Celebrity Mafia: The Revenge of Elin Nordegren (GAME OVER! Did Elin get her revenge?)

[th3kuzinator]

Hey, before you go, can you put your vote on Cello?

Fixd

Cello, why have you not called Joey out on this? When July speculated that a townCello flip would leave her suspicious of the people voting you, you forcefully told her to change her stance on the matter or you would "scrutinize everything she said from that point on." However, Joey's main reason for wanting my lynch is that I am pushing for yours. Why does this deserve a different reaction than the one you gave to July?

Answer this please

 

[Clownbot]

Cello is, in fact, not playing terribly. Especially if he's scum, but the case against him is based primarily if not solely on meta.

Joey, you chided Swiss for trying to control town and you have a town read on Cello for trying to lead town. Could you differentiate the terms for me?

Once again, and this is more for the anti-Cellites than those who still think he's town: Is there a scum role that implies the absence of a cop?

 

[Clownbot]

Also, what struck you as Cello trying to lead town?

 

[July]

If I'm being lynched, do NOT be suspicious of the people that suspect me.

July, if you town, I recommend that you change your opinion. Until then, I shall be scrutinizing everything that you say.

What, why am I singled out here?

Regardless, I put my vote out having a pretty null read on you, a bit suspicious, but I wanted to see your reaction. By no means did I expect to come back and see **** had blown up like this. Anyways, I'll talk about your reaction later on.

I know exactly what you're doing. Fortunately most of town are dumb enough to never pick up on anything you say.

Why is it preferable that town stays in the dark when clearly you know what he's doing and that information could probably help town?

Well, anyway, I'm Emily Deschanel, one shot Day cop. I investigated Swiss, he's innocent.

@GERTY, July, Delvro, Dourin, rPSI, and Clownbot: Axel wants to lynch the claimed un-CCed Cop and claims to know that I am lying, and yet refuses to explain why he knows this. Vote for him until he explains. That would be @Joey too, but he's already on.

Okay, so my first thought is why would he make up that he is one shot Day cop. I get the feeling that no matter what Cello would have claimed the push for his lynch wasn't going to stop, there would just be new meta involved to explain his "scummy" behavior.

You are a hydra, and thus interchangeably he/them. Regardless, my play doesn't particularly matter. You were just using that as an excuse. The fact of the matter is:

UNCOUNTERCLAIMED COP. UNCOUNTERCLAIMED COP. UNCOUNTERCLAIMED COP. UNCOUNTERCLAIMED COP. UNCOUNTERCLAIMED COP. UNCOUNTERCLAIMED COP. UNCOUNTERCLAIMED COP. UNCOUNTERCLAIMED COP. UNCOUNTERCLAIMED COP. UNCOUNTERCLAIMED COP. UNCOUNTERCLAIMED COP. UNCOUNTERCLAIMED COP. UNCOUNTERCLAIMED COP. UNCOUNTERCLAIMED COP.

Why are you willing to lynch an uncounterclaimed cop? I'll die in due time anyway. You don't "gain" a town confirmed Swiss, you get a "dead" Swiss.

Kuz: "But a doctor is going to protect him!"

Right. Because Cop and Doctor are always in every game. If roles are ALWAYS present, then WHY are you willing to lynch UNCOUNTERCLAIMED COP?

Alright, Cello has been responding in his own way, but he's been making valid arguments at this point against his lynch and honestly all I see that keeps coming from the other side (Swiss, Kuzamune, and Axel mostly) is a lot of meta, a lot of "rawr Cello needs to die he's totally scum" but I'm really, really tired of getting pressured to vote for someone because they have meta on them. That doesn't change the fact that what I've seen so far was a pretty inactive, null Cello and now an active, town looking Cello which makes sense to me...as a PR why attract more attention and reveal all your secrets when neither you or your innocent read are suspect. Once he was suspect, it took off quickly, then it made sense to claim, it made more sense to take more active role.

Nabe is inactive, sephkuz isn't add anything whatsoever from my perspective, except some quick talk on clownbot, honestly this game is just blah; people are inactive and only having surges of information; july and delvro are great example of this.

Sorry but classes come first; I post when I get the time but I'm keeping up on the game, and I always post more at night because that is when I am on the comp doing work/procrastinating, but I'm in the game and I'm not going to go AWOL.

Oh, I see some reason behind this, but I'm wondering why you're turning to Axel for a response about my lynch. Is there something that makes him inherently town in your book? Is it that turning to Axel, a prominently town figured player in this game, that in supporting my lynch, something that you hopped on before him, would make you inherently more town looking?

