Bust a Move/Puzzle Bobble Mafia..... GAME OVER!

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

So JD am i scum now that your caught up ?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Mass claim tomarrow btw.

 

[BSP]

My case is made up of just about all your posts this phase; you've literally asked only pointless questions and made pointless contributions (aka fluff) without making an active attempt at scum hunting. Even now, your play caters to a defensive and passive approach that doesn't support Town. It's only when I poke you that you attempt to poke back, but you're not trying to take the initiative at any time otherwise.

Someone making a case for JokerTown would be someone showing Town where your Town intent lays and explains your thought process/approach to the game. So far, I haven't seen pro-town intent from anything you've done, really. If I have, it was small and minuscule in comparison to most of the cast.

I just had to get this out while I'm looking back

I'm making this case

 

[Riddle]

Seriously though: I remember when I was getting yelled by Bardull and Kantrip about having suspicion of Riddle early D2 I was just wondering "What? Why do they have him as town enough to lynch me over it, did I miss something?" but then I just assumed I hadn't been reading hard enough and let it go.

Now I'm wondering if they didn't just choose him as their token town read. It's easy enough as scum to just go "Ok X is town" and be certain of it. Riddle might have given us his greatest contribution by simply existing and being mediocre and never proving his town outwardly lol.

Your reads (particularly on me) are ridiculously inconsistent and incoherent. I go from being scummy to being "cleared" to mediocre/null/whatever. Which is it and why? The rest of your play is incoherent as well. You play completely different when being pressured than when others are the focus and while you tend to post fairly strong opinions, they're frequently useless and/or not followed up and are frequently changing.

Would be okay with a JD lynch tomorrow.

Not sure why BarDulL thinks I'm so damn townie, would like elaboration on that as well.

 

[Jdietz43]

So JD am i scum now that your caught up ?

I'm doubting it, you've even bothered to stick around after your hammer and ask questions like that which I doubt would serve a huge purpose as scum.

Either way we'll know for sure when you're flipped. I guess that's what happens when one person doesn't care and another just hammers for no reason :/

 

[Jdietz43]

Your reads (particularly on me) are ridiculously inconsistent and incoherent. I go from being scummy to being "cleared" to mediocre/null/whatever. Which is it and why? The rest of your play is incoherent as well. You play completely different when being pressured than when others are the focus and while you tend to post fairly strong opinions, they're frequently useless and/or not followed up and are frequently changing.

Would be okay with a JD lynch tomorrow.

Not sure why BarDulL thinks I'm so damn townie, would like elaboration on that as well.

It's not too hard to follow. I came in curious of you, Bardull and Kantrip threw a fit to the point of starting a wagon on me: I assumed I must have been derping it hard if you were that clear and turned my opinion on it's head. Now it's apparent they haven't had a good reason for that in the first place so I've gone back to where I used to be.

 

[Vinylic.]

Mass claim tomarrow btw.

Wtf, I've been asking for a mass claim today and nobody did crap.

 

[Jdietz43]

Wtf, I've been asking for a mass claim today and nobody did crap.

Nearly everyone is already claimed Vinyl.

 

[Jdietz43]

EBWOP: In fact I think it's literally just BSP and Riddle who haven't yet.

They can feel free.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

You're forgetting that Rake is a gigantic troll, and he'd totally be willing to hang around and trollolololol even after getting caught, just for the fun of it.

 

[Jdietz43]

You're forgetting that Rake is a gigantic troll, and he'd totally be willing to hang around and trollolololol even after getting caught, just for the fun of it.

Trufax lol, I know I did in the past.

W/e. We'll just see what happens.

 

[Jdietz43]

Either way I'm pretty much done here, see you on the flip side.

(lol, get it?... flip *shot*)

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

lol looks like joker read the end of utrik'd

 

[Riddle]

It's not too hard to follow. I came in curious of you, Bardull and Kantrip threw a fit to the point of starting a wagon on me: I assumed I must have been derping it hard if you were that clear and turned my opinion on it's head. Now it's apparent they haven't had a good reason for that in the first place so I've gone back to where I used to be.

You literally used the word "cleared" regarding me after an entire reread and the only basis of it was circumstantial evidence based on two uncleared players? This fear of having controversial opinions is extremely scummy.

I've yet to see a legitimate, original read from you the entire game. All of the focus on the passiveness of BSP/me and nobody's said anything about JD's completely useless play? For shame.

 

[Vinylic.]

If this turns out the same as me voting the opposite of who I want to vote in Breaking Bad, I'll be mad.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

lol looks like joker read the end of utrik'd

Nope, but apparently I was right about you

 

[BSP]

Getting rid of multi-quotes

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

wat lol.


I may be a troll but in this instance i'm sticking around for the hell of it lol

 

[BSP]

Disclaimer: this might be repetitive in some places, but im trying to prove a point.

To begin, let’s establish what Bardull DOESN’T like when he’s looking at slots:

Vinyl can wait.

Vote: Riddle

I don't see the Town incentive behind your most recent post. Your contribution seems lackluster in that it doesn't serve any real purpose other than take up space. Why aren't you scum hunting?

Lackluster contribution, Not Scum Hunting

Fluff, lackluster contribution. Don't like his earlier questions and seems like he's trying to come off as though he's actually contributing.

