Event - CEO 2014 CEO 2014 Rulesets for Melee/Project M

[CEOJebailey]

So do we stick with the APEX ruleset from earlier this year, did everyone agree/enjoy or disagree with them?

Should a "CEO" Ruleset be created with maybe a change or two?

 

[Theftz22]

Make a change or two. I've been ******** for a while about how the apex rule set has no clause about the freeze glitch or master hand, and the only phrase about stalling is within a clause about wobbling and is ambiguous on whether stalling in general is banned or whether stalling only by means of wobbling past 250% is banned.

 

[Strong Badam]

A decent number of PM scenes (including some of the strongest) have Pokemon Stadium 1 banned due to stage redundancy with PS2. Skyloft is also commonly banned.
Some others are swapped around here and there but that's a pretty good guideline. I'd be very happy with APEX ruleset minus those two stages. I think most scenes run 2 bans in that case.

 

[lordvaati]

Make a change or two. I've been *****ing for a while about how the apex rule set has no clause about the freeze glitch or master hand, and the only phrase about stalling is within a clause about wobbling and is ambiguous on whether stalling in general is banned or whether stalling only by means of wobbling past 250% is banned.

...when the hell has anyone attempted the Master Hand glitch at a tournament....much less with a single controller?

I think that falls under"situational crap that almost never happens" like Soul Stunner and doesn't need an official rule.

 

[GotRest?]

A decent number of PM scenes (including some of the strongest) have Pokemon Stadium 1 banned due to stage redundancy with PS2. Skyloft is also commonly banned.
Some others are swapped around here and there but that's a pretty good guideline. I'd be very happy with APEX ruleset minus those two stages. I think most scenes run 2 bans in that case.

Yeah, there's a lot of ongoing debate on tournament legal stage list for PM and not a lot of consensus. I think someone should organize a vote of top players.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

It's generally agreed that the Apex stagelist is suboptimal. PS1 is a pretty glaring issue. Dracula's Castle and Distant Planet were both banned as well but Apex didn't have doubles, and those two stages are usually doubles stages at a lot of P:M events. DCastle is even a counterpick singles stage sometime. So not copying the Apex stage list directly would be a good idea.

 

[DrMcNugget]

PM should be the apex ruleset but with skyworld/skyloft banned.

melee should just be the apex ruleset.

 

[Theftz22]

...when the hell has anyone attempted the Master Hand glitch at a tournament....much less with a single controller?

I think that falls under"situational crap that almost never happens" like Soul Stunner and doesn't need an official rule.

The difference is, master hand actually can happen under the current ruleset, but soul stunner requires a red shell and can't happen.

 

[N00B64]

APEX rules didn't have project M doubles rules, (assuming there will be doubles) could we have warioware, FoD, yoshistory, and greenhill banned and replaced with distantplanet, rumblefalls, dracula's castle and mmaaayyybe norfair for doubles ruleset?.

 

[lordvaati]

IIRC fountain was only banned in Melee dubz due to lag issues, so do those still exist in P:M?

 

[N00B64]

IIRC fountain was only banned in Melee dubz due to lag issues, so do those still exist in P:M?

Not about Fountain but I know skyloft had lag issues for me when playing doubles on with even one alt costume when 3.0 came out (any other stage needed 2 alt costumes to start lagging even slightly)
PM has alot more viable strong big characters like bowser and ike. I would think small stages for doubles would get crowded and kills would be way too easy for the big guys especial with help from a teammate for setups.

 

[Empyrean]

IIRC fountain was only banned in Melee dubz due to lag issues, so do those still exist in P:M?

FoD doesn't lag anymore for doubles. Some tourneys have in fact had the stage legal.

 

[Strong Badam]

APEX rules didn't have project M doubles rules, (assuming there will be doubles) could we have warioware, FoD, yoshistory, and greenhill banned and replaced with distantplanet, rumblefalls, dracula's castle and mmaaayyybe norfair for doubles ruleset?.

only Yoshi's Story is bad in dubs, the rest are fine.

