Broke their shields!! Now what...

[Meese]

For most characters, breaking an opponents shields means a fully charged smash or a ridiculous falcon/warlock punch to the temple and a practically guaranteed kill.

Yesterday, I broke my friends shield as ZSS and then I paused... WHAT THE HELL DO I DO?!
I charged up a f-smash like I probably would with any other character... *zap*
Do my dismay, they barely went off screen.

SO, what is the most efficient way to follow up a shield break??
You may answer in terms of damage, or kill capability.

Please discuss

 

[Sieguest]

I don't use ZSS much, but if you broke their shields, I would do a dash attack followed by a up smash attack and an up air attack, her midair attacks are really powerful, so I think that will knock them back a little and rack up a good 22-28% damage.

 

[Ussi]

It depends on their % now wouldn't it?

IMO it woud be the best % combo you can think of since ZSS doesn't have smashes that kill..

fully charged dsmash > dsmash > something that kills/damages a lot

Course what do I know, I'm just guessing and trolling.

 

[Adapt]

It depends on their % now wouldn't it?

IMO it woud be the best % combo you can think of since ZSS doesn't have smashes that kill..

fully charged dsmash > dsmash > something that kills/damages a lot

Course what do I know, I'm just guessing and trolling.

Yes, if your opponent is not is killing range, fully charged d-smash>d-smash are the best starters.

Depending on what their damage percentage and character are will determine the next attack.

these are some relative guidelines that depend on character.

at 0, quickly use a rising uair and try and get another uair in.
at 20-60% dash-attack>utilt is awesome
at higer percentages try a fair or bair and attempt to kill/gimp/edge-guard them

 

[Meese]

cool thanks for all the ideas

 

[sasook]

How about retreating a bit, and hitting them with the flip kick? If they're in KO percents, that is.

 

[Adapt]

How about retreating a bit, and hitting them with the flip kick? If they're in KO percents, that is.

That will always knock them downwards because a character in stun is considered to be in the air. (This was done to prevent infinite stuns since you can only stun once until they hit the ground again)

 

[Ussi]

That will always knock them downwards because a character in stun is considered to be in the air. (This was done to prevent infinite stuns since you can only stun once until they hit the ground again)

I think he meant when their shield was broken. Not after you stunned them for the ideal damage racking.

 

[DeliciousCake]

I think he meant when their shield was broken. Not after you stunned them for the ideal damage racking.

Then you might as well D-smash -> B-air. Higher percentage and no risk.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Dsmash, dash attack, usmash. follow up with upB, backroll, charged B, grab. if upB hits this will probably connect.

on lower percentages only though

 

[sasook]

I meant after their shield broke, and if their percent is high, the flipkick can be a substitute for a charged smash, since it's strong enough. Just a suggestion is all.

If the % isn't in KO range, then I agree with Cake, dsmash to bair.

 

[DeliciousCake]

If the % isn't in KO range, then I agree with Cake, dsmash to bair.

D-smash to b-air is a kill combo, I wouldn't do it unless I would get a kill from it.

 

[sasook]

Oh I see....I'm gonna have to change that in my playstyle then lol. So, which is stronger out of the 2? Or are both viable options for a broken shield?

 

[Meese]

i just saw a match where this situation cost Snakeee the game against DSF ;(
DSF was at like 120 and Snakee did d-smash, d-smash and then i think he slipped and did an u-air instead of a b-air. No kill, and then DSF got him

 

[Ussi]

Oh I see....I'm gonna have to change that in my playstyle then lol. So, which is stronger out of the 2? Or are both viable options for a broken shield?

dsmash > dsmash > bair will do more % and should be stronger as well. for more % you can do dsmash > dsmash > some combo

 

[NickRiddle]

0~40 Fully charged dsmash>dsmash>fair for damage.
41~80 Fully charged dsmash>dsmash>landing uair>uair/bair/up-b/usmash
81~140 Fully charged dsmash>dsmash>bair/fair/uair/side-b or fully charge dsmash>early down-b to try to kill/knock off the level.
141~160 Fully charged fsmash will kill, so why bother using a different attack? If you don't think it's safe, fully charged dsmash>dsmash>bair/uair.

Moral of the story?
Fully charged dsmash>dsmash>something.

 

[Meese]

Moral of the story?
Fully charged dsmash>dsmash>something.

Haha. Fair enough.

 

[Bouse]

You should totally jab them.

 

[FadedImage]

well if you wanna look at it purely analytically (between doing a down-special grounded kick or a double d-smash b-air):

B-Air has better growth than d-special, but d-special has a better base. However, you won't be able to double d-smash with the d-special, so that's ~25% less damage they'll have. So it actually works out that B-Air will kill better since you initiated it with two down-smashes.

In conclusion, if they're close to kill percent, get on the side of them that's closer to the wall, fully charge a d-smash, do another, and then run past and b-air.

If they aren't in kill percent, just fullycharge a d-smash and do your normal damage racking d-smash combo.


