COMPLETELY VANILLA Mafia | Game Over

[mərcurı]

alright im back and i maybe sort of feel like posting

 

[Chaco]

That’s actually a really good point about DP, he has a modest play style, but the wording of the post that I shouldn’t be treated as an innocent child is just a little bit off. I reread it and it definitely hits different that Xivii has pointed that out. Watching the progression there.

Comfortable on Somi rn though.

 

[3DSNinja]

Sorry, haven't gotten a chance to read up. I'll post my thoughts in a couple of hours, UP.

 

[Darkpit54]

Not necessarily. It would be within Kary's MO and the flavor of the game for the role to be a red herring. In fact, I highly suspect there is no real investigative and that if there is, there is a good chance they are actually mafia. Here are the roles from one of Kary's previous games. One of the roles contained a 1-shot firefighter ability but there was no arsonist in the game. One of the mafia roles also had a universal backup safe claim, but they were actually just a scum role that absorbed a dead townie's power. I suspect that Kary shares my ideal as a host that no player should be able to be cleared or condemned from their role, and that town should not be able to succeed by attempting to metagame the setup.

Thank you for this, I hadn't read any of Kary's games before. I'll keep this in mind

Could you explain what your role is though? All we know is the name, what does it do?

I'm basically a glorified vanilla townie with my flavor name announced. I have no actions, though if I had anything meaningful it would probably be foolish to claim it rn. Afaik, "noisy" doesn't actually do anything aside from preventing me from being a true innocent child

When reality you should already know this isn't a b-game from the fact that it isn't a b-game

Could you explain what you mean by this? Chaco suggested that this might be a b-game, so I explained why I felt that it wouldn't based on the limited information that I have

believe this is another attempt at faking a townie perspective. Again, you have shown to be quite logical. In Midnight Ops you were aware that we would potentially be in lylo D4 before any of the rest of us considered it. It's not believable to me that you'd suspect there would be 3 scum in a 9 person game

I appreciate the faith, but I feel like you are probably overestimating me lol. I am Big DumbTM so LyLo was honestly the furthest thing from my mind d1. I was just going by last game, but after your responses I realized that I severely overestimated how similar the two were in size lol

This is unnecessary commentary. It's the type of content scum puts out in an attempt to look like they are engaged and sorting, but does not actually do anything to move town closer to solving the game

I feel like it's essentially what I did last game, and explained why I'm hesitant to paint UP as scummy based on "rolefishing" when he revoked the request before actually catching any lol. Apologies if my responses are unhelpful, but the intent is there and I feel like that can be seen

I agree with the points on UP somewhat, and am similarly hesitant to follow a "town leader" that is entirely unconfirmed. However, nothing he's posted has felt overly scummy

I like Xivii's posts, they seem very similar to his pushes last game. I think I feel most solidly town on him

 

[Darkpit54]

Ooh also don't forget the hashtags when you vote, Xiv

 

[Chaco]

Might could see this being a neap game with like... one or two actual VTs

This post hits different after seeing what Xiv linked and it had two+/- VTs.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

and his assertion that there is a functioning cop.

If you’re curious, I’m not stuck on that anymore. I have a good idea on what role I think is actually functioning, but I’m not going to say what I think it is because that would be very beneficial to scum.

Xivii, don’t add unnecessary WIFOM. Your DP quotes are completely natural and you’re reading too far into it. You’re probably town though.

Stop complementing me, it skews my read of you Embarrass

 

[Chaco]

alright im back and i maybe sort of feel like posting

Quoting this so I can direct your attention to my question though:

How experienced are you in mafia?

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Chaco/DP/Xivii/FF are “off the table”, just yeet in Mercuri/Somitomi and we can all vibe together

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

I didn't get it either.

Thanks for ruining the bluff and giving Somitomi’s point substance, you’re just making it easier for scum to wiggle around

I don't see what is townie about his content. This conclusion is far-fetched.

It’s townie, not far fetched.

What makes you think that this game is a mafiascum normal game?

Nothing? Just that it’s going to be mostly vanilla from game’s name

For what reason?

Wouldn’t you like to know

Could you explain how you came to this conclusion. What about the name of his role implies that he is town?

The fact that it’s an outed Child variant, and that making the outed Child role be scum when everything is supposed to be a watered down version of normal is a situation that I’d rather hold off on evaluating until later in the game. KISS.

To me, the words 'innocent' and 'noisy' look entirely different.

That is a true statement that I definitely agree with.

