can we talk about Fox's jab

[Timbers]

I really feel like Fox's jab is a large part of his game, but how different characters respond (by game design) to Fox's jab2 "pop up" into the air feels incredibly feast or famine. Fox's jab3 (flurry) is pretty crap? Because of how easy it is for opponents to fall out of it and punish endlag accordingly. That's fine, because Fox's jab cancel is incredibly good against almost every character, but there are those few...

This leads me into questions/discussion. There are several characters I know of off the top of my head (Falcon, Falco, Fox, Sheik, maybe more?) that can disrespect the jab cancel due to character design, but I'm not sure what really affects this? Floaties and small frames are naturally hindered by the jab cancel, but fast fallers (and maybe tall characters?) can actually fall to the ground before jab2 lag ends and shield (at low enough percents, this can happen before you even jab3 flurry) and if their jab is quick enough, they can actually fall to the ground and jab mash your jab2 endlag, and due to them having to be incredibly high in percentage/your own rage to be knocked off the ground high enough to not punish your successful jab starter..it's frustrating.

I think it'd be great to get a comprehensive list of when it's safe to even jab a character, but taking rage into account I imagine it'd be hard to get exact percents when a jab cancel is without punish (when it's safe to jab-lock, safe to grab, safe to dsmash, safe to usmash, etc.). Jab3 flurry is (unfortunately) the safest route in scenarios where characters fall quickly to the ground, but that option is unreliable and (sometimes heavily) punishable.

tl;dr what have your experiences been with Fox's jab and jab cancels on different characters in the cast?

 

[luke_atyeo]

isnt this kinda stuff what we have a Q/A thread for? (which admittedly at his point is more of just a Q thread) :<

Anyways you aren't the first person to ask for this, and nobody else has jumped forward so **** it, I'll do it.

 

[Timbers]

isnt this kinda stuff what we have a Q/A thread for? (which admittedly at his point is more of just a Q thread) :<

Anyways you aren't the first person to ask for this, and nobody else has jumped forward so **** it, I'll do it.

Almost anything could be considered for Q&A thread, but I don't think a topic like this is "simple question, simple answer" material.

Also yeah, this board is admittedly pretty dead, particularly the "Q thread" lol.

 

[DEHF]

As far as I can tell, you get a guaranteed follow up on most of the cast with the second jab, but for some characters it's dependent on their percent and Fox's rage. For example, you can't get any follow ups on Falcon from the second jab when he's at 0 percent, but if he's around 90ish you can, with rage even earlier.

As far as I can tell, you can't get any follow ups on Fox, Sheik, and Falco; I haven't really done an intensive testing with this though, so I could be wrong.

 

[luke_atyeo]

yeah thats the general consensus, so I'll try to make as comprehensive a list as I can

also larry plz dont teach shaya how to beat fox

 

[~ Gheb ~]

As far as I can tell, you can't get any follow ups on Fox, Sheik, and Falco; I haven't really done an intensive testing with this though, so I could be wrong.

Jab 2 -> grab and even jab 2 -> jab 1 repeat has worked for me against Sheik before though I don't remember specific % for it.

 

[DavemanCozy]

Jab 2 -> grab and even jab 2 -> jab 1 repeat has worked for me against Sheik before though I don't remember specific % for it.

Both work if your opponent isn't expecting them. I tested this in 3DS though, it's not a true combo to do jab 2 -> jab 1 nor jab 2 -> grab.

This is why jab 2 -> jab 1 will not work at low % on C. Falcon, Little Mac and Sheik due to their falling speeds, and it's also why Ness, Peach and Yoshi can use their panic N-air to escape. Another option we have though is Jab 2 -> Shield, to block their attempt to escape. Of course, shield is beaten by grabs, so spot-dodging at the right time is key. It's all one big battle of reads when close to these characters. Rolling away is probably the safest option they have and we have, although this just resets back to neutral and am not sure that's necessarily a good thing.

Little Mac is especially frustrating because he doesn't have to jab, he can just F-smash us, eat whatever we try to hit him with super-armor and just hit us back. Or he'll just hit our shield and push us back too far to punish the cooldown on F-smash. Against Little Mac, it's way better to do jab 2 -> grab.