Camping ~ Legit, or it should quit?

[M15t3R E]

I don't want to come across as offensive in any way. Let me just make that clear first and foremost.

The other day I played an EXTREMELY campy Wolf. He was the copy-and-pasted stereotype! Seriously, he was in place like he was guarding the coordinates of a treasure or something. I was thinking, WTF the whole time...

This Wolf absolutely forced me to make a complete 180 departure from how I always play. I tried to camp him back, but I don't think my character is good against campy Wolfs. I lost the set, narrowly.

Needless to say, the match was horrendously boring and aggravating and made me utter words under my breath that I'll choose not repeat in this forum.

I am entirely sure not all of you play this way. Many of you must be quite respectable Wolfs. However...

Here's the question: Do the majority of you look down upon Wolf players like this one as ones who give you good players a bad rep.? Or do you see it as a legitimate strategy that can and should be abused?

 

[Sesshomuronay]

There are times when you should and should not camp. If your opponent is angry then it means its working.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Are u using Pikachu against him?

 

[Ishiey]

That's a legitimate strategy. If you suck. I mean, camping like crazy works if it's what you have to do to win, but it's such a disgrace. Like Sess said, it's to piss people off, but really now, it's easily countered. Shield dash to approach, or just keep jumping over them and spamming B yourself if you play pikachu.

But yes, this is something we look down on, if it's just mindless spam. Intelligent spam is different, but that's not what this sounds like.

 

[M15t3R E]

Are u using Pikachu against him?

I was, yes. I had no idea what character to counterpick with. But it was just wifi. Even still I believe this occurrence is worth mentioning.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Use your Shield more, play smarter, ...

 

[M15t3R E]

Use your Shield more, play smarter, ...

How?
I forgot to mention, he not only camped but spammed his lasers. There was no approaching, even with shielding as well as possible.
Then I tried side-stepping to get closer. But I just ended up with a f-smash to the face...

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Fsmash can be shielded and badly punished. You do know what Shieldgrabbing is, right?

 

[M15t3R E]

Yes I do, Gheb. Do you realize how fast his f-smash comes out and the range that it has?

Geeze. Obviously you've never been camped like this before.

 

[M15t3R E]

It's a broken technique. It makes people play far differently, and often turns the tables on the person with more skill. So it works well, but it's the lamest strategy in the game. I certainly wouldn't want to be known as that guy who wins tourneys but is incredibly lame and has no respect from the Brawl community...

 

[M15t3R E]

Toon Link is one of my secondaries. I was thinking of possibly countering the camping strategy with bombs. He cannot reflect the explosive damage if I throw it at the perfect distance. Plus, the hylian shield would take care of the lasers if I remain stationary.
Think that would work well?

 

[homicidalrapist]

Don't play online? Seriously, camping and spamming pretty much dominates online. It would be different if it was offline.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

lol @ triple post.

What do you want? Do you want us to tell you, what to do or did you just come here to play a dumb@$$ and know everything better??? If you get hit by fsmash, you made a mistake. Be more careful, play smarter and shield that stupid fsmash. It has a long ending lag so Chain Grab him to 40% and follow it up with an usmash or something like that. If you fail to do that, you should just practise more, become a better player overall, blkah. Go to the Pikachu boards and wtach some good players in the video thread

...

*sigh*

...

tl;dr close thread pl0x

 

[M15t3R E]

lol @ triple post.

What do you want? Do you want us to tell you, what to do or did you just come here to play a dumb@$$ and know everything better??? If you get hit by fsmash, you made a mistake. Be more careful, play smarter and shield that stupid fsmash. It has a long ending lag so Chain Grab him to 40% and follow it up with an usmash or something like that. If you fail to do that, you should just practise more, become a better player overall, blkah. Go to the Pikachu boards and wtach some good players in the video thread

...

*sigh*

...

tl;dr close thread pl0x

I did manage to shield his f-smash and punish him for it, and CG him quite a few times. Just not consistantly. As homicidalrapist (above) said, camping and spamming dominates online. There's nothing you can keep on doing to counter it. Oh well. Thanks for trying to help guys.

