YvngFlameHoe
Smash Ace
Fox and Falco I know are struggle match ups, I wanna know how it should be played as Falcon. The same goes for the rest of top 8
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SSBF
Smash Rookie
Honestly, I think you should pick when to offensive or defensive, it's a very interesting way of faking out opponents.
People can't BAIR it
People can't BAIR it
YvngFlameHoe
Smash Ace
I want specifics tho, what should falcon do:
Vs Fox
Vs Falco
Vs Marth
Vs Sheik
Vs Peach
Vs Puff
Vs IC's
How is Falcon supposed to play for each individual match up that I just named? What are guarantee's on each character? How should I play if I am put in to sheild? All the specifics for offensive and defensive options
Vs Fox
Vs Falco
Vs Marth
Vs Sheik
Vs Peach
Vs Puff
Vs IC's
How is Falcon supposed to play for each individual match up that I just named? What are guarantee's on each character? How should I play if I am put in to sheild? All the specifics for offensive and defensive options
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タオー
Smash Journeyman
This is all very barebones, but it's something. To fully explain these matchups would take far too much time than I'm willing to put into a simple response, but here it is:
Vs All:
Vs All:
- RUN
- RUN FASTER
- Make sure you're exploiting your movement options as much as possible, as that is one of Falcon's greatest strengths (utilizing all trajectories of jump, shield stops, pivots, dash-> WD, moonwalk, sticky walk, etc.)
- Make sure you properly space/time your aerials (hit with the tips of your hitboxes/make sure you hit low on shield)
- Stomp-> Knee
- 0% Stomp-> Regrab
- Stomp through platforms (Marth, Peach, Sheik, Falco/[Fox]) the other top tiers are too short (if they start crouching, mix up with fall through aerials/edge cancelled stomp-> aerial)
- Tech Chase with up throw (check out Gravy's tech chase on spacies)
- It's not hard to reaction tech chase with grab on spacies, way easier on Fox than Falco IMO
- Space with Nair and Late/instant Uair
- SDI shine towards stage when shined near ledge to snap to it, or in to try and force them to go the other direction when Wave Shining
- You're usually waiting/baiting for an opening. Once you get it, tech chase/combo to death. Fox get's bludgeoned like mad, it's his only true weakness.
- Tech chase is similar to Fox, but down throw at lower percents can help, it's preference really
- Trades are almost always favorable
- Early knees usually convert to stocks
- Powershield laser-> nair if the laser hits them (have to call it usually, depends on spacing)
- Space with toes of nair and late/instant Uair
- Make sure your platform movement is solid, and are able to change your approach trajectories to respond to lasers
- Raptor Boost goes under high lasers, nair goes over low lasers
- Falco cannot defend his forehead, except with pivot utilt
- Always be watching for utilt/bair
- Ledge tech fsmash edge guards (it goes under the ledge, and it's almost impossible to sweetspot)
- SDI out of pillar combos. This takes some finesse, but always be looking for escapes (edge cancel on platforms, anything to get you out of hitstun)
- Give wide berth until you find an opening, Marth's range, and greatest strengths come from proper spacing
- There are a large number of combos that you can pull out on Marth that well help you effectively 0 to death without too much difficulty (dthrow-> regrab-> dthrow-> SH nair-> regrab-> uthrow-> FJ instant uair-> falling uair-> knee) <-one example (pivot grabs help extend these combos more, and give you the tools to adapt to ambiguous DI)
- nair leads to more nasty combos
- Powershield Fsmash-> SH knee
- 0% knee-> regrab
- Raptor boost is not a bad response to a Marth in the air
- carry across stage with uair/nair
- Edge guard with Marth Killer/bair
- If deciding between DIing in or out, keep Fsmash tipper range in mind. Sometimes it's better to just eat the non tippered Fsmash
- Don't approach/keep moving to bait and understand habits
- late/instant uair combos well into more uairs and other combos (similar in weight to Marth). When properly spaced it's safe on shield as frame perfect late uair is frame neutral, allowing you to dash away
- When being tech chased: SDI jab resets up (between ~15-32%), mix up tech options, pray
- You can punish ftilt's ending lag with super precise timing/spacing with uair
- Tech chase her back, yours is better
- Hold ledge to edge guard, remember that only the first part of her Up B has a hitbox. If she lands on stage, ledge hop reverse knee/stomp-> reverse knee
- Don't let her pull turnips
- stomp/knee dsmash
- Don't challenge Dsmash on platforms from below
- 0 to death (dthrow-> SH nair [first hit rising, second hit falling]-> regrab-> uthrow-> FJ instant uair-> falling uair-> knee) I believe, this is off the top of my head. Magus has a post where he goes pretty in depth on this combo
- Watch for Dash Attack, it leads to her tech chase and many of her combos
- edge guard by grabbing ledge at the right time if she's trying to sneak to the ledge with her parasol
- If she is on ledge you can pressure as her double jump makes it very difficult to cover with a ledge hop aerial
- Bair works well to wall her out
- Space with Bair and Uair
- Low single hit nair->grab on crouching Puff
- Stay away from edges
- Don't edge guard/just hold ledge and try to cover their recovery on stage, make them eat their jumps
- once you get an opening, uair is usually a good option to rack up damage
- sweet spot bair is a good kill move (around 80%)
- SDI uthrow/utilt/uair away to avoid rest
- Watch for duck under jab/grab to rest
- Try to get under Puff
- Knee
- uthrow breaks them up for easy knee setups
- If you can, eliminate Nana early (unless Popo's attempts to save her place them in more dangerous situations, then just punish their foolishness)
- Cross up with Bair
- Watch for desynchs, Falcon really messes them up when they abuse them too much
- Don't get grabbed/make sure you properly space aerials
YvngFlameHoe
Smash Ace
magus420 indeed
Against Peach, it's actually a mixup at 0%. Peach can SDI a SH nair up and escape the 2nd hit, in which case you do FH nair instead, rising first hit, falling second hit, into either uair or regrab depending on her DI after the 2nd hit of nair.
