Buffing characters using codes - let's discuss.

[1048576]

Make Rest Kill

 

[MBlaze]

Mario needs:

-More range
-More priority
-More power and knockback on smashes and some areials for Christ's sake (Somewhat like Luigi's)
-Improved recovery

 

[MuBa]

Give Snake super armor frames in every one of his attacks. Thanks in advance.

 

[Eten]

I know you guys don't want to exaggerate with the buffing and all but just for fun, it would be cool to do some crazy stuff:

You're right. If I could somehow, like, redesign characters altogether? I'd have so much fun.

Samus didn't turn out so well in Brawl. She's slow, floaty, giant, lacks strong KO moves and her advantages(like the fact that all of her aerials automatically autocancel for no more than 5 frames of landlag on any move) are negated by the fact that she has a poor shorthop and the lack of shieldstun and hitstun to combo much or put any shield pressure on anybody with it. Her projectiles also got nerfed big time.

So if I got to redesign Samus?

First, dsmash becomes her Dtilt, and the new dtilt is bomb laying. She also now has a crawl that puts her in morphball that rolls on the stage. Instead of her having a one-jump w/ general falling stun afterwards on her screw attack, I'd change her up-B screw attack to work like ROB's up-B, with a little less 'fuel', so it works more like her screw attack + space jump combined.

Her Down-b, now that you drop static time bombs more original to the Metroid series through dtilt, would be a Sonic-like over-b Speed Boost. instead of the starting hop that sonic has, she takes a moment before she reaches full speed and damage.

I'd take some of the lag out firing her Missiles and Super Missiles, and give Super Missiles more horizontal instead of vertical knockback again. Lastly, I'd make her fall about 1.5xas fast(same result as high gravity I think) and give her decent aerial mobility.

Lastly, I'd take about a foot off of her height, so she's no longer nearly Gannondorf's head height and is more about Link's size. And change nothing else, not even give her better kill moves or anything. She'd go from "frustratingly hard to use and weak" to "awesome" just like that.

It seems to me that Metroid has always been more popular in the USA than it is in Japan, and the fact that Samus got poor treatment in brawl and being a character that isn't fitting to Samus, and the Metroid series over all getting the treatment of "finally one other Metroid character, ZSS which is essentially a sexualized version of Samus w/ a completely made up move set dealing with a plasma whip and Ivy from Soul Calibur like voice/attitude!" while things like Ridley as a character is excluded because it would have been too similar to a Pokemon. :venting frustration:

Being able to redesign Samus like this would make me very happy.

 

[Sgt. Baker]

With the character buffs.........

Ganondorf: Less lag (I can deal with his speed but less lag man!), better grab range.

Wario: Just a tad longer range on F-Smash, make D-Smash shorter.

Sheik: A good kill move

Marth: Make him manly

Oh yeah, then they are perfect

 

[Greenpoe]

Since when did middle tier characters (Mario) need buffs? The goal should be for everyone to be in mid tier, not high tier.

I disagree. Top-tier=too good, but high tier is great: Mostly strengths with some weaknesses. That way, it would be more about tactics and your character rather than counterpicks.

 

[Eten]

Sheik is fine w/o a 'good kill move'... I think she comboes and builds damage and has extreme speed/aerial mobility, along with good off-stage gimping stuff to make up for the fact that she can only KO extremely well on stage with sweetspotted upsmash.

A *real* fix would be to have the game not have to load the Zelda/Sheik model during the transform and have it preoloaded like it was in Melee so transform lag is only the lag on the move. This goes for Pokemon Trainer too. Zelda is way better in brawl than in Melee and has a ton of KO moves, but because you literally have to wait on the variable load time to switch to Zelda and back is the problem now in switching between the two.

 

[HeroMystic]

The high tier is great because they have a large amount of exploits that can be used in battle. For example, Lucario's high damage factor can be used for his favor if he's unspeakably good at not getting hit. Marth is just great if he plays gay (as in, spacing and zoning) the entire time.

The mid/low has a low amount of exploits. Meaning, they take larger amount of understanding of the character, mindgames, and skill to beat the high tier, let alone the top tier.

With a game of so little options, you can't get much clearer with your character's performance against others.

 

[Greenpoe]

Sheik is fine w/o a 'good kill move'... I think she comboes and builds damage and has extreme speed/aerial mobility, along with good off-stage gimping stuff to make up for the fact that she can only KO extremely well on stage with sweetspotted upsmash.

A *real* fix would be to have the game not have to load the Zelda/Sheik model during the transform and have it preoloaded like it was in Melee so transform lag is only the lag on the move. This goes for Pokemon Trainer too. Zelda is way better in brawl than in Melee and has a ton of KO moves, but because you literally have to wait on the variable load time to switch to Zelda and back is the problem now in switching between the two.

That works the way it is, so Sheik at least has to knock them away and transform tatically, rather than just do it on a whim, Sheik has to d-smash then transform.

 

[Eten]

That works the way it is, so Sheik at least has to knock them away and transform tatically, rather than just do it on a whim, Sheik has to d-smash then transform.

