COMPLETELY VANILLA Mafia | Game Over

[Chaco]

Right now I'm leaning toward Frozen. I think he's been allowed to sit as "locktown" without really taking a solid stance on much, set the table for Xivii to push the Mer misyeet, and overall is just kinda coasting imo.

I’m the one who proposed the Mercuri Lynch at EOD, right? Saying that’s the only place I would go besides you before Xiv flip flopped.

 

[Darkpit54]

At EoD yes, but Frozen was the first to propose and actively push for it iirc. He had multiple long posts about it

 

[Chaco]

At EoD yes, but Frozen was the first to propose and actively push for it iirc. He had multiple long posts about it

Yes he was. But you can’t misattribute something to him when he wasn’t even here at EOD and wasn’t even a vote on the yeet. Therefore not orchestrated by him.

 

[Darkpit54]

I never said it was orchestrated by him. I said he set the table for it. He planted it into everyone's minds, taken advantage of by Xivii at EoD. It was a team effort.

I'm trying to decide if I've been giving Chaco too much credit for his early claim. I feel like I may be getting played hard, and Xiv's progression on Chaco was strange. But I'll look into his entire play more later.

I'm not at all swayed that Xivii is scum. After his yeet, please don't let someone win by getting away with deepwolfing. Analyze everyone, some of the pushes by "obvtown" have been really sus

I wish Osie was here, I need someone I can 100% trust and bounce ideas off of

Xivii analysis is on the way, then I'll look at Boom

 

[BoomFrog]

I'm not at all swayed that Xivii is scum.

What does this mean?

 

[Darkpit54]

I think this is suspicious and an attempt at a fake town innocence/perspective. Basically it's a backward form of reasoning, concluding that this isn't a b-game because you are town. When reality you should already know this isn't a b-game from the fact that it isn't a b-game. The whole way this is structured just doesn't gel with me, especially considering how logical of a player you are. You are my top suspect.

This is the initial push. It seemed logical and town-intended, so while I debated the faults in it, I townread Xivii for it because it seemed like a push town would make

Second, it's the fact that Darkpit considered the rolefishing (pre-retraction) to be scum indicative in the first place. The fact that Darkpit thinks it's not scum indicative because UP went back on it implies that he thinks it would be scum indicative if he didn't. I don't this sort of read comes from someone as intent-minded as Darkpit. What's the scum motivation behind blatantly rolefishing?

Rolefishing is blatantly scummy lol, I don't really see how he can claim it isn't. This feels like a deflection due to how strongly he was pushing for a massclaim rather than looking into the motivations behind what I said

Right now I think pit's flip gives us a good idea of the game state

Xivii ate me alive for saying something similar about yeeting him because it would give us the most information about slot's connections. This is hypocritical

##Vote: UtopianPoyzin

Also, I think we should probably try this first

This shift in pushes seems opportunistic. It is out of nowhere and Xivii doesn't really explain it. When the support for a UP yeet dies down, he jumps back on me, claiming he never left

You: tone, going against the grain, real paranoia about my motives, quick entrance into the game without assessing the situation

Darkpit54 why haven't you scum read Boom for pushing you?

The above is Xivii townreading Osie specifically for scumreading him, the bottom is him implying that me not scumreading Boom for pushing me is sketchy and implies that we're mates. It doesn't check out.

If I'm wrong on DP ya'll can tear me to pieces.

I'm holding you to this. Tear him to pieces toMorrow, please

There wasn't a point that I ever dropped DP.

Yeah, okay.

Darkpit are you really town?

This question still baffles me. It seems like the first time he is genuinely considering that I could be town, but it also feels like my response to this wouldn't matter regardless of what it was

Hm if you're town, then this game is simply not possible to win. It would mean that BoomFrog would most certainly have to be scum. But there's no way he's being yeeted based on the position is people's read list. It would also have to mean that another strong player was his mate. Osie maybe. Merc? Idk. The world where you're town I just don't think we win and it's going to be a grueling game.

Stick to your guns Xivii. He's scum. Remember the convoluted b-game logic.

