Not sure why no one has really noticed this yet... but samus does have chain grabs in this game, and they are quite easy to pull off, not much actual data to give you guys yet, but on fastfallers you get a chain grab on them when they are over 100, and medium weight class you get one until about 20% which leads into an up smash.
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Chain Grabs
- Thread starter Litt
- Start date
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
samus can cg in melee too. they work about the same.
ShadowGanon
Smash Lord
I know you said that you didn't have much data to give us, but could you at least tell us what throw to use? lol.
It's not reliable in the sense that you have to land the grab first, in a match-up where the opponent is very difficult to grab, then you have to be really on point with your reaction times. But it's a cg because you have a guaranteed grab follow-up to a grab, and if you are able to do the above well, then it's certainly a viable thing to do.
It is a thing in Melee. I know this because I've played Samus, and discussed playing her for eight years. You didn't even know Samus had a cg in Melee. Who's the inexperienced one?
ShadowGanon
Smash Lord
You know, I'm pretty sure this thread wasn't made so you two could chew each other out. It was made to discuss Samus's chain grabs in Project M. So let's do that instead of tearing each others figurative heads off over who is the more experienced player. 
MM me at apex you scrub, thats all I have to say, ill let my game do the talking. As for the chain grab, the only way you can do it is with down throw.
Kati
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2010
- Messages
- 1,471
Considering the topic creator chewed out the second post... I don't think he ever intended this thread to be one based on discussion.You know, I'm pretty sure this thread wasn't made so you two could chew each other out. It was made to discuss Samus's chain grabs in Project M. So let's do that instead of tearing each others figurative heads off over who is the more experienced player.
wow
The mechanics of samus's grab in PM 3.0 is much faster and better at grabbing opponent while still in the air, because while samus IN THEORY had a chain grab in melee, it was too slow and laggy to actually be viable... that is why I do not consider samus to have a chain grab. I did intend this to be a discussion, but an unhelpful addition of someone talking about a useless chain grab in melee is not the best way to spark discussion of the possibility of using a possible and effective cg in PM.
Thane of Blue Flames
Fire is catching.
KLit, I have no idea what your problem with phootbag is, but it's getting old and really annoying to watch.
Try to discuss things in a civil manner.
Try to discuss things in a civil manner.
ShadowGanon
Smash Lord
KLit, please ignore those two ^.
Lordling and JerkPhil, please don't make this go any further.
KLit, does the chain grab only work on certain characters or does it pretty much work on the entire cast?
Lordling and JerkPhil, please don't make this go any further.
KLit, does the chain grab only work on certain characters or does it pretty much work on the entire cast?
I have no frame data to back any of this up, and I wont be able to start experimenting with who this chain grab works against better than any of you guys until I am back at school on the 21st after apex. After like 100% it works on spacies, but I have not tested how long the chain grab will go for, most of the cast that are not fast fallers, I have been able to chain grab them to about 20% minimum, with the bigger their body, the easier the chain grab like against bowser. I created this thread go get the idea out there for others to test, because I have no human opponents for the next few weeks, best of luck shadow ganon in figuring out this part of samus's metagame.
ShadowGanon
Smash Lord
So I did a small amount of testing, and here are a few results. Samus's d-throw CG works at these percentages on these fast fallers.
(Note: I didn't test to see when these chain grabs would stop working past certain percentages because I was a little lazy and didn't have much time to perform such extensive tests.)
Fox - 100% and up
Falco - 60% and up
Wolf - 60% and up
Roy - 60% and below
The timing is a bit tricky on the re-grab because, if you use the z-button to grab like I do, it'll sometimes shield instead of grab. I'll post a few more test results when I find the time to conduct more tests. Feel free to correct me if any of these percentages are wrong.
(Note: I didn't test to see when these chain grabs would stop working past certain percentages because I was a little lazy and didn't have much time to perform such extensive tests.)
Fox - 100% and up
Falco - 60% and up
Wolf - 60% and up
Roy - 60% and below
The timing is a bit tricky on the re-grab because, if you use the z-button to grab like I do, it'll sometimes shield instead of grab. I'll post a few more test results when I find the time to conduct more tests. Feel free to correct me if any of these percentages are wrong.
I have to say the percentages are really useful, as for the shielding it just means you are pressing the z button a little too soon because you are still in the lag from the down throw. What helps is if you hold your control stick in the direction your opponent DIs, so when you start moving from holding your control stick, you will no longer shield from pressing Z again.
Chevy
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2014
- Messages
- 736
I don't think any of these are true chain grabs. I noticed the one on Roy and the other middleweights fairly early, but they can just DI away to avoid it, same for +100% on spacies. So far I haven't seen any actual chain grabs, just re-grabs on bad DI.
Chain grabs are just regrabs... chaining grabs together.... and I'm pretty sure spacies can't DI far enough away until the mid 140-50 range
Strictly speaking, I think Chevy is excluding regrabs that can be DI'd out of 100% of the time with proper DI. Melee Sheik's cg is a cg because even if you DI behind Sheik, she can still regrab.
Just my two cents.
Chevy
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2014
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- 736
"A chain grab, also referred to as a chain throw, refers to a series of grabs and throws that the victim cannot escape."
-SmashWiki
If they can reliably DI out of it, then it's not a chain grab. And spacies can DI away as soon as they can be re-grabbed. I tested this. Someone pretty much has to really goof to get re-grabbed by Samus, as they generally shouldn't ever DI in anyway.