And FYI, I am VERY active in the Pikachu Discussion Boards. Additionally, you pull up any Anther video and I bet you my bottom dollar that I've seen it. Lastly, I'm already a tournament-worthy Pikachu. As I explained, the Wolf made me play completely differently, so I was not able to display my actual and usual skill. So you judged my skill quite incorrectly and ignorantly. Good day.

Yes, close thread now pl0x.

 

[Anther]

Grab'em =x! It's not really camping if he's just standing there.

 

[Collective of Bears]

I don't camp to Use annoying-*** taunts spam lasers. I hardly ever camp. In my opinion, it cheapens the match. I've played campers before, and I hate it. So I try to have a heart and not do so.

 

[momochuu]

I am entirely sure not all of you play this way. Many of you must be quite respectable Wolfs. However...

A majority of the ones I played camp and spam to hell. =/

 

[M15t3R E]

Anther's the 2nd best teacher (experience being the best). It's worth a shot. When I did have the chance to punish I probably could have punished better with grab combos.
I'm gonna fight this Wolf again real soon...

 

[Megavitamins]

Umm, power shield? Shad? Roll? False ariel approaches? Learn his paterns? Btw if you're Pika, it should be easy consideirng how bad Pika can screw wolf up with chain grabs.

 

[xX'Mitsurugi'Xx]

All wolves that camp and spam are very easy to read, predictable, repetitive and if lags not a factor, your gonna need to be able to catch on with in the first stock, mindgames and propper spacing destroy campers, it's the aggressive wolf player you've gotta watch out for. Wolf noobs will camp and spam, hell even the exp'd wolf will do it on occasion if they feel they're at the match-up disadvantage or if the opponent continues to fall for the same tactic for an easy win, more than likely the wolf is gonna capitalize.

 

[ArcPoint]

I know how you feel, online is an absolute pain in the butt, powershielding/dodging it really isn't an option... best thing to do is jump and use your neutral B (Do those and lasers cancel out? ) if they cancel, then just keep on spamming those, if they don't full hop and do them, that way the reach him and disrupt the flow of lasers.

Just don't take WiFi matches seriously, unless you're getting outcamped in-person.

 

[teekay]

Playing online shouldn't make anything more or less fair, it just means you have to practice adjusting your timing slightly to do all the same stuff.

Forcing you to change your style is a completely legitimate thing for an opponent to do. The best players are the best because they are adaptable. They know their character (and their opponent's character) so well that they can change their play style on a dime if they have to.

Honestly if you're suggesting that you can't approach him because of fsmash you need to reevaluate your tactics pretty heavily. Gheb explained in perfect detail what you are doing wrong but you refused to listen to him... if you come here asking for help from Wolf mains be prepared to accept what they tell you. Wolf's fsmash comes out fast and has a lot of range, but it is neither fast nor far enough to guarantee a hit, and if you adjust to it, it will never catch you unless you have already made a mistake. Your problem is simply that you need to train yourself to expect these things. In other words you just need to play this guy more, so you can get used to the tactics he is using and it will become second nature for you to do things like shield fsmash and punish it.

In other words, if Wolf's fsmash is giving you that much trouble, it's your fault, not your opponent's. You will know you are getting somewhere when you start playing a Wolf whose aerials become your worst nightmare.

 

[Heroes_Never_Die]

If you consistently lose to someone who does nothing but camp, then you need improvement.

 

[M15t3R E]

I've never had to change my playstyle that drastically. I'm talking about a complete 180 degree difference here. I've never been forced to adapt that much that suddenly. It's enough to throw ANYONE off their game.

I did listen to Gheb. Just so you know, I had already tried his suggestions and it didn't work. You can't approach the ways he suggests. I thought you guys would know since you know Wolf inside and out but apparently you guys haven't really been camped like this yourselves...

Wolfs who fight with aerials and actually bother to make approaches are not ones I should fear at all. As for these campy Wolfs, I know I can learn to defeat their playstyle with experience. But I'm turning to you guys for helpful tips to expedite the learning process. Tough luck for me on that, though.

Heroes Never Die- who said anything about consistently? I haven't played a campy Wolf in forever! Seriously, please stop beating that old drum. You heard that line from others but don't even know if it's true because you lack the experience to decide on your own. If this Wolf were to fight me like a man, I would dominate him. It is I who possesses heaps more skill. Camping strategies such as that one turns the tables on opponents who have more skill.

