Can we get one character that doesnt depends on projectiles?

[Silask20]

I know they exist but we honestly need more. I hate using projectile base characters which is most of them.

 

[Kankato]

I know they exist but we honestly need more. I hate using projectile base characters which is most of them.

I understand the frustration with zoning but this game isn't as projectile heavy as you make it out to be. A lot of characters (even with projectiles) have the tools needed to deal with fireballs.

Mario is great up close and has the cape to deal with zoning.

Fox has a reflector to deal with fireballs and his lasers tell campers they have to approach you.

Captain Falcon has good range, fast movement and a Side B to close space on zoning.

Link can block fireballs while walking if you're delicate with the stick.

Peach can fly over most zoning.

Falco's reflector comes out on frame 1 to counter zoning.

Ness and Lucan have PSI Magnet for magical projectiles (most of them).

That's not even all of them. The zoning characters have techniques to deal with other zoners as well. The fireball game in Ultimate is complicated so it's easy to get upset but it isn't going away.

If you hate camping like I do I suggest playing a fast character like Greninja, Fox, Sheik, Falcon, Wolf?, PT (Squirtle), Wario, Yoshi, Sonic, etc.

 

[rlwrgh]

I think you may find the swordie style appealing. On those I personally started with Ike as his playstyle in my opinion is much simpler and less option overloaded but still has tools to get in. In my opinion the best anti zoners have good mobility and high priority to clank with the projectiles so perhaps luncina/chrom?

 

[Technourgos]

I don't understand. Sakurai's team nerfed projectiles against shields, seemingly because people complained, rather than learned. If anything, there are a lot of characters who can absorb, reflect, pocket, or counter. I was happy B&K didn't have any of those after Joker and Hero.

I think a term needs to be made to describe what happens when too many characters are added into a single game who end up with similar move sets to those of others. Perhaps move creep or something. ("Move, creep!") Considering characters are limited to swords, firearms, or fisticuffs, it's no surprise to have more gunners.

 

[Silask20]

I don't understand. Sakurai's team nerfed projectiles against shields, seemingly because people complained, rather than learned. If anything, there are a lot of characters who can absorb, reflect, pocket, or counter. I was happy B&K didn't have any of those after Joker and Hero.

I think a term needs to be made to describe what happens when too many characters are added into a single game who end up with similar move sets to those of others. Perhaps move creep or something. ("Move, creep!") Considering characters are limited to swords, firearms, or fisticuffs, it's no surprise to have more gunners.

It doesnt have anything to do with learning how to deal with them im just tired of always having to deal with them and not having more new options for my playstyle.

They cater to these spam characters because its better for casual players who wanna just spam. I want more anti projectile melee based classes

 

[Technourgos]

It doesnt have anything to do with learning how to deal with them im just tired of always having to deal with them and not having more new options for my playstyle.

They cater to these spam characters because its better for casual players who wanna just spam. I want more anti projectile melee based classes

Then learn new options.

Nice assumption and complete disregard for zoners who take this game seriously. I doubt you have any evidence to back up that assumption, too. SSBU doesn't even appear remotely close to catering to casual players. I'd think that SSBM players who have gone to play SSBU and have stuck around says something about the competitiveness of SSBU. While there are characters who have projectiles, not all characters who have projectiles are zoners, and it's zoners who rely heavily on projectiles. I'm not an expert on every character, so I'll have to settle with picking out who I think is a zoner based on my experience against players who relied heavily on projectiles.

Spoiler

I didn't count echo fighters because they're mostly the same as their original. That's 20 characters out of 74 characters, or 27% of the roster. I suppose it can seem like much, depending on how often you encounter each on, but they're not the only ones.

 

[Silask20]

Then learn new options.

Nice assumption and complete disregard for zoners who take this game seriously. I doubt you have any evidence to back up that assumption, too. SSBU doesn't even appear remotely close to catering to casual players. I'd think that SSBM players who have gone to play SSBU and have stuck around says something about the competitiveness of SSBU. While there are characters who have projectiles, not all characters who have projectiles are zoners, and it's zoners who rely heavily on projectiles. I'm not an expert on every character, so I'll have to settle with picking out who I think is a zoner based on my experience against players who relied heavily on projectiles.