Lackluster Contribution

Disagree here, didn't feel that you had much of an impact in painting him as dumbTown, probably because you weren't assertive that Tako wasn't scum (played him off as dumb, but of what alignment?) You're also entirely reactionary in your style of play and usually post only when someone says something about your slot (i.e. right now), you're 99% defensive, which is probably why I didn't feel that you put much of an effort to act as Tako's saving grace until scum vs. dumb debate turned to ad nauseum. Oddly, I remember you trying to counter JD's posts, but you were entirely passive about it. I have to reread it.

Reactionary playstyle

My case is made up of just about all your posts this phase; you've literally asked only pointless questions and made pointless contributions (aka fluff) without making an active attempt at scum hunting. Even now, your play caters to a defensive and passive approach that doesn't support Town. It's only when I poke you that you attempt to poke back, but you're not trying to take the initiative at any time otherwise.

Someone making a case for JokerTown would be someone showing Town where your Town intent lays and explains your thought process/approach to the game. So far, I haven't seen pro-town intent from anything you've done, really. If I have, it was small and minuscule in comparison to most of the cast.

See Bolded.

Alright, so what Bardull doesn’t like in a nutshell. He questions posts lacking in contribution, reactionary playstyles, and non scum-hunting. He also EXPLICITLY states how someone is supposed to defend a town read. Keep this in mind, it comes later.

Now let’s look at where he gives his read on Riddle and on myself:

BSP - BSP has been playing mostly sidelines and hasn't gotten himself into the meat of the business yet. Sitting in the same boat as 194, except he's up a slight notch. Would also like to see him show off his observational skill and out who he thinks should be the one to go.

Riddle - Town lean. Love his questions and his reads, his thought process also matches my own. Didn't like his first post of the game, but he's thoroughly improved throughout the day phase and I'm pretty comfortable with him.

I am about to show you all of Riddle’s posts up until this point. If a post has one of the things Bardull didn’t like, I will point it out.

[COLLAPSE=Riddle’s Posts]

Lets gooooo

(confirming)

@BarDull I used to be a DGames regular about a year and half ago. I'd say I've played in around 15 games and I have 0 clue what my record is.

Chatterbox sounds like an awful restriction/role. It's also pretty difficult to determine whether someone is a chatterbox at this point any because tons of people have that posting style.

lacking in contribution, non scum-hunting

I was simply agreeing with you and Rake that Rake's posting style is not particularly indicative of any restriction, since that was practically the only topic of the Day. Adding to discussions, even if the input isn't new, helps town to see where people stand on issues and isn't anti-town in any way. Perhaps I'm just used to more inane conversation early on in Day 1.


Why are you so calm about potentially being shot? Do you believe that BarDulL has a gun? If so, how serious do you think he is about likely shooting you?

lacking in contribution, reactionary playstyle, and non scum-hunting

I hate this explanation, but it's a really risky one for scum to use, so I'm inclined to believe it. Still, what made you think that ending RVS quickly by getting a wagon started on yourself was better for town than just letting RVS end in its own time?


His claim seems weird; I can't figure out the motivation behind it for the life of me. Other than that, I like he way he thinks. He certainly has a very different style from me, but he seems to be actively scumhunting and playing with town's best interests at heart.


What (useful) information could you possibly be hoping to gather from the answer to this question?

reactionary playstyle, and non scum-hunting

I wasn't sure if your question was asked in order to feel Kantrip out (as it seems to have been) or if there was a more specific reason for the query.

So, what were you hop-

lacking in contribution, reactionary playstyle, and non scum-hunting

Assuming tako is telling the truth about his role, what does this accomplish?

lacking in contribution, reactionary playstyle, and non scum-hunting

That doesn't make any sense. What reason would scum have to counter claim? They can just wait and then both masons are outed. Tako should breadcrumb some sort of code that is undecipherable and then tell his partner about it, so his partner can reveal the breadcrumb and clear himself at any point later in the game if/when Tako flips mason.

reactionary playstyle, and non scum-hunting

I read the same wiki and it clearly said that masons are occasionally mafia/town, although the official name is neighbors, so it seems fairly likely that your partner is town. Definitely ask John2k4 though.


Don't answer this tako.

This information is more useful for the mafia than it is for town if Tako really is a town mason, as there is only a fairly small group of people who could be construed as having defended him. A mafia mason would almost definitely defend his partner at least to some degree, because a town mason flip could pretty easily clear him in the minds of the town. This post is either scum-motivated or poorly thought out, I'm not sure which.

non scum-hunting

@Mod: To what extent does this rule prevent nearly impossible to discover breadcrumbing. Can you clarify it?

lacking in contribution, reactionary playstyle, and non scum-hunting

Inactivity, maybe. Regardless, I see absolutely no reason for tako to answer the question you asked him, it's clearly anti-town to lessen the pool of potential mason partners for scum when a breadcrumb would work so much better.

reactionary playstyle, and non scum-hunting

I read the rules as well, but I feel like there has to be some way to breadcrumb in a way that only the mason partner can reveal later on. It's kind of a vague rule. I'm not sure where the boundary between codes and legal breadcrumbs is.

lacking in contribution, reactionary playstyle, and non scum-hunting

The term "gambit" has become too vague for me to understand the previous post you made about gambiting Kantrip. Could you please clarify the method and purpose of said gambit?

