COMPLETELY VANILLA Mafia | Game Over

[UtopianPoyzin]

My best guess is that Ninja is town and we haven’t even heard anything from them.

 

[Xivii]

Fine with just testing UP so we can move on with the game tbh.

 

[Xivii]

(yeeting)

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Fine with just testing UP so we can move on with the game tbh.

Lol

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Sounds like someone who didn’t read anything that I just said

You can’t convince me lmao

 

[Xivii]

Convince you of what?

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Convince you of what?

That you read literally anything I said and genuinely believe that I’m scum

Poyzin
Chaco
Xivii
Darkpit54
3DSNinja
mercuri
Somitomi
BoomFrog
FrozenFlame

Xivii is probably the sour one out of my town reads it who knows until Day 3

 

[BoomFrog]

I'm phone posting so sorry for the lack of content.

What are you vibing with?

UP seemed to have identical reads and thoughts to me as I read through the thread. Specifically, that Chaco is townie for miller claiming, it would be crazy bold of scum to fake claim so soon. Even though it was obvious later that he really want a miller. Then it felt like people who understood "it" quickly probably were town. Exactly as Frozen described. That was frozen and DP. And UP was town reading them for it while trying not to spill why so he could keep getting reads from that nugget. So more good vibes there.

And do you think you would have this perspective had you not played with UP before? What are the reasons? Is it meta/tone based?

yes. Some of UP's more recent antics are more understandable with meta context. But at that time I was vibing perfectly and would have liked him without meta context.

What are the other reasons?

I need to go to bed so don't have time to figure out the context of this. Let me know if you wanted answers to anything else. I think I've explained my perspective well.

I saw you as town but wrong because I liked your read but disagreed that DP was scummy. Your second post about DP does make me suspicious though, and Frozen has pointed out that DP didn't in fact get it. So I'm going to have to go look back and see what I liked about DP early and re evaluate. You're still middle of the pack but leaning town.

Since all of the above though, you brought up the possibility of scum having false claims. That changes my evaluation so I'll need to think again. Even with that bit I still like UP, but it's possible that I don't like frozen and Chaco as much. Frozen still feels townie though in tone.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

I’m going to sleep on a FrozenFlame/Xivii scumteam and do some carnival tricks in my sleep.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Frozen was very angery so maybe that speaks to something deep inside his soul. Good to note for later, could be genuine annoyance from somebody trying to solve the game or general annoyance that I was being a cocky *****. I don’t have any clues on which is the right answer, but I know it’s easier for scum to blend in if they experience the emotions that they project, so I’d say it probably leans more toward the latter but the people who solve the game after I end up dying can use these interactions to their fullest potential.

 

[Xivii]

That you read literally anything I said and genuinely believe that I’m scum

I'm not sure how you got that from my post.

 

[Xivii]

UP seemed to have identical reads and thoughts to me as I read through the thread. Specifically, that Chaco is townie for miller claiming, it would be crazy bold of scum to fake claim so soon. Even though it was obvious later that he really want a miller. Then it felt like people who understood "it" quickly probably were town. Exactly as Frozen described. That was frozen and DP. And UP was town reading them for it while trying not to spill why so he could keep getting reads from that nugget. So more good vibes there.

I saw you as town but wrong because I liked your read but disagreed that DP was scummy. Your second post about DP does make me suspicious though, and Frozen has pointed out that DP didn't in fact get it. So I'm going to have to go look back and see what I liked about DP early and re evaluate. You're still middle of the pack but leaning town.

The issue I have with this is that there were three overlapping ideas of "it" going around:

1. The setup consists of everyone having watered-down power roles. [Chaco, Pit]
2. The setup consists of everyone having dressed up vanilla roles. [Me, Frozen]
3. The setup consists of watered-down roles and real power roles. [UP]

We weren't all on the same page at all, and still aren't, as UP is still insisting that there are real versions of the PRs floating around. However, we could group all of these under the understanding that the setup is deceptively low powered. So is the benchmark the fact that some players understood that the game was DLP or is it that some players understood that everyone has dressed up VT roles?