Spoiler

I didn't count echo fighters because they're mostly the same as their original. That's 20 characters out of 74 characters, or 27% of the roster. I suppose it can seem like much, depending on how often you encounter each on, but they're not the only ones.

Ive come to learn zoning in this game is a fancy word for spam. Not everyone abuses the “zone-ing” or spam abilities. But id say the majority do. Its like when you’re dealing with people who spam jump. Sure u can deal with it but its annoying because you’re constantly looking for an opening to move in. Id imagine im relatively fun to fight, i keep my feet on the ground most of the match, i dont use projectiles minus bowsers fire which isn’t spammable since it has DR (all projectiles should have a diminishing returns of some type) and i dont spam any one ability repeatedly even if its working. Its sad i only run into players like me maybe 10% of the time or less.

In reality though, i blame the devs for allowing it. If all special activated projectiles had a cooldown or a DR the game would be better. Casuals dont even try to pick up most melee based characters instead favoring someone like lucas, link, belmont, ness etc characters that can beat a superior player simply by having hard to counter spam abilities

 

[Coolboy]

Ive come to learn zoning in this game is a fancy word for spam. Not everyone abuses the “zone-ing” or spam abilities. But id say the majority do. Its like when you’re dealing with people who spam jump. Sure u can deal with it but its annoying because you’re constantly looking for an opening to move in. Id imagine im relatively fun to fight, i keep my feet on the ground most of the match, i dont use projectiles minus bowsers fire which isn’t spammable since it has DR (all projectiles should have a diminishing returns of some type) and i dont spam any one ability repeatedly even if its working. Its sad i only run into players like me maybe 10% of the time or less.

In reality though, i blame the devs for allowing it. If all special activated projectiles had a cooldown or a DR the game would be better. Casuals dont even try to pick up most melee based characters instead favoring someone like lucas, link, belmont, ness etc characters that can beat a superior player simply by having hard to counter spam abilities

Toon Link is 1 of my top 3 fave characters, and yeah i use my specials!, i try to keep my distance and hit people with arrows/boomerangs/bombs but do you know why i don't see why i should stop this? because most of the time it WORKS! if something won't work then i won't use it,

there were only a few matches where using projectiles had no use so i rarely used them but for me it all depends on my opponent(s) ^^''

i also been in situations i was a stock behind but already being on my last stock with high damage, i sometimes managed to get my opponent to their last stock and over 50% damage with just this playstyle but even though i lost i still made them sweat a little haha
if i decided to play as you call it ''fairly'' and only up close i would had been KOed alot sooner in many matches

this is why you shouldn't blame the playstyle but you should try to deal with it somehow, my dude i would suggest anti projectile characters for you!
then i mean characters like Ness/Lucas for example, i can really say when i play Toon Link i do NOT like to fight a Lucas/Ness >~>

when it comes to losing..if you lost then you lost then it's up to you to figure out what you did wrong or could had done better but every pro competitive player does this right?

 

[Technourgos]

Ive come to learn zoning in this game is a fancy word for spam.

False. To use Berathen's definitions: Spacing is when you move your character or place your attacks in ways that keep your character safe. Zoning is when you use your attacks, or threat of attacks, to limit your opponent's spacing options. Anyone can spam. It's just easier to observe projectile spam. I'm sure you spam a lot with your main, but I doubt you'd call that zoning. You might not even be aware of it. Whirling Fortress out of shield when your opponent gets close or lands on you when you're shielding? Spam. Running off-stage with f-air most of the time to intercept your opponent's recovery? Spam.

Not everyone abuses the “zone-ing” or spam abilities.

Of course they do. Using the same combos can count as spamming as well.

But id say the majority do. Its like when you’re dealing with people who spam jump. Sure u can deal with it but its annoying because you’re constantly looking for an opening to move in. Id imagine im relatively fun to fight, i keep my feet on the ground most of the match, i dont use projectiles minus bowsers fire which isn’t spammable since it has DR (all projectiles should have a diminishing returns of some type) and i dont spam any one ability repeatedly even if its working.

