Captain Falcon remains bottom... (Falcon potential discussion thread 2)

[Wogrim]

To move him up the list we have to prove he has better matchups than other bottom-tier characters. Even if we win a bunch of tourneys, it doesn't mean anything if we can't show that we should theoretically be winning (or at least doing much better than other bottom-tier characters) several matchups. Preferrably high-tier characters.

 

[Tenki]

You do know that the point of it isn't to actually win the tourneys (though it's a +boost, especially if there are vids).

It's to expose the rest of the community to Falcon's abilities.

That means you have to like, play against as many people as possible in friendlies, get them to do good shoutouts (in other words, you convert people to "omg, they're right, we totally didn't expect Falcon to be like this D:"), and if they lose, tell them how to do better.

Videos are a plus.

It's all a matter of propaganda.

note: I lost the Diethard pic so this will have to do.

Originally posted in the Sonic boards.
Refix'd for Falcon.

Grow community support first for your character. There are a bunch of people who don't even main Sonic who have played against some of the SWF Sonic mains, and they're no longer among the ranks of people who still hold pre-May ideas about Sonic. They're the kind of people who don't just throw matchup numbers around just because of his 'low priority' or other seeming weaknesses, and they also tend to try to learn the matchup or at least are aware of his capabilities.

If Falcon truly deserves a spot higher than bottom of the bottom, then you have to show people that he can be played so that his weaknesses aren't so glaring. If you go to tourneys, play as many people as possible, play them to the point they want to leave shoutouts of what a great Falcon you are, so when someone's like "lol Falcon is 20:9000 against our character!" they'll be like "lol no, Falcon punishes this strategy hard out of shield, and his grab game is like abasdlvzx and ..." etc.

 

[camzaman]

-Isai announces a return to smash for 09!

When and where did he do this?

 

[Face124]

When and where did he do this?

Its probably not true.

 

[Wanderer7]

ummm a tier list doesn't really change a character. Cfalcon is still Cfalcon. if you enjoy Cfalcon's style, playing as falcon, you shouldn't let a list convert you. i personally play falcon and ganon for fun; REGARDLESS of tier list position. well actually i play Falcon, ALL the Zelda characters, and currently learning Samus, Falco and Sonic, for fun. a tier list isn't going to change the fact that i enjoy playing as these characters. Ike being my main, Kirby my second, why? because i like their combat style the most.

conclusion: if you wanna beat your friends, GET BETTER with Falcon. if you wanna win tournaments, go with MK. because Cfalcon has shown us his moves, and he can't get HIGHER without getting ANOTHER character (and then he says "YEESSS!").

 

[Stafy]

I'm joining alot of tourneys lately, but I'm sure online ones don't count.

I wish I had a local tourney around here. =(

 

[Sukai]

Falcon has ascended from "For Fun" to "Secondary".
I have come to really enjoy him, he faces against Diddy alot better than I expected.

http://allisbrawl.com/ladder/history.aspx?id=11439
Losses aside, my Falcon receives constant praise.

Those moves don't show themselves.

 

[Darxmarth23]

When and where did he do this?

I heard this too. Apparently, he and ken have made plans for ssbb on '09. I highly doubt it, but, honestly, from what i have seen, ken doesn't **** anymore. I doubt that if Isai comes back he won't **** like how he used to either.

And let alone, they won't ever choose falcon to play as.

 

[S8on95]

He ***** in 64 doesn't he? He should pick up Brawl quite quick. Hope he plays Falcon if this is true. (most likely won't =( )

 

[Wogrim]

Realistically, if Isai mains Falcon we'll probably go up a bit, even if his Falcon isn't better than the less-known Falcon mainers or the non-mainers like Ally who are just ridiculously good.

 

[legion598]

I had an interesting thought, falcon actually has quite a few combos but unfortunately the set ups are very situational so what we have to do is find ways to force our opponents into these combo situations. After the damage is built however falcon has no good killing options : ( so I think if we could find a combo that works at high percents that sets up any of his kill moves it will boost his abilities quite effectively. so things like this http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=215227 should give u a decent increase in power

 

[F5Hazardousdoc]

He ***** in 64 doesn't he? He should pick up Brawl quite quick. Hope he plays Falcon if this is true. (most likely won't =( )

Isai still plays 64. I've heard rumors of ken coming back to Brawl, including a few imposters... lol.

One of my names on wifi is Isai, simply because I have moments of sheer awesomeness where my falcon ascends to Steak Tier and dethrones sonic and jigglypuff.
*and that I tend to raptor boost off the edge too much XD*

 

[F5Hazardousdoc]

Double post, but this is different. For the tourney, I won't go full falcon... I'll swap to fox for MK/Falco. I lose to n00bs in those matchups.... I just can't stand it.

 

[Tim-Tim]

So you say he'll never rise out of bottom of bottom, but you say he shouldn't have been put there? what..?

who cares if he goes up.
its just a list.
Captain Falcon is a good char and we have to spend our time making his meta better and not discussing about a "list".

SHOW MA YA MOVES!

 

[SmashBrother2008]

@ Everyone wondering about the Isai-comeback thing;
http://www.youtube.com/user/sephrothken

I've seens him reply to fake vids of them playing (that should verify some authenticity). And when I spoke with him he sent me this: "Yeah we're just training and getting ready for our comeback in 2009. Isai thinks Captain Falcon is not as great as he once was, but can still do some devastating combos in Brawl. He's still getting used to him.

