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Can't let go of Melee...

Nordatron

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 11, 2006
Messages
4
SSBM will always be one of the greatest games of all time, it will go down as one of those old school games that for some reason never gets old and always looks good, and that is why a lot of us are having such a difficult time letting it go, on top of the facts that Brawl is a whole new animal in terms of physics and gameplay. For a lot of us out there (people like me) who played melee to its full potential, used all of the advanced techniques, and who always wanted to do the best they could to be that guy (or girl) whose friends absolutely hated to fight because of how hard they could own them, we can tell instantly that Brawl really is different game. What I am seeing very quickly however, is people not wanting to accept that it truly is a different game, and adjustment is definitely a neccesity for anybody who has played previous Smash titles, especially if we want to play Brawl to its full potential and truly appreciate it.

The first thing I have to say is that everybody wants to make comparisons between Brawl and Melee, but considering that Brawl is not Melee, what good is it to say, "this sucks in Brawl because its not as good as it was in Melee"? Does "it" really suck? Or is "it" just different? Many of the opinions I've seen from people claim that certain things "suck" compared to Melee, though from my own experience they don't seem to "suck" in Brawl, even if "it" isn't as fast, or as strong as it once was. On the flip side, many characters had a lot of moves that "sucked" in Melee, that are now way better in Brawl.

Secondly, I have to say that I was a late bloomer in Melee. I had that game from the moment it came out, and played it daily, set it down for a few months, and always came back to it. My friends and I played for more than 3 years before learning that there was a whole new world to that game. Some of the things you could do in Melee I would have never known about if it wasn't for stumbling across it on the internet. When it came to actually learning advanced techniques, none of it was a matter of just going "okay, I'm just gonna wavedash now that I've seen someone do it", it was hard. These advanced techniques separated good players from bad players, because we all had to put effort into being able to use them, and we all had to put a lot of effort into being able to use them naturally and effectively. I'm completely with everyone out there who wanted to transfer their skills that they worked for to new Smash. But, for a lot of that stuff, we just don't have it anymore and have got to accept that. On top of that, we have to realize that we've all gotten so used to fighting the way we fought in Melee, a lot of what's going on in Brawl just seems weird to us.

Really though, I don't think Brawl is held back from being a hugely competitive game based on skill, and if we are going to be getting into what really makes Brawl tick, we're all going to have to be putting a lot of what we learned in Melee to the side. Now please bare with me, because I have only had the game for a few days, and haven't spent enough time to make any really educated opinions, but I feel that to get good at Brawl, we will all have to spend a lot of time with individual characters to really see how advanced game mechanics will work. Many of the mechanics from Melee were pretty universal: wavedashing, L-cancelling, crouch-cancelling, etc, etc. Of course they worked differently with each character, but at the core it was all the same idea. Brawl really doesn't seem to be set up like that as much, each character seems to be way more unique in how their own mechanics work, and by digging into each one I'm sure we'll find tons of really useful new things to take advantage of. The best example I can give as of now is with Toon Link. He quickly became my new favorite (for now anyway, it used to be Falco, and I will forever be sad about losing who he once was) mainly because of his really good spike (that can serve many purposes if you get into it). What I find unique about it is that it only works the second the move comes out, so if you aren't right on top of the opponent when you use it, the spike won't happen. In order to be able to use it effectively, especially out over the ledge (because if you miss you will fall like a ton of bricks to your death) you will have to put effort into getting good at it. So far that has won me just about every match with Toon Link since I figured it out. I can usually push my friends around by doing a sort of SHFFLE, than once I have them into position either knock them or throw them off and just barely hop out and blast them down off the screen. I have even seen it work several times while they were holding the ledge, though I don't know exactly why that is, but am exited to figure out exactly how it works. Point is, its these kinds of things (as I'm sure there are tons of them) that will make this game really good.

I could keep going on but unfortunately I don't have much time, so I'm going to cut it short. Ultimately what I am trying to say is that I feel this has the potential, it's just going to take a lot of effort from the community to figure out just where it is. I just hope those of you who read and choose to reply to this add to what I have tried to say with your own examples and outlooks, and don't choose to burn this post up in flames.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I hated Melee and I'm glad to see Brawl is so different.
 

spielkind

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 22, 2008
Messages
19
this theard is pure WIN. i agree with everything you said, i wish this board had more people like you and less unlike you^^
 

Rubyiris

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
6,033
Location
Tucson, AZ.
64. Melee, and Brawl are so different. No game is better than the other. It's simply personal preference.


Everyone stop this stupid ****ing argument. It makes you all look like immature douches. Play the game, or don't play the game. Don't complain, and don't try to compare things that aren't comparable. Melee will stay in the circuit. Shut the hell up and continue to play your beloved game.
 

0oo0

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 25, 2005
Messages
59
I think all the smash bros. series kick *** :p I like how different they are from one another !! :p Unlike lots of sequels these days...
 

Nexus_of_Sanity

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 7, 2008
Messages
16
Location
Scotland, EU
Rubyiris: Okay, um, chill

Anyway, I've nt played 64 or Brawl (yet! :mad:) so I wouldn't know. And I never played Melee seriously, so I didn't bother with any of these advanced techniques. Then again, I probably should bother for SSBB, as I'm gonna be playing online rather than against Friends or Lvl. 6-8 CPUs.

IMO, each succession offers a little more variety. More stages. More characters. Better technology and more game modes. However, once I get Brawl, i really don't think Melee will hold much appeal for me anymore. All my fav Melee stages (Temple :bee:) appear n Brawl anyway, and I've never been a huge Roy/Dr.Mario/Mewto/Pichu/Young Link (though Toon Link is REALLY similar) fan.

