Can playing sm4sh competitively be considered an Art?

[Baby_Sneak]

Basically the title. I've read and heard a lot of," you're suppose to play this way, this is the optimal style," when referring to how to play a great majority of the characters of the game (defensive and non-approaching). I've also read many characters (mewtwo in particular and marth) are to be played defensive and if I wanted an offensive/rushdown character, I'd need to play someone else.
With such advice, how can I express myself in a game that appears to be severely rigid? Am I missing something? Are these people wrong?

( wedl!! Emblem Lord and @FeelMeUp cuz y'all smart as heck and i know will give me great responses).


EDIT: I have a feeling someone is going to say," this isn't specific to smash 4. A lot of other fighting games boil down to the optimal strategies and setups." If this runs in your mind, then let me just broaden it up then: would any of you guys consider playing fighters competitively an art? Are you allowed to express yourself in fighting games period?

 

[MarioManTAW]

I think the answer is yes and no.
With any character, there is more than one way to play them. Some let you play however you want and reward you for it, whereas others are a bit more linear where though you can still play however you want, there is a clearly optimal strategy which will yield better results in the long run.
So with most characters, one strategy will be more optimal than others, but with very few of them will the difference be great enough to force you to switch.

My advice: play however you feel the character should be played. But, should you choose a suboptimal strategy, be aware that your results may suffer as a result.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Totally character dependent imo.

It really depends on their options. Doesn't matter how much you want to rushdown with say Ganondorf. He doesn't have the tools to do it well.

You can express yourself in many ways in fighting games then just general play style. Tricks and different set-ups are a great way to differentiate yourself and express your creativity with a character. But generally the best way to go about expressing yourself with a character is to FIRST pick a character that aligns with what you want to do in the first place. Otherwise you just end up fighting that characters design instead of fulfilling the actual goal of trying to expressive/creative.

 

[LucinaNab1]

I say yes. Anything that requires daily practice and work is an art. It doesn't have to be a pen or a paintbrush. Everything worthy requires skill and hard work, even being a decent person.

Hey, being a good person is an art, then. :D

 

[Kapus]

If you're playing as Greninja, yes

 

[Baby_Sneak]

Totally character dependent imo.

It really depends on their options. Doesn't matter how much you want to rushdown with say Ganondorf. He doesn't have the tools to do it well.

You can express yourself in many ways in fighting games then just general play style. Tricks and different set-ups are a great way to differentiate yourself and express your creativity with a character. But generally the best way to go about expressing yourself with a character is to FIRST pick a character that aligns with what you want to do in the first place. Otherwise you just end up fighting that characters design instead of fulfilling the actual goal of trying to expressive/creative.

After playing a bit of Zard and DK, I have come under this theory of Punish characters and Neutral characters.


See, playing with them, you have little control over what happens in neutral, but you have a ton of control over what happens when in advantage (this goes for basically the entire cast, but more-so for them, with DK's "ding dong" (what a stupid name...) and such, and Zard's throw combos and juggle potential with wing-invincible Utilt Usmash and Head-invincible Uair). The goal with these characters is to get their advantage started and to never let go of it, To try to perform a ToD. These characters are of a punish type (ZSS, Ness, Bowser, DK, Luigi, etc...) and they thrive in advantageous situations. The art behind this is to perform a ToD, on various characters with differing weights, fall speeds, hitbox sizes, 3 frame Nairs or combo breakers, opponent tendencies, further pushback due to percent and knock back, recoveries, ledge options, juggle escape options, etc... trying to perform a ToD is a mountainous goal and one to be honored if achieved.

Neutral-type characters like Pit, ROB, toon link, Villager, sonic, link, marth, etc... controls the battle and makes the opponent do what they want. The art of them is to not get touched. This can prove to be difficult when the opponent can PS w/e aerial and punish immediately, roll to mess with spacing, use burst options, or plays footsies better than you. You can see the art in neutral based on the pacing of the match (slow and methodical vs fast and crazy marvel DBZ active style), the spacing battle (if it's an unclear scramble, or space-consuming battle of territory), etc...

The thing is, it's a spectrum and some characters can somewhat do both like Rosa, bayo, sheik, fox, and other top tiers.

Just a wild theory.

I say yes. Anything that requires daily practice and work is an art. It doesn't have to be a pen or a paintbrush. Everything worthy requires skill and hard work, even being a decent person.

Hey, being a good person is an art, then. :D

Not necessarily. Cleaning is something that can always benefit from improvements, but I wouldn't call it artistic.