non scum-hunting

Please don't answer questions specifically directed to other players. In this case it's mostly harmless, but it's certainly preferable to just allow the person questioned to respond in nearly every imaginable situation.

lacking in contribution, reactionary playstyle, and non scum-hunting

@BarDulL - Fair enough. Did you believe that you gained anything useful from this "gambit"?

reactionary playstyle

What makes distancing yourself from a player that is confirmed town to you a good idea in any way? It just doesn't make any sense to me. There's absolutely no reason to do so.

reactionary playstyle

So you're saying that if it looked like tako were going to be lynched, you weren't planning on claiming to save him? You were just going to let him die and hope that scum didn't pull out a mason connection out of thin air?

reactionary playstyle, and non scum-hunting (still going after the mason claim btw)

There's a lot of play going on that doesn't make any sense to me at all. I can't come up with a reason for towntako OR scumtako to make the RVS play he did, and, similarly, I can't figure out why Joker wouldn't defend Tako at all. I think they're both probably town, but really only because of their claims. I just need to get in both of their heads more to figure out what they could possibly be thinking.

Outright wrong on Joker not defending Tako btw.

The tako stuff has dominated the day, but I have Kantrip as a town lean too. Scum can just be sitting back and not doing anything to call much attention to themselves in light of this conflict, and I'm sure that's what they're doing, so my guess is that mafia is composed of people like Red Ryu/194/BSP/Vinyl./etc.

I think town's best play is to pretty quickly figure out what we're going to do about tako/Joker and then if we decide not to lynch them, we should move on. If they're telling the truth and are both town masons, than this extreme focus on them is just making it too easy for scum to coast.

Not scum hunting, reactionary playstyle

What are you even talking about?

Lackluster contribution, reactionary playstyle

[/COLLAPSE]

This is every single post Riddle made up until Bardull gave a read on him. Remember, this is what Bardull likes about the slot:

Riddle - Town lean. Love his questions and his reads, his thought process also matches my own. Didn't like his first post of the game, but he's thoroughly improved throughout the day phase and I'm pretty comfortable with him.

Riddle’s reads outed:

I think they're both probably town, but really only because of their claims. (“both” being Tako and Joker)

There's a lot of play going on that doesn't make any sense to me at all. I can't come up with a reason for towntako OR scumtako to make the RVS play he did, and, similarly, I can't figure out why Joker wouldn't defend Tako at all. I think they're both probably town, but really only because of their claims. I just need to get in both of their heads more to figure out what they could possibly be thinking.

Kantrip as town lean
Ryu/194/BSP/Vinyl./etc – Riddle’s outed target pool

The tako stuff has dominated the day, but I have Kantrip as a town lean too. Scum can just be sitting back and not doing anything to call much attention to themselves in light of this conflict, and I'm sure that's what they're doing, so my guess is that mafia is composed of people like Red Ryu/194/BSP/Vinyl./etc.

I think town's best play is to pretty quickly figure out what we're going to do about tako/Joker and then if we decide not to lynch them, we should move on. If they're telling the truth and are both town masons, than this extreme focus on them is just making it too easy for scum to coast.

So Bardull, you liked his reads even though 2 of them were on confirmed townies, and 1 was a town read. Riddle did not make a SINGLE ATTEMPT to pursue someone on his own. You specifically questioned people for :

[COLLAPSE=Bardull’s dislikes]

Vinyl can wait.

Vote: Riddle

I don't see the Town incentive behind your most recent post. Your contribution seems lackluster in that it doesn't serve any real purpose other than take up space. Why aren't you scum hunting?

Lackluster contribution, Not Scum Hunting

Fluff, lackluster contribution. Don't like his earlier questions and seems like he's trying to come off as though he's actually contributing.

Lackluster Contribution again

Disagree here, didn't feel that you had much of an impact in painting him as dumbTown, probably because you weren't assertive that Tako wasn't scum (played him off as dumb, but of what alignment?) You're also entirely reactionary in your style of play and usually post only when someone says something about your slot (i.e. right now), you're 99% defensive, which is probably why I didn't feel that you put much of an effort to act as Tako's saving grace until scum vs. dumb debate turned to ad nauseum. Oddly, I remember you trying to counter JD's posts, but you were entirely passive about it. I have to reread it.

Reactionary playstyle

Here's an example. What were you trying to achieve with this? How are you progressing the game forward by posting this as a response? Are you just trolling, or was this an actual response to my assertion of JokerScum?

Lackluster contribution

My case is made up of just about all your posts this phase; you've literally asked only pointless questions and made pointless contributions (aka fluff) without making an active attempt at scum hunting. Even now, your play caters to a defensive and passive approach that doesn't support Town. It's only when I poke you that you attempt to poke back, but you're not trying to take the initiative at any time otherwise.

Someone making a case for JokerTown would be someone showing Town where your Town intent lays and explains your thought process/approach to the game. So far, I haven't seen pro-town intent from anything you've done, really. If I have, it was small and minuscule in comparison to most of the cast.

See Bolded.

[/COLLAPSE]

Your town read on Riddle makes absolutely no sense. You actually should’ve been all over his slot from what you said. Explain this. You also liked his reads when he only made one outside of the confirmed townies.

