish) or Pressure. Sure he runs at you a lot, but he camps a majority of the cast and forces approaches on (virtually) everyone. He focuses on frame traps and punishing mistakes with his excellent neutral. Fox's disadvantage is pretty rough and his movement and attacks, while virtually the fastest of all characters, are not disjointed and have poor range. Combine that with the fact that Fox has trouble on shield and he tends to play more "in-out" than he does Rushdown. I think bait is more appropriate.

I could expand more but I think most people have completely labelled Fox as a Rushdown character at this point.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I have always thought of Fox as Bait (and punish) or Pressure.

He kind of is.

Then again, these categories often overlap.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

I think this topic needs to have a disclaimer to let people know that characters aren't one-dimensional and can be played in a variety of styles.

Mario is a grappler/rushdown character, but he can be a zoner by use of FLUDD, Bair Ftilt Dtilt and Usmash spacing, and some fireballs.

 

[Daymaster]

I think this topic needs to have a disclaimer to let people know that characters aren't one-dimensional and can be played in a variety of styles.

Mario is a grappler/rushdown character, but he can be a zoner by use of FLUDD, Bair Ftilt Dtilt and Usmash spacing, and some fireballs.

Thanks, I added the disclaimer.

At pretty much every point in a match some character will try to build a zone, so if their gameplay isn't mainly entirely based around it they should not be put in Zoner. So what is Mario more of: Half-Grapler or Rushdown?

 

[Baby_Sneak]

Thanks, I added the disclaimer.

At pretty much every point in a match some character will try to build a zone, so if their gameplay isn't mainly entirely based around it they should not be put in Zoner. So what is Mario more of: Half-Grapler or Rushdown?

I say rushdown, since everyone is a semi-grappled in this game.

Maybe I should've said camp or something, but Mario has legitimate options to do so. FLUDD+fireball isn't a joke and can really DO something. He has projectiles; not many characters have STRONG CONTROLLING perojectiles. It's not his main, but he can do it.

Not many can legitimately camp.

 

[Flamegeyser]

Bayonetta in Pressure? Maybe I'm not understanding what pressure is meant to mean but aggressive is probably the worst way to play her. I don't know if I'd call her defensive, but she's more bait and punish. Also, I know Shulk has Speed Monado, but I don't think rushdown quite fits him. He's more of a spacing balanced/defensive char.

 

[InfinitySoul]

Here is my list of characters archetype (pleas tell if anything is missing)

Aggressive :
Sheik, Fox, Pikachu
They have decent or poor range but compensate with high speed and strong frame datas. Which they use to consistantly pressure the opponent.



Close combat :
Mario, Meta knight, Zero suit samus, Ryu
They have a close range and struggle to get in, but if they get to that range, they are extremly advantaged and get massive rewards from landing a hit.



Whiff punish :
Cpt falcon, Diddy kong, Sonic, Bayonetta
Like Aggressif and Close combat, whiff punish likes to go in. But lacks frame data to push buttons consistently. So they must add fake outs and baits to their pressure games. Once the opponent commits, they will use their speed and greater range to close the distance and punish.



Swordman :
Cloud, Marth...
With their long swords and disjointed hitboxes, they have a massive range advantage over the rest of the cast. But they lack frame speed and close combat options. They want to keep the opponent at the tip of their sword.



Walls :
Rosalina and Luma, Zelda, Lucario, M2
They play are like swordsmen where they want to keep the opponent right outside of their range circle. But they trade disjoint and mouvement speed for better frame datas : quicker and safer moves.



Zoner :
Villager, Megaman, Link, Robin
Want to keep their opponent far away with projectile. Would only go in if they can convert a projectile hit or conditionned their opponent.



Heavyweight :
Bowser, Donkey kong...
They have big body and big arms. They have some of the best range in the game.Any trades will result in their favor and their move apply big shield push back to compensate the big lag they have.



Grapplers :
Bowser, Donkey kong...
Grabs (and command:grabs) are a major part of their gameplay du to it's range and how rewarding it is for them to land a grab.

Also every characters have multiple archetypes (primaries and secondaries) Here is a doc with the list.
Please feel free to read and critizise it.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cTCb00kbmFIXc6rMYjHq_Bkvatn3QaIq-Ue9mMwV2wo/edit?usp=sharing

 

[Dre89]

Press is pressure. Half is half-grappling. I don't think that's really necessary, though. Spacing and zoning are different. Berathan Games explains very well.

• Spacing is when you move your character or place your attacks in ways that keep your character safe.
• Zoning is when you use your attacks, or threat of attacks, to limit your opponent's spacing options.

Keep these in mind. I think Samus is both a spacer and zoner.

Spacing isn't a playstyle, it's a skill, like having good DI or downloading your opponent's habbits. Every character implements it regardless of playstyle.

Zoning is the playstyle of spacing with hitboxes (whether it be projectiles or normals) to deny space, normally the space they need to access to get to you.