I think the answer is yes and no.
With any character, there is more than one way to play them. Some let you play however you want and reward you for it, whereas others are a bit more linear where though you can still play however you want, there is a clearly optimal strategy which will yield better results in the long run.
So with most characters, one strategy will be more optimal than others, but with very few of them will the difference be great enough to force you to switch.

My advice: play however you feel the character should be played. But, should you choose a suboptimal strategy, be aware that your results may suffer as a result.

Playing as D3 is pretty limiting in terms of the neutral. Few neutral tools and limiting mobility to skewer his neutral. However, his advantage state (throw combos, juggling, space consumption, and ledge trapping) is pretty good. I think with this breadth of options in advantage allows this aspect of his play to be expressive.

Maybe characters are expressive in different states of the game (I think my wall of text above describes this too).

If you're playing as Greninja, yes

:/ I personally don't care for watching that frog move.

 

[Pippin (Peregrin Took)]

I'm getting some serious Elite Four Wikstrom vibes here lol...

I suppose in one sense this can be answered with another question. Can playing any sport like football be considered an art? Are the athletes more players of the game or entertainers of the crowd? And that brings up the question of what differentiates an entertainer from an artist. But we do know that competitive sm4sh is a legitimate esport and it's entertaining both to play and watch.

Another way to look at it is, and this might be what Baby Sneak is talking about, is the question of whether playing Sm4sh is art vs. science. This is interesting since Baby Sneak himself was the one who led me to a website that basically broke every fighting game down to frame data, so I guess you could say it is more "rigid" in that regard. I still have a hard time seeing it that way as a student of combat arts where there's so much subjectivity and different ways to handle a situation, but people aren't programmed the way games are. Like life, so many people play the game in such different ways that it could be considered an art.

We can all agree that the game itself can be a form of art though right? I feel like Brawl was Sakurai's big art project where he was really allowed to let loose but Melee and Smash 4 are works of art in their own right. Melee was just pressed more for time and Smash 4 was more catered to the fans.

 

[Crystanium]

"The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power." (Art - OED; emphasis mine)

No. The purpose of Sm4sh in a competitive scene is meant to be about winning. You could call it an e-sport if you'd like.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

"The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power." (Art - OED; emphasis mine)

No. The purpose of Sm4sh in a competitive scene is meant to be about winning. You could call it an e-sport if you'd like.

"Wow, look at that combo!"

"Wow, can you believe he teched that? Insane!"

"look at that read! Godlike!"

While it's not the primary purpose, it's an side effect of what competitive smash brings to the table.

I think I've found MY answer, but others can chime in on their own beliefs.

 

[wedl!!]

"The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power." (Art - OED; emphasis mine)

No. The purpose of Sm4sh in a competitive scene is meant to be about winning. You could call it an e-sport if you'd like.

How are sports not forms of artistic expression? When you look at players like David Ortiz or Justin Wong, you can plainly see the heart and passion they put into their craft. They're obviously playing baseball or Marvel to come out on top, but their personality cleanly shines through. Doing something in order to be the winner does not inherently make your work devoid of artistry or humanity.

 

[Axel311]

ehhh, I'm inclined to say no. Creating a game certainly is. But playing it competitively? If you open the definition that wide you could call almost anything art. You could argue it, I guess, but I feel the definition has to have an arbitrary line drawn somewhere.

 

[Crystanium]

"Wow, look at that combo!"

"Wow, can you believe he teched that? Insane!"

"look at that read! Godlike!"

While it's not the primary purpose, it's an side effect of what competitive smash brings to the table.

I think I've found MY answer, but others can chime in on their own beliefs.

You can say that about anything. That doesn't make it art. Unless you want to place it next to Kazimir Malevich's White on White or Black Circle.

How are sports not forms of artistic expression? When you look at players like David Ortiz or Justin Wong, you can plainly see the heart and passion they put into their craft. They're obviously playing baseball or Marvel to come out on top, but their personality cleanly shines through. Doing something in order to be the winner does not inherently make your work devoid of artistry or humanity.

I fail to see how heart and passion make something an art. That would imply that anything can be art. Even eating a cookie. Sports aren't forms of artistic expression because that is not the purpose sports serve. If you want intent, then you'd have to know the intentions of David Ortiz and Justin Wong to say, "They're exhibiting art." To think intent is what solely makes something art really reduces it.

 

[DunnoBro]

Maybe the way Void plays it lol