Breaking the Ice - Ice Climbers DLC Discussion Thread - Under New Ownership!

[Flor@]

Done. I voted yes for every veteran and was a bit more lenient on some characters I like disregarding their status.

Ice Man just gave me an idea for an ICies trailer. Maybe there could be a part where Mega Man knocks down Popo and starts using the Ice Shot, but then Nana hurls herself at him to avenge Popo. It could vary depending on how/if they end up changing.

I would love to see solo IC become a thing and have a trailer for them with callbacks to their duo status. Maybe make some small changes to their moveset to make it clear that they're fighting for love or something. Haha, the ICs are the poster children of Smash. Without smash, who knows where they'd be now. CMONNNNN OCTOBER!

 

[Trick or Treat]

I would much rather see a Luma-fied Nana than see a Solo IC.

 

[FunAtParties]

I would much rather see a Luma-fied Nana than see a Solo IC.

I thought the problem with Nana was 3DS graphically couldn't handle both characters at a time, and the reason why RosaLuma works is because Luma doesn't require that kind of graphical power? So going by that, changing the fundamental way IC's work wouldn't matter just as long as there are two of them at full graphical resolution right?

 

[Trick or Treat]

I thought the problem with Nana was 3DS graphically couldn't handle both characters at a time, and the reason why RosaLuma works is because Luma doesn't require that kind of graphical power? So going by that, changing the fundamental way IC's work wouldn't matter just as long as there are two of them at full graphical resolution right?

I always thought it was due to Nana having her own AI, and the 3DS couldn't handle that, rather than being a graphics issue.

So going by that, modifying Nana to be more of a Luma that we control shouldn't pose much of a problem.

 

[ROBnWatch]

I always thought it was due to Nana having her own AI, and the 3DS couldn't handle that, rather than being a graphics issue.

So going by that, modifying Nana to be more of a Luma that we control shouldn't pose much of a problem.

I agree that it was AI and not graphics. Though I'd rather have traditional ICies on Wii U (and something, don't care what, to make up for it on 3DS) than a "Luma-fied" Nana.

 

[FunAtParties]

I always thought it was due to Nana having her own AI, and the 3DS couldn't handle that, rather than being a graphics issue.

So going by that, modifying Nana to be more of a Luma that we control shouldn't pose much of a problem.

That's what's been said, but hearing that he took out bones of their skeleton to try and get them to work tells me something differently.

I think this more of a GPU problem than CPU.

 

[Trick or Treat]

I agree that it was AI and not graphics. Though I'd rather have traditional ICies on Wii U (and something, don't care what, to make up for it on 3DS) than a "Luma-fied" Nana.

I had a whole discussion about this in my homeland, the Smash 4 Social, a couple of days ago.

My opinion is that I'm a bit annoyed by how 3DS players would rather have everyone lose out on the Ice Climbers than it being just them. I don't like the "if we can't have them, no one should" mentality in this case.

Even if I myself only had 3DS, I wouldn't want the Wii U players lose out on the ICies just because my version can't handle it, especially since it would be just one character. Most people would be mad.

Although if the 3DS got something in return maybe they would get over it?

 

[FunAtParties]

I had a whole discussion about this in my homeland, the Smash 4 Social, a couple of days ago.

My opinion is that I'm a bit annoyed by how 3DS players would rather have everyone lose out on the Ice Climbers than it being just them. I don't like the "if we can't have them, no one should" mentality in this case.

Even if I myself only had 3DS, I wouldn't want the Wii U players lose out on the ICies just because my version can't handle it, especially since it would be just one character. Most people would be mad.

Although if the 3DS got something in return maybe they would get over it?

I agree, 3DS owners shouldn't make this as big a deal as they do. They paid less for the game, Ice Climbers apparently can't work on the 3DS, so why is it such a problem the 3DS is missing 1 character?

 

[Trick or Treat]

I agree, 3DS owners shouldn't make this as big a deal as they do. They paid less for the game, Ice Climbers apparently can't work on the 3DS, so why is it such a problem the 3DS is missing 1 character?

Exactly.

Either way, the 3DS wouldn't get the Ice Climbers. So why does it matter whether Wii U players get them? Does that suddenly make it more "fair" and make them feel better?

It is more unfair to the Wii U players who love Ice Climbers, because we are the ones losing out. The 3DS wouldn't have them either way, because they don't work, so they aren't losing anything.

And it isn't like ICies would be Wii U exclusive just for the hell of it. It would only be because they simply can't work on 3DS, that much is unavoidable, without tweaking the character significantly.

 

[FunAtParties]

Exactly.