 

[Xivii]

Xivii Xivii I don’t look back a lot when posting because it’s a pain in the ass so I go based off of memory a lot if you can’t tell, and small details sortve blend at times. And yay, a different Xivii to try and figure out.

It's just that it was less than a page before your comment, and not knowing comes off as not caring who is saying what. If you don't care who says what, then how will you read people. Also what do you mean by a different Xivii?

Could you explain what you mean by this? Chaco suggested that this might be a b-game, so I explained why I felt that it wouldn't based on the limited information that I have

Yes,

Chaco's Argument:
The game is completely vanilla
Chaco is a miller, not vanilla
Therefore it could be a b-game

Your Argument:
You are town.
You are an IC.
Therefore this isn't a b-game.

The conclusion of your argument doesn't follow at all from the premises nor does it refute the idea that Chaco put forth.

If you’re curious, I’m not stuck on that anymore. I have a good idea on what role I think is actually functioning, but I’m not going to say what I think it is because that would be very beneficial to scum.

I have to ask that you stop asserting that there is an actual functioning role unless you are legitimately informed that there is one.

Thanks for ruining the bluff and giving Somitomi’s point substance, you’re just making it easier for scum to wiggle around

@Chaco what do you think of this?

It’s townie, not far fetched.

Please explain.

Nothing? Just that it’s going to be mostly vanilla from game’s name

You said godfathers aren't usually in normal games. That's not relevant at all since this is smashboards and there's nothing in the setup that says this is a mafiascum Normal Game.

Wouldn’t you like to know

Yes?

The fact that it’s an outed Child variant, and that making the outed Child role be scum when everything is supposed to be a watered down version of normal is a situation that I’d rather hold off on evaluating until later in the game. KISS.

There is nothing about child that suggests it is an innocent child. I don't know what KISS means.


From these responses, I lean more town on Chaco and scum on UP. I remain unchanged on Darkpit. I think either of the two would be decent yeets, but in the same vein that I wanted a Mala yeet in Midnight, I'd prefer Darkpit because he will be harder to yeet than UP. As for why I am leaning scum on UP, it's scummy to me that he is claiming now that his push on somi for not understanding what he was saying was actually a bluff. If this were the case, then he should be scumreading Chaco for falling for the bluff, yet his read there remains unchanged. It's evident that he is simply backtracking.

______

Sorry that I keep forking* up the vote,

##Vote: Darkpit

*for Trisscar

 

[giraffelasergun]

Votecount 1-3

[2] somitomi: Chaco, UtopianPoyzin
[1] Mercuri: FrozenFlame
[1] Darkpit54: Xivii

[5] Not Voting: 3DSNinja, mercuri, Darkpit54, somitomi, BoomFrog

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to eliminate.

Day 1 Deadline is: 11 PM UTC on Saturday August 8th

 

[Darkpit54]

Your Argument:
You are town.
You are an IC.
Therefore this isn't a b-game.

I think you're misunderstanding me. My argument, while definitely still possibly wrong, is based on the fact that I'm NOT an IC. If I was an IC, there would be the potential of me being scum, leading to this game being b because the mod would have directly lied to us. Because Kary did not say my alignment, I'm inclined to believe it is not *******, as there's no room for a lie within that.

As I know I'm town, it's not even really misleading just,,, kinda distracting ig? I don't really see the point of it aside from stirring more stuff up lol

 

[Chaco]

Xivii I honestly don’t know what to think of that, seems like he was just following my lead, per se and seeing what would develop of my push on Somi, waiting for their response etc.

 

[Xivii]

I think you're misunderstanding me. My argument, while definitely still possibly wrong, is based on the fact that I'm NOT an IC. If I was an IC, there would be the potential of me being scum, leading to this game being b because the mod would have directly lied to us. Because Kary did not say my alignment, I'm inclined to believe it is not *******, as there's no room for a lie within that.

As I know I'm town, it's not even really misleading just,,, kinda distracting ig? I don't really see the point of it aside from stirring more stuff up lol

The perspective you're speaking from though is one of that coming from scum. From scum!your perspective, this game would be a b-game if the mod announced you were an innocent child so the logic makes sense to you. If you were town!darkpit, however, this idea would have likely never even crossed your mind.

 

[Xivii]

Further, the reasoning only holds if you are indeed scum. From town!your perspective, since you would be town, it couldn't be a b-game whether you were an IC or NC. Your reasoning is a perspective slip.

 

[Chaco]

What is IC/NC stand for here? Only IC definition with mafia that I’ve heard is inexperienced challenged, so I’m curious so I can better understand what you’re saying.