You still would, because you can still get hit out of the transform delay, you wouldn't be able to it on a whim any more than you could in melee. You're only untouchable during the loading delay during the transform.

The loading delay is a silly design choice. The fact is that if you PAUSE the game during the loading delay, the transform is actually faster because it can then load while the game is paused. Messed up, no? I play Sheik as a main and I do pretty well w/ the KOs sometimes, but a few times there are characters that just don't like to get KOed by Sheik, and I'll switch to Zelda. To work around active load times in a real match and knowing that my transform is going to be of slight random variation in time doesn't seem right.

Same goes for Pokemon Trainer.

 

[Steeler]

pt transform lag is incredibly dumb, reducing it to melee-like lag would suddenly give pt a lot more freedom in switching, and make him quite a bit more viable in tournaments. people could play 2 out of the 3 and do fine. and don't give me that "the point is to use all three pokemon" bs. in pokemon games, you don't send out your gyarados on an electric attack because you'll die in one hit. you use your best pokemon depending on the situation. sakurai tried to make it so it was necessary to use all three, but that philosophy fails so hard when you have loading lag and unbalanced characters (ivysaur) in the first place.

basically make ivysaur better (he's like a bad olimar or gw, good spacing but poor damage output and pretty bad kill options...and ****ty recovery) and improve the switching/fatigue mechanics. now pt is suddenly top-mid or bottom-high caliber.

i would suggest improving tether recoveries if it didn't make olimar instant top tier.

 

[Eten]

Hands down the "character buff" change I'd support and feel that it would be universally supported would be a "character transform change" that would somehow(as I doubt it is possible with the way you can modify code) eliminate the load-lag time, in addition to removing fatigue and auto-switch on death for Pokemon Trainer. I have no idea why in game development they came up with the idea that "YOU must use all 3 Pokemon!!1"

 

[JohnAnon]

Eh, I'd rather have everyone broken and equal, rather than everyone balanced and equal.

You know, there are several fighting games that do that, and it's ****.

 

[MBlaze]

Since when is Mario mid? As much as he deserves mid, he's currently low teir.

 

[4Serial]

Give Link more distance on up+b and trade his tether with Sheik's side+b chain tether
-__________________- wtf that **** is so unfair.

 

[PKNintendo]

Fix Ness HORRIBLE grab release animation. And PKT shouldn't make him free fall unless it's PKT2.

 

[4Serial]

yeah, fix grab releases for Wario, Ness and Lucas
**** brawl for being so weird

 

[hippyman69]

pt should in fact have blaze, flood, growth?? for charizard squirtle and ivy when their damage gets high. ont the other way around. that way, it is actually true to the games.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

i think we should keep the weaknesses of characters intact for these are the defining factors of said character. instead, we should focus on improving their intended strengths. link should not get a boost to his UpB, but rather more killing options, more racking up dmg options. you could perhaps increase the distance of his tether recovery. we want to promote the uniqueness of the character, not muddle it down so everyone is equal. we don't want to homogenize everyone, that would be boring.

in the case of ivysaur, perhaps his tether recovery is a bit easy to gimp, but i disagree that he has poor dmg options. if you're good you can land bullet seed, and razor leaf spam is the bane of any non-ranged attacker's existence, and his down smash is nearly instant and has a huge radius.

and with the hacks, specifically air dodge, ivysaur is MUCH more deadly. vine whip is suddenly a potent killer, killing medium weights at 90%, and if that misses, an S-cancelled upair is like a nuclear blast of flower power.

 

[PKNintendo]

i think we should keep the weaknesses of characters intact for these are the defining factors of said character. instead, we should focus on improving their intended strengths. link should not get a boost to his UpB, but rather more killing options, more racking up dmg options. you could perhaps increase the distance of his tether recovery. we want to promote the uniqueness of the character, not muddle it down so everyone is equal. we don't want to homogenize everyone, that would be boring.

in the case of ivysaur, perhaps his tether recovery is a bit easy to gimp, but i disagree that he has poor dmg options. if you're good you can land bullet seed, and razor leaf spam is the bane of any non-ranged attacker's existence, and his down smash is nearly instant and has a huge radius.

and with the hacks, specifically air dodge, ivysaur is MUCH more deadly. vine whip is suddenly a potent killer, killing medium weights at 90%, and if that misses, an S-cancelled upair is like a nuclear blast of flower power.

To all of that. No.

Weaknesses are don't define a character, they're just plain stupid. Having Oli with a **** recovery or Ness and Squirtle with a bad grab release animation is just plain awful. Before we buff Brawl, we need to eliminate ALL WEAKNESSES!

 

[HeroMystic]

You know, there are several fighting games that do that, and it's ****.

I'm assuming it's the bad ****.

Don't get me wrong, I'd be very pleased with nerfing the crap out of the top tier to put them at high/mid tier level, but buffing is so much safer (easier) than nerfing.

Not to mention that Brawl doesn't have much universal fighting options going for it in the first place.

 

[Kiki52]

Fix Ness HORRIBLE grab release animation. And PKT shouldn't make him free fall unless it's PKT2.

Yes I definitely support taking away Ness' grab release animation.

