Captain Falcon Moveset Discussion

[Gepona]

I'm sure we'll get a better Falcon to play with in this iteration, as it seems Sakurai is really trying to balance the gameplay out this time. Hope for the best.

When I saw the title, I was afraid it was talking about the game as a whole, and not about the Captain. Safe to say I would've been extremely disappointed if that were the case

 

[Masonomace]

Bandai Namco & Sakurai will balance everyone. Everyone's getting more options such as a Meteor Smash option, so I have faith in them both.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

His moveset is perfect as is, no need for him to change that up. They just need to buff him back to his former glory in my opinion, especially that knee.

 

[Ragna22]

I know someone made a thread about this regarding the trailer but I think it'd help Falcon if he can shield cancel out of his Falcon punch.

 

[Silvalfo]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this discussion looks kinda similar to Captain Falcon's moveset discussion.

Edit: oh, ok. Apparently everything has been moved to the same thread.

 

[skstylez]

They always say "minor", but they have no idea how greatly that influences him. He just needs improvements. He already has the most popular moveset in the game for good reason.

 

[Hong]

I merged the Famitsu article thread here. They work for Robin and Lucina, since we still have more to learn of those characters. Not much to say on Falcon.

Falcon is slated to have tweaks in largely numbers, just like any veteran. As far as Brawl was concerned, it was largely not the Falcon, but the environment that held him back more than anything.

For what it's worth, Pit's "Upperdash Arm" looks about identical to Raptor Boost at a glance, but it has super armour (enough to shrug off projectiles) and a lot of launch power. I know you can't go on to make direct comparisons in special moves like that, but I think Captain Falcon is due to receive some buffs for his specials, anyway.

Falcon Punch was pretty good in the 64 version. Make it faster and allow more vertical influence while airborne to assist with recovery.
Raptor Boost, keep it hot, keep it fast.
Falcon Kick, maybe more launch power so it can be a good edge-guard again. Don't think we'll ever get the double-jump refund from Melee again.

 

[Masonomace]

I shouldn't be saying this due to practically no good footage for examining his buffs/nerfs, but his Raptor Boost seemed to have gotten a faster start-up, but his ending-lag looks about the same which is still buffworthy on the eyes. That's about it. . .

 

[Hong]

I shouldn't be saying this due to practically no good footage for examining his buffs/nerfs, but his Raptor Boost seemed to have gotten a faster start-up, but his ending-lag looks about the same which is still buffworthy on the eyes. That's about it. . .

Did look that way. Not sure if it's just because the game is about 30% faster than Brawl, or if it's a deliberate buff. Would be well deserved, if that's the case.

 

[Gombukelp]

Am I the only one who would like to see Falcons F-Smash from Smash 64 to return? I always preferred the reverse side kick over the people's elbow. They are never going to bring it back though. Just some wishful thinking.

What do you guys think?

 

[Hong]

Am I the only one who would like to see Falcons F-Smash from Smash 64 to return? I always preferred the reverse side kick over the people's elbow. They are never going to bring it back though. Just some wishful thinking.

What do you guys think?

As far as hitboxes go, it had more to offer IMO.

 

[skstylez]

As far as hitboxes go, it had more to offer IMO.

I like how his current f-smash pulls you back though. His old f-smash is really just a strong f-tilt. And all smash64 hitboxes were seemingly better xD

 

[Gombukelp]

As far as hitboxes go, it had more to offer IMO.

Yeah, The reach was allot better. I also like the way he yells "EHNG!" when he uses it and the sound of the kick itself is like someone shoots of a gun or something. It's just that powerful!

I dunno, that attack just felt a lot more satisfying for me when it connected for some reason. It looks and feels more bad ass overall as well.

 

[Portanix]

Well, in Brawl when playing Falcon, I always felt he was not really viable. Knee just had a bad sweetspot. The D-Air was almost impossible to use, Falcon Punch was rarely useful in 4 Man Smash. And his Up-Special needs some tweaks as well. He should be able to control the height he jumps up.

 

[Silvalfo]

Judging from the images seen already:
http://media.eventhubs.com/images/2014/07/17_smashbros02.jpg
Raptor Boost seems to have gained quite a bit of range.
Fsmash may not be that glorious kick from 64, but look at its apparent disjoint. Looks like Ganon's fsmash disjoint from Brawl.
I might be getting a little too optmistic, but considering the angle and height he backflips after an UpB, it seems that its ending lag has been reduced.

 

[L9999]

Falcon Punch should be as the Falcon Punch in Smash 64. While I'm on it, give his aerials the properties from Smash 64, and remove their lag, and his Falcon Kick and Knee be like in Melee. Also improve ground attacks speed.

