Breaking the Ice - Ice Climbers DLC Discussion Thread - Under New Ownership!

[ROBnWatch]

They'd better be in now. I mean, at least they haven't been forgotten.

I've finally got the time to make the ICies ad, and should have it done by Monday. Hope you guys like it!

 

[Marigi174]

I want there to be an exception in the grab mechanics for IC as the idea of passing your opponent between the climbers is cool and thematic. also i want them to be S rank for a third game running :D

 

[Flor@]

I want there to be an exception in the grab mechanics for IC as the idea of passing your opponent between the climbers is cool and thematic. also i want them to be S rank for a third game running :D

lol. I for one don't want ICs to be broken. Especially not in a way that makes it the least accessible to the average "good" player, aka chaingrabs with frame perfection. It'd be cool though if their side b was a command grab and their up b was a condor ride or something. That'd be legit. Also maybe make ice block a slow, auto-desync move. And then have the ability to fully control the other climber while the other climber performs the ice block move.

eh, eh? all these ideas being thrown out there sound good? haha I feel like I've been posting a lot about their moveset lately.

 

[Kenith]

Sorry for giving the Ice Climbers a low chance rating a couple of days ago...

 

[fatman.spam]

How likely is it actually that the ice climbers become dlc?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

How likely is it actually that the ice climbers become dlc?

Sadly, I doubt it.

 

[ROBnWatch]

Sadly, I doubt it.

WHAT? They've got a massive fan base and are one of the highest ranked characters to get back in!!!

 

[fatman.spam]

WHAT? They've got a massive fan base and are one of the highest ranked characters to get back in!!!

I really hoped so i at least voted 20-30 times for them

 

[Marigi174]

IC have an insanely high chance lol. They are definitely not impossible on the 3DS hardware lol and Sakurai himself even confirmed that it was just due to time constraints.

 

[Fatmanonice]

How likely is it actually that the ice climbers become dlc?

Pretty good I'd say. Of the cut Brawl characters, Wolf and the Ice Climbers are the only ones left that really have any demand and aren't royally screwed by red tape. Ice Climbers had hardware issues but with all the patches and debugging that have gone on since the release of both games, I think they'll eventually come to a solution.

 

[BridgesWithTurtles]

Late to the discussion, but are the Ice Climbers actually supposed to be Inuit? I never viewed them as such. I always thought they were supposed to be mountaineers of indecipherable nationality, like professional mountain climbers who brave Everest for the thrill and fame. I mean, I know there's some excuse plot about a village and its vegetables being stolen, but a village could refer to anything, and doesn't have any specific Inuit connotations. It'd be pretty neat if a series reboot had an Inuit-inspired setting/backstory/art style though. I'd totally be all for that and in fact, I've always wanted something like that myself. I also wouldn't mind a blonde Nana if they return to Smash, but I'd rather they just have an alt costume referencing the original box art (like Little Mac with his wireframe alt), since I'm partial to the "twins" look the shared brown hair gives the two.

Anyway, in regards to gameplay, what about making it so that Nana has no real AI? She'd follow Popo around and return to him when they're separated, like Luma, but otherwise, all she does is mimic his inputs when they're together. She'd still be controllable, but only when Popo is in a state where he himself can't be controlled, such as when performing an attack, dodging, in hitstun, etc. That way, desynching would still be a feature of their playstyle, the player would have more direct (albeit less complex) control over Nana, and there'd be less strain on the hardware. Not sure how buffering frames would play into the precision of control, though. I'm not sure if I explained myself too well, but hopefully I got the gist of what I was trying to say out there.

 

[KimKarsmashian]

Late to the discussion, but are the Ice Climbers actually supposed to be Inuit? I never viewed them as such. I always thought they were supposed to be mountaineers of indecipherable nationality, like professional mountain climbers who brave Everest for the thrill and fame. I mean, I know there's some excuse plot about a village and its vegetables being stolen, but a village could refer to anything, and doesn't have any specific Inuit connotations. It'd be pretty neat if a series reboot had an Inuit-inspired setting/backstory/art style though. I'd totally be all for that and in fact, I've always wanted something like that myself. I also wouldn't mind a blonde Nana if they return to Smash, but I'd rather they just have an alt costume referencing the original box art (like Little Mac with his wireframe alt), since I'm partial to the "twins" look the shared brown hair gives the two.