Against Peach, it's actually a mixup at 0%. Peach can SDI a SH nair up and escape the 2nd hit, in which case you do FH nair instead, rising first hit, falling second hit, into either uair or regrab depending on her DI after the 2nd hit of nair.
YvngFlameHoe
Smash Ace
I love that man, he has that sicknasty vid of him as Ganon Cg'n a falco to death
B Link
Smash Lord
So I've slowly been getting into melee. Since I can't do the fancy technical stuff with fox & falco I've been maining Falcon/Marth. I watched Ken & Isai back in the day and pretty much copy their play style. Not like I'm anywhere near a true imitation though, lol.
One of these days I've got to learn how to moonwalk.
One of these days I've got to learn how to moonwalk.
タオー
Smash Journeyman
Learn how to pivot. So much more useful. Not to say moonwalking doesn't have its uses, but pivots just feel SO GOOD. I feel like the true Falcon jollies come from slick movement. Combos are nice too.
G. Stache
Smash Journeyman
Hey, I'm a peach/Luigi user that wants to pocket Falcon. I feel as if the Fox MU is a lot easier for him than it is for either of the two characters I have now. Any advice and/or general tips on how to use Falcon (basic combos to start with would work wonders too.)? Anything you gave would be appreciative.
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Mastodon
Smash Apprentice
started a new stream. Falcon players, come hang out, or ask questions or whatever:
twitch.tv/mastodonhue
twitch.tv/mastodonhue
YvngFlameHoe
Smash Ace
Does anybody know the percents where you can follow up after gentlemen's? Like gentlemen grabs, gentlemen knee, etc. I usually just react to how far the gentlemen sends them before I go for the grab
DuckPimp
Smash Ace
Oh cool people still play this game
Is Ken still number one or has isai beaten him yet?
Is Ken still number one or has isai beaten him yet?
YvngFlameHoe
Smash Ace
This thread is dead af yo
Mastodon
Smash Apprentice
yeah =/
replaced the bottom shell on my controller with the shell from my old controller so I could have my old triggers.
Man, triggers on new controllers suck ass. Like, they're seriously **** compared to the old ones.
YvngFlameHoe
Smash Ace
Yea the new triggers get stuck after awhile, sakurai tryna poison us
strongboy
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2014
- Messages
- 38
index thread is the best place to start. lots of info on basics & mu specific stuff. fox is one of falcons worst mus so i dont know if picking him up as a counter pick is really gonna do you a whole lotta good.
DuckPimp
Smash Ace
who of yall do i get to see at pound?
Prepare_Yourself
Smash Apprentice
Do you guys have a discord server? If so, can I get an invite?
TheRealSkid
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2015
- Messages
- 105
Hi.
I was a marth main in melee, but I'm kinda in a bit of a limbo here. Tried fox, tried sheik, but they didn't work all that well. I'm too aggressive, love pressure, and I prefer getting a sick disrespect over getting some kind of lame shine spike or something. I found falcon and he fit so nicely.
What do you guys recommend for starting out? Any really good falcon videos of tournament play? There's so many, and I don't know where to start...any help would be appreciated.
I was a marth main in melee, but I'm kinda in a bit of a limbo here. Tried fox, tried sheik, but they didn't work all that well. I'm too aggressive, love pressure, and I prefer getting a sick disrespect over getting some kind of lame shine spike or something. I found falcon and he fit so nicely.
What do you guys recommend for starting out? Any really good falcon videos of tournament play? There's so many, and I don't know where to start...any help would be appreciated.
DoomCake196
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2016
- Messages
- 110
Kim Qian (not sure what his tag is) just did something spectacular. He made playlists of all of the top Falcons' recorded YouTube sets:
https://www.youtube.com/user/magicsixball/playlists?sort=dd&view=50&shelf_id=1
https://www.youtube.com/user/magicsixball/playlists?sort=dd&view=50&shelf_id=1
タオー
Smash Journeyman
That's awesome
Uchihadark7
Smash Journeyman
He's missing a couple Darkrain sets, but other than that it looks good to me.