If something is working, keep doing it. There's no reason to care what your opponent thinks or how he feels. Unless you're not interested in winning.

In reality though, i blame the devs for allowing it. If all special activated projectiles had a cooldown or a DR the game would be better.

They do. Projectiles in this game lose the amount of damage dealt and the knock-back, even when the opponent shields the attack. This is a new mechanic not featured in previous Smash titles. The only way for any attack to suffer from diminishing returns in previous games was if it connected. When you used another attack, it would begin refreshing your other attacks. So if I used Charge Shot and it hit you, it's not going to do 26% damage anymore. It might go up to 25%, but even then, I'd have to use at least up to ten attacks to refresh Charge Shot so it would deal 25% damage and the same knock-back as before. If I wanted to, I could have grabbed my opponent and pummeled him or her ten times to refresh all my other attacks. My pummel would be weaker, though.

Casuals dont even try to pick up most melee based characters instead favoring someone like lucas, link, belmont, ness etc characters that can beat a superior player simply by having hard to counter spam abilities

Maybe they're choosing those characters for reasons other than spamming. Spamming isn't going to "beat a superior player". My friend picked up Simon because he likes Castlevania. My brother used Ganondorf (he mains Ness) and defeated my friend plenty of times. It's because my brother knew how to deal with Simon. It's because he baited my friend into throwing out an axe or holy water and got around it.

 

[link2702]

Better idea.

Let’s make the characters who don’t have projectiles have a reliable way to deal with them.

You haven’t experienced true pain till you try and play as ganondorf and get put against a dhd, belmont, tlink, ylink, basically everyone with a decent-great projectile game.

 

[KatKit]

Your wish may come, if we ever get Heihachi.

In the meantime, try to adapt. There are safe ways to approach/punish projectile spam. As big as Ultimate's roster is, there are only a handful of true zoners in the game.

 

[JiggyNinja]

Id imagine im relatively fun to fight, i keep my feet on the ground most of the match, i dont use projectiles minus bowsers fire which isn’t spammable since it has DR (all projectiles should have a diminishing returns of some type) and i dont spam any one ability repeatedly even if its working.

Sounds like you'd be fun to farm GSP off of. Seriously, Bowser's Fair has a godly big hitbox and his Nair can do a ton of damage if you connect all the hits properly. A falling Nair can also set up for followups. His Bair is strong with a very horizontal launch angle. With everyone is Smash Ultimate getting a 3 frame jump squat all the heavies had their air game massively improved. Taking pride in "keeping your feet on the ground" is stupid. Bowser is very acrobatic in this game, so take full advantage of that.

In reality though, i blame the devs for allowing it. If all special activated projectiles had a cooldown or a DR the game would be better.

Every attack (not just projectiles) already does have a cool down. No matter how fast you mash a button, there is a limit to how quickly an attack can be repeated. That's the amount of cooldown the devs determined was appropriate.

Casuals dont even try to pick up most melee based characters instead favoring someone like lucas, link, belmont, ness etc characters that can beat a superior player simply by having hard to counter spam abilities

I actually just fought a Ness last night and won. With Bowser. On an FD stage. I only got hit by half his PK Fires because I shielded or jump-Faired over the rest. For some reason he didn't want to rematch me.

It takes some chutzpah to simply believe that you're the stronger player, and you're just losing to cheap spam. What's probably really happening is that you're being far too stupidly aggressive and just running headfirst into everything without enough caution. I have the same habit, and I've been trying to train myself away from it. I had this other match before as Chrom against a Duck Hunt. First game he walled me out completely with the stupid can and clay pigeon. Second game, I played more cautiously and actually watched what he was doing so I could stay safe and react. I won that game. My Chrom is not good at all, but even I was able to adapt against a very dedicated zoning character and the challenge was a pure thrill.

You're just salty.

 

[Ice-N-Space]

Their not so hard to deal with I just keep jumping over them.