They're never officially stated to be any race or ethnicity, but they appear to be inspired by the Inuit. They wear parkas, which are traditional Inuit wear (You can find Inuit parkas that look a lot like the ones they wear), they appear to live in a perpetually cold, arctic-like region. They don't have blonde hair, unlike a lot of other Nintendo heroes/main characters (Peach, Link, old Zelda, Sheik, Samus, Lucas, Rosalina) nor do they explicitly have light-colored eyes (the aforementioned characters plus Mario, Luigi, Fox, Falco, Marth, Roy, Ike, Pit). Brown hair doesn't prove anything, of course (Mario bros., Pit, Zelda are unspecified race or non-human; Ness has black hair and unspecified eye color but his race is unknown), but since blondness/light-eyes is very rare among Inuit, having those characteristics would basically have taken away from any ******-ness they would've had. Not strong evidence, but the IC don't meet Nintendo's predilection for blonde/light-eyed heroes.

It's equally likely they're some non-specified race and the parkas + environment are just cool flavorings. After all, what race is the light-skinned, blue-eyed, blonde-haired human Peach? I'd guess white, but who knows how race works in the Mushroom Kingdom.

 

[UberPyro64]

IC have an insanely high chance lol. They are definitely not impossible on the 3DS hardware lol and Sakurai himself even confirmed that it was just due to time constraints.

I think you're a little too confident. While there were time constraints, he couldn't overcome the 3DS technical difficulties and might just not be able to unless he reformats them so they never separate (which means they would need a new recovery) but idk if Sakurai would want to do that. This could very well mean no Ice Climbers again till Smash 5. Which is really sad as they're a fantastically unique character.

Honestly, in likelihood, I'd put Snake higher.

 

[ROBnWatch]

I think you're a little too confident. While there were time constraints, he couldn't overcome the 3DS technical difficulties and might just not be able to unless he reformats them so they never separate (which means they would need a new recovery) but idk if Sakurai would want to do that. This could very well mean no Ice Climbers again till Smash 5. Which is really sad as they're a fantastically unique character.

Honestly, in likelihood, I'd put Snake higher.

How could you?!?!?! If the fan demand is high enough, they will work on ICies and any technical difficulties they may be having with them.

 

[Marigi174]

Brown hair doesn't prove anything, of course (Mario bros., Pit, Zelda are unspecified race or non-human

Just a knitpick, but the Mario Bros. are confirmed to be Italian American.

I think you're a little too confident. While there were time constraints, he couldn't overcome the 3DS technical difficulties and might just not be able to unless he reformats them so they never separate (which means they would need a new recovery) but idk if Sakurai would want to do that. This could very well mean no Ice Climbers again till Smash 5. Which is really sad as they're a fantastically unique character.

Honestly, in likelihood, I'd put Snake higher.

TBH, just cause he couldn't get them done in the short time that he had for them (as trust me when I say that, in the pre-launch period of a game, time constraints take priority over willingness to push a system to the peak of its limits) doesn't mean that he was all of a sudden unable to do so. The 3DS is as powerful, if not more powerful than the wii - a system which was able to handle them. This means that they certainly will not need to be reformatted - it is not a case of them possibly needing reformatting, as the system is powerful to the point of it not being an issue. They just have to work it out in a different way to how they did for the gamecube and wii as it is yet another new system, making it harder than simply c/ping the code over.

Also if you are not confident about their return you shouldn't really be posting in this thread as the thread is here for people who are confident certain that they will return. I have said it before and will say it again: if you think that their return is unlikely, you're in the wrong place. I like the way u want them back tho (as shown by sig and the last sentence of the first paragraph), so take what you will from this XD

also meta knight amiibo trailer may be a hint from sakurai

 

[fatman.spam]

gave me some hope :D

 

[TheBeardedPunisher]

gave me some hope :D

This has been indirectly debunked long ago. It only sounds like they're saying "Nana! Popo!" But they're actually not. The crowd is actually saying "村の町長! (Mura no chouchou!)" which translates to "The village's mayor!" It's not character specific to how the crowd chant is triggered. It's just Murabito's regular Japanese crowd chant that doesn't require any fancy exploits. It surprises me that there is no well known source specifically dedicated to this so it's not as well known as the rumor itself. Sakurai probably didn't want another Forbidden Seven incident like with Brawl, so when he wiped their data, he wiped it squeaky clean. (As for Ryu and Roy? We'll have to wait and see what that's really about). No more traces of ICies in the game except for the mounds of salt on the wounds that are their non-playable character trophy, their song, their challenge and challenge picture, and so on. But never lose hope! This support group alone as well as our ICies votes in the Fighter Ballot are major supports to get them back in. Just know that there is no longer reason to believe that they're "impossible" anymore. Sakurai wants to give his all into pleasing his fans and give new opportunities to those who were left out. And who knows? Maybe the Ice Climbers will be another Lucas situation where their inclusion was not influenced by the Fighter Ballot, but just based on fan demand alone? And maybe they're being worked on right now *wink* *wink* *nudge* *nudge*.

