Mikhal
Smash Rookie
As the title states, Captain Falcon beats Ike. Has anyone else noted this?
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Captain Falcon beats Ike
- Thread starter Mikhal
- Start date
Assuming that you are stating your clause as an unfailing law, you are wrong. Captain Falcon beats Ike if the player using Captain Falcon is better than the player using Ike. At the same time Ike beats Captain Falcon if the player using Ike is better than the player using Captain Falcon. Honestly I see them as being pretty much equal with Ike maybe having the slightest edge. Having played as both quite a bit (Falcon being my primary and Ike being one of my secondaries now along with DeDeDe), I can honestly say that at the competitive level both characters take about the same level of player skill to be successful. They both have their pros and cons, but overall if I would say that they will end up being placed in the same tier (once tiers come out) because they are so close. You may disagree with me about my tier point specifically but on the whole I don't think you can argue very much for your opinion. Falcon is not flat-out better than Ike.
Totodileex
Smash Cadet
Not necessarily.
Anyone who has more skill with any character than the Ike they're facing can beat Ike. Even Pikachu can beat him.
Anyone who has more skill with any character than the Ike they're facing can beat Ike. Even Pikachu can beat him.
Hey don't knock on Pikachu. There's a guy in the top 20 on Smash Brawl Rankings who uses Pikachu and he's a beast (I would know, he killed me when I played him). Honestly Pikachu is a pretty broken character when used correctly.
Totodileex
Smash Cadet
I didn't mean to knock on him, I love him. Most people don't think he's very good, however.
Mr Nobody
Smash Cadet
He's not saying Falcon is better than Ike. He is saying Falcon BEATS Ike. That is, he counterpicks Ike.
I haven't noticed it either way. I'm not brave enough to use Falcon on Ike. I just stick to DK.
I haven't noticed it either way. I'm not brave enough to use Falcon on Ike. I just stick to DK.
Mikhal
Smash Rookie
I'm glad to see I'm being taken somewhat seriously. I'm not saying Captain Falcon will always beats Ike. But I am saying that this is (at least for me) a good match up for Captain Falcon. While they both are pretty heavy hitters, Ike has the advantage when it comes to killing at low percents. However with the exception of Back Air, Up Tilt, and Forward B, all of Ike's attacks have a pretty good start up lag. So you are given fair warning not to move in too close. This is where Captain Falcon has the advantage over him. While lacking in priority Captain Falcon has very fast attack speed and it only takes a single jab to stop an attack (provided the attack does not have super armor). It's true that after about 30% Ike has the potential to kill, but if you interrupt every attack you're relatively safe.
In terms of skill, the player with better skill does not always win. Maybe in Melee, however this is Brawl. And in this game luck has a very big role in determining the victor (i.e. Who doesn't trip into a forward smash).
So in my experience Captain Falcon beats Ike. I'm just wondering if anyone else has seen it this way.
In terms of skill, the player with better skill does not always win. Maybe in Melee, however this is Brawl. And in this game luck has a very big role in determining the victor (i.e. Who doesn't trip into a forward smash).
So in my experience Captain Falcon beats Ike. I'm just wondering if anyone else has seen it this way.
Odd...I thought that on a CASUAL basis, this game it based more on skill then Melee, where button mashing, or c-stick abusing would get you much further. Competitively, of course, it's a different story. I've noticed the gap between me and my friends (which was already signficant) growing larger with Brawl.
You forgot about Ike's AAA combo on the speedy list. Seriously that thing is brutal.
And I don't know how you came to the conclusion that Brawl gives less skilled players more of an advantage than Melee did. Honestly I've played some of the top Brawl players in Wi-Fi matches (multiple players in the top 20 on Smash Brawl Rankings) and they kill me. Tripping is really not an issue like people thought it would be (in my opinion at least) because for one you can't be hit on the actual trip, and then once you're down and vulnerable you can pretty much recover before any character can get a strong move off on you. I usually like when I trip because it messes my opponent up more than it messes me up and I can use it as an effective opportunity to strike. But that's just me. Truly though the best players are definitely skilled and will definitely not lose to people who are more than just below them in terms of skill level. The same was true about Melee.
As for Falcon vs. Ike, sure Falcon can stop Ike's moves with a jab but I can't tell you the number of times I've done something like that and then the Ike just busts out his ridiculous AAA combo on me because I can't get anything in on him before he does it. Without the AAA combo Ike would be a much lesser force, but with it he has the tools to be successful against pretty much any character. His reach is what really makes him effective against Falcon. If Falcon had one or two ranged moves/projectiles with great priority he would trash Ike. But he doesn't and Ike is able to use his reach against poor old Falcon. Also, good Ike players know to not use Ike's laggy moves unless they have ample time to do so.