-Ken"

I think he's for real and it sounds like Isai may be sticking to Falcon. (any Falcon main should no matter how changed he is)

 

[Riku00]

Falcon deserves top tier any good falcon knows that and he should enter tournaments all over to prove it. my falcon is not as good as i would hope but it is decent enough for me to have mained him and still use him as a secondary to this day and forever more

 

[SaltyKracka]

Falcon deserves top tier any good falcon knows that and he should enter tournaments all over to prove it. my falcon is not as good as i would hope but it is decent enough for me to have mained him and still use him as a secondary to this day and forever more

Noobs. Why they always think Falcon is any better than bottom, I'll never understand.

 

[Wogrim]

For some reason I don't think anyone actually posts about potential in this thread.

 

[SaltyKracka]

For some reason I don't think anyone actually posts about potential in this thread.

Silly Wogrim, Falcon has no potential.

 

[Face124]

Silly Wogrim, Falcon has no potential.

Silly SaltyKracka, Wogrim didn't say he did.

 

[__V]

Why does Falcon's tier position even matter...?

 

[SaltyKracka]

Why does Falcon's tier position even matter...?

It doesn't.

Just like Falcon.

 

[Face124]

It doesn't.

Just like Falcon.

Who is placing better than Ganondorf.

 

[SSBbo]

speed, power. there's the potential.

but, moving on to what this thread is REALLY about... the SBR thinking that sonic, jigglypuff, and Ganondorf are better than falcon. Jiggly is (arguably) better than falcon, that's a reasonable conclusion, but...
Ganondorf is... well he's slow and that's putting it lightly. Besides, ganon can't set up a raptor jump after a sideB

Sonic is... well i think his smashes are lame... and so are his specials, but he does have the roll, fair, dsmash, and decent tilts. Still captain falcon has better tilts, smashes, aerials, and most everything else.

 

[Tenki]

Sonic is... well i think his smashes are lame... and so are his specials, but he does have the roll, fair, dsmash, and decent tilts. Still captain falcon has better tilts, smashes, aerials, and most everything else.

IIRC, Falcon's grounded moves, aside from jab are slower and/or have more dead time than Sonic's.

Per-accurate move, Falcon should almost always kill earlier than Sonic.

But he's also far more punishable, and has less chances to punish opponent moves 9_9;

If only his matchups were better-explored...

 

[SSBbo]

thanks for clearing that up, it doesn't seem like such an easy match-up... but i'd still say falcon's better, not because I'm ignorant, cuz i still think that even though falcon is more punishable,
falcons range>sonics range
if a falcon keeps his spacing correctly, he'll more than likely win (not saying it'll be a beat-down, though).

 

[Tenki]

I wasn't specifically talking about the Falcon vs Sonic matchup, I meant Falcon's matchups in general. Though, on the vs-Sonic matchup, I believe it's neutral, assuming both players know the matchup (though, admittedly, only a very small amount of people know what Sonic is capable of - examples: "OMG HE GRABBED ME FROM A SPINDASH!?"//"HOW DID YOU STOP YOUR SPINDASH!?"//"WTF IS HE DOING!?" -___- )

But on the ground, Falcon's moves are generally slower and more punishable, while in the air, Falcon trades hits or gets beaten out by alot of characters.

He does have very little landing lag, and his U-air, which IMO is his best aerial, comes out quickly, so he's definitely not as crappy as people think (but then again, none of the low tier characters are as bad as most SWF members think, until they play someone competent good with those characters.)

Either way, it'd be nice to see alot more (and also, more recent) examples of how competent/good Falcons are played. In the Sonic boards, Espy/Puffball64 and MalcolmM have shown up prominent members of SWF more usage of that as well as what Sonic can do in the hands of a good player, demonstrating usage of moves that we've been developing for months.

Need more Falcons to show moves.

 

[SaltyKracka]

Who is placing better than Ganondorf.

I'm sorry, did I just hear somebody say "Only because of Ally"? Why yes I did. It was me. And you have to admit, 90% of Falcon's points are there simply because Ally ****** around with Falcon in a few matches.

As for Ganondorf, well, we actually have good people. After all, Kosk placed second in his tournament recently.

 

[SSBbo]

I wasn't specifically talking about the Falcon vs Sonic matchup, I meant Falcon's matchups in general. Though, on the vs-Sonic matchup, I believe it's neutral, assuming both players know the matchup (though, admittedly, only a very small amount of people know what Sonic is capable of - examples: "OMG HE GRABBED ME FROM A SPINDASH!?"//"HOW DID YOU STOP YOUR SPINDASH!?"//"WTF IS HE DOING!?" -___- )

But on the ground, Falcon's moves are generally slower and more punishable, while in the air, Falcon trades hits or gets beaten out by alot of characters.

He does have very little landing lag, and his U-air, which IMO is his best aerial, comes out quickly, so he's definitely not as crappy as people think (but then again, none of the low tier characters are as bad as most SWF members think, until they play someone competent good with those characters.)

Either way, it'd be nice to see alot more (and also, more recent) examples of how competent/good Falcons are played. In the Sonic boards, Espy/Puffball64 and MalcolmM have shown up prominent members of SWF more usage of that as well as what Sonic can do in the hands of a good player, demonstrating usage of moves that we've been developing for months.

Need more Falcons to show moves.

I play as sonic a little bit, and i'm decent with him. I agree. More people need to represent bottom-tier characters. sonic, jigglypuff, and falcon are pretty good IMO.

 

[Darxmarth23]

We need something more than just and "IMO" to back us bottom tier characters up.

Or we need something more than an "IMO" to shoot the top tier characters down....

LOOK AT MY SIG PEOPLE AND JOIN!

 

[Hylian]

For some reason I don't think anyone actually posts about potential in this thread.

Exactly!!!!