 

[fatman.spam]

This has been indirectly debunked long ago. It only sounds like they're saying "Nana! Popo!" But they're actually not. The crowd is actually saying "村の町長! (Mura no chouchou!)" which translates to "The village's mayor!" It's not character specific to how the crowd chant is triggered. It's just Murabito's regular Japanese crowd chant that doesn't require any fancy exploits. It surprises me that there is no well known source specifically dedicated to this so it's not as well known as the rumor itself. Sakurai probably didn't want another Forbidden Seven incident like with Brawl, so when he wiped their data, he wiped it squeaky clean. (As for Ryu and Roy? We'll have to wait and see what that's really about). No more traces of ICies in the game except for the mounds of salt on the wounds that are their non-playable character trophy, their song, their challenge and challenge picture, and so on. But never lose hope! This support group alone as well as our ICies votes in the Fighter Ballot are major supports to get them back in. Just know that there is no longer reason to believe that they're "impossible" anymore. Sakurai wants to give his all into pleasing his fans and give new opportunities to those who were left out. And who knows? Maybe the Ice Climbers will be another Lucas situation where their inclusion was not influenced by the Fighter Ballot, but just based on fan demand alone? And maybe they're being worked on right now *wink* *wink* *nudge* *nudge*.

sry I didint know that

 

[UberPyro64]

Just a knitpick, but the Mario Bros. are confirmed to be Italian American.

TBH, just cause he couldn't get them done in the short time that he had for them (as trust me when I say that, in the pre-launch period of a game, time constraints take priority over willingness to push a system to the peak of its limits) doesn't mean that he was all of a sudden unable to do so. The 3DS is as powerful, if not more powerful than the wii - a system which was able to handle them. This means that they certainly will not need to be reformatted - it is not a case of them possibly needing reformatting, as the system is powerful to the point of it not being an issue. They just have to work it out in a different way to how they did for the gamecube and wii as it is yet another new system, making it harder than simply c/ping the code over.

Also if you are not confident about their return you shouldn't really be posting in this thread as the thread is here for people who are confident certain that they will return. I have said it before and will say it again: if you think that their return is unlikely, you're in the wrong place. I like the way u want them back tho (as shown by sig and the last sentence of the first paragraph), so take what you will from this XD

also meta knight amiibo trailer may be a hint from sakurai

This isn't a thread for those who are confident, this is a thread for those who want Ice Climbers to come back. And I certainly do.

I just don't see it happening

Would LOVE to be proven wrong though. But only time will tell.

 

[ROBnWatch]

This isn't a thread for those who are confident, this is a thread for those who want Ice Climbers to come back. And I certainly do.

I just don't see it happening

Would LOVE to be proven wrong though. But only time will tell.

I think that, with enough time, you'll be proven wrong.

 

[DonkaFjord]

Yeah people can post in here even if they don't think Icies are coming back in Smash 4, especially if they were not bashing the character/their supporters. In all honesty though Snake would probably get purchased more than the Ice Climbers if they were both put up for DLC but I don't know if the legal headaches would be worth it in the end. The icies are at least 1st party so they don't have all the red tape to deal with which is a huge bonus.

 

[fatman.spam]

somebody else that says that they are likely

 

[ROBnWatch]

somebody else that says that they are likely

I trust Alax. Good guy. Love his videos.

But ya, he does have a fair point. Maybe, MAYBE, I'll allow them to never be separated, just this one time, if they're brought back as DLC. If they can get them to work as normal though, well that'd just be fantastic.

 

[FancySmash]

Something I've been thinking about, just that fixing them the way they're supposed to be is possible. I mean, think about it. The Ice Climbers were on the Game Cube. Is the 3DS really weaker than the GCN? I don't think so. They really have a chance in my opinion.