They can DI away and you can still regrab them.... are you an idiot or something?... Sheik in melee can miss a grab because they misread their opponents DI and or do not react quick enough... you can react quick enough and they can not DI far enough away to get out of samus's grab until the mid 150s.....
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ES Lite
The Real Slim Shady
If the players of the game reacted and played perfectly, 100% of the time, the person getting chain grabbed wouldn't be able to escape until they reach that threshold percentage. Likewise, they will escape 100% of the time if the grab in question wasn't a chain grab by definition. Haven't tested samus's supposed chain grab on spacies but if it were ever possible to DI far enough to not get re-grabbed, (at the percentile range you described), then its not a chain grab.
Chevy
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2014
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- 736
They can not DI, and you can grab them, or they can DI in and you can grab them. If they DI far enough away you cannot. Samus is still in endlag from the throw before she can even feasibly chase them. I tested this against Wolf, Fox, and Falco at 100% to 130%.
Its because the threat of DIing correctly when the mix up of bair or charge shot off an upthrow forces opponents to change up between no Di if they guess wrong between the two throws.... Also in melee the regrab was too difficult with samus, so its just a viable option now. As for chain grabs, samus does have them on mid weights until like 22-30%
GeZ
Smash Lord
The term chain grab is still used in this situation as it's very literal (terminology wise). It's chaining grabs. All grabs can be DI'd (minus some command grabs I think) so making the distinction between chain grabs and true chain grabs is a bit silly. Like Marth's low percent forward chain grab. It's only a "true" chain grab at very low percents. You can still chain grabs together at higher percents by anticipating their DI and punishing it. Getting super technical with this term in particular is iffy.
Chevy
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2014
- Messages
- 736
I just think that there's a huge difference between something that's guaranteed, and having to read DI. The thread is about chain grabs, and chain grabs can't be DI'd out of, causing misinformation to be spread unless noted that it's DI dependent. It's fine if we discuss DI dependent re-grabs, but concise terminology is important for this. (As important as talking about video game tech is)
MonkUnit
Project M Back Roomer
can we at least see a video of this CG? if it is as potent as people have said, i would have assumed more people would be using it by now.
GeZ
Smash Lord
But most chain grabs are DI dependent. There's an infinitesimal amount of guaranteed chain grabs and most of those stop being guaranteed after a couple reps. And DI dependence can vary by stage as well depending on platform layout and nature of the chain grab. I don't think chain grab is used as exclusively as you're saying it is.
ES Lite
The Real Slim Shady
For the sake of technicality, the term "chain grab" should only be used for the grab sequences that players can't DI away from. Anything else is usually referred to as a pseudo-chain grab of some sort. The term deserves the exclusivity considering how far we've come within the metagame; there are times where not knowing your "supposed chain grab" can actually get DI-ed away from can cost you the game.
GeZ
Smash Lord
But my confusion comes in at some guaranteed chain grabs depending on the stage. Like Ganon can Uthrow chain grab spacies at varying percents for a good while. But if the stage has platforms then it's not a chain grab at all as the spacie can just land on a platform. Is guaranteed chain grabs stage dependent or is it only guaranteed if it's stage independent? And then how many stage independent chain grabs are their? I can only think of a few.
This is why we often say "Marth can't chain grab spacies on Battlefield." We're literally saying the regrab is no longer guaranteed. Chain Grab means that, with proper DI response, the regrab is guaranteed. So since Sheik's dthrow leads into a grab whether you DI in or out, as long as you don't land on a platform, it is a chain grab, but since Samus's dthrow can be escaped with proper DI regardless of whether there is a platform, it is not a true cg. You can manipulate DI to improve the possibility that your opponent will DI into the regrab, but that doesn't make it a true cg. It makes it a DI trap.
GeZ
Smash Lord
Fair. Fine. My mistake.
pizzacato
Smash Ace
I think we can all agree that no one expects a "regrabbing" Samus, and that PM has made it much MUCH easier.
Kaysick
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2014
- Messages
- 343
So this is what we know so far for regrab chains?
Kaysick
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2014
- Messages
- 343
Oh no, double post. I have some info.
So far, for what I've been testing on a Level 9 Wolf on FD, you can chain grab uthrow at 0% until what 80+, which at that point you can just dthrow>Fsmash. I have no clue if a real player can really get out of it.
EDIT: Well I saw the Wolf jump out of it, so I guess this is possibly scrapped.
These are all against Lvl9 CPUs, not real players
You can dthrow chain Lucas from 0 to about 50%+
Since Roy and DK are the same fall speed, even though DK is a bigger body, you can dthrow chain grab the same %s.
If you get the timing right, you can dthrow chain DDD till possibly 80%+
Sadly, this is as far as it goes. Marth is the next for fall speeds and you cant really get a regrab.
So far, for what I've been testing on a Level 9 Wolf on FD, you can chain grab uthrow at 0% until what 80+, which at that point you can just dthrow>Fsmash. I have no clue if a real player can really get out of it.
EDIT: Well I saw the Wolf jump out of it, so I guess this is possibly scrapped.
These are all against Lvl9 CPUs, not real players
You can dthrow chain Lucas from 0 to about 50%+
Since Roy and DK are the same fall speed, even though DK is a bigger body, you can dthrow chain grab the same %s.
If you get the timing right, you can dthrow chain DDD till possibly 80%+
Sadly, this is as far as it goes. Marth is the next for fall speeds and you cant really get a regrab.
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Pending more rigorous DI testing: Poor Lucas just can't catch a break.