Actually no, this was actually in the height of my Axel suspicions, and as I've pointed out unless Cello flips scum my scum picks still stand as Clownbot, Axel, then you. Asking Axel was to see where they stood on lynching you because they pretty much didn't address you all game, and the fact that he was okay with it, and that I suspect he is scum much more than you gave me a better feeling about you. More reads from you would help my read on you a lot more than that though.

There are 12 people in this game. It's unreasonable for there to be TWO Cops. It's even MORE unreasonable that I would claim Cop as scum without ANY indication of the absence of a Cop. Even if I DID try that, why wouldn't I claim FULL Cop? That way, I wouldn't have to clear somebody, and could demand protection.

Can anyone who is voting Cello please explain to me why this wouldn't be true? As in why would Cello have any motivation to claim one shot cop and clear Swiss as scum rather than just claiming full cop?

Voting = Pressure

Our statements were identical, why are you now defending Cello? I wanted him to answer that question, not you.

@Cello, Besides the claim bit, how you have played this game is exactly how you have played scum in past games. Specially that unvote bit. If we keep you alive, scum won't kill you or Swiss toNight as doing so will confirm one of your alignments (assuming neither of you are scum). As for the doc bit, playing probabilities, there usually are docs present in games of every size. If we were to not lynch you, who would we lynch and how would we go about confirming either of you or Swiss' alignment late game?

This is like, the first legit argument I've seen for lynching Cello. Finding a way to confirm Swiss and Cello's alignment without lynching Cello is an issue because scum can definitely take advantage of this situation, gah.

@GERTY, rPSI, Axel, Dourin, July and Delvro: Who would you prefer to lynch between Nabe and SephKuza?

@July: Take your vote off of me and choose one of Nabe or SephKuza to lynch or I'll make sure that you follow me into the grave.

Why me again? I would rather vote Nabe, Kuzamune isn't and hasn't given me a scum vibe and to be honest he's the only one who given a reason for voting you that is legitimate. I'm not voting right now though, I don't want to vote Kuzamune more than Nabe but I just feel lynching an inactive is going to get us nowhere, that's a last resort in my mind.

Swiss and Axel's cases against Cello are invalid to me. It's a lot of meta, a lot of pressuring town to vote the obvscum choice with ever-changing reasons but with an emphasis on "I just want him dead", like this:

D ie.

and that's just not enough. Cello, you've also been pressuring me to vote how you like, I'm not convinced you are scum so my vote is off you for now but I'm also not going to vote the options you gave me right now.

Kuzamune, like I said you are the only one who I felt had legitimate reasons for voting Cello; talk to me, tell me very clearly what he has done scummy this game, why I should vote for him, and who his scum buddies could be. And please, please no meta, that's getting us nowhere.

 

[Cello_Marl]

So lol, I'd appreciate it if people would leave it to the mod to prod me and not contact me themselves. Thanks. I'll be in to catch up asap.

^This is a very interesting piece of information and I expect both Nabe and UNKNOWN INDIVIDUAL(S) to use it to their best advantage.

Holy ****, scum can't do that? Man, we should just let everyone lead town that way we can weed out who's scum and not.

Scum-Cello can't. As in, I literally cannot do it. I do not have that ability as scum.

Joey, you say any lynch at this moment is better than Cello's to avoid a NL. However why me specifically? Cello, why have you not called Joey out on this?

I don't remember him saying that. He said that your lynch was better than mine. And I happen to agree, even if you replace my name with anyone else in the game.

However, Joey's main reason for wanting my lynch is that I am pushing for yours. Why does this deserve a different reaction than the one you gave to July?

July wanted to pursue people that thought I was scum when I flipped town. You wanted me to die because it would clear Swiss. What's the difference you ask? July didn't know at the time of her vote that I'm a UNCOUNTERCLAIMED COP. You DID. And you STILL WANT TO LYNCH ME. That's a BIG difference. Joey wants to lynch someone that wants to lynch an UNCOUNTERCLAIMED COP. I can't even believe that you are faulting him for that.

Also, nice way to shove your claim down everyone's throats cello. Just looks like an act of self-preservation to not get lynched toDay.

Um, yes? I would most certainly like to NOT DIE, AS A ****ING UNCOUNTERCLAIMED COP. Is that your natural reaction to Cop claims? Lynch them for acting intentionally scummy?