 

[phish-it]

Will there be teams for Melee and PM at this? I don't see any confirmation on this so far.

 

[Nautilus]

The apex ruleset for PM was basically the way it was for the sake of simplicity in such a large tournament. With that in mind, I think it warrants a rethinking. PM1 and Skyloft are really questionable There's even arguments that could be made for including Drac's Castle. Nofair or Metal Cavern. Imo keeping it the same but removing Skyloft and PM1 is the way to go.

 

[Hylian]

A decent number of PM scenes (including some of the strongest) have Pokemon Stadium 1 banned due to stage redundancy with PS2. Skyloft is also commonly banned.
Some others are swapped around here and there but that's a pretty good guideline. I'd be very happy with APEX ruleset minus those two stages. I think most scenes run 2 bans in that case.

I don't really understand why anyone would ban PS1 for redundancy. That's like banning FoD and Battlefield because they both have three platforms. The platform height difference between the stages makes a big difference for characters like Samus/Marth and the transformations make PS1 better against characters that need room to run around(falcon for example). Those are some pretty huge differences in high level gameplay, banning for redundancy doesn't make any sense.

 

[Strong Badam]

Your analogy is laughably weak. The only working analogy is if you have Battlefield and another stage that is Battlefield that randomly transforms into 3 different stages that would individually be banned, which is clearly stupid.

 

[Hylian]

Your analogy is laughably weak. The only working analogy is if you have Battlefield and another stage that is Battlefield that randomly transforms into 3 different stages that would individually be banned, which is clearly stupid.

I mean..sure my analogy was weak but that wasn't the meat of my post which you completely ignored.

Also, what you are saying isn't in line with your reasoning of the stage being banned. You said it was banned for redundancy which doesn't make since as it's *very* different from PS2 considering the platform height and stage transformations.

 

[Strong Badam]

The stage transformations make it "different" in that it makes it "objectively worse for competitive play," so I'll give you that.

Platform heights are barely different, Samus can still do her missile stuff. I'll ask you this: If PS1 didn't transform, would you want it to be legal? Because ATM the fact that it transforms just makes it even less legal on top of being negligibly different from PS2.

Not that I plan to get anywhere with someone who thinks Kongo Jungle 64 should be legal <_<

 

[Hylian]

Samus can't do her missile stuff on PS2 though last time I tried it.

Also the transformations are not objectively worse for competitive play with the wall infinites being removed from PM. They are very different yes and introduce a dynamic element in match-ups that I personally find awesome *especially* with the wall infinites being gone. I guess I just have an old school mentality when it comes to stages.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Skyloft and Skyworld are very solid Counterpick options for a lot of characters and should not be banned just because some players don't seem to like them. Skyworld is a really good Snake stage, for example.

 

[Nautilus]

I really like Skyworld as a Ness player, Lordling.

Out of the Apex stages, the only one I truly dislike is Pokemon Stadium 1. It being in above Nofair or some such is weird to me.

 

[Strong Badam]

Samus can't do her missile stuff on PS2 though last time I tried it.

She definitely can; the timing is different (later) and stricter but it's definitely there.

Skyworld's an awesome stage. Skyloft, not so much. Metal Cavern is a better stage than Skyloft is IMO. If you want uneven terrain, go for that.

 

[Dark Sonic]

I support PS1 if only because of the delicious Marth f-smash tippers.

And with wall infinites removed and windmill not being a thing I don't even mind the transformations. The grass and water formations are actually kind of neat stages, and even though the fire and rock transformations are still kinda bad they're...playable. I wouldn't dare put it as a neutral stage with all the better options but I think it's fine as a counterpick.

Skyloft wouldn't bug me so much if the platform were lower, but alas it's not. I hate that stage and if it's legal I'm pretty much always gonna spend a ban on that.

Metal Cavern I actually find kind of enjoyable in singles. I just love small stages and the uneven terrain spices things up a bit..

 

[Kati]

Samus can do pmc on ps2, but not to the same degree. A successful pmc on ps2 is slower than on ps1, and the room for error is far larger on ps2.