I said "still think he's scum" in more of a "you think he's scum even after the masonry claim?" as a response to your "I'm positive some of you aren't reading w.r.t. Joker" post. Assumed it was an insinuation that you felt Joker was scum, otherwise I have no clue where you were going with it. Would really like your reads regardless, still don't see any meat on your bones.

But you're still fine with Riddle? He’s outed ONE read at this point outside of the confirmed townies.

I guess I can give you some of the ones that require less digging

I wanna reread Riddle and BSP before outing a read. I'll tell you that at this moment you seems seem likely town, but I don't remember much of your posts up until more recently. Ryu I think I'm Null on, but I wanna reread him too. Kinda getting a headache looking at the screen right now so it might wait until tomorrow. I promise to finish though

See Joker, I want to point out to you that you weren't (and still shouldn't be) sure about Riddle either. The strong townRiddle is baseless.

Kay, read up.

Not shooting. Deal with it.

pssh. You avoid suspicion for all of D1 with this vig gambit, and then not shoot.

**** outta hear with Kantrip/Riddle, Rake/JD for cop targets.

Riddle has outed 1 read. Why are you trying to get the cop off of him, and why do you trust him so much?

BSP is not a bad choice.

Riddle is Town. Kantrip is fine and is not a threat, he's a pro-town slot and doesn't need to be investigated. Rake is pro-town but I have my paranoia with him all the damn time :[. Really though, BSP/JD is probably the best course of action.

Now, I want everyone to see this. Here are Riddle’s posts since Bardull’s last read on him:

What are you even talking about?

Vote: Vinyl.

I'm not liking either Vinyl or 194 right now. A lot of fluff, almost no useful information, and they both seem quite opportunistic as far as their reads go. I'd like to see a lot more content from both of them, and less complaints about how "out of it" they are.

Vinyl's discussion of BSP in particular doesn't sit particularly well with me, which is why I chose to vote him, but I would be fine with lynching either of them. They'd make good vigilante targets too (*cough*BarDulL*cough*).

Note: Riddle still hasn’t made any pushes of his own.

I feel like almost everything I've seen from you has been interactions regarding your masonry. Reads on a bunch of other players would be awesome.

We have a couple more days for discussion, but barring anything completely unexpected, I'm down with this course of action.

Nothing useful

Now see here:

I would be more worried about this if I didn't think you really do have a shot right now.



I think Rake is town. I can't see any malicious intent from his play so far. It got the masons outed unfortunately, but he's genuinely hunting for information, which is a good thing.

I'm leaning town on Bardull. I don't think he'd parade around mentioning this gun he has unless he didn't really have one, and he has given us some thoughts so far. I want to see you use this shot though.

I believe Joker's Mason claim. I read through all of his explanations and I can see where he was coming from. So I think he's town.

By extention, I think Tako is town too.

Toaster needs to get in this game. I don't want his slot coasting into D2, so I wouldn't mind if he gets shot.

I want to see Ryu add more, or he can go toDay. I believe Kantrip pointed out that pretty much the one thing he did that was important recently was suggest that the other Mason be outed.

I want 194 to answer all the questions addressed to him or he can go too.

I don't really know what to think of Vinyl, but he's pretty much mentioned me and hopes of me being scum in this game in a lot of posts. There has to be some reason for this. I don't think he's a top priority right now, but he needs to be looked into.

Riddle seems fine so far.

Kantrip seems fine so far too.

Here are MY reads. Up to this point, anything Riddle has done to warrant not being copped, I’ve done the same. Remember, as far as providing ONE read outside of confirmed townies (Kantrip town lean), Riddle has made no pushes.

I don't need a full list, but if that's the only time you give out town reads, then yeah do that.

Nothing substantial yet again

You are correct. You will have a hard time finding any accurate meta on me until I flip in Hunter x Hunter.


I don't want to wait until the deadline or anything like that, but I would certainly like to wait until people like Red Ryu/Toaster give us content/reads before going into Night.

Still no pushes, and still no content

I feel like almost everything I've seen from you has been interactions regarding your masonry. Reads on a bunch of other players would be awesome.

With BarDulL, Rake, Joker, BSP, and Kantrip already voting 194 and 7 needed to lynch, I believe 194 is actually at L-2.

Nothing

194's whole catch-up post was pretty terrible, but this in particular irritates me to end. Too-townie/too pro-town isn't a scumtell and it never will be, this really just strikes me as an OMGUS by pressured scum on a player that has played a very pro-town game. I'm going to switch my vote to 194 as soon as I make sure that it's not a hammer.

194 should claim.

Still nothing original

Unvote, Vote: 194

That's L-1

Nothing

I appreciate the caution, but you're over-thinking it. I just want to leave my vote on 194 before I go to sleep and I trust that town won't hammer until all of the loose ends are tied up.

Nothing
And that’s it.

Bardull; Riddle made ZERO pushes during this entire time. You trust HIM more than ME, and you suggest ME for a cop target while you clear HIM as town, when there is nothing substantial differentiating our slots.

You need to explain yourself.

That’s it regarding Riddle for this day AFAIK.

However, aAnother point that makes everyone hesitant to consider Bardull scum is how he got 194 lynched, and you think they can’t be aligned from that. Let’s take a closer look at how Bardull interacted with that wagon.

Vo te: 194

Here’s his vote on 194. Notice the COMPLETE lack of a case. Bardull was the FIRST one on this wagon.