Either way, the 3DS wouldn't get the Ice Climbers. So why does it matter whether Wii U players get them? Does that suddenly make it more "fair" and make them feel better?

It is more unfair to the Wii U players who love Ice Climbers, because we are the ones losing out. The 3DS wouldn't have them either way, because they don't work, so they aren't losing anything.

And it isn't like ICies would be Wii U exclusive just for the hell of it. It would only be because they simply can't work on 3DS, that much is unavoidable, without tweaking the character significantly.

Agreed on all points. It's obviously not intentional, so they shouldn't take it so personal, and just get over it. If there was a character that could only work for 3DS, I wouldn't be nearlys as salty as they are if it was 3DS exclusive.

 

[Trick or Treat]

Agreed on all points. It's obviously not intentional, so they shouldn't take it so personal, and just get over it. If there was a character that could only work for 3DS, I wouldn't be nearlys as salty as they are if it was 3DS exclusive.

I was pretty much the only one who felt that way, when I discussed this in the Smash 4 thread. No one else agreed with me. :x I thought it made a lot of sense :/

 

[FunAtParties]

I was pretty much the only one who felt that way, when I discussed this in the Smash 4 thread. No one else agreed with me. :x I thought it made a lot of sense :/

Well I agree with you, but I'll probably be accused for bias or something. Still think it's the most sensible of all the solutions, but then again, a lot of people like to form their opinions on how Sakurai likes to think, and in their defense, they're probably pretty close.

 

[Trick or Treat]

Well I agree with you, but I'll probably be accused for bias or something. Still think it's the most sensible of all the solutions, but then again, a lot of people like to form their opinions on how Sakurai likes to think, and in their defense, they're probably pretty close.

I just wish he wasn't so adamant about the "both versions NEED to have the same roster" thing. If ONE character was a Wii U exclusive and purely due to technical limitations, that really shouldn't be a big deal.

 

[Marigi174]

I'm dishartened that Daisy is seventh on the poll yet IC and/or SoPo aren't even in the top ten...

 

[Trick or Treat]

I'm dishartened that Daisy is seventh on the poll yet IC and/or SoPo aren't even in the top ten...

As a huge Daisy supporter I am happy to see her on there.

As a huge IC supporter I am sad they aren't on there.

Maybe many people kind of lost hope that they would even be considered at this point?

 

[TheBeardedPunisher]

I thought the problem with Nana was 3DS graphically couldn't handle both characters at a time, and the reason why RosaLuma works is because Luma doesn't require that kind of graphical power? So going by that, changing the fundamental way IC's work wouldn't matter just as long as there are two of them at full graphical resolution right?

It is more so the AI issue. The part with the bone removal and such to simplify the models was mainly to test if they got rid of extra "luggage" then it would be enough for their mechanic to function properly. But alas, the 3DS apparently doesn't seem to support that specific mechanic. If people who want them on the 3DS will take no less than their traditional playstyle, I don't know what to tell them.

My opinion is that I'm a bit annoyed by how 3DS players would rather have everyone lose out on the Ice Climbers than it being just them. I don't like the "if we can't have them, no one should" mentality in this case.

THANK YOU!

 

[FunAtParties]

It is more so the AI issue. The part with the bone removal and such to simplify the models was mainly to test if they got rid of extra "luggage" then it would be enough for their mechanic to function properly. But alas, the 3DS apparently doesn't seem to support that specific mechanic. If people who want them on the 3DS will take no less than their traditional playstyle, I don't know what to tell them.

So what exactly is the problem with the AI then if you don't mind me asking? Is it a situation where the 3DS can't even handle one Ice Climber, or is it more like there's just not enough processing power to support 4 IC's at once? From what I've heard so far, it sounds like it could be either or.

 

[Marigi174]

So what exactly is the problem with the AI then if you don't mind me asking? Is it a situation where the 3DS can't even handle one Ice Climber, or is it more like there's just not enough processing power to support 4 IC's at once? From what I've heard so far, it sounds like it could be either or.

The 3DS is capable of supporting six complex AIs at a time (source: multi-man smash). Therefore, it is probably just a problem when you have three IC players and a fourth player using any character.

 

[FunAtParties]

The 3DS is capable of supporting six complex AIs at a time (source: multi-man smash). Therefore, it is probably just a problem when you have three IC players and a fourth player using any character.

So instead of just limiting their use, he cut the character altogether with? Wow.

 

[Flor@]

So instead of just limiting their use, he cut the character altogether with? Wow.

He was most likely quite hesitant to change the ICs too much, which would likely be to the fans' disliking. But what's smarter (and more sneaky) is to plan to add them as DLC after the game has been out for a year, so fans learn to miss them, and nobody complains when they come back as a solo climber. =3
EDIT: Also, extra money.