LOOK AT NIGHT BEFORE CHRISTMAS. HMMMMMMMMMMM I WONDER WHAT KUZ WAS, OH THAT'S RIGHT COP. AND HE ****ING CALLED HIS CLEAR SCUM, HEEERRRRRRRRP DURRRRRRRRRRR HUURRRRRRR. LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL THAT MAKES HIM SCUMMY US SHOULD LYNCH KUZ DESPITE HIS COP CLAIM OH NO LET'S NOT IT WAS ARE ON PURPOSEFULLLNESSSSSSSSSSSSSS.

Seriously?

Incorrect. Specify the posts that lead you to thinking he was townCello. Do you not agree that Dourin unvote was very OOC?

I can field this one, being Cello and all. No.

I don't particularly like people being at L-1 when I haven't read the thread.

Cuz Axel is town and Roxy is only scum upon a scumCello flip.

You did it with Nabe and Cello.

And Clown. Three scum, three scum reads.

Cello-scum means Roxy-scum...Nabe...Clown...unless I missed the note and 2 + 2 = Chair, that's 4 people.

Cello, who are my scum buddies so I can confirm them as town after you flip scum.

Until a few hours ago I would have said two of July, Nabe and Delvro, but July's caution makes me want to reconsider, and Nabe may be clearly guilty to whoever contacted him based on his future actions. Too early to tell. Probably Delvro, but not by a clear margin.

Could you possibly restrain your stupidity for a little bit? I am doing a pretty good job of not getting angry, but its getting on my nerves. You're being a prick.

How is he acting significantly different from how he acted in NBC? Why is he "stupid" instead of naive?

Cello plays smart as town, if he is telling the truth and thus is town, he is playing terribly. That, or more likely, he is scum.

NBC again. WE JUST GOT THROUGH PLAYING A GAME WHERE I COUNTERCLAIMED THE DOCTOR FOR FUN AS TOWN. AND I CLAIMED TO BE THE MASON COP. (psst, that was you)

How hypocritical can you be? You ever heard of gaining reads from other player's flips? Guess not.

At worst, this makes him in error.

When July speculated that a townCello flip would leave her suspicious of the people voting you, you forcefully told her to change her stance on the matter or you would "scrutinize everything she said from that point on."

Not quite right. I'm going to scrutinize everything that she says no matter what. It isn't exactly useful to wait until I'm dead before I start examining her posts for intent, is it? What I DID tell her was to NOT think that my Town flip means that Swiss/whoever was on me at the

 

[th3kuzinator]

July, I really have to get off this site and do some homework but just think about it this way.

Right now, if he is telling the truth, Cello is essentially a vanilla townie, since he already used his one-shot ability. He has already given us a result and can get no more because he is one shot. Not lynching him now would be a problem. For one, we would be keeping scum alive. Secondly, we would be constantly distracted every single Day with the townCello vs scumCello WIFOM that scum will surely use time and time again because they can easily get away with it. At best, it throws two players into constant doubt throughout the entire game and heavily impedes scumhunting. At worst, Cello is scum and he successfully rides this junk that HE IS UNCCD to late game. Just a bad situation in general. Now check out the spectrum if we lynch him. At best, we lynch scum gain reads on the players afraid to join his wagon and move into a powerful D2 position for town. At worst, we lynch the one-shot cop, gain reads on the players on his wagon, and confirm Swiss as town. Have Doc protect him that Night, he survives, and we move into a D2 with a confirmed townie, many reads and WIFOM-less discussion.

All Cello has done to protect himself is yell that he is unCCd and that lynching an unCCd Cop is dumb. However he is not a full fledged cop and, if he is telling the truth, has already completed his task.

Does that make sense?

 

[Cello_Marl]

@July: You weren't being singled out for attention as much as you were being corrected. Even if I had been lynched, that wouldn't have made Swiss scum (I KNOW that is the case, after all).

 

[Clownbot]

Here's something that's kind of bothering me, regarding the whole UNCCD aspect of Cello's claim.

Swiss said it would be dumb for real cop to CC, if Cello really isn't cop and there's one in this game. Kuz said that real cop would be smart not to CC. So here's my problem. You two appear to have the strongest scum read on Cello. Why are you trying to deny something that would seriously help in resolving this issue so quickly? Especially if you guys want Cello gone the most? It outs a PR? Sure it does, but is that cost not worth making us one step closer to a town win?