Now look at his read on 194 along with his read on Riddle:

194 - Don't like this slot and would be ok seeing it go. Has been mostly playing around in the shadows with some sideline commentary here and there. Don't see a lot of meat.


Riddle - Town lean. Love his questions and his reads, his thought process also matches my own. Didn't like his first post of the game, but he's thoroughly improved throughout the day phase and I'm pretty comfortable with him.

If you've been reading this post, you know this is a blatant contradiction when Riddle is his biggest town read.

Continuing...

And….that’s it until the hammer! Bardull doesn’t make a single case on 194. Sure, he says “I want 194 dead!” at times, but he never makes a strong case with any evidence. His vote was simply the first on the wagon.

He is in no way cleared by this flip, but it certainly got him a large amount of town points though. As scum, he probably just kept his vote on 194 once he realized he was getting lynched just because he knew how much it would distance them. And it has; none of you are even considering Bardullscum

And this is just day 1. I’m about to look into day 2.

Bardull; you have no reason to have such a strong town read on Riddle as you do, and I don’t think the 194 flip clears you in any way. In my eyes, you need to be lynched. IDK how you’re going to explain your Riddle read; I’ve pretty much quoted all of his posts for this entire game so far, and all they do is lead to contradictions in your statements.

And now your biggest point against me is that I've been sitting on the sidelines, while I can say THE SAME exact thing about your strongest town read. From this post, at least until D1, Riddle didn't make a SINGLE ORIGINAL PUSH, and you're fine with him, but you want me lynched. Explain yourself.

See, this is what I meant when I asked you to show me the reasoning on your read on Riddle. I already know you can't. More than half of his posts are in this one alone.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Actually , i thought bardull was scum,but then he jumped my already questionable wagon in a terribad way and then claimed he voted to get a better read on me when moments earlier he was saying i was slipping and needed to go.

 

[BSP]

clearing multi quotes

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

He also went out of his way to not make any sort of case on me beyond i was reaching on kantrip. Which suddenly became scummy only today.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

and yes i am twilight OMGUSING Bardull for his involvement here. He's a got a bear with a hat and sunglasses so he should take this in stride.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

I've considered BarDulL scum. I've considered it a whole bunch. And every time I've considered it, I've come to the conclusion that he's town. You should keep in mind that all the stuff that BarDulL didn't like about me, did NOT mean I was scum. It turned out I was town, and therefore any of those behaviors present in Riddle's play are also not strongly indicative of scum.

I'll think about it, again, but I don't think BarDulL is gonna be a good play.

 

[Vinylic.]

Sounds like reaching.

 

[BSP]

Now let’s see Riddle’s contributions for D2 and D3

Before we look at this though, let’s look at Bardull’s most current read on both of us.

BSP - nullscum. literally does nothing all game. nothing. only reacts to people when they push for his slot, never pushes for anyone or does real scum hunting otherwise. was pushing against my slot d1/d2 because of my vig claim, wtf, he didn't have a scum read on me and he was pushing for my claim on what grounds? none. like seriously, this was pretty dumb if he's town, and more damning if he's scum. also i'm pretty sure he has sheeped every wagon hes been on, i don't remember him spearheading any wagon or doing anything in particular that made me think he was genuine.

Riddle - strong town lean, i wish kantrip wasn't the indy, he's the only one who sees the ballerness that is riddle. riddle has lacked obvious presence in d3, but riddle's d1/d2 play is fine. he asks all the right questions, pushes all the right people, and while he comes off as kinda passive, he's actively scumhunting. i can bring up several posts of his where he does this, and i probably will, because no one gets his play. zzz.

Ok, I’m scum for not scum hunting or pushing anyone. I’ve also sheeped every wagon I’ve been on. Bold parts on the Riddle read are flat out wrong and are never backed up.

[COLLAPSE=More Riddle Posts]

Vinyl's claim was so strange. An end of the Day 1 doc claim just doesn't make any sense to me. It strikes me as more of a gambit than an actual claim, and it does make a lot of sense as a gambit for a vanilla townie to make. Essentially, if scum believes you then you save whomever you want (in this case Bardull) in return for your own life, and if Bardull is telling the truth about his role, that's awesome for town. An actual doc could just stay quiet and save Bardull and I don't see any reason for Vinyl not to do that as doc.

What complicates the matters is the lack of a death. There are a couple of possibilities. As you said RRscum is a very distinct possibility and makes a lot of sense. However, a doc save is entirely possible as well. Either Vinyl or a possible unclaimed doc (assuming Vinyl was gambitting) could have successfully saved the nkill target (Bardull or maybe Vinyl if scum believed Vinyl?).

Sorry if this is all a mess. I just have a lot of hypothetical scenarios going through my head right now,

No Push, No Reads, Sidelines

ye s I do

No Push, No Reads, Sidelines

The only four people I'd consider lynching at this exact moment are JDietz, Orboknown, BSP, and Rake.

JDietz - Hasn't done much of anything has far as providing new or useful information to town. His argument with Joker was strange and his focus on the mason claims doesn't make any sense to me as a pro-town move beyond getting some extra information, and that does not feel like what JD's goal was.

Orboknown - I'd rather this slot be shot, but if Orboknown starts contributing and anything he says strikes me as even remotely anti-town, I'd lynch him in a heartbeat. Toaster skated through all of Day 1 with absolutely no useful input, and I have no reason at all to see him as a townie at this point. Hopefully Orb is able to change my opinion.