 

[FunAtParties]

He was most likely quite hesitant to change the ICs too much, which would likely be to the fans' disliking. But what's smarter (and more sneaky) is to plan to add them as DLC after the game has been out for a year, so fans learn to miss them, and nobody complains when they come back as a solo climber. =3
EDIT: Also, extra money.

Going by what @ Marigi174 said, the only thing he'd have to change is how many Ice Climbers are allowed on the field at a time. 3 IC max w/o a fourth character, or 2 IC's with 2 other characters sounds like it could be entirely possible. If true, the cut is absolutely, inexcusably ridiculous. There are stage limitations in 8 player smash for similar reasons, blocking how many IC's can fit on the field at a time would serve a similar purpose. I mean, it's not like he cut stages from the Wii U version, because they don't work in 8 player smash did he?

 

[Trick or Treat]

He was most likely quite hesitant to change the ICs too much, which would likely be to the fans' disliking.

so instead remove them completely which even more fans would dislike.

Logic.

 

[Furret24]

So instead of just limiting their use, he cut the character altogether with? Wow.

What do you mean by limiting?

 

[FunAtParties]

What do you mean by limiting?

Going by what @ Marigi174 said, the only thing he'd have to change is how many Ice Climbers are allowed on the field at a time. 3 IC max w/o a fourth character, or 2 IC's with 2 other characters sounds like it could be entirely possible. If true, the cut is absolutely, inexcusably ridiculous. There are stage limitations in 8 player smash for similar reasons, blocking how many IC's can fit on the field at a time would serve a similar purpose. I mean, it's not like he cut stages from the Wii U version, because they don't work in 8 player smash did he?

 

[Clock Tower Prison]

Yes lets get IC back and also I want the 3DS stages to come with them! Screw 3DS!!

 

[Zhadgon]

And this is why I was having doubts of having two versions of the game, it always cause problems for one system or the other, until the technology is on par with home console and handheld, one version will always push back the other. Still I want my Icies back, seriously even now I am salty as f... that Sakurai cut them, of my five top requests only two went to the roster and the physics are little wonky for me.

.n_n.

 

[Furret24]

So, you want Sakurai to make it where people can't play as the Ice Climbers if they want to in certain situations, or crowd online servers even more by kicking a person out of a server if the other three people choose to play as the IC's?

Pff, logic.

 

[FunAtParties]

So, you want Sakurai to make it where people can't play as the Ice Climbers if they want to in certain situations, or crowd online servers even more by kicking a person out of a server if the other three people choose to play as the IC's?

Pff, logic.

So instead of being able to play the IC's in all situations but 2, we're not going to play them at all.

Because logic.

 

[SmashChu]

Exactly.

Either way, the 3DS wouldn't get the Ice Climbers. So why does it matter whether Wii U players get them? Does that suddenly make it more "fair" and make them feel better?

It is more unfair to the Wii U players who love Ice Climbers, because we are the ones losing out. The 3DS wouldn't have them either way, because they don't work, so they aren't losing anything.

And it isn't like ICies would be Wii U exclusive just for the hell of it. It would only be because they simply can't work on 3DS, that much is unavoidable, without tweaking the character significantly.

I think that is possible to do that with DLC. Ice Climbers would be extra content, so by not having them on the 3DS, the only things fans are missing is extra content that you have to pay for. And I assume more people will understand why the Ice Climbers wouldn't be available in the 3DS version. I think that the team should try in any way to add them to the 3DS version (which it seems they have given some of the interviews on Sourcegaming.info), but if worse comes to worse, they should be available to Wii U owners.

 

[FunAtParties]

I think that is possible to do that with DLC. Ice Climbers would be extra content, so by not having them on the 3DS, the only things fans are missing is extra content that you have to pay for. And I assume more people will understand why the Ice Climbers wouldn't be available in the 3DS version. I think that the team should try in any way to add them to the 3DS version (which it seems they have given some of the interviews on Sourcegaming.info), but if worse comes to worse, they should be available to Wii U owners.

Yeah but there are detractors to that line of thinking too sadly. I think it makes sense though.

 

[Clock Tower Prison]

And this is why I was having doubts of having two versions of the game, it always cause problems for one system or the other, until the technology is on par with home console and handheld, one version will always push back the other. Still I want my Icies back, seriously even now I am salty as f... that Sakurai cut them, of my five top requests only two went to the roster and the physics are little wonky for me.

.n_n.

Wow really that's what you think? Only one thing comes to mind when I read your post.


