Camping and spamming lasers and swatting away with smashes is an easy way to negate every AT in my arsenal. It is too easy a strategy for being so effective. That's why it is broken. But it's not my opponent's fault. It's the fault of the game developers...

 

[J4pu]

learn to use the edit button
and if you are playing to win you abuse whatever you can effectively abuse, it sounds like this was tearing up your playstyle so it was in fact a very good strategy for the wolf to use, now if you are playing with your friends for fun and they do this that's when you slap the controller out of their hands and punish them for having a weak grip.

 

[Excellence]

I don't want to come across as offensive in any way. Let me just make that clear first and foremost.

The other day I played an EXTREMELY campy Wolf. He was the copy-and-pasted stereotype! Seriously, he was in place like he was guarding the coordinates of a treasure or something. I was thinking, WTF the whole time...

This Wolf absolutely forced me to make a complete 180 departure from how I always play. I tried to camp him back, but I don't think my character is good against campy Wolfs. I lost the set, narrowly.

Needless to say, the match was horrendously boring and aggravating and made me utter words under my breath that I'll choose not repeat in this forum.

I am entirely sure not all of you play this way. Many of you must be quite respectable Wolfs. However...

Here's the question: Do the majority of you look down upon Wolf players like this one as ones who give you good players a bad rep.? Or do you see it as a legitimate strategy that can and should be abused?

It's a legitimate strategy that can and should be abused, if it's working. However, you being stupid enough to continually fall for it or be held back by it, especially seeing as though you were Pikachu, you shouldn't have let that happen.

I was, yes. I had no idea what character to counterpick with. But it was just wifi. Even still I believe this occurrence is worth mentioning.

.
Why do you try Falco... It doesn't take much to SHDL and ChainGrab > Spike. Falco is too easy to play and a nice counter to Wolf.

Yes I do, Gheb. Do you realize how fast his f-smash comes out and the range that it has?

Geeze. Obviously you've never been camped like this before.

Do you realize you can space yourself out of grab range, but close enough for the FSmash to put him in shieldgrab distance? Obviously not since you got camped to death.

Toon Link is one of my secondaries. I was thinking of possibly countering the camping strategy with bombs. He cannot reflect the explosive damage if I throw it at the perfect distance. Plus, the hylian shield would take care of the lasers if I remain stationary.
Think that would work well?

Why don't you think about that. Remaining stationary means you cannot move. The lasers will continually push you until you get pushed off the ledge. Then, you get ledeguarded/camped to death. If you start hoping over the lasers occasionally, you'll probably mess up and your opponent should be smart enough to hop a few lasers.

I've never had to change my playstyle that drastically. I'm talking about a complete 180 degree difference here. I've never been forced to adapt that much that suddenly. It's enough to throw ANYONE off their game.

I did listen to Gheb. Just so you know, I had already tried his suggestions and it didn't work. You can't approach the ways he suggests. I thought you guys would know since you know Wolf inside and out but apparently you guys haven't really been camped like this yourselves...

Wolfs who fight with aerials and actually bother to make approaches are not ones I should fear at all. As for these campy Wolfs, I know I can learn to defeat their playstyle with experience. But I'm turning to you guys for helpful tips to expedite the learning process. Tough luck for me on that, though.

Heroes Never Die- who said anything about consistently? I haven't played a campy Wolf in forever! Seriously, please stop beating that old drum. You heard that line from others but don't even know if it's true because you lack the experience to decide on your own. If this Wolf were to fight me like a man, I would dominate him. It is I who possesses heaps more skill. Camping strategies such as that one turns the tables on opponents who have more skill.

Camping and spamming lasers and swatting away with smashes is an easy way to negate every AT in my arsenal. It is too easy a strategy for being so effective. That's why it is broken. But it's not my opponent's fault. It's the fault of the game developers...