 

[UberMadman]

Ooh, now what do we have? Perhaps a new custom special? This would be a quite elaborate non-special move...

 

[Silvalfo]

Ooh, now what do we have? Perhaps a new custom special? This would be a quite elaborate non-special move...

Link doesn't seem to have been hit by this move, but it still looks rather different. Maybe that flaming trail represents longer recovery? Maybe it damages opponents in its way? Maybe it has a beautiful sweetspot at his fist which KOs at 80%? You never know.

Now I'll comment all images shown today that seem relevant to me:

Spoiler

I don't think this is good news. This pose comes from dsmash's cooldown, which has always been pretty bad. We can hope for it to be optimized or for IASA frames, though.

The rapid jabs. I don't know how the new rapid jab mechanics will affect the Captain, but apparently his range has been quite oomphed. In a way, his infinite jab might have been buffed, but we don't know what will happen to the glorious Gentleman combo.

A slightly different pose than his dtilt in both Melee and Brawl. No apparent disjoint, but we can hope it's not as sluggish.

stupid sexy falcon

LOOK AT THAT DISJOINT, OH MY GOD. IT HITS FURTHER THAN A FREAKING FOOT BEYOND HIS ELBOW.

Anybody knows what is this pose about? SideB start up? New spotdodge?

It's back. No sweetspot in this image, but let's hope this move is good.

does this thing block fire or projectiles or something

Other than those, his nair and bair seem unchanged. I hope they have better hitboxes, though.

 

[Turokman5896]

Ooh, now what do we have? Perhaps a new custom special? This would be a quite elaborate non-special move...

SHORYUKEN! Could be a custom up special i suppose

 

[Masonomace]

Ooh, now what do we have? Perhaps a new custom special? This would be a quite elaborate non-special move...

Oh man. . .my imagination & speculation are rising to dangerous levels my nipples are getting sensitive. . .
But going on I feel like that either:

• custom special material
• Directed / guided Side B aerial movement / mobility
• Someone just got a Shoryuken OoS option a.k.a. UpB custom special?

or Silvalfo's post because it's a good analysis:

Link doesn't seem to have been hit by this move, but it still looks rather different. Maybe that flaming trail represents longer recovery? Maybe it damages opponents in its way? Maybe it has a beautiful sweetspot at his fist which KOs at 80%?

'
Sorry for using your spoiler @ Silvalfo but I'd like to use it for my input:

Spoiler

Does seem like the backlash of the backward hit-box of D-smash, however Olimar being on the ground I'd like to believe that maybe Backward D-smash meteor smashed Olimar there? Very unlikely since the pikmin didn't get hit either & they would've been destroyed by a smash attack like that.

Held jab looks amazing if all of those white bullet-like attacks being multi-hit are indeed all hit-box worthy making this standard rapid jab amazing due to the SDI nerf & the ability to pivot turn-around cancel into jab. A wonderful ground game improvement to me that hopefully gets some Gentlemen advantage. It just. . .looks like an amazing walling move that actually gives Falcon the ability to zone?!?!?

At first glance it appeared as a landing N-air but after closely looking at it & reading Silvalfo's comment on the pic I do believe it's D-tilt. I'm once again impressed with the way this move looks & hits, Falcon actually being low to the ground reaching out his leg to sweep the ground farther than I remember his D-tilt in any Smash game reaching. This can be good because of the crouching height everyone's getting making Falcon dodge standard moves such as shown above^.

Lmao at that position. Props to that ass, Falcon where's your assless chaps costume?! Doesn't appear any different besides you-know-what, but with Pivot turn-around canceling into tilts I can see this move being a quick throw-out move during neutral ground game when others approach or space themselves. Falcon Ass > Snake Ass, & to finish Falcon may get better IASA frames.

HOLY HOTNESS I THOUGHT LUCARIO WAS THE ONLY DISJOINTED ONE THAT MATTERED! I feel a bit disturbed of how Falcon is making that position bending his everything when going for the disjoint elbow but I am not complaining if that is what it takes. This move looks more powerful due to Toon Link's face or maybe it's just me. I'm gonna pretend that red lightning means nothing to Falcon's move either but damndify I can't wait to see the Pivot techs with turn-around F-smashes much like in Brawl but BETTER!

First off, majestic bulge 2014, second this looks to appear as a switched direction taunt that may of gotten changed when he looks left & taunts looking backward with his "C'mon!" OR, it's his spot-dodge but I don't see any intangible frames included in the picture so I'm confused as well.