Yeah but it kind of makes sense if they discussed having a scum IC after his last game doesn't it?

No. Look. I'll explain it again. His role not being bast in no way implies that the game isn't bast. Yes, we know it isn't, but his reasoning to justify it doesn't make sense. If he was under the impression that a bast game would mean all roles are messed up, then yes. But we know from that game that he knows a single role could be bast without the rest of the game being so.

Yeah, but I still feel like we can't say for certain with just that. I'mma look over him one more time.

##Uvote: Darkpit

You fool. What are you doing. Scum is in your grasp. I wont let you do this!

##Vote: Darkpit

I'm sorry, you granted me your power. But with great power comes great responsibility.

Vote: Mercuri

This progression baffles me. Xivii seems to actually be considering that I am town, and that he is willing to rethink his reads, but by the next Day he's back to all guns blazing and is hardly even considering if others could be scum.

This is a massive slip haha

Can you explain this? Slip of what? Scumslip or townslip? I'm confused and no one commented on it. How are you trying to paint this?

EBWOP:

Yep let's do it, so where is your DP vote ?

This rubbed me the wrong way hard, but I've already touched on this. This interaction strengthened my scumread of Xivii and my townread of Boom

Fair DP, I'll do both.

I'd still love to see your defenses of people that isn't scummate analyses. Those would be great post-flip if I flipped scum, but as I won't they're simply a waste of time that could be better spent scumhunting

What does this mean?

My belief that Xivii is scum hasn't changed. I don't think it will at this point

 

[BoomFrog]

Killing osie was indeed a mistake. You and DP though seem to be the only one's that believed his claim, as evident by your response to his claim yesterday, which caused you to back off the mass claim.

Can you at least trust me to not make such a blatant mistake? The chance that Osie's role was useful times the chance he was sincere in claiming times the chance that he'd protect you, his biggest scum read, is completely negligible. And if DP and I were mates I could have used Osie's help avoiding the DP yeet today. There's no way I don't shoot you in that scenario.

 

[Chaco]

DP is floundering so hard. Set the table is the same thing as orchestrating, when he was about the same on policy as me. You’ve been trying to find minute points to for anything to get the Lynch off of you, and NOW you’re backing off of Xivii. Like idk. Town doesn’t flounder reads and try anywhere to get viability.

 

[Chaco]

For the record I don’t think Boom kills Osie there, I think scumBoom kills townXivii 100% of the time cause of how easy it is for Xiv to pin boom as scummy.

 

[Chaco]

I did some ISO on Boom and the only thing that stuck out to me was that I thought Boom had more content. Nothing inherently scummy, town points overall. But I thought there was more content.

UtopianPoyzin is the ongoing v/la like a needing replacement type deal, or no?

 

[Darkpit54]

DP is floundering so hard. Set the table is the same thing as orchestrating, when he was about the same on policy as me. You’ve been trying to find minute points to for anything to get the Lynch off of you, and NOW you’re backing off of Xivii. Like idk. Town doesn’t flounder reads and try anywhere to get viability.

I am NOT backing off of Xivii. Xivii should be the yeet once I'm gone. I was asked to find a scummate for him so I'm attempting to do so. I'm still 100% certain that he's scum, and I refuse to vote anywhere else toDay

 

[Chaco]

Ahh I see your wording confused Boom as well.

 

[Xivii]

Can you at least trust me to not make such a blatant mistake? The chance that Osie's role was useful times the chance he was sincere in claiming times the chance that he'd protect you, his biggest scum read, is completely negligible. And if DP and I were mates I could have used Osie's help avoiding the DP yeet today. There's no way I don't shoot you in that scenario.

I think the night kill is the biggest point in your favor. I don't think you would have wanted to kill me though, I think you would have wanted to kill Chaco, and Osie stood in the way of that has a protective.

For the record I don’t think Boom kills Osie there, I think scumBoom kills townXivii 100% of the time cause of how easy it is for Xiv to pin boom as scummy.