 

[ROBnWatch]

Something I've been thinking about, just that fixing them the way they're supposed to be is possible. I mean, think about it. The Ice Climbers were on the Game Cube. Is the 3DS really weaker than the GCN? I don't think so. They really have a chance in my opinion.

I've been thinking about that as well, and I don't think the 3DS is weaker then the Game Cube. I'm pretty sure it's possible, they just couldn't get to it given the time they had.

 

[TheBeardedPunisher]

I think we should do some digging around trying to figure out the hardware specs of the 3DS and the other consoles to get a better idea of their ability to function as closely to their traditional playstyle as possible. My knowledge isn't really in that field much, but this is for my precious eskimos.

 

[fatman.spam]

does anybody know when the ballot ends?

 

[Marigi174]

This isn't a thread for those who are confident, this is a thread for those who want Ice Climbers to come back. And I certainly do.

I just don't see it happening

Would LOVE to be proven wrong though. But only time will tell.

Sorry. I have always had a thing where people who don't think they're gonna come back posting here saying that they prolly won't always makes me go an a rant. Soz

 

[Marigi174]

edit: sorry. forgot i'd posted already -_- my bad

I think we should do some digging around trying to figure out the hardware specs of the 3DS and the other consoles to get a better idea of their ability to function as closely to their traditional playstyle as possible. My knowledge isn't really in that field much, but this is for my precious eskimos.

It has the same power as the wii. I have stated this in past posts.

 

[Flor@]

I remember on some article where Sakurai talks about why the Ice Climbers were cut, these was this discussion about how the Gamecube and the 3DS have this different sort of processor or RAM that makes them fundamentally different. Like, I remember the word "PAC" or something. The 3DS's processor/memory/whatever it was is meant to save energy and be as efficient as possible, whereas the Gamecube could focus solely on processing power because saving energy was not as big of an issue. And even though the 3DS is definitely more 'advanced' than the GameCube, because of how the processor thing works, it's simply not built the same and comparing the two is pointless.

So yeah, my two guesses at what will end up happening with the ICs:
1) They bring the Ice Climbers back because they realized fan demand/Sakurai felt passionate about them, and they work fine on the 3DS. All that was needed was time, and bam, problems were solved and the ICs get balanced awesomely. No more chaingrabs, awesome tech chase stuff. New character mechanics. Booyah.
2) They don't bring the ICs back because it simply was too much work to be done on a franchise that has yet to show more potential and value overall, aside from Smash alone. But they do add some content to appease those who truly missed the Ice Climbers. Maybe make the ICs an enemy in some game mode, or make them an assist trophy. Make some item referencing the Ice Climbers. Just something to acknowledge the fact that they were two-time veterans that are now cut.

 

[ROBnWatch]

I remember on some article where Sakurai talks about why the Ice Climbers were cut, these was this discussion about how the Gamecube and the 3DS have this different sort of processor or RAM that makes them fundamentally different. Like, I remember the word "PAC" or something. The 3DS's processor/memory/whatever it was is meant to save energy and be as efficient as possible, whereas the Gamecube could focus solely on processing power because saving energy was not as big of an issue. And even though the 3DS is definitely more 'advanced' than the GameCube, because of how the processor thing works, it's simply not built the same and comparing the two is pointless.

So yeah, my two guesses at what will end up happening with the ICs:
1) They bring the Ice Climbers back because they realized fan demand/Sakurai felt passionate about them, and they work fine on the 3DS. All that was needed was time, and bam, problems were solved and the ICs get balanced awesomely. No more chaingrabs, awesome tech chase stuff. New character mechanics. Booyah.
2) They don't bring the ICs back because it simply was too much work to be done on a franchise that has yet to show more potential and value overall, aside from Smash alone. But they do add some content to appease those who truly missed the Ice Climbers. Maybe make the ICs an enemy in some game mode, or make them an assist trophy. Make some item referencing the Ice Climbers. Just something to acknowledge the fact that they were two-time veterans that are now cut.

An assist trophy? REALLY?!?! That would be SO MUCH SALT!!! No other cut veteran has come back as an ASSIST TROPHY!

The other ideas I'm fine with though. Again, maybe the enemy thing is a bit too much salt, but we'll just wait and see.

 

[Marigi174]

But they do add some content to appease those who truly missed the Ice Climbers. Maybe make the ICs an enemy in some game mode, or make them an assist trophy. Make some item referencing the Ice Climbers. Just something to acknowledge the fact that they were two-time veterans that are now cut.