Lmao at the position Link makes with when reacting a Knee from behind, amazing animations imho. Did his scarf ever fling up like that when doing a Knee before?! My fears of the move not doing any electric visual animation is putting me under some duress but this could be just a bland image without any visuals added in. . .but then fire's been put in so possibly the move has tons of Hit-lag & stun?!?!?!

A fire move that approaches, nullifies fire in his path, AND wouldn't slow down because of it?!?!? Falcon you anti-fire fighter! needs a firefighter costume DLC ASAP please, make it happen! If Falcon really didn't lose momentum & velocity from fire-based attacks with his Falcon Kick please sign me up for this Fire fighting MatchUp. Fire-based attacks in Smash are pretty much the most used elemental attack with practically more than 50% of the cast having at least one fire move or more. And is it me or is Falcon's height above the ground higher than usual? . .

 

[The Revolutionary Cafe]

I hope he has a chargeable falcon punch (the longer you hold the more damage it does and possible could become a 1 hit kill that does like 10% damage after a long enough charge) aside from that I'd just want property changes to his attacks to make him play more like Melee/64 Falcon (along with the pre-given benefit of Sm4sh's faster speed than Brawl)

 

[EdreesesPieces]

They need to give him a new recovery. Let him using an F-Zero car.

 

[Masonomace]

They need to give him a new recovery. Let him using an F-Zero car.

Like the Brawl Wario-inspired bike play?

Damn, that'd be a twist I'd be interested to see / play.

 

[L9999]

Link doesn't seem to have been hit by this move, but it still looks rather different. Maybe that flaming trail represents longer recovery? Maybe it damages opponents in its way? Maybe it has a beautiful sweetspot at his fist which KOs at 80%? You never know.

Now I'll comment all images shown today that seem relevant to me:

Spoiler

I don't think this is good news. This pose comes from dsmash's cooldown, which has always been pretty bad. We can hope for it to be optimized or for IASA frames, though.

The rapid jabs. I don't know how the new rapid jab mechanics will affect the Captain, but apparently his range has been quite oomphed. In a way, his infinite jab might have been buffed, but we don't know what will happen to the glorious Gentleman combo.

A slightly different pose than his dtilt in both Melee and Brawl. No apparent disjoint, but we can hope it's not as sluggish.

stupid sexy falcon

LOOK AT THAT DISJOINT, OH MY GOD. IT HITS FURTHER THAN A FREAKING FOOT BEYOND HIS ELBOW.

Anybody knows what is this pose about? SideB start up? New spotdodge?

It's back. No sweetspot in this image, but let's hope this move is good.

does this thing block fire or projectiles or something

Other than those, his nair and bair seem unchanged. I hope they have better hitboxes, though.

First pic looks like the start of the Falcon Punch. Infinite jabs now have a finisher that sends opponents flying, so it could be used for Knee kills if the knee is useful. Sixth pic looks like his "Come on!" taunt.

 

[Masonomace]

First pic looks like the start of the Falcon Punch. Infinite jabs now have a finisher that sends opponents flying, so it could be used for Knee kills if the knee is useful. Sixth pic looks like his "Come on!" taunt.

For the finishing strong hit, I'd highly want his strong knee knock-back on his 3rd hit from Melee, or something similar to that.

But for Falcon's moves so far, most of them seem unchanged. Need more pictures or just the release of the game.

 

[Superyoshiom]

His Falcon Punch should get super armor. That'd be amazing. Either that, or you can cancel the punch.

 

[L9999]

Back in the day when the Falcon Punch was actually useful.

 

[The Revolutionary Cafe]

Back in the day when the Falcon Punch was actually useful.

The hitstun in smash 64 is so glorious lol

 

[kro_]

For me, the only thing Falcon needs is a bit more power and speed, as well as air momentum from running. Flying towards an airborne enemy and crashing into them with the knee is the best feeling in the game.

 

[Masonomace]

I'm a day alte but welcome to Smashboards @ kro_ .

I want Falcon to always have a reliable U-air, mix-up usage Falcon Punch that can still reverse momentum off-stage & on-stage keeping it's stronger knock-back scaling Broverse, & last but not least a reliable Knee of justicecream.

The rest of his move-set is how well it all integrates with his primary options said above, all of it being extras on the side to his main dish courses. That would be experimenting & theory-crafting of how all his other moves do.

 

[The Pizza Guy]

I can't be the only one who thought this was his grab animation.

 

[kro_]

From the second of Falcon we saw in the Shulk trailer, it seems airborne falcon kick has slightly less start-up.