BSP - All of BSP's reads feel very safe and pro-status quo. Based on his meta (i've read MLP and we were both in HxH) this isn't unlike his town play, but it's also highly reminiscent of the kind of caution that mafia often uses when "scumhunting."

Rake - Rake gives me a little bit of a bad vibe, but nothing major. He seems to be trying to look like an active and contributing player, while providing very few original reads. Some meta would be appreciated on Rake, but he just strikes me as a little off. Definitely a low priority for now though.

No Push

Why is this? What do you think about Vinyl's doc claim?

No Push, No Reads, Sidelines

I would also like to know what prompted that post, and I'm glad you feel the same way. Given Bardull's almost religious opposition to fluff posts (see my first post Day 1), the post seemed out of character.

I refuse to lynch JDietz before Orboknown catches up and gives us some information.

How ironic. Anyway, No Push, No Reads, Sidelines

Or anyone else, obviously.

No Push, No Reads, Sidelines

I NEED something more concrete than this. Give me a more certain opinion regarding Bardull or at LEAST clarify who you think the better targets for today are.

No Push, No Reads, Sidelines

JDietz needs to claim at the very least before we lynch him. I would also prefer content from either Orbo or Rake, but it's not absolutely necessary.

Other than that, I'm good.

No Push, No Reads, Sidelines

Agreeing with other people is a lot easier/safer than making your own reads.


Which posts?

I agree.

I am Cleon [Human].

My internet connection is really spotty right now, so expect less frequent posts. I'll try my best to keep caught up.

No Push, No Reads, Sidelines

My internet problems have yet to be fixed, and they're getting worse, so V/LA until I can figure them out.

No Push, No Reads, Sidelines

Vote: Orboknown

I don't see anything stopping us from lynching Orboknown immediately. He's clearly the play for today and there's no reason to discuss the infinitely many possibilities, since we can just wait for the flip and discuss then with the possibilities likely drastically narrowed.

I still like BarDulL and Kantrip quite a bit and want them to remain alive as long as possible. The only thing that would make me suspect either of them is Kantrip's jailer claim. Is it just me or do indy Abductor and town Jailer have some pretty major overlap in terms of night actions? Having both them in the same game seems like a strange set-up.

Safe vote, nothing original.

You're the person I want to lynch the most out of the three that were partially incriminated by Vinyl's (almost definitely) legitimate claim.

Safe, nothing original

Would jailer night actions go before abductor night actions?

No Push, No Reads, Sidelines

Okay that makes a lot more sense to me then.

No Push, No Reads, Sidelines

I can't make a super long post right now, because I have a piano lesson in like 10 minutes, but I'm all caught up and I might be able to elaborate a little on my reads/hopes for today later tonight.

I'd just like to note that I've taken clear stances on people, and there's a difference between passive play and simply not aggressive play. If you reread all of my posts you'll see some pretty clear reads, questions, etc. BSP is literally admittng to playing passively, though.

Up to D1, you literally made 1 stance , and all of your stances for D2 were very safe without substantial evidence either.

You literally used the word "cleared" regarding me after an entire reread and the only basis of it was circumstantial evidence based on two uncleared players? This fear of having controversial opinions is extremely scummy.

I've yet to see a legitimate, original read from you the entire game. All of the focus on the passiveness of BSP/me and nobody's said anything about JD's completely useless play? For shame.

Everything you’ve said in this post applies to you too.

[/COLLAPSE]

Again, I’m not seeing the basis for this town read at all.

Also, remember this:

Someone making a case for JokerTown would be someone showing Town where your Town intent lays and explains your thought process/approach to the game. So far, I haven't seen pro-town intent from anything you've done, really. If I have, it was small and minuscule in comparison to most of the cast.

When asked, Bardull never made this case for his townRiddle read. It’s such a strong town read though, IDK what the problem is.

Pretty sure I spear headed it, I was the first one on 194, lol.

Just telling both of you guys that with one mafia dead in the animal group, there's literally no chance in hell that there's a second mafia. Indy's pretty much dead by this point no matter what if he's fakeclaiming animal.

Nope, I’m not buying this. You never made a legit case on 194.

If you guys are clearing Bardull off of the 194 lynch, I want you to go back and show me his posts that he was making a case against 194. Don't let him ride this.

I’m going to go through all of his D2 + D3 posts tomorrow. Tired now.

Joker and Vinyl

Go pick the post apart, tell me I'm wrong, and then show me evidence as to why I'm wrong. You're not helping with what you're doing right now.

 

[BSP]

I've considered BarDulL scum. I've considered it a whole bunch.

What made you consider him being scum?

And every time I've considered it, I've come to the conclusion that he's town.

Show me why.

Are you not seeing these gaping holes in his Riddle read?

Are you 100% fine with what went down with Rake's slot today?

You should keep in mind that all the stuff that BarDulL didn't like about me, did NOT mean I was scum. It turned out I was town, and therefore any of those behaviors present in Riddle's play are also not strongly indicative of scum.

I'll think about it, again, but I don't think BarDulL is gonna be a good play.

I honestly don't know what you're trying to say with this last part. I didn't mention anything about Bardull in regards to you (correct me if I'm wrong).