Killing me would implicate Darkpit and killing osie they had the opportunity to use that and the merc yeet to push me today. No need to kill me when they could yeet me. Again, it's why Boom jumped in at #937. They were banking on you, somi, and UP taking the bait from the osie kill and seeing me as scum cause of it. When you didn't take it, Boom slipped here by trying to give it footing.

 

[Xivii]

EBWOP: as a protective

 

[Chaco]

So from your perspective who would Booms partner be?-

 

[Xivii]

DP man. You been skimming my posts?

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

UtopianPoyzin UtopianPoyzin is the ongoing v/la like a needing replacement type deal, or no?

No

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Votecount 2-5

[2] Darkpit54 : Xivii, Chaco
[2] Xivii : UtopianPoyzin, Darkpit54

[3] Not Voting: somitomi, #HBC FrozeηFlame, BoomFrog

With 7 alive, it takes 4 votes to eliminate.

Day 2 Deadline is at 11 PM UTC on Monday August 17th;

 

[Xivii]

Chaco these are the two parts to my case:

Part 1: If Chaco and Frozen are town, and DP is scum, then somi is town, so the remaining scum has to be within UP and Boom. Boom is likely the partner based on his play today (the posts I linked in the case).
Part 2: Why Somi is town if DP is scum.

(It's also not UP for a number of reasons, but they aren't reasons that I can communicate in a convincing manner, so I'll leave that open. We only need somi cleared from a DP flip to win anyway.)

Spoiler

If it's not Boom & DP then, the whole solve is wrong and DP isn't scum or we are wrong on Frozen. If you're not convinced that Boom is the partner, we need to be looking at other options. Either reevaluating our Frozen reads (he's also a potential partner with DP, I've just been excluding him for the town read), or looking into an UP/Somi team. Somi is locked town except for in the case that UP is scum. Will provide reasoning on this. Boom/Frozen isn't worth considering.

Occam's Razor though is just that it's DP and Boom. I have to make too many unnecessary assertions for UP and Somi to be scum.

 

[Chaco]

Yeah. I remember the two parts of your case, I just was wondering if your pairings had changed at all or if you thought that Boom had to be the other scum.

It’s weird cause I’ve got a townread on Boom, but like there’s not a lot of substance coming from Boom and I remember Boom in midnight being much more prominent. So I’m wondering if it’s just due to toDay being stale or what.

 

[Chaco]

I’ll actually finish my PBPA of Boom later perhaps.

Needing the Frozen input now more than ever.

Somi as well. UP the same.

This game has dissolved to Xivii, Boom, Chaco and DP.

 

[BoomFrog]

For the record, Xivii i disagree with your Part 2. But it's impossible for me to read it without bias. I think DP's reluctance to confirm it indicates that they didn't want to taint the discussion because they liked the conclusion which means the conclusion is wrong. However, from your perspective that's all scum theatre. So ¯\(ツ)/¯

 

[Xivii]

For the record, Xivii i disagree with your Part 2. But it's impossible for me to read it without bias. I think DP's reluctance to confirm it indicates that they didn't want to taint the discussion because they liked the conclusion which means the conclusion is wrong. However, from your perspective that's all scum theatre. So ¯\(ツ)/¯

Bias from what?

DP wasn't reluctant to confirm it. Saying nothing was the best response. If he denied it, it would confirm what I said. If he confirmed it, it would confirm what I said. So there's nothing you can get from the response. You have to focus on the case itself. I'd like to know specifically where you disagree.

 

[BoomFrog]

Bias that I think UP and you are town so I already think somi has to be DP's partner. My read is that DP thought some roles might be vanilla, not that they specifically thought Somi was vanilla. Since you are poking me and I've got some actual computer time I went back to seriously try to read without bias. DP is responding in post C to Chaco bringing up those two quotes: https://smashboards.com/threads/completely-vanilla-mafia-day-2.506119/page-8#post-24044357

That means that this is a new thought for DP in post C, they are analyzing the quotes and coming up with the idea that somi kinda claimed vanilla. If your theory was correct DP would have had the idea that Somi is vanilla in the back of his mind already. Therefore, DP is lying toDay when he said your analysis is correct.