If the former, then yes somi does stand out as the only player to have not grasped it. If that is the case, however, it doesn't make sense for you to take Frozen's post as evidence of Darkpit not having got it since he did indeed grasp that the setup was DLP. If the latter, then it doesn't make sense that you singled out DP for this considering Chaco and UP weren't on the same page as me and Frozen either. Additionally, the fact that UP is still arguing for version 3 of the setup ought to spark concern and that you aren't actually vibing at all.

 

[Xivii]

Somi is almost certainly town. The fact that he was the only player not to have grasped that the setup was DLP, and continued not to quite understand after being pressured on it, indicates that he is mateless as they would have informed him after receiving the pressure. Additionally, scum has 2 safe claims to go off of, so they were more likely to grasp the nature of the setup before anyone because of the additional data points.

UP should be yeeted for playing in an anti-town manner (ignoring responses, refusing to claim, attempts at riling people up). However, I do think he is probably town. His assertion that there are real PRs is bizarre, but I do think it's likely an attempt to draw the night kill. As I mentioned before, it may also be that he came into the game believing that his cop safe claim would get him a ride to endgame and so he had an incentive to try and portray the idea that the roles were watered-down versions of the real PRs rather than fluff. The fact that he so strongly took Chaco and Darkpits claims at face value is suggestive of this.

If UP is scum, then his partner is exactly Chaco and no one else. The reason why I threw a Boom/UP team out the window is that UP is highly interactive with his scummates, he either strongly town reads them or strongly scum reads them. His infatuation with and instance that Chaco is town since the start of the game fits the MO.

Still, however, I think we are probably dealing with town!UP based on the progression of his reads. The point I was making earlier with regard to his suspicion of me is that my #62 was very distance-like, but only in a way that I think someone who is ignorant of my alignment would pick up on. The fact that he later came up with the theory that I was chainsaw defending Merc suggests a consistent train of thought, one that comes from a townie with a genuine suspicion.

So I don't want to look in the UP direction unless I am indeed wrong on Darkpit as that would suggest that his read is TMI af.

__________

I don't think Frozen is scum either. His response to my concern showed that he did have a reason to think Darpit didn't get it. I'm also sympathetic to his feelings on UP. I think BoomFrog's reads are too formulaic. It's like an attempt to ride the bandwagon of "getting it." In my post up above, I point out an inconsistency in his reasoning regarding darkpit, and I don't think it's one that comes from a townie who is really reading into who understood the peculiarities of the setup.

So ultimately, I still think the team is probably Darkpit and Boom. If I'm wrong on Darkpit, then we should look into UP tomorrow.

##Vote: Darkpit

Chaco #HBC | FrozeηFlame mərcurı join me?

 

[Xivii]

Sigh why am I so incompetent

##Vote: Darkpit

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Votecount 1-6

[1] mərcurı : Boomfrog
[1] somitomi : Chaco
[1] Darkpit54: Xivii
[1] #HBC FrozeηFlame : UtopianPoyzin
[1] UtopianPoyzin : #HBC FrozeηFlame

[4] Not Voting: 3DSNinja, mərcurı, Darkpit54, somitomi

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to eliminate.

Day 1 Deadline is: 11 PM UTC on Saturday August 8th

 

[Chaco]

I have to read into UP versus Frozen. I didn’t expect the game to get actiony while I was sleeping.

One point I want to hit though, Xivii we all had our own ideas of “it”, and were hinting around about that without wanting to just flat out tell all when we saw someone picking up with the minute things about our roles that would make it consistent with theirs. Although we all had different ideas, we all recognized the existence of such an idea, correct? The only one who didn’t is Somi, which is why I was blatantly like I’m not sure if this is a scum slip or not, or as you better called it later, a perspective slip. That’s why I still like a Somi Lynch above all else rn, but I have to read the recent content. I skimmed it, but what I just hit on above was the major thing that stood out to me. I wanted to tell you it from my perspective, but freaking beautiful way of writing that out I will say.

 

[Chaco]

As far as a mate goes, we can’t rely on that though because there’s a 1/4 chance that their mate was inactive.

Safeclaims I could see.

Yknow on an alternative hand, I could see this game basically being like the “model set up” 1 Doc, 1 Cop, 2 Goon, 5 “VT” except all VT are named here and doc and cop are made to think they’re powerless as well? That’s a stretch.

 

[Darkpit54]

What do you think about Darkpit not responding to your question?