Don't tell others what they have or have not faced, and do NOT generalize because all of your posts have a somewhat degrading tone to them which pisses me off. Maybe you suck at the excecution of the strategies they proposed? Perhaps it is not the method you're using, but who's using it that makes the difference. If you can't avoid camp with PIKACHU I suggest you watch Aether who has an infamous ledgecamp game that can keep you safe and rack up damage. What I suggest is PowerShielding to approach so your just in FSmash range, bait it, roll back and use DSmash then combo him. If that's not working start full hopping lasers and falling with FAirs.

 

[Kikuichimonji]

Camping and spamming lasers and swatting away with smashes is an easy way to negate every AT in my arsenal. It is too easy a strategy for being so effective. That's why it is broken. But it's not my opponent's fault. It's the fault of the game developers...

1- That's not how you use ATs. You use them when they're prudent to do something you normally couldn't. They are not instant win buttons.
2- If you don't like the game, then stop playing it.
3- This is not the developer's fault. This is not your opponent's fault. This is YOUR FAULT. If you can't beat a campy Wolf, then you need to learn to approach better (also, online doesn't count for anything because you can't react as fast. Good for fun, not good for practice). You use Pikachu? Don't your projectiles cancel each other's out? Also, the jump-> air dodge is a good strategy. You just need to be mindful of the spacing. Wolf's fsmash has impressive range, yes. Just don't land in it. If you can get just outside it with the air dodge, then you can bait an fsmash. Otherwise, you're close enough to jump over his beam and hit him with an aerial or thundershock.

I am one of those people that camps you. I know the strategy is beatable because people have beat me doing it. It only beats those who don't understand the game well enough to beat it. If you want to get better at the game, don't run from your failures. Don't hide behind "he won't fight me like a man." He's probably mad at YOU, for falling into such a poor trap! The only way you're going to get better is if you approach it head on. There are solutions, you just aren't seeing them.

That said, I reiterate that online sucks because of the lag.

 

[xX'Mitsurugi'Xx]

I thought you guys would know since you know Wolf inside and out but apparently you guys haven't really been camped like this yourselves...

You must be kidding...... your talking to the ppl who main wolf, we f***ing pioneered the camp and spam tactic for those of us who have mained wolf since the game first came out, as I'm sure some of the ppl can attest (as can I) We've played 1000+ matches online and off, we've seen every tactic this game has to offer about our char so far, we study frame data, critique each others wolf proformance video's, share combo's and compare match-ups, so if this guy camp-fest is just that unpenetrable vs a character that wrecks wolf in certain ways, I want his fc right now, because he must be a master in disguise or your mindgame severely lack.

 

[Fugu15]

I've played master camper wolves. It's not really that easy a strategy at all. If you can space in 5-8 blasters in a row and then have the opponent jump into a dsmash, that requires amazing spacing if your opponent is a good player.

If you are playing someone who is running that strategy, your best bet is to just frustrate them. Especially with pika, you can outspace a blaster wolf with your thunders. Especially on stages with platforms. Get them to abandon this strategy and if you can't, well they are just better than you.

You won't find much mercy on the wolf boards for pika. You know how many pikas just short hop the b, furiously mash their c-stick down, and just camp for chain grab. That rat kinda deserves to be spammed and if you can't outspace the spam game, you just got outplayed.

 

[Sesshomuronay]

I've played master camper wolves. It's not really that easy a strategy at all. If you can space in 5-8 blasters in a row and then have the opponent jump into a dsmash, that requires amazing spacing if your opponent is a good player.

If you are playing someone who is running that strategy, your best bet is to just frustrate them. Especially with pika, you can outspace a blaster wolf with your thunders. Especially on stages with platforms. Get them to abandon this strategy and if you can't, well they are just better than you.

You won't find much mercy on the wolf boards for pika. You know how many pikas just short hop the b, furiously mash their c-stick down, and just camp for chain grab. That rat kinda deserves to be spammed and if you can't outspace the spam game, you just got outplayed.

Lol 5-8 shots? What stages do you play on hyrule? Pikachu cant outspace with thunder because its not very good for spacing like the way your thinking.

If you wanna beat wolf spammers you have to not be a noob yourself.

 

[Darth JoBak]

jump, use your projectile, qac, your faster mobility wise

then again if spamming gives you that much trouble then practice against it, it is easy to overcome eventually


wow someone close this thread

 

[M15t3R E]

Some of you are actually giving me advice I think may be practical. Thanks to those of you.