 

[Xivii]

No, that ignores post B which is the critical post. Post C is just supplementary. He only came up with the theory that there were Vanilla because of Somi's statement 0. He thought he was being challenged by a vanilla player. That's the sole reason he made post B.

The idea that it was a new thought in post C is nonsensical from the position that DP is scum because it presumes that DP wasn't faking his engagement with Chaco there. The only thing new that he thought in post C was how the second post contradicted the first.

 

[Xivii]

They're townreading eachother, but Boom's is so strong I doubt that comes from a mate. Diametrically opposed on my slot means they could easily push a misyeet from multiple different directions. Still, Mer is a slot both could easily yeet. If Osie is scum I could see them being a team.

Chaco There's a tiny slip here from when I asked DP what he thought of the possibility of a Boom/Osie team. Notice the last line of the paragraph.

 

[BoomFrog]

No, that ignores post B which is the critical post. Post C is just supplementary. He only came up with the theory that there were Vanilla because of Somi's statement 0. He thought he was being challenged by a vanilla player. That's the sole reason he made post B.

The idea that it was a new thought in post C is nonsensical from the position that DP is scum because it presumes that DP wasn't faking his engagement with Chaco there. The only thing new that he thought in post C was how the second post contradicted the first.

Maybe I'm not understanding the context of post B since I'm coming at things just looking at your quotes, not during a reread. Who is challenging DP that he reacts to with post B?

And for post C, I'm saying DP is faking the analysis on Somi because Chaco presented the direct question for analysis. I think post C shows DP hadn't tried to guess at Somi's role at all before that post. Which is obviously scum indictive and partner indicative.

But you are going to take everything I say as manipulative, so maybe I should just let you and Chaco try and work it out without me.

 

[Xivii]

Post B came just a little bit after Post A and 0. The fact that he made them shows that he was thinking about it. You need to understand it just as much as Chaco because it's simply not possible for Somi to be scummates with DP. So if you're town and you think everyone else is town, then your solve is wrong and you seriously need to reevaluate.

 

[BoomFrog]

simply not possible for Somi to be scummates with DP.

Come on, this is evidence against it but it's far from proof. Anyway, I still think other evidence is stronger. None of this will change the yeet today. If I'm alive and DP is confirmed scum then I'll put it the work.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

sorry about the wait guys I'm finally out from under my ****ing mountain of work

giving yall the heads up that I'm blocking off this entire evening to getting caught up and will basically have the thread open all night if anyone else will be around to talk thru the play for today. getting too this later than I expected but I promised dedicated activity this weekend and tho its coming later than expected I intend to deliver, if there's anything that needs quick addressing just tag me and I'll try to get to urgent points first

 

[Chaco]

#HBC | FrozeηFlame Thoughts on DP yeet as opposed to others today?

 

[BoomFrog]

somitomi What makes you think DP is scum?

 

[Chaco]

This day staled our very quickly. Hopefully Frozen will revive it some.

Somi has barely contributed this day phase, and outside of a few slips has been overly null.

UP came on strong and then completely backed off.

The idea of lynching one of our more active slots sucks, regardless if they’re scummy or not, cause the game will stale more. :/

 

[somitomi]

Sorry everyone, I got myself distracted with a lot of unimportant stuff. I'm gonna get my stuff together and post something tomorrow morning, because it's past midnight already.

 

[Xivii]

Sorry everyone, I got myself distracted with infinity train. I'm gonna get my stuff together and post something tomorrow morning, because it's past midnight already.

FTFY

 

[Chaco]

We got less than 24 hours and I don’t see it going anywhere else besides Pit due to limited time we have remaining for discussion.

 

[Xivii]

##Vote: UtopianPoyzin

 

[Chaco]

Xivii Yo. What do you think about hypothetically UP says role cop at the beginning of the game cause that’s what his scum mate is and he gets cred based off of their lynch if it ever happens? Just kind’ve upping the ante.

 

[Darkpit54]

##Vote: UtopianPoyzin

Who do you think the partner with UP would be if he's scum?

FTFY

What does this mean?

 

[giraffelasergun]

filler post