M-Tude
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2014
- Messages
- 66
He missing a bunch of Gravy/Ghatzu sets from the CFL weeklies on Polarity's youtube channel. I think those sets are dope usually, but they're not majors or anything so I get it if they're not a part of the group.
Nonetheless, this **** is sick. Thanks dude
Nonetheless, this **** is sick. Thanks dude
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Congrats! It's good that Falcons are getting results not only at the top level of play but also at the mid level. As for the boards being dead, I personally don't post super often because I'm often just lurking, trying to read and sponge up as much information as possible. That being said, I really do enjoy the content that you've put out so far. I'm really trying to level up this summer and carve out a bit of a name for myself in the Saint Louis area, so I really do enjoy reading and getting different opinions on matchups or move utilities.
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Is there any write up about reacting to spacie up b/full write up about covering spacie recovery options? I saw the sfat v wizzy set and blur casually referenced all of the "reactable angles" and it sounded like he was referencing something
Audos
Smash Apprentice
I think what our crimson overlord was trying to say was that fox has reactable positions ("angles" as he called them were probably the angles they are from the ledge when they begin to firefox, bad phrasing likely on his part) to start his up-b. Normally for most characters you lose options the further away you choose to commit to covering these positions. With marth, for example, mew2king likes to preemptively jump off bair to turn around and cover them with backwards dairs. But for marth to do this he risks losing stage from an opponent fox quickly side-b'ing from certain locations instead. Thus those positions the fox up's are not reactable for marth, due to his limited horizontal movement.
Falcon on the other hand, if fast enough, can cover much more options and react to much more of the up-b locations, which is what blur was trying to highlight. It requires very fast reactions, yes, but for somebody who is used to reacting to the subtle nuances of tech animations, the giant flaming up b is probably little problem.
Wizzy excels at a ton of very flowchart methods to killing, and his edgeguards are almost certainly the best of the falcons. Whether or not you like the crazy swag style of s2j and n0ne, or the precise, clean style of the 20gx movement, I'd highly encourage falcons to look at the way Wizzy covers options offstage, like what spacings he is committing to actually jumping off and when he stays on stage and reacts. It's really impressive actually.
OddishGuy
Smash Journeyman
I just found out that you can jump out of SH Bair and Upair. I thought it was neato so I made this gfy to show that it's neato.
Link in case Gfy doesn't load: https://gfycat.com/SameNiceKiskadee
DuckPimp
Smash Ace
this is indeed neato
ive been practicing this for a while but havent thought about trying no-impact land -> grab
thanks for this
DuckPimp
Smash Ace
in my (limited) experience, doc gets a majority of his big hits on falcon off of forcing missed techs and fsmashing or dsmashing, then following up with an edgeguard
so a big part of the matchup is learning when the doc can follow up with another uair juggle, and when you are able to tech
lightpressing for lcancel is important because then if doc stuffs your approach unexpectedly you dont miss the tech window (this is something i am still trying to implement lol)
i am by no means an expert in the MU, nor is this a complete rundown of the MU, but hopefully that can mitigate some of his KO potential
Thanks pimp. yeah thats how he has been been taking the majority of stocks off me, the missed techs to the edgeguard. Im getting closer to beating him and while he is the clear best in my area now, he actually told me Im his biggest threat lol. Soon.
made this fun little image, barely played or practiced last year let alone worked on falcon stuff but I'd like to start again. this is just a fun little thing comparing an example of the lowest fox could go while still landing on stage from that angle vs just walk off weak knee. Some food for thought, I'd like to theorycraft a lot on edge guarding spacies and neutral vs them
edit: also worth noting is falco just ff off ledge and dj back to it does not seem to be able to go beneath a properly timed falcon utilt even if Falco does it as perfect as possible. Probably won't use much but worth keeping it mind because spacies who can't ledge dash confidently play very cautious on the ledge once you've punished LHDL once or twice
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FalcoSBM1990
Smash Cadet
Looking how @Wizzrobe plays C.Falcon, especially against M2k in the WTFox 2 , made me realize the huge room development C.Falcon possess, in the other hand,Wizz is practically a child and so gifted with him, I never saw a better C.Falcon after witnessing that game, I think C.Falcon is a successful choice for gifted people while I start believing that Wizzrobe is the chosen one, he has still a lot of room development, I even start suspecting that Wizzrobe sees his opponent's movements in a slow motion, which isn't a wonder, he's so precise with the grabs, he precisely runs though its opponent without even being touched mostly times, I mean C.Falcon is way faster than Fox, if possessing gifted reflexes beyond common developed standards, the chosen one, will someday reveal C.Falcon's full potential, 80% knee hit chances, a magnificent timing beyond understandings, etc...
I think I was in coma, thank you Wizzrobe, may you will transcend common limits.
I think I was in coma, thank you Wizzrobe, may you will transcend common limits.
JuicyBoyBoneJones
Smash Rookie
User was warned for this post
ewagvw2gfwvkw
KEYLIME SSB
Smash Journeyman
Last I checked Isai been playing 64 too much.Oh cool people still play this game
Is Ken still number one or has isai beaten him yet?
Lil Bucket Hat
Smash Apprentice
Get outta here Keylime