Things worth mention- SH'ing over the lasers and side-stepping the lasers don't work. The speed at which he spams the lasers negates those approaching strategies. Also, many of you said Pikachu's thunder jolt and Wolf's lasers cancel out. That is not true. Why on Earth would you think that? Try it and you'll see that's incorrect.
So it seems I need to bait him somehow. I'll learn to overcome this nightmare tactic.

However, to those of you who are insinuating that I am a noob... play me please. I am not a scrub Pika. I don't spam d-smash or thunder. I am also adept in pulling off a little thing called QAC combos. So PM me if you think I'm a noob in Brawl.

Again, to the people who helped- Thank you very much.

 

[xX'Mitsurugi'Xx]

Some of you are actually giving me advice I think may be practical. Thanks to those of you.

Things worth mention- SH'ing over the lasers and side-stepping the lasers don't work. The speed at which he spams the lasers negates those approaching strategies. Also, many of you said Pikachu's thunder jolt and Wolf's lasers cancel out. That is not true. Why on Earth would you think that? Try it and you'll see that's incorrect.
So it seems I need to bait him somehow. I'll learn to overcome this nightmare tactic.

However, to those of you who are insinuating that I am a noob... play me please. I am not a scrub Pika. I don't spam d-smash or thunder. I am also adept in pulling off a little thing called QAC combos. So PM me if you think I'm a noob in Brawl.

Again, to the people who helped- Thank you very much.

I'm not writing you off as a noob, I'll gladly face you in combat, just give me a time and if lags not bad, we'll see what you got.

 

[Heroes_Never_Die]

Heroes Never Die- who said anything about consistently? I haven't played a campy Wolf in forever! Seriously, please stop beating that old drum.

If you aren't losing consistently to camping then I quite respectfully ask, "What the **** is the point of this thread?"

You heard that line from others but don't even know if it's true because you lack the experience to decide on your own.

How would you know if I lack experience? I've played Wolfs who camp and those who don't. I use Wolf as a secondary (and may even main him) and make use of camping from time to time, so I know what it's like.

If this Wolf were to fight me like a man, I would dominate him.

This makes you sound like a scrub.

It is I who possesses heaps more skill. Camping strategies such as that one turns the tables on opponents who have more skill.

Wrong. If you possessed heaps more skill than your opponent then you would win consistently (which you mustn't be based on my logic).

 

[rodrigo_ssbb]

I camp and spam a lot sometimes... It's a strategy!

I did this once in a tournament. My opponent was having a bad time against my blaster, so why not continue?

That doesn't work all the time tho... I'm just saying that if your can't handle it the wolves should keep the camping/spamming, so stop all the crying and figure it out how to beat them.

 

[§witch]

Just full hop neutral B while DI'ing towards wolf.

 

[M15t3R E]

Heroes_Never_Die, I wanted this thread to die but now you've forced me to respond.

I have versed many Wolfs who do NOT camp, and I do win the good majority of those matches. Camping Wolfs give me more trouble because it's much more difficult to punish them. You don't have to be a scrub to do poorly against camping strategies.

This thread was made so I can learn to counter the camping strategy in case I encounter it in the future- and I probably will encounter it in the future. I'm attending a big East Coast tournament in November and I wouldn't want to lose to a nooby Wolf. Campy Wolfs = Nooby Wolfs.

Switch, your strategy and many others suggested to me simply don't work. The Wolf just reflects it, moves away, and continues his camping.

I figure if they want to play lame like that I'll move above them over to their side of the field and force them to retreat over and over until they stop camping and try something new. It's the only viable plan I got.

 

[Heroes_Never_Die]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=182000 if you haven't read it yet. Has some good advice.

 

[Kikuichimonji]

Campy Wolfs = Nooby Wolfs.

Don't blame Wolf players for doing what works when they're trying to win. Why bother trying anything fancy when the bread and butter works?

If you're really having trouble with this, you should A) go to the Pikachu boards, because we're obviously not helping you or B) consider picking up a secondary.

 

[Ghost07]

have you tried forcing your opponent to approach?