Can Someone explain why Walk off edges are bad?

[ICANTCOUNT123456]

Yeah... please explain

 

[Dreadlord Santa]

They're bad because someone can stand just inside the blast zone of the stage and shield-grab their opponent, backthrowing them to their doom regardless of the strength of the throw or their damage. It just gives the defender a big advantage, as the opponent has to attack eventually, and when they do, the guy on the edge can just dodge the attack and throw them to their doom.

 

[malesretmit12]

They aren't. It's just tournament players who think that they are cheap (apparently because of Fox for some reason...). There's nothing wrong with them, I actually prefer them.

 

[Anther]

umm.. can't DDD chaingrab heavier characters of the cast right off the edge?
Even so, offensive options in Melee as you guys are speaking of outweigh the defensive options of sitting by the walk off edge... so you're kind of wrong.

Fox can waveshine multiple characters across stages and kill them off the side in melee.

 

[-Ran]

It promotes cheap tactics by certain characters that have really, really great horizontal smashes/throws/combos. There's no chance for getting out of it, and thus it becomes a camp battle. =/

 

[Knyaguy]

Mewtwo's back throw.

 

[altir]

just about everyone's back-throw.

 

[Meteor!]

Dedede can chainthrow 21 characters inescapably off the edge.

 

[Turbo Ether]

This is dumb. It's like saying it's cheap to camp near the edge in Soul Calibur, where you can toss someone over the edge for a quick ring out.

 

[G-X]

This is dumb. It's like saying it's cheap to camp near the edge in Soul Calibur, where you can toss someone over the edge for a quick ring out.

This guy knows that the ****'s up

Nothing is "cheap". There are effective tactics, and there are ineffective tactics.

Now, apparently, Fox can't waveshine in Brawl, so it's up to the community leaders to determine whether DDD's chaingrab and Falco's laser lock are unbalancing enough to warrant a ban on walk-off stages.

 

[Ekul]

Well, Dedede can not only chainthrow, but hold characters inside his mouth and shoot them off the stage. It's not like they can do much about it, you can't do anything while you're a star.

 

[susu_atari]

You may think that walk-off stages are fine, but there's no doubt that it gives some characters an unfair advantage. The advantage is small enough not to matter in casual play, however.

You'd probably think differently if you were playing for money, though wouldn't you?

 

[Austin55]

Hey, while we are asking why tournament players do certian things, I have a question. Why do competitive players always use alternate costumes?

 

[Ekul]

Hey, while we are asking why tournament players do certian things, I have a question. Why do competitive players always use alternate costumes?

Most people do that, I think. I'm always green because it's easier not to lose yourself if you play one color.

 

[Tinkerer]

You may think that walk-off stages are fine, but there's no doubt that it gives some characters an unfair advantage. The advantage is small enough not to matter in casual play, however.

You'd probably think differently if you were playing for money, though wouldn't you?

Eh, just like having more platforms than 1 gives some characters advantages, or how Final Destination inevitably gives a few characters a slight upperhand.

>_>

 

[Damax]

DDD or Ice climber's chain throw his the main reason as of brawl for now. it might be thought over, some might be avaible as counter pick, so far I haven't seen an ''official'' list for tournies, and you can always play friendlies.

 

[Ryven]

Well, Dedede can not only chainthrow, but hold characters inside his mouth and shoot them off the stage. It's not like they can do much about it, you can't do anything while you're a star.

Well, in Melee you can break out of star immediately on leaving Kirby's mouth, close enough to just start hitting him while he's lagging. And by immediately, I mean like... on top of him. Mash buttons faster.

I believe it's the same in Brawl, with both DeDeDe and Kirby.

 

[VivaLaPika]

So it basically gives certain people a 'Win' button. If you choose do this, why are you playing the game at all? Walk offs are fine as long as you know the people you're playing with are not going to abuse them to stroke their egos. It might be a problem with the "With Anyone" online mode, though.

 

[x4FoSho4x]

How about I just out smart the person in the favorable position and throw them off the edge instead, which isn't really hard due to the things they can do being limited.

 

[Joshua368]

I don't play by any sort of tournament rules, but I hate and avoid walk-off edges simply because more often than not it degrades the game into an edge camp-fest with really fast and lame KOs.

Bridge of Eldin is intriguing though...

 

[Pi]

Look, these stages are banned only in tournaments because it's game breaking at higher levels of play. People with big throws have a huge *REALLY BIG* advantage over their opponents, and the matches not only wouldn't be fun for either opponent, but not fun to watch in general.


In melee walk off's were banned because of fox's wave shine (lots of people played fox and could do the waveshine easily) and I think to some extent samus' extending grapple. It covered a huge distance and homed in. The person couldn't get near.

Aside from melee, seeing as how there are still chaingrabs and big throws that could knock you out cheaply at 0%, walk off stages will most likely still be banned.


If you don't like how it's done then don't play by those rules? I'm gonna assume (most accurately) that anyone arguing against the banning of walk off edges doesn't play in tournaments, or actually takes some satisfaction out of cheap kills?


Either way, if you don't play in tournaments then you don't have to worry about their rules.

 

[Anarchist_Chase]

i dont really get this. just dont go near them if theyre on the edge.

 

[Pi]

But we're talking about tournaments here. If the game was all about staying on opposite sides of the map we wouldn't have much of a tourny scene now would we?

The stages we have to choose from put players in a position that forces them to interact with their opponent. Forces them to think fast and forces match to end relatively quickly.

 

[ICANTCOUNT123456]

But we're talking about tournaments here. If the game was all about staying on opposite sides of the map we wouldn't have much of a tourny scene now would we?

The stages we have to choose from put players in a position that forces them to interact with their opponent. Forces them to think fast and forces match to end relatively quickly.

Fox can jump of the edge and waveshine an opponent in mid air too. >_>

 

[goodkid]

They aren't really bad. Brawl is a new game, so every stage should be retested.

 

[G-X]

The stages we have to choose from put players in a position that forces them to interact with their opponent. Forces them to think fast and forces match to end relatively quickly.

"Interaction" is overrated.

Sigh.

 

[methinkso]

Fox can jump of the edge and waveshine an opponent in mid air too. >_>

He has to get them out there first, and the opponent may still be able to make it back from that situation. The intention isn't to ban KOs in general. >_>

And that's just called shining, btw. Waveshining is shine, wavedash, shine, wavedash, repeat.

 

[regorris]

I really think it is because 'pro' players don't want to admit that they are just as scrubby as the 'casual' players that they look down their noses at. (but at least we can all agree that we hate Icicle Mt.)

Really, the no-walk-off-stages ruling was an attempt to band-aid a broken mechanic in the game. It hurt awesome characters like fox(waveshine) and marth(walls o' pain), but it also really destroyed lower tier characters like DK, Mewtwo, and Bowser who really relied on their grabs as a way of life.

Also, wouldn't hanging out near the edge of a stage be considered stalling? Lastly, if they really wanted to nerf the waveshine, and cheesy projectiles then Final Dest' should have been just as banned as Kingdom 2.

 

[SinisterLizard]

Dude, are you guys that dense? They were only banned in Melee because of infinite shine stuff from Fox.

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

Dude, do your guys's peoples suck?

 

[Lovage 805]

Dedede infinite CG on a walk off = easy gimp that can start at 0% and can be done at 999%