 

[Cello_Marl]

Secondly, we would be constantly distracted every single Day with the townCello vs scumCello WIFOM that scum will surely use time and time again because they can easily get away with it. At best, it throws two players into constant doubt throughout the entire game and heavily impedes scumhunting.

No, we wouldn't be. Leaving me alive is Town's declaration that they believe I am Town. Period. If scum wishes to leave me alive to TRY to create an illusion, then they are simply wasting their time. This is the same sort of slimy cowardice I accused you of in NBC, except there you did it to avoid responsibility for choosing between X1 and SephMasa. Here, YOU AND YOU ALONE are saying that my life creates doubt. It does not, when the issue is dealt with HERE AND NOW. Saying that scum MIGHT use a townie for WIFOM is ridiculous as a point to lynch me for BEING scum; I either am or I am not.

All Cello has done to protect himself is yell that he is unCCd and that lynching an unCCd Cop is dumb. However he is not a full fledged cop and, if he is telling the truth, has already completed his task.

Actually I've accused you of hypocrisy concerning approaching Claimed Cops.

And no matter how much you trivialize it as one point, the fact remains that I am the only claimed Cop. I truly cannot understand how you think that your play in NBC was reasonable, and then claim that lynching me here is also reasonable. It baffles the mind.

 

[Cello_Marl]

What Clownbot said.

 

[th3kuzinator]

No, we wouldn't be. Leaving me alive is Town's declaration that they believe I am Town. Period.

No, town is leaving you alive because you are riding your claim.

If scum wishes to leave me alive to TRY to create an illusion, then they are simply wasting their time.

How so? Seems like a pretty effective strategy to me.

Saying that scum MIGHT use a townie for WIFOM is ridiculous as a point to lynch me for BEING scum; I either am or I am not.

Scum pretty much will use you as WIFOM if you survive toDay regardless of your alignment. If you are scum, they wont NK you. If you are town, they dont know if your claim is legit and thus wont kill you to avoid clearing swiss. Ergo, you wont get night killed. Fact.

And no matter how much you trivialize it as one point, the fact remains that I am the only claimed Cop.

You are not a full fledged cop. Since you claimed you already used your alleged one shot ability, you are essentially a vanilla now. Lynching you gives us dead scum or a confirmed townie while keeping you alive does nothing but spread WIFOM under the assumption that you could playe well late game if town.

 

[th3kuzinator]

@Clown, I personally don't think outing a potential cop for scumCello is worth it. If everyone agrees then sure, lets see it happen. Oh wait, only one problem, we don't know for sure that there is even a cop in the game to being with.

 

[Cello_Marl]

@Kuz: Do you believe that there is a full-fledged Cop that simply is not claiming?

 

[Cello_Marl]

Ninja'd.

...

Why do you believe so fiercely that there is a Doctor, but not a Cop? HOW COULD I HAVE KNOWN IF I WERE SCUM?

You aren't answering these very basic questions. Surely you must believe the way you do for a reason. Why?

 

[th3kuzinator]

^ Absolutely zero idea.

If there is, he is being smart.

 

[Cello_Marl]

@Kuz: Assuming that I am scum, would I be trying this tactic with a powerful scum role? Specifically claiming Cop.

 

[Dooms]

Could you possibly restrain your stupidity for a little bit? I am doing a pretty good job of not getting angry, but its getting on my nerves. You're being a prick.



Hes an unCCd one shot Day Cop who used his investigation in RVS. Cello plays smart as town, if he is telling the truth and thus is town, he is playing terribly. That, or more likely, he is scum.

Either Doc is not CCing because he is smart and knows that Cello is full of bull or there is no doc in this setup. Even if he is telling the truth, he has already used hit one shot ability and is thus simply a vanilla and should only be thought of as such. Plus, his flip will give us plenty of reads & a definite one on Swiss.



Yes I can, and you still did not answer my question. Cello's meta is not subjective and I want you to show me what his town meta consists of and what posts led you to the conclusion he is town.





How hypocritical can you be? You ever heard of gaining reads from other player's flips? Guess not.



This sounds familiar. Oh wait, thats because this is exactly what you told Swiss not to do. Yet, when Cello does it, its okay.



You've used that same point over and over again and its your only one. And no, its not accurate.



Wow you really are a ****ing prick. I would say straw-manning, but that's an understatement.

/replace out

LOLJK

My feelings.

They are hurting.

I'll respond later.

 

[Clownbot]

^ Absolutely zero idea.

If there is, he is being smart.

I respectfully disagree.