 

[Broasty]

I'm in support of PS1, Skyloft, and Metal Cavern. As far as Skyworld goes, every person seems to ban it along with Lylat Cruise lol.

 

[Zilyn]

I would also like to know the status of teams at CEO, has there been any major confirmation of this?

 

[-Key-]

Add Metal Cavern, please. And if it needs to replace something, replace Skyworld.

 

[Revven]

I would also like to know the status of teams at CEO, has there been any major confirmation of this?

Teams would likely be unofficial side tournaments, but don't quote me on that.

 

[-Key-]

Teams would likely be unofficial side tournaments, but don't quote me on that.

I'm pretty sure this is what I've heard as well.

 

[Revven]

I'm pretty sure this is what I've heard as well.

Jebailey just confirmed on the MIOM facebook group that teams will be there and they'll be on Friday!

 

[Baky]

Not all of us are Broomers, whats the reasoning behind banning Skyloft/Skyworld?

 

[batistabus]

A decent number of PM scenes (including some of the strongest) have Pokemon Stadium 1 banned due to stage redundancy with PS2. Skyloft is also commonly banned.
Some others are swapped around here and there but that's a pretty good guideline. I'd be very happy with APEX ruleset minus those two stages. I think most scenes run 2 bans in that case.

Sniped.

Metal Cavern is a better stage than Skyloft is IMO. If you want uneven terrain, go for that.

Double sniped.

 

[CEOJebailey]

It's becoming Crunch Time for the event guys. How does everyone feel if I stick to the EVO ruleset at the bottom of this page for Melee http://evo.shoryuken.com/additional-rules/

And what is the best suggestion for Project M rules?

 

[smashmachine]

well, I definitely don't want only grand finals being Bo5 again, but other than that sure Evo ruleset is cool for Melee

 

[Hylian]

It's becoming Crunch Time for the event guys. How does everyone feel if I stick to the EVO ruleset at the bottom of this page for Melee http://evo.shoryuken.com/additional-rules/

And what is the best suggestion for Project M rules?

I can draft you up a PM ruleset if you want. I'm at work all day today but I could probably manage to have it some time this week.

Credentials: I am in the PMBR(the people who make project m), and have been playing competitive smash since 2003. I've hosted a number of tournaments and helped with a bunch as well. You also said you liked me on facebook (My name is Jordan Fruin).

There are a lot of rulesets for PM which vary greatly depending on region, but I think I can make one most people would be happy with and that would be fairly easy to use.

 

[Dax]

It's becoming Crunch Time for the event guys. How does everyone feel if I stick to the EVO ruleset at the bottom of this page for Melee http://evo.shoryuken.com/additional-rules/

And what is the best suggestion for Project M rules?

I'm not even attending this event, but best of 3 semifinals would definitely be horrible to see again.

 

[Revven]

I think more people would be happy if WFs/LFs were Bo5 alongside Grands. Not sure if Semis could also be Bo5 but I know some Cali tournaments do it that way and it makes Semis matches more hype but I could understand time constraints when you're running multiple games. So at the very least in regards to that rule: Bo5 WFs/LFs/GFs. At the very best, Semis/WFs/LFs/GFs Bo5. For both games.

Other than that using the EVO rule set (which is basically Apex's anyway) for Melee would be fine.

 

[smashmachine]

make all of top 8 Bo5!

j/k, but do it if there's time lol

 

[CEOJebailey]

I've updated the CEO Website with rules for Both PM and Melee here http://ceogaming.org/rules

There are the same as EVO For Melee and UFGT for Project M.

I feel more comfortable sticking to 2/3 for everything except Grand Finals like EVO to get players in that same mindset since we can probably expect to see a similar top 8 at both events with top players attending both. I may change my mind on this for Winners and Losers Finals but no way can all of top 8 be 3/5, just no time if Smash wants to be featured on the main stage the same as all the other official games at CEO.

All other fighters are also 2/3 except for Grand Finals as well and with Gold Championship Belts on the line the pressure will be on to perform their best with every single match.