If you think Bardull is a bad play, I want you to show me the holes in my posts, because as of right now, he's got a lot of explaining to do about a read that makes no sense and he still won't defend.

Sounds like reaching.

It's not reaching, there are legitimate holes in his read on Riddle.

How about you go show me what's wrong with the post instead of doing things like this.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

What you're asking me to do, is prove that BarDulL is town. That's impossible. You're the one that needs to prove that he's scum. I cannot go through and point to things he (or Riddle, for that matter) has said and go "See this? This is townie!" That would be dumb, because scummy players can totally do townie things and it proves nothing. It would be far more productive for you to pull up some stuff and say "See this? This is scummy!"

You don't think BarDulL's play has been super townie. Ok, that's cool. Maybe you even think he was being anti-town by seizing thread control under false pretenses. That might be a fair argument too. Explain to me why he's scum, because so far all you've done is go to great lengths to explain how he might not be town, and that he has a strong connection to Riddle. Has he actually done anything damning, cuz having connections =/= scummy. If that were the case, then you should lynch me and Tako too because we're connected like woah.

 

[BarDulL]

I'm in the middle of a response, but I see John in the thread and he probably will end up locking the thread soon, so I'll post what I've written so far and finish it up later if I have to. If you wanted a general summary of my response, this is a good illustration:

 

[Jdietz43]

I wish I was scum this game. It would be sooo easy.

 

[BarDulL]

Disclaimer: this might be repetitive in some places, but im trying to prove a point.

To begin, let’s establish what Bardull DOESN’T like when he’s looking at slots:

Lackluster contribution, Not Scum Hunting

Lackluster Contribution

Reactionary playstyle

See Bolded.

Alright, so what Bardull doesn’t like in a nutshell. He questions posts lacking in contribution, reactionary playstyles, and non scum-hunting. He also EXPLICITLY states how someone is supposed to defend a town read. Keep this in mind, it comes later.

A reactionary playstyle isn't entirely an indicator of alignment. I call people out on their style of play to get a feel for them, but typically I don't immediately jump to conclusions with a slot in question if it's 90% reactionary. Joker's slot is a prime example of this behavior; Joker was initially fairly reactionary in his approach to the game, however it wasn't a telltale indicator of scum alignment. Some people are just like that. However, I don't feel that you share the same case. At all. You've been playing reactionary all game while coasting, sheeping, not scum hunting, and never putting forth your own cases, which essentially puts you in the anti-town/scum section immediately. As a result, you have no clear, clean connections to draw from any other player, and thus you're a detriment.

Also, in regards to "defending a town read," if you feel someone is town and that people are unfairly pushing against that person's slot, you present your reasoning for why you feel that person is town and explain their behavior. This is more or less universal, however there are other ways of defending a town slot indirectly which I never delved into.

Now let’s look at where he gives his read on Riddle and on myself:

Your analysis of Riddle's play is mostly deplorable. Your responses in blue, my responses to Riddle's play in red, my response to your critique in green.

Lets gooooo

(confirming)

@BarDull I used to be a DGames regular about a year and half ago. I'd say I've played in around 15 games and I have 0 clue what my record is.

Chatterbox sounds like an awful restriction/role. It's also pretty difficult to determine whether someone is a chatterbox at this point any because tons of people have that posting style.

lacking in contribution, non scum-hunting

I already stated that Riddle's play here looks like fluff posting scum, so pointing this out is fruitless.

I was simply agreeing with you and Rake that Rake's posting style is not particularly indicative of any restriction, since that was practically the only topic of the Day. Adding to discussions, even if the input isn't new, helps town to see where people stand on issues and isn't anti-town in any way. Perhaps I'm just used to more inane conversation early on in Day 1.

Why are you so calm about potentially being shot? Do you believe that BarDulL has a gun? If so, how serious do you think he is about likely shooting you?

lacking in contribution, reactionary playstyle, and non scum-hunting

Riddle's post here is great. Fantastic. Superb. He outs a stance here w.r.t. Rake's posting and explains his rationale regarding that situation. He also questions another slot with very clear Town intent; he is trying to get a player to come forth with their opinion w.r.t. my claim, how they are reacting to it, and why. This information that he is gathering will better allow the rest of Town to understand why that player is acting the way he is and will allow us to better examine him to see if what he says lines up with how everyone sees him. It's a test for ingenuity and consistency. Perfect example of a pro-town post from Riddle.

You're quite obviously not trying to read into the intent of Riddle's posts and are trying to very poorly write him off as not being pro-town. I'm impressed that you actually have the nerve to try and classify each of Riddle's posts as useless when that is very, very, very far from the truth. That being said, regardless of your alignment, you're completely delusional about how Mafia is played and are very clearly a noob. I'm not sure if I should continue respond to each of Riddle's posts, but I will anyway since that seems to be a big crux for discussion.

I hate this explanation, but it's a really risky one for scum to use, so I'm inclined to believe it. Still, what made you think that ending RVS quickly by getting a wagon started on yourself was better for town than just letting RVS end in its own time?

His claim seems weird; I can't figure out the motivation behind it for the life of me. Other than that, I like he way he thinks. He certainly has a very different style from me, but he seems to be actively scumhunting and playing with town's best interests at heart.