 

[th3kuzinator]

At the risk of being CCd by a cop, probably not.

I could easily see a Yak, though.

@Cello yak scenario, gets a mislynch, outs cop and yaks n1 leaving town confused and distracted.

If not, probably a goon.

 

[Clownbot]

Don't forget my stuff Joey.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Would be especially powerful because it would essentially be D1 all over again exceptwith a dead townie and a player who's alignment got changed.

 

[Cello_Marl]

...

You think...that I would claim Cop...as a Yakuza? What?

...

If I "outed the Cop" as a Yakuza...THEN I'D BE DEAD.

 

[Purple]

he changes his vote all the time?

Last time i played a game with him, he wrote this huge piece about how he is prone to tunneling often.

sup with that though.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Cello I know you can argue most situations into your corner.

I agree, with the timing of your claim, its implausible, but you could have been thinking to argue your side of the story over the other claimed cop and hoped to win based on the assumption that you would get lynched the next Day if player x flipped real cop. Then you yak.

Again, implausible, but a possibility nonetheless since you asked.

 

[Clownbot]

Wait, who are you talking to and what are you talking about GERTY?

 

[Cello_Marl]

Cello I know you can argue most situations into your corner.

I agree, with the timing of your claim, its implausible, but you could have been thinking to argue your side of the story over the other claimed cop and hoped to win based on the assumption that you would get lynched the next Day if player x flipped real cop. Then you yak.

Again, implausible, but a possibility nonetheless since you asked.

I can't argue against Pure Truth, no matter what my alignment is. That's why Mentos survived NBC, remember?

You are suggesting that my plan is:

1) Claim Cop
2) Cop Counter Claims
3) Cello is not lynched
4) Cop is Yakked

How is "Cello is not lynched" merely "implausible" rather than "impossible"? If ANYONE counterclaimed me, then I'd be...dead as ****ing dead. That's pretty damn dead.

Who the hell would wait for the Cop to DIE? I've already said that I would willingly allow myself to die to a CC, but IT HAS NOT HAPPENED.

 

[Purple]

Wait, who are you talking to and what are you talking about GERTY?

joey's comment on Cello changing his vote all the time.

That's actually something he -doesn't- do.

 

[Cello_Marl]

Why are you so desperate to get me lynched that you are resorting to completely implausible scenarios, Kuz?

What about Godfather? Could I be a Godfather?

 

[Cello_Marl]

GERTY, your meta is about 7 months too old.

 

[th3kuzinator]

"At worst I will out the cop, at best I will somehow survive the Day and yak toNight" is something that could have gone through your head. I already said it was implausible. Why are we arguing about the types of mafia PR you could be, its getting us nowhere. So lets say you are not the yak and you are a goon. Are you suggesting there are bigger mafia fish to fry and thus we should go after someone else?

 

[Cello_Marl]

"At worst I will out the cop, at best I will somehow survive the Day and yak toNight" is something that could have gone through your head. I already said it was implausible. So lets say you are not the yak and you are a goon. Are you suggesting there are bigger mafia fish to fry and thus we should go after someone else?

You still aren't getting past the fact that I claimed 1-shot Day instead of normal Cop. If that was my plan, why wouldn't I have simply claimed Cop?

But, no, that is not my suggestion.

The "real Cop" can investigate me. If I'm guilty, fine. If I'm innocent, I'm town. If no Cop comes forward, then I am what I claim.

 

[Purple]

unvote

vote: dourin

 

[Clownbot]

Hahaha, ^What.

 

[Clownbot]

GERTY, if we don't go Cello toDay we're pretty much getting rid of Nabe. Or Kuzi? I dunno.

 

[Purple]

Where's Dourin clownbot?

 

[Clownbot]

What do you mean where is he? Like, as a lynch candidate?

Behind Nabe. And probably Kuzi.

 

[Cello_Marl]

Besides, what good is outing the Cop? I'd be getting myself lynched to out someone that a likely Doctor could simply protect.

 

[Purple]

What do you mean where is he? Like, as a lynch candidate?

Behind Nabe. And probably Kuzi.

yeah that's what i meant.

I'm really tired of waiting on nabe, but dourin was pretty weird early game.

 

[Clownbot]

Cello, what makes you think cop = doc in this game and vice versa? I know they're both common roles and commonly seen together in games they're in, but is that it?

 

[th3kuzinator]

and prostitute can kiss, making him a useless pr which the doc still has to policy protect while scum can just take their pic at the remaining people.