Yeah, it's pretty ****ty that ZSS's best shieldbreak hit is something you can just normally mindgames people into... I want ****ing PKFlash or Donkey Punch or something... ):

 

[fkacyan]

You know, fsmash isn't that bad if you actually have the time to space it properly and charge it.

It's like people have forgotten the move exists.

 

[Meese]

You know, fsmash isn't that bad if you actually have the time to space it properly and charge it.

This is a valid point. Except charging doesn't really make that much of an improvement to the move unless your like right next to them. Spacing is irrelevant. But an opponent that sees this charging shouldn't have much trouble preparing to DI and will most likely survive unless they're at ridiculous %.
I think I'd use side b before f-smash

 

[DeliciousCake]

You know, fsmash isn't that bad if you actually have the time to space it properly and charge it.

It's like people have forgotten the move exists.

I use it after D-smash all the time. I just don't recommend it to others.

 

[kuenzel]

I was in that situation at a tourney yesterday-- I did a fully charged f-smash out of instinct, and it killed him, though it probably wasn't the best option.
It IS viable, however.

 

[fkacyan]

This is a valid point. Except charging doesn't really make that much of an improvement to the move unless your like right next to them. Spacing is irrelevant. But an opponent that sees this charging shouldn't have much trouble preparing to DI and will most likely survive unless they're at ridiculous %.
I think I'd use side b before f-smash

Nobody I've ever hit with fsmash has ever DI'd it properly, because I use it so rarely that they don't expect it.

If your side-B isn't deteorated, I don't know how you broke their shield.

 

[Irsic]

Depending on their %s, as a Lucas player, under 55% (assuming middle-weight character) I would fully charge PK Freeze. Above 65%, fully charged upsmash, unless an upper heavy weight character, then either PK Freeze, or if they stage allows, hit with a full PKT2.

Otherwise at 65% middle-weight and down, fully charged upsmash. Yeah baby.

edit: >

I just realized that this is in the ZSS forums, rather than Tactical Discussion.

 

[ph00tbag]

Depending on their %s, as a Lucas player, under 55% (assuming middle-weight character) I would fully charge PK Freeze. Above 65%, fully charged upsmash, unless an upper heavy weight character, then either PK Freeze, or if they stage allows, hit with a full PKT2.

Otherwise at 65% middle-weight and down, fully charged upsmash. Yeah baby.

edit: >

I just realized that this is in the ZSS forums, rather than Tactical Discussion.

Once when I was like, 10, I accidently walked into a women's bathroom. So I know how you feel.

 

[Ussi]

Once when I was like, 10, I accidently walked into a women's bathroom. So I know how you feel.

I walked into the men's bathroom in this rest area but since the janitor was female they had switched the bathrooms for the day. One of my most confused moments ever

I feel your pain

 

[xiferp]

If your side-B isn't deteorated, I don't know how you broke their shield.

Shielded hits don't decay?

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I like the Fsmash if they're over 140.

If you break a shield can they they DI the next hit? In other words, could they apply DI to the Fsmash?

 

[kuenzel]

Shielded hits don't decay?

He simply meant, the usual way to break their shield is with constant pressure from over B's- so it's probably too stale to kill by the time its broken

If you break a shield can they they DI the next hit? In other words, could they apply DI to the Fsmash?

Yes. In fact, one could say they will probably DI better than usual because they're not focused on anything else.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Yes. In fact, one could say they will probably DI better than usual because they're not focused on anything else.

Thanks. I've been wondering for a long time whether or not you could DI while in shield stun. I kind of thought that if you were really stunned, the game wouldn't take any input from you at all until it broke.

 

[kuenzel]

Thanks. I've been wondering for a long time whether or not you could DI while in shield stun. I kind of thought that if you were really stunned, the game wouldn't take any input from you at all until it broke.

Well you could think of it like this: You ARE stunned- but the moment you are hit, the stun is gone, and the hitlag starts, allowing for you to DI.

 

[xiferp]

Yes they do- He simply meant, the usual way to break their shield is with constant pressure fom over B's- so it's probably too stale to kill by the time its broken

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=208476&highlight=shielded

So it's very possible to break a shield with only Plasma Whip and have it undecayed.

 

[FadedImage]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=208476&highlight=shielded

So it's very possible to break a shield with only Plasma Whip and have it undecayed.

lol, you're not getting it. He means, if you're spamming side-b and pressuring their shield, you've probably HIT THEM at some point, not JUST their shield.

btw, just let this discussion die already.

 

[Meese]

lol, you're not getting it. He means, if you're spamming side-b and pressuring their shield, you've probably HIT THEM at some point, not JUST their shield.

btw, just let this discussion die already.

I agree. I have my answer.
Thanks for everyone's input.
Even the comments about women's bathrooms and janitors

 

[noradseven]

D-smash to b-air is a kill combo, I wouldn't do it unless I would get a kill from it.

Amendment to this, charged D-smash, to first two A jabs, it knocks them up a bit more plus does a bit more damage for free, also depending on the stage, u-air, works just as well.

For damage uhhh down smash down smash, short hop forward air :D, also puts them in a nasty spot.