Apologies, I didn't see it. I'll answer it now obviously, though I've pretty much made my opinion clear earlier

Darkpit54 Darkpit54 , why'd you skip my direct question? Should we mass claim now, and why?

I don't think that we should. I didn't and still don't see the benefits of outing a PR if one happens to exist, although I doubt one does at this point. UP's refusal to claim early despite pushing for a massclaim made me think he might be scum trying to see more examples of roles before needing a fakeclaim, but this:

Additionally, scum has 2 safe claims to go off of,

Threw a wrench in that lol. I totally missed this in the set up, but I think it makes a massclaim pretty moot, right? If everyone else is comfortable with one maybe there are no PRs to be outed, but if scum has safeclaims, we won't catch them through a massclaim, right? I'm down if everyone else is comfortable sharing their roles, but I don't really see the benefit

 

[Darkpit54]

Would UP immediately townread a scummate so hard? I'd imagine him being pretty null rn, and progressing more to town later on, like where Somi and the inactives are on his readlist

The concept of "it" still somewhat confuses me, and I don't think Somi or anyone else not "getting it" is inherently scummy. It seemed like everyone was on different pages lol, and everyone knows my role fits "it" pretty perfectly while I was still confused. I don't think it really says anything about Somi's role or alignment that he didn't "get it", or about Frozen that he did, for example

I'm still unsure about watered down vs. dressed up. Chaco's feels 100% dressed up, as odds are he isn't a Miller at all lol. However, I would argue mine is more watered down, as it still does something a VT doesn't, while still not being very helpful lol. Lmk if you disagree with this assessment and why if so lol

 

[Chaco]

The only difference with your role is that it’s a named role. Which gives it power beyond a VT per se.

Onto the point of grasping the role situation, you didn’t have to understand it because your role was presented. With Somi it seemed like a genuine lack of seeing the debacle with the roles, which if he had a role like everyone else’s seems to, then he wouldn’t have had that hiccup. Post two from Somi comes back seeming like there’s more understanding high checks Xivii’s theory that a mate could have checked them

 

[Darkpit54]

Onto the point of grasping the role situation, you didn’t have to understand it because your role was presented. With Somi it seemed like a genuine lack of seeing the debacle with the roles, which if he had a role like everyone else’s seems to, then he wouldn’t have had that hiccup. Post two from Somi comes back seeming like there’s more understanding high checks Xivii’s theory that a mate could have checked them

I'll look back at the second post and see what I think about the argument for a scummate, as that could make sense. I still feel that town with a role that completely fits "it" could have not gotten it, as demonstrated through me, so I don't think his initial post was scummy, but I'll go look for the second post in a second

I don't think we can afford to wait for Mer and Ninja. Darkpit54 Should we mass claim? Why?

I'm glad I went back to look for the exact question because it made me realize that I missed the entire top of page six lol. Sorry about that.

Also, I was thinking about the whole speed hammer thing last game and I realized that the reason vote analysis works at end of day is because votes are only serious when a yeet is a realistic possibility. So I propose we make yeets always a real possibility. We pick one person to be "the judge", then everyone else votes with the intention of getting someone to L-1. Then the judge decides to hammer or give up judgeship. If they decide to not hammer then we have to pick someone new to be judge and someone new to bring to L-1. And we do that until we get a yeet.

What do you guys think?

Can you explain this a little more? I don't think I quite understand. From how it seems to me this seems... really needlessly risky? Like it could lead to the easy push of a townie who hammers a misyeet, while also having the potential to give a lot of power to scum if they're allowed to hammer. Can you explain the benefits of this?

 

[Darkpit54]

On second thought I don't quite understand what you propose we all claim and how you're going to gain information from it without outing any "useful" PRs we might have?

This is the part of his first post in regards to claiming

I’m going to clarify my role even further, I can show to investigation as town or mafia, that’s where self doubting comes in, I’m not sure of which. Which is why I immediately claimed.

This is you clarifying your role, after his first post but before his second. I think this alone could account for the more understanding you claimed was in his second post

That doesn't really answer any of my questions:
1) What exact piece of information do you think we should all claim? (It seems like I'm not the only one, who's unclear on this)
2) How would this information be more beneficial to town than to scum?

I really don't see the scumminess in the post tbh. Could you explain what pinged you in this?