Also, Jiangjunizzy I don't think having Marth and Charizard being able to do an infinite on Ness is what I could a 'weakness' of a character. It is more like a bug that wasn't either tested or fixed, or Sakurai was being a complete (insert random swear word here) and wanted to make it happen for (insert another swear word).

A weakness is more like Ike being slow for his power, or Sonic having low KO potential due to being fast. A game breaking thing that needs to be fixed is Ness being instant death when Marth or Charizard press the z-button over and over again to win the battle.

Do you get what I mean?

 

[Greenpoe]

To all of that. No.

Weaknesses are don't define a character, they're just plain stupid. Having Oli with a **** recovery or Ness and Squirtle with a bad grab release animation is just plain awful. Before we buff Brawl, we need to eliminate ALL WEAKNESSES!

Olimar deserves his weak recovery. That, I believe, Sakurai put in on purpose, because if he had a normal recovery, he'd easily be top tier.

 

[err]

Yoshi:
let him Jump out of shield

Falcon:
1/2 knockback on sideB;
old knee sweetspot (probably too difficult to code)

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

To all of that. No.

Weaknesses are don't define a character, they're just plain stupid. Having Oli with a **** recovery or Ness and Squirtle with a bad grab release animation is just plain awful. Before we buff Brawl, we need to eliminate ALL WEAKNESSES!

weaknesses DO define a character, just as much as their strengths do.

we could probably guess that the grab release is not intended, therefore it is something that can be eliminated. but when i'm talking about are the intended weaknesses. link has always had trouble recovering since smash 64. ike is designed to be slow. pikachu is supposed to be light. there's no reason to change these things, because those attributes are supposed to fit that character's "style".

what you refer to are flaws, which in itself can be categorized, ones that are intentional and ones that are not. yoshi hasn't been able to jump out of his shield since smash64, so we can deem it as an intentional design decision and at the very least respect the character designer's choice.

however, in the case of olimar and ivysaur we have 2 contradictory cases. compared to ZSS, whom can use her upB as many times as she wants, can tether with her forward B and use her downB to get an extra jump, we can definitely see some bias when it comes to returning to the stage.

we could probably give the same option to ivy/oli. although this was an intentional design decision, the fact that another character that also uses a tether recovery can use it as many times as she wishes is probably a good enough reason to give the same option to ivy/oli. we must be careful though! olimar is extremely powerful, and the risk of choosing him is the fact that his recovery sucks. this gives the character some personality.

 

[mc4]

let snake us his pistol lol

 

[Rouenne]

Link:

-Increase his recovery and jumping
-Make him a little faster overall and faster runner.
-Remove starting lag from Spin Attack and give it more knockback.

 

[0RLY]

Ganon's pummel deals only 1%. Someone with such amazing pectorals and large arms shouldn't deal such pathetic damage.

Samus should be able to attack out of her bomb jump animation. Not bomb lay, bomb jump from the explosion.

Let Samus crawl using the Morph Ball LOL!

Increase Charge Shot's knockback. If any move should receive a power up, it's this one. This attack doesn't even kill at 140% on Final Destination. Those freeze frames make the attack easier to DI anyways.
- either the above or the below option, not both -
Let Samus charge her lazur in midair. Every character with a chargeable special can do this. Why not Samus?

More knockback on Super Missiles? Seriously, these don't kill in Super Sudden Death.

If this is too much, give Samus landing lag on her fair or bair or something.

 

[Super_Sonic8677]

Sonic: Faster ground,air and attack speed.
More damage on all moves.
More knock back on smashes and bair.

SamuraiPanda,this thread seems sorta familiar. lol

 

[SGX]

Captain Falcon:
-More Priority in all his attacks
-The Knee is much easier to sweetspot, to the level it was in Melee
-Give him back his recovery with Falcon Kick from Melee
-Give him super armor on Falcon Punch
-Give Falcon Kick less ending lag

Ganondorf:
-Increase Grab Range
-Give him back his recovery with Warlock Kick from Melee
-Give Warlock Kick less ending lag
-Give him super armor on Warlock Punch
-Increase speed of all his smash attacks

Pokemon Trainer:
-Removal of Fatigue System
-No Forced Switching upon being KOd
-Give Charizard a couple extra jumps/make his current ones go higher
-Give Charizard more range on his aerials and smashes as well as more priority
-Stregthen Ivysaur's jumps significantly and allow him to use his up special multiple times
-Decrease lag slightly on Ivysaur's usmash, uair, and dair.
-Increase distance Squirtle's up special travels.

I definitely agree with these changes.
I'd also suggest Ganon getting a slightly higher full jump. It's pretty abysmal, and with the increasing popularity of gravity codes, it makes it even worse.

 

[OmegaXXII]

If anyone has to be buffed it should definetly be Link and none another than Captain Falcon himself.

The captain really needs his Sweet Knee Justice back.

 

[Disfunkshunal]

Toonlink:
-dair can be cancelled
-remove idle stance
-less lag on boomerang

Diddy
-penut gun does 7%
after side b kick he can still do upb

i dont think these will be gamebreaking but they will help

 

[wazgood]

Scar Jumping!!!!!!
edit: also melee sounds. brawl falcon sounds like a *****