Perspective slip is basically what I was saying about Somi though, good term for it.

 

[Chaco]

Wait, innocent child?

 

[Xivii]

What is IC/NC stand for here? Only IC definition with mafia that I’ve heard is inexperienced challenged, so I’m curious so I can better understand what you’re saying.

Perspective slip is basically what I was saying about Somi though, good term for it.

Innocent Child and Noisy Child. Darkpit is saying that the game could be a b-game if he were an Innocent Child rather than a Noisy Child because it would confirm him as town when he could be scum. If he were town, however, this reasoning wouldn't make sense. It only makes sense to him because he is scum.

 

[Darkpit54]

Innocent Child. This may partially be because I just finished a game where a Fake Innocent Child was a big topic, so my faith in them might be skewed. An Innocent Child could be *******, whereas a Noisy Child really can't. Ik that I'm town, so it wouldn't be in this situation but you guys don't, so there's the potential.

I don't think it's a bad thing to try to look at things from other perspectives and I'll die on that hill lol

Maybe I'm just jaded toward Innocent Children but tldr, that role has the potential to be ******* while mine cannot, from the perspective of every other townie, as they do not know my alignment. This is the point I was trying to make, and I think it may have gotten lost in translation somewhere. Oh well ig

Can you elaborate on the argument against Somi?

 

[Chaco]

No it’s definitely not a ******* setup, my role in itself is a little bastardy just because of the role and it’s parameters. I don’t think any typical mod would ******* mod with an Innocent Child, and even then it would be advertised as such a game I would think. So definitely not a b-game. I understand all the abbreviations now and agree with what you’re saying in that aspect, Xiv.

 

[Chaco]

I just looked back and what I thought was that their slot wasn’t understanding the seemingly laden modifiers in the game. But looking back I think I may have misinterpreted that due to UP’s quote saying he didn’t understand that, but I didn’t either at first. Anyways, the comment about VTs seemed a bit off to me from them, and basically the whole first post seemed a bit of a different perspective. The following where they reiterated that we are all special therefore we are not was a bit better and mirrored the overall game perspective, but not sure if that was learned or the first post just lacked that perspective, or was left out until the follow up.

 

[Chaco]

I would’ve preferred to get a response before it fell under the microscope, but activity didn’t allow that. Which is why I think UP said he followed suit to see the response because it could’ve been indicative of his roles alignment.

Which is why Xivii is on him?

 

[Xivii]

I would’ve preferred to get a response before it fell under the microscope, but activity didn’t allow that. Which is why I think UP said he followed suit to see the response because it could’ve been indicative of his roles alignment.

Which is why Xivii is on him?

It's a part of it. I can get with your reasoning that he was just trying to support you. However, I think the strength of his read on you and DP are condemning. Compare your reaction to the DP case to his. You reevaluated your initial perspective, but UP is doubling down, failing to consider the arguments that are being made.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Xivii is scum trying to save their scum is that I put in my PoE, presumably either Somitomi or Mercuri, probably not either Ninja nor BF.

 

[Chaco]

I see your points which is why liked further into it, and to a certain degree I do see what you’re saying there. There’s a sort of disconnect, but then again his explanation of being ******* nodded with an IC would make some sense.

UPs reads on me and DP are a different story. I think he’s townreading me heavily cause he just nodded the game we played and say the way I process and dealt around the possibility of a chocolate role, so my thoughts in the role are consistent with what he saw me okay as confirmed town. That’s at least my perspective on it. As far as DP, I think he’s just taking him at face value with the mod announcing his role. I don’t think it’s necessarily damning but I haven’t seen enough interaction between you two to determine TvT, SvS, SvT

 

[mərcurı]

Quoting this so I can direct your attention to my question though:

How experienced are you in mafia?

about 2 years give or take a few months

maybe retracting read on poy with the basis that he really doesnt seem to have an agenda right now given his... volatile reads

 

[BoomFrog]

I'm vibing with Up here.

Unyeetable -
Chaco
FrozenFlame
UP

Dark Pit - I can see the Xivii's perspective, but I'm still leaning town for other reasons and think the thought process is plausible.
Xivii - very wrong on a lot of points. Probably still town.

Somitomi - Doesn't get it
mərcurı - Seems to be avoiding the whole topic.

I agree we should mass claim today. But I don't want to hear anyone else debate the merits of that besides somitomi , mərcurı and 3DSNinja

3DSNinja play post more. About anything. You don't need to fully catch up, just raw post your thoughts and reactions as you think them.