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Would UP immediately townread a scummate so hard? I'd imagine him being pretty null rn, and progressing more to town later on, like where Somi and the inactives are on his readlist

Would I?

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Somi is almost certainly town. The fact that he was the only player not to have grasped that the setup was DLP, and continued not to quite understand after being pressured on it, indicates that he is mateless as they would have informed him after receiving the pressure.

This judgement is so bad, 3DSNinja hasn’t even posted and I certainly wouldn’t be much help to Somi if they and me were the scumteam. Besides, even you said they would receive fake-claims so scum would probably have a grasp of the setup to an extent.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Yeah lol I can’t believe I’m banking on the fact that both scum are active, but isn’t that always the case.

Mercuri doesn’t have scum motivation. Xivii might.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Don’t let this distract you from the fact that Xivii wants to push for a watered-down IC that isn’t innocent. Y’all should take a step back and just realize how that sounds.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

The fact that he later came up with the theory that I was chainsaw defending Merc suggests a consistent train of thought, one that comes from a townie with a genuine suspicion.

#62 wasn’t even that serious because it assumed the scumteam was you and mercuri. I was just throwing it at the wall to see if it’d stick.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Nothing is right in #293 except for me being town. Every paragraph is just wrong.

I townread Xivii for putting in effort to trying to solve the game. Scum also has to put in effort.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Imagine saying that I’m the next option after Darkpit lol

Did some sleeping last night and I decided ai was giving Xivii too much credit. I wanted to vibe with them over and over but it seems like everything they say is devoid of logic and is generally unnecessarily conspiratory. Maybe I’ll figure out what that means

Poyzin
Chaco
Darkpit54
mercuri
3DSNinja
Somitomi
BoomFrog
Xivii
FrozenFlame

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

EBWOP

townread was past tense in #308. That way FF can’t call it a contradiction

 

[Chaco]

If Somi is scum, Xivii is likely the scum mate.

 

[Chaco]

To be fair, everyone is special (so noone is), but in a scenario where the rest of us were mostly vanilla, I think this would've been a PR slip.

This is the portion I was referring to Darkpit54 .

 

[Chaco]

All right, let's go.

That's a bit of a risky statement to make right out of the gate. What if you're wrong about it?

 

[Chaco]

Look at the two above, but flip the order. The logic doesn’t connect.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

ANNOUNCEMENT

Effective immediately, 3DSNinja is replaced by osieorb18

Thank you to osieorb18 for stepping in.

 

[Darkpit54]

This is the portion I was referring to Darkpit54 .

Oh, that's my bad then. I thought you meant his response to UP

That's a bit of a risky statement to make right out of the gate. What if you're wrong about it?

To be fair, everyone is special (so noone is), but in a scenario where the rest of us were mostly vanilla, I think this would've been a PR slip.

Honestly I don't know what to make of this, you're right. The first seems almost to be claiming VT, while the second is adjusting to the rest of the info we gave and basically claiming "almost VT". A claim from Somi could potentially clear this up when the time comes for that

Would I?

That's the question lol. I don't think so, but I've never played with you. I'm curious to see what others think, but in my experience scum rarely townread their mates so strongly so early lol

Welcome Osie

 

[Chaco]

I’ve said why I think UP is townreading me so hard. He saw my town play from a mod view, so I think he’s identifying it simply and quickly. If he is scum, he’s just playing me up as town cause he knows I’m town. But I think the likelihood here is that he saw my play most recently as town and identifies my behaviors. I’m still waiting for UP development, he’s not a good yeet target D1, imo. He’s putting so many reads out that as game progresses he will be easily sorted as compared to slots with lesser activity and stances.

Im waiting to see Somi development, and as DP said, whether or not we do end up claiming which will help form an opinion slightly. But mostly will be based off of plays and stances upcoming

 

[Xivii]

osieorb18 somitomi I believe we are mass claiming. Please claim in your next post if you don't mind.

We can skip UP for now and go with this order:

Osie / Somi
Mercuri / BoomFrog
FrozenFlame / UtopianPoyzin / Xivii

If everyone is OK with this, please like this post so that osie is aware that I'm not attempting to trick him.

 

[osieorb18]

Catching up. Why the **** are we massclaiming on Day 1?

 

[Xivii]

It would be optimal if you claimed before catching up.