 

[AttackstorM]

Has Falcon's knee been confirmed yet ??? I'm getting a little worried... have not seen it yet!

 

[kro_]

The knee is back, baby

There's a picture of Falcon kneeing Link, I don't have it, but it exists.

 

[Spirst]

I'm hoping the knee has a better sweetspot. It became very tedious to use in Brawl because of this reason. He also needs more priority on his attacks so he isn't beaten out by everyone else. I think the current faster physics will help him out as well.

And for good measure, he needs an alternate special in which he performs his multiple hit jab animation but each hit is a falcon punch.

 

[Silvalfo]

There was a video with a little bit of Falcon gameplay and his uair looked faster and with better range.
If most people's aerial game got nerfed and Falcon got a little buff, that already makes him fairly better.

 

[ChickenWing13]

There was a video with a little bit of Falcon gameplay and his uair looked faster and with better range.
If most people's aerial game got nerfed and Falcon got a little buff, that already makes him fairly better.

Apparently his double Uair is no longer an option and his Knee as well as his Dair have increased landing lag (+4 - 5 frames). It seems to me like they nerfed him again. He's probably going to be worse than he was in Brawl. Smh

I'm hoping the knee has a better sweetspot. It became very tedious to use in Brawl because of this reason.

All they need to do is increase his hitbox by making it as big as it was in melee and he's good.

 

[Terrazi Terrajin]

Anyone else noticed his tilts have cool down on the end now? well, MORE cool down. Same with Samus.

 

[Masonomace]

• U-tilt looks to be less promising. Forgot how much % it deals but it's a decent anti-air cover. Not improved but surely not horrible.
• D-tilt has not been seen by my eyes.
• F-tilt is promising. It's range & pivoting it is fairly good ground game. 8% dealt is okay by my standards & to me I felt it got a better hit-box than Brawl's F-tilt.

Anyone else noticed his tilts have cool down on the end now? well, MORE cool down. Same with Samus.

I watched these videos & I was quite impressed with his tilts tbh:

At 0:09 - 0:13. First he does a F-tilt to bat him away, then D-smash clashed with Luigi U-smash, & his next option to bat him away again was F-tilt. Was a decent decision considering the distance between them

At 0:22 - 0:24. He does a F-tilt to Jab1 to SideB RB. That string impresses me far more than his Brawl F-tilt + Jab1 + SideB RB.

At 0:29 he had the right idea to U-tilt but just wasn't spaced due to his Falcon Kick landing lag. Though at 0:30, he U-tilts again & lands it this time well-spaced against Luigi.

At 1:44 he runs right, & does a turn-around pivoted F-tilt as Luigi was sitting in shield & panicked Spot-dodging. Falcon read his escaping & ran to dash grab.

At 0:45 he falls down to the stage to land, doing a buffered turn-around F-tilt aimed upward to answer Kirby's approaching. Very quick start-up & decent cooldown that moment, impresses me greatly.

At 1:25 he rolls behind Kirby to throw out a D-tilt which I have now seen for the first time, having mixed thoughts on it. It's still a tilt preferred for small opponents like Kirby, but his F-tilt is so good imo, that a tilted downward F-tilt is better off used more than D-tilt is. It no longer props them up like it did in Brawl, instead it knocks them away horizontally off-stage.

At 0:05 he does a F-tilt input & knocks her slightly away putting shield-stun on Palutena's shield. I can't tell if Palutena was grabbing or whatever that was, but her punish attempt failed due to Falcon's F-tilt hurt-box not lingering.

At :20 he throws out a D-tilt in case she were to do a wake-up attack or a regular wake-up. Seemed like decent coverage to me.

At :23 he mis-inputs a turn-around D-tilt which normally in competitive play would be punished, yet Palutena making a mistake mis-inputting as well, Falcon deals a turn-around F-tilt covering his mistake knocking her away.

At :44 he was too close & uses a D-tilt which got PowerShielded & instantly grab punished for it. I can't say D-tilt is a bad tilt, but the way it was used was poor.

So mainly, I feel U-tilt & D-tilt are not up to par with Falcon's F-tilt this time around. F-tilt impresses me the most.
However, %-wise, D-tilt does 10% fresh being a mid-launching move, while F-tilt fresh being his fastest tilt had little knock-back & only did about 7 or 8%. U-tilt fresh did 12%, taking the win on more damage, & knock-back, but is traded-off fairly well with being his longest tilt start-up & cooldown. That is very fair.

 

[Dax]

can anyone who has the game check if Down Throw to *something* is viable or not? I mean as a serious combo, not CPU crap pls