What (useful) information could you possibly be hoping to gather from the answer to this question?

reactionary playstyle, and non scum-hunting

Riddle's post here is fine. His first paragraph is fine. He's trying to get a stance out of another player. Pro-town. Riddle also outs one of his own stances w.r.t. me. He reads me as Town here. Then asks a legitimate question w.r.t. another player who is asking a bad question that has no obvious significance. More evidence that insinuates that Riddle is pro-town.

Riddle is answering questions directed at him because he has to, this isn't necessarily indicative of a reactionary playstyle. If you look further (which you probably didn't), Riddle is also aggressive in that he is asking people questions (and good ones, with obvious scum hunting intent.) He is not entirely a reactionary player by any means.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

a wild john has appeared

 

[John2k4]

Wow long day at work and I see that there are 6 new pages (at 40ppp). :o

Yeah that was hammer, gimme a sec.

@Mod: Request punish for this post breaking rule 1

No punishment will be given as of that post, but I would like to ask that you cool down a notch, Bardull.

 

[BarDulL]

Sorry John, wasn't actually being serious, it's a common saying in SoCal and is used more for comedic effect. But really, RR has no excuse for wanting to lynch me considering the premise of his scum read. None.

 

[John2k4]

Rake(5): PrivateJoker, BarBelL, Sneakytako, JDitz, Vinyl
BarBelL(2): Red Ruy, BSP, Rake


Not Voting(1): Riddle

A lynch has been reached! Twilight for a couple minutes while I write flip.

 

[John2k4]

Andromanaris-Rake (Bubble Shooter [Machine], Vanilla Townie) has been lynched!

But how did you lynch a large piece of wood/metal?

Uhh...because look over there a wild Night Three!


--------------

It is now Night Three. Please send all Night Actions to me by September 29, 11:59PM MST.

 

[John2k4]

The Night phase proceeded like any other, with some quick rest for all before the fourth gathering in Town.

One was not with them. They weren't missing, but dead.

Spoiler

PrivateJoker-Brown (Bob [Dragon], Town Mason) has been killed during the night!

Noooooooooooooooo--






It is now Day Four. Deadline is set to: October 6, 11:59PM MST.

Not Voting(7): Riddle, Red Ruy, BSP, BarBelL, Sneakytako, JDitz, Vinyl

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch!

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Oh no!!! Well, I guess I deserved it, lynching Rake and all. GO TOWN!!

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Didn't commute, wifom fun.

Sneaky is town for sure now.

Mass claim to solidify the set-up analysis.

 

[BarDulL]

I thought about responding fully to BSP's post, but really, it's easily the most horrendous analysis I've ever seen. I like that he put in the effort w.r.t. trying to prove that my analysis of Riddle's slot was biased over his and that I shouldn't have a town read on Riddle, but really, Riddle is just really Townie based on his interactions as well as the intent in his posts. That being said, I think BSP just doesn't see Riddle's towniness because BSP is a newer player, but that spells problems because it makes it harder to read into BSP's intentions.

All I really see BSP doing is sitting on his hands and not doing much with his slot unless someone pushes against him. His knee jerk reaction to being pushed is to then call a player out on their reasoning for pushing him and try pursuing them as a scumread (at least, from what I've seen.) Actually, I don't think I've really seen BSP do much outside of try to take thread control away from me for no real reason, i.e. him pursuing me based off my gambit.

BSP, what are your reads right now and why?

Aside from that, I feel that RR/JD are the correct plays. I don't trust RR's claim anymore considering his claimed role is commuter and that he hasn't been trying to play like a commuter the entire game. He hasn't been trying to draw night kills to him whatsoever. There's also the fact that he's very well connected to 194 and it very much looks like he was trying to deter the 194 lynch or at least turn it to someone else on D1. He also wants me dead on the premise of my vig claim, but I showed very clear town intent with that claim and used my thread control to push for 194 and to out information/get reads on everyone. JD falls under the same category more or less, except to a worse degree. JD's reads were atrocious day 2 and his play was very anti-town. There was no reason to push for me based off my vig claim, and he was clearly not reading into my intent. There's also the fact that he was using AtE and trying to use the "dumb" card to backpedal out of his play. He then "rereads" the entire game and comes up with several new reads, which is really shady, and each read seems to be sheeping popular opinion. He also reverts on his Riddle read and claims that he felt Riddle was not clear town even after saying Riddle was Town and that he "did not understand why Kantrip/BarDulL had Riddle as town." This seemed like an attempt to try and ride RR/BSP's opinion of my slot and, again, an attempt to backpedal out of his own new read.

On a related note, BSP says that I shouldn't get points for 194 because I didn't write a case on 194, but BSP is being too black and white; I had thread control 99% of day 1 and pushed/secured 194's lynch as a result. As Rake said earlier, I had no reason to do this if I was scum because I was essentially pushing for 194's death rather pointlessly when his death could have otherwise been averted.

In regards to the night kill, I feel that scum didn't kill me and instead were forced to kill Joker because Joker/Tako are pretty much clear alongside Vinyl. Since killing my slot would potentially allow clears to have majority rule, it's not a wise decision to go for me just yet.

That being said, my vote is going towards:

Vote: JD

JD, where do you stand right now with the rest of the cast? Out your reads and explain all the backpedaling discrepancies in your play. You seemed very wishy washy w.r.t. your read on Riddle yesterday as well as your Town read on me, and I feel you are just trying to ride whoever seems to be in a power position at the time.