 

[BoomFrog]

## Vote: mərcurı

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Btw I don’t think Xivii is scum rn, just that they’re pretty far off-base and scum tend to be off-base, but this feels like one of those TvT run-ins that are bound to happen.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Like it just seems that Xivii is reading too far into WIFOM right now instead of realizing that I’m the towniest person in the game

 

[somitomi]

Okay, I really am rusty or dense, maybe both.

Okay cool, you can be unyeetable until endgame.

I read this yesterday and took it to be a read based on content rather than a game logic thing and it took me an entire day to unstick that from my headspace. I still think it was an oddly hasty call to make on UP's part though.

UP pretty much explained this lol, but at the point I posted my role had already been confirmed to town, so I had nothing to lose by saying that I wasn't vanilla lol

And I definitely didn't connect the dots here, that information about your role was already out there when you made that remark. Oof.
Now, to read my backlog.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

What I was referring to by “flavor claiming” was effectively a massclaim minus the role modifiers. I thought it’d be nice to know what roles we were working with, but not the modifiers. Heck, Kary might’ve made the investigative roles duds.

But Ive decided I’d like to hold off on that for now, give it a rest for a lil bit. Keep your roles to yourself for now, there’s a good chance that there’s a rolecop and I don’t want to do scum’s work for them.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Hi osby

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

What would be the issue?

imo it's pretty obvious that from a scum perspective, you'd ideally want to pocket town slots that have a good chance at clearing themselves or atleast making it to endgame. if the person you're pocketing is dead and not helping your scum voting block you aren't really getting much bang for your buck as a tradeoff for essentially helping town confirm a slot

What gave you the impression that red were town reads?

really want to hear the answer to this Chaco

What I do propose, however, is that we mass claim. I think doing so would be beneficial in this setup because of all the red herrings.

What makes you think that this game is a mafiascum normal game?

I dont think I saw an answer to this going into page 4 UtopianPoyzin , what was your thought process here?

Xivii - very wrong on a lot of points. Probably still town.

unpack this please

Xivii, don’t add unnecessary WIFOM. Your DP quotes are completely natural and you’re reading too far into it. You’re probably town though.

UP and Boom seem to have the same read on Xiviii with this "wrong but town" approach, an interesting synergy to say the least

UP what exactly is he "reading too far into?" this defense just reeks of an attempt to deflect attention

alright im back and i maybe sort of feel like posting

how did we get a 3DSNinja redux in literally the next game?

Somitomi - Doesn't get it
mərcurı - Seems to be avoiding the whole topic.

I agree we should mass claim today. But I don't want to hear anyone else debate the merits of that besides somitomi , mərcurı and 3DSNinja

cosigning all of this, though I think Xivii has clearly demonstrated that darkpit "doesnt get it" either so to me somi/darkpit/mercuri are all yeetable right now

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

I dont think I saw an answer to this going into page 4 UtopianPoyzin UtopianPoyzin , what was your thought process here?

Nothing I suppose. If it’s not a normal role, then it’s ******* iirc. Could be faulty logic, it’s just not something that I care to consider rn.

 

[Xivii]

#HBC | FrozeηFlame what do you think of the points I made on Darkpit? What of the points I made on UP?

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

I think this is suspicious and an attempt at a fake town innocence/perspective. Basically it's a backward form of reasoning, concluding that this isn't a b-game because you are town. When reality you should already know this isn't a b-game from the fact that it isn't a b-game. The whole way this is structured just doesn't gel with me, especially considering how logical of a player you are. You are my top suspect.

I believe this is another attempt at faking a townie perspective. Again, you have shown to be quite logical. In Midnight Ops you were aware that we would potentially be in lylo D4 before any of the rest of us considered it. It's not believable to me that you'd suspect there would be 3 scum in a 9 person game.

This is unnecessary commentary. It's the type of content scum puts out in an attempt to look like they are engaged and sorting, but does not actually do anything to move town closer to solving the game.

@FF this is what I believed to be off-base. Instead of thinking “they have a town perspective, therefore they are town”, Xivii is saying “they have a town perspective, therefore they are faking it and are scum”. DP has a townie perspective, shows a genuine mindset of somebody who knows that there role is publicly mod-confirmed but their alignment is not, and had a logical town thought process on how to go about this information and how they think they should be treated and sorted in this game.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

It’s never been officially stated that this ISNT a b-game, so DP’s messages about deducing why it’s not are perfectly valid.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

There is nothing about child that suggests it is an innocent child. I don't know what KISS means.

Keep it simple, stupid.