But to address TC, it happens all the time. IN loads of places:
SONIC: I love those old 2D sonics! These new sonic adventures suck badly! Whatever happened to old school sonic gameplaying???

well, that was my best example anyway, but you get my drift. People have something against change
 

Jael Irish

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 6, 2008
Messages
96
Location
Baltimore
If I remember correctly, When we made the transition from 64 to Melee, a lot of people had the same uproar and complaints that you would see now.

In a way it is expected, we conditioned ourselves to playing a certain way for over 6 years, its expected we become a bit skeptical on a new game that we view takes a step back due to the physicality's of the engine.

However if we do think about it, what if we went from Brawl to Melee, It took us a long while to find out various techniques in Melee that are used consistently and almost second nature to even the middle ranked players.

We wouldn't have figured out L-Canceling right away as Brawl does not have it, wavedashing would have taken the same time, SHFFLing? Please, that would take forever to learn if we went from brawl to melee, as yet again Brawl lacks L-Canceling, We would be furious beyond belief saying every moves landing lag is exponentially larger then the previous installment, and it just would prevent correct combos.

If the transition was reversed, the game would be much more Ariel, attempting a lot of combos we did before but we would fall to fast., and end up just as we did before...Saying Melee would be unplayable.

We as tournament players have just conditioned ourselves, and put in a lot of expectations due to our wants and how we play now, but the worst thing we can do to this game is push it aside and not make an attempt to play competitively.
 

180OP

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 19, 2007
Messages
345
Location
Toronto, Ontario
melee>brawl so far and I think it will stay like that but it wont stand the test of time. Brawl will wash it out.

for me 7 years of melee is too much and there is a real need for change. some will disagree but that is my opinion. definitely the game is more shallow and linear than melee but i just cant look back. its too old but still the best Smash game yet.

wifi just kills melee.

we have to stop whining and make our choices:

whether we want to move to brawl to advance the competitive scene?
If so, then more positiive and productive posts are needed

or do we want to go back to melee?
If so, then that option exists as well.

but regardless of which choice you make, the b!tching must stop.
 

xyouxarexuglyx2

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 26, 2006
Messages
1,086
Location
Phoenix, AZ
I hated Melee and I'm glad to see Brawl is so different.
Stfu, no one cares about your single opinion. If you hated Melee, chances are, you sucked at it, couldn't wd, couldn't l-cancel, and couldn't beat anyone except your little brother and your friends.

Also, another side of said argument, not being able to wd, l-cancel, etc. doesn't mean that you suck, but they sure are very common symptoms :)
 

xyouxarexuglyx2

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 26, 2006
Messages
1,086
Location
Phoenix, AZ
If I remember correctly, When we made the transition from 64 to Melee, a lot of people had the same uproar and complaints that you would see now.

In a way it is expected, we conditioned ourselves to playing a certain way for over 6 years, its expected we become a bit skeptical on a new game that we view takes a step back due to the physicality's of the engine.

However if we do think about it, what if we went from Brawl to Melee, It took us a long while to find out various techniques in Melee that are used consistently and almost second nature to even the middle ranked players.

We wouldn't have figured out L-Canceling right away as Brawl does not have it, wavedashing would have taken the same time, SHFFLing? Please, that would take forever to learn if we went from brawl to melee, as yet again Brawl lacks L-Canceling, We would be furious beyond belief saying every moves landing lag is exponentially larger then the previous installment, and it just would prevent correct combos.

If the transition was reversed, the game would be much more Ariel, attempting a lot of combos we did before but we would fall to fast., and end up just as we did before...Saying Melee would be unplayable.

We as tournament players have just conditioned ourselves, and put in a lot of expectations due to our wants and how we play now, but the worst thing we can do to this game is push it aside and not make an attempt to play competitively.
Note: L-cancelling was in 64. :dizzy:

p.s. Oshi- double post.. sowwy mods.
 

Monshou_no_Nazo

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
421
Location
Oklahoma
Everyone is arguing about opinions, yet the topic creator manages to be the least biased out of anybody I have ever seen so far.

That was a great post. Even if Brawl doesn't have as much depth as Melee, I do hope it will have a competitive scene none of the less, because I want to join in on the fun of competing.
 

xyouxarexuglyx2

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 26, 2006
Messages
1,086
Location
Phoenix, AZ
Oh man, the amount of irony in this statement is astronomical.
No one gives a **** about my opinion either.

Melee > Brawl
Melee > Brawl
Melee > Brawl
Melee > Brawl
Melee > Brawl
Melee > Brawl

Is anyone doing anything as a result of my opinion? Telling him that no one cares about his opinion isn't an opinion really :<
 

Sup Dawg

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 29, 2007
Messages
107
Location
CA
I also am having great difficulty transitioning from SSBM to SSBB. I have just had so much fun playing Melee, experiencing so many memorable moments, beating so many of my friends, and accomplishing so much; I just can't let go. I can't bear to think that soon Melee will fade away, just as SSB64 was when Melee came out.

I know that Nintendo is just trying to maximize the Smash Bros. experience for us, but by creating separate Smash Bros. games, they have increased the chances of us becoming attached to an individual Smash Bros. game. And I am one of those people. There are just so many things that I've gone through, going from one game to the next. I've accomplished just so much... all of my records, all of my victories, all of the advanced moves that I've learned, all of the respect I've gained from fellow smashers... was it all for nothing?

But when I am troubled by these thoughts, I sit down and tell myself that It'll be alright. This might not be such a bad thing after all. It just means that there is a new game for me master. And as much as I will miss playing Melee, I will strive to become a great brawler.

There is a saying that I've heard that aids in comforting me, that just as the Phoenix rises from the ashes, I too will rise above the ranks in order to become a truly accomplished brawler in the world of Super Smash Bros.!
 
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