Your banner is F***ING COOL!

 

[Zhadgon]

Wow really that's what you think? Only one thing comes to mind when I read your post.



Your banner is F***ING COOL!

Thanks, is what I want for Smash (more villains) and as added bonus is a reference to one of my favorite series.

.n_n.

 

[Trick or Treat]

I think that is possible to do that with DLC. Ice Climbers would be extra content, so by not having them on the 3DS, the only things fans are missing is extra content that you have to pay for. And I assume more people will understand why the Ice Climbers wouldn't be available in the 3DS version. I think that the team should try in any way to add them to the 3DS version (which it seems they have given some of the interviews on Sourcegaming.info), but if worse comes to worse, they should be available to Wii U owners.

Sounds like a good idea to me. If it's DLC that should be even more understandable.

 

[TheBeardedPunisher]

I can't stop having Smash related dreams. This is a time where I just always have it on my mind. One was where I saw the Ice Climbers on the Wii U version with a unique pose and I even heard Xander Mobus shout "Ice Climbers!" when they were selected. He sounded so upbeat and it sounded so good hearing it. The pose was somewhat of a mix between there Brawl pose and Smash 4 trophy, somewhere along those lines. Vague, I know. I had another dream where I was watching a projection in a random room and suddenly Reggie announces that they're just gonna bring out a bunch of trailers for all the Smash DLC characters. The lineup consisted of like 50+ characters, with 2D drawings to represent them before they get revealed. Squirtle was on that list, along with Ice Climbers wearing green and yellow parkas for some reason, and I think I saw Isaac. After the first Smash symbol appeared indicating the first trailer, everything kinda distorted and I couldn't figure out what was going on or who was being revealed. I think I woke up shortly after. Ice Climbers were like 30 characters under, so I wouldn't have been able to see it. It would've been a terrible format anyway, spoiling every character they're about to show so we have nothing to look forward to besides how they play and how they look with HD 3D graphics.

 

[Furret24]

So instead of being able to play the IC's in all situations but 2, we're not going to play them at all.

Because logic.

Implying that these two situations are incredibly rare and will be negligible.

Seriously though, what would happen if everyone chose to play as them? Would it be fair for one/two people to not be allowed to play as the character they want?

 

[FunAtParties]

Implying that these two situations are incredibly rare and will be negligible.

Seriously though, what would happen if everyone chose to play as them? Would it be fair for one/two people to not be allowed to play as the character they want?

You could match make specifically to allow only two IC's per match online, and yeah limit how many people can play as them in local FFA. Once again, it's either make sacrifices, or don't have the character at all, and let's not forget this is a 3DS only problem. I know people won't like it, but I think it's better to at least be able to play as them 1v1 than not at all.

I hate the word "fair" in this situation. Both sides will obviously think it's unfair for them; one side is missing their character altogether, and the other don't want a character that's gimped which is understandable, but let's not try and play up the sympathy card to a fan-base missing their favorite character.

I was thinking if the IC's do become DLC, that, because they're going to have to be limited, why not make them even cheaper than usual (or even free) for the 3DS version. That way, if you do want them, but are upset about them being limited, you'll at least be getting what you pay for (if you're even paying at all).

 

[Twin Shot]

Wouldn't 8 player smash also pose a problem for the Wii u version?

That's 16 characters on screen at a time and they had problems even getting 8 to function properly (WFT's thumb, for example)

 

[FunAtParties]

Wouldn't 8 player smash also pose a problem for the Wii u version?

That's 16 characters on screen at a time and they had problems even getting 8 to function properly (WFT's thumb, for example)

It most likely would, a lot of people think that 8 player smash may also have had something to do with the IC's getting cut. Once again, restrictions would have to be made, but I don't see it as big of a deal seeing that it's special smash.

 

[Nintendotard]

Wouldn't 8 player smash also pose a problem for the Wii u version?

That's 16 characters on screen at a time and they had problems even getting 8 to function properly (WFT's thumb, for example)

It most likely would, a lot of people think that 8 player smash may also have had something to do with the IC's getting cut. Once again, restrictions would have to be made, but I don't see it as big of a deal seeing that it's special smash.

this topic was never confirmed or even hinted at when related back to the Ice Climbers. Surely if they made it back somehow they'd be fine on this mode

 

[FunAtParties]

this topic was never confirmed or even hinted at when related back to the Ice Climbers. Surely if they made it back somehow they'd be fine on this mode

N]Yeah sure none of this info is confirmed, but as mentioned before, with WFT having to have pieces of it's skeleton removed for 8 player smash, I doubt 8 IC's would work all at once.