Falcon is not a sitting duck by any means though. You are correct when you say that Falcon's speed is a huge advantage in the Ike matchup. The other thing that gives Falcon a fighting chance is his aerial supremacy. If Falcon gets Ike in the air he can pretty much have his way with him. Of course there's always the stupid Ike UpB "combo breaker" as I like to call it but after he lands from it Ike has some decent lag that can be punished. As long as you don't get hit by Ike's UpB you will always be able to get in a decent or good hit on him after it's over. Falcon Kick is a great move against Ike because it has range and decent enough priority combined with speed. Those three things combine to spell problem for Ike. Ike is also succeptable to Knees and edgeguarding. He has by far the most gimpable recovery in the game but his UpB is nuts if in range of a target/edge.
Overall I maintain my previous assertion that Ike and Falcon pretty much balance each other out in a head to head matchup. Such matches essentially boil down to which player makes more mistakes and is punished for them. Both characters have the ability to kill quickly when given the opportunity, so most of the time these fights evolve into tactical defensive battles between the two players. I agree that Ike is a good matchup for Falcon but only because Falcon has so many bad matchups that a decent one like Ike becomes good by default. lol I'd much rather play an Ike than a Marth, Wolf, Falco, Fox, Olimar, Pikachu, Samus, or Zero Suit Samus (and there's probably a couple others I'm forgetting), but I wouldn't call Ike a "good" matchup. Good by comparison yes, but good in general I don't think so. I'm glad you think so though and have success against Ike.
And I don't know how you came to the conclusion that Brawl gives less skilled players more of an advantage than Melee did. Honestly I've played some of the top Brawl players in Wi-Fi matches (multiple players in the top 20 on Smash Brawl Rankings) and they kill me. Tripping is really not an issue like people thought it would be (in my opinion at least) because for one you can't be hit on the actual trip, and then once you're down and vulnerable you can pretty much recover before any character can get a strong move off on you. I usually like when I trip because it messes my opponent up more than it messes me up and I can use it as an effective opportunity to strike. But that's just me. Truly though the best players are definitely skilled and will definitely not lose to people who are more than just below them in terms of skill level. The same was true about Melee.
As for Falcon vs. Ike, sure Falcon can stop Ike's moves with a jab but I can't tell you the number of times I've done something like that and then the Ike just busts out his ridiculous AAA combo on me because I can't get anything in on him before he does it. Without the AAA combo Ike would be a much lesser force, but with it he has the tools to be successful against pretty much any character. His reach is what really makes him effective against Falcon. If Falcon had one or two ranged moves/projectiles with great priority he would trash Ike. But he doesn't and Ike is able to use his reach against poor old Falcon. Also, good Ike players know to not use Ike's laggy moves unless they have ample time to do so.
Falcon is not a sitting duck by any means though. You are correct when you say that Falcon's speed is a huge advantage in the Ike matchup. The other thing that gives Falcon a fighting chance is his aerial supremacy. If Falcon gets Ike in the air he can pretty much have his way with him. Of course there's always the stupid Ike UpB "combo breaker" as I like to call it but after he lands from it Ike has some decent lag that can be punished. As long as you don't get hit by Ike's UpB you will always be able to get in a decent or good hit on him after it's over. Falcon Kick is a great move against Ike because it has range and decent enough priority combined with speed. Those three things combine to spell problem for Ike. Ike is also succeptable to Knees and edgeguarding. He has by far the most gimpable recovery in the game but his UpB is nuts if in range of a target/edge.
Overall I maintain my previous assertion that Ike and Falcon pretty much balance each other out in a head to head matchup. Such matches essentially boil down to which player makes more mistakes and is punished for them. Both characters have the ability to kill quickly when given the opportunity, so most of the time these fights evolve into tactical defensive battles between the two players. I agree that Ike is a good matchup for Falcon but only because Falcon has so many bad matchups that a decent one like Ike becomes good by default. lol I'd much rather play an Ike than a Marth, Wolf, Falco, Fox, Olimar, Pikachu, Samus, or Zero Suit Samus (and there's probably a couple others I'm forgetting), but I wouldn't call Ike a "good" matchup. Good by comparison yes, but good in general I don't think so. I'm glad you think so though and have success against Ike.
KosukeKGA
Smash Champion
^ This is true. Ike would be garbage without his AAA combo.
Emblem Lord
The Legendary Lord
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CF doesn't beat Ike. lol
Reaver197
Smash Lord
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Thing is to realize about Falcon is that he's not that quick on the attack. The pure speed advantage that Falcon has isn't that big at all. It's rather that Ike's moves generally have more lag than Falcon's, allowing for more punishment. However, as Keykid said, any Ike player worth his salt will know what moves cause lag, and know when or when not to implement them.
I would actually say that Ike has more of an innate advantage due to his disjointed hitbox and KO power. Falcon's speed just isn't that much better to really be a clear advantage, and also capitalizing on laggy moves isn't what it used to be. Plus, Falcon can't really take advantage of one of Ike's weakest aspects of his game, his recovery.
I would actually say that Ike has more of an innate advantage due to his disjointed hitbox and KO power. Falcon's speed just isn't that much better to really be a clear advantage, and also capitalizing on laggy moves isn't what it used to be. Plus, Falcon can't really take advantage of one of Ike's weakest aspects of his game, his recovery.