They already have the polar bears in smash run for acknowledgement. I doubt they'd give the Ice Climbers that kind of entrance. I just hope that the Meta Knight trailer was a teaser for the Ice Climbers :]

 

[DonkaFjord]

People also forget the Gamecube doesnt have to render things twice (the 3DS has to when your 3D slider is on) and it didn't have to process non local play. As others have stated, a direct comparison isn't that feasible.

They already have the polar bears in smash run for acknowledgement. I doubt they'd give the Ice Climbers that kind of entrance. I just hope that the Meta Knight trailer was a teaser for the Ice Climbers :]

Sakurai probably had nothing to do with those game trailers which were most likely done by the NOA/E marketing team, so don't hold your breath. All we can really do is wait and see I suppose. I do hope we get DLC Stages or (Less likely) Assist Trophies.

 

[J04KlM]

somebody else that says that they are likely

He's smart, he has the exact same idea as i have on how the Ice Climbers can be executed in Sm4sh with bypassing the 3DS limitations.

The problem with Ice Climbers being on the 3DS is the fact that both Popo and Nana have their own individual AI's, as 4 IC players would be an overload of how many complex AI's the 3DS can render at once. Pretty confident that's the problem, i see people suggesting make them 2D sprites on the 3DS version. But that's not the issue, the 3DS can render multiple character models on screen at once, it's the AI that's the problem. Smash Run proves this, as there are dozens of enemies on screen at once. Because their AI's are simple, player AI's on the other hand require a lot more hardware resources.

Though it is naïve and very optimistic to believe that they just didn't have time to make Ice Climbers work, it's not unreasonable. As Sakurai's wording when he addressed the situation really makes it sound like that was the case.

"I had the team innovate a lot to try and get them working, but we had to give up eventually."

This can in fact mean two things, either they gave up because there wasn't enough time, or they tried their hardest and it just did not work. And i think the latter would've taken up quite a lot of the development schedule of the game. Which is why i'm leaning towards the fact that they just did not have enough time.

I think Sakurai and the team should find a way to get Ice Climbers working on the 3DS version first, before they make any drastic decisions like making them exlusive DLC for Wii U and New 3DS. While that's not the worst idea, it's not the best one either. It would cause a weird split in the userbase of the game, like, how will the Ice Climbers work Online if they can only be played with the New 3DS? So if exclusive DLC were to become a decision, i put my money on Wii U exclusive DLC.

If Exclusive DLC were to become a thing for them, only a vocal minority would complain about it. But let's be real here, this happens with almost everything. Need i remind you, there were a group of people that protested against For Glory mode when it was first announced. So no doubt Exclusive DLC would cause the same uproar, but it'll die down eventually as people just get over it. Besides, i've actually seen more people want Ice Climbers as Wii U/New 3DS exclusive than naysayers.

What i really want to happen though, is that Smash for 3DS, the game as a whole, gets an upgraded re-release version made specifically for the New 3DS. With features and content that wasn't possible on the original 3DS, you can clearly see Smash for 3DS pushes the handheld to it's limit. (Extremely long boot up loading time, Home menu during game takes much longer than other games, Web Browser not available during game and etc.) Yet, it is still extremely far away from the Wii U version in what it offers. A new re-release version for New 3DS would be a great value, as it would make the handheld counterpart of the game much closer to the Wii U version. Upgraded re-releases is in Bandai Namco's blood, too. This would be the best way to get the Ice Climbers back. because the roster parity still consists within this decision.

But, i have been thinking a lot about this. What way is there to implement a working Ice Climbers to the 3DS without drastically changing them from their previous incarnations, such as splitting them into a solo Climber? Like i elaborated on earlier, the problem is more than likely the AI's they have. So i've come up with a concept that they could possibly use to fuse Popo and Nana's AI into one. Duck Hunt Duo is proof you can have two fully interactive character models in one AI.

I made these illustrations for my concept:

Tie Popo and Nana together. This way, they can share the same AI and are always in sync. Sure, this would eliminate the gimmick of Nana desyncing from Popo at times. But their core moveset would still be the very same.

^ How this execution would make them look during gameplay, Nana stands behind Popo instead of next to him like in previous games. To make sure you can see her visually, because they are completely in sync and Nana no longer desyncs during quick movements.

Anyway, that's just what i think, and what i came up with. I may be wrong in the end, but it's a risk i'm willing to take.

 

[ErenJager]

Why don't they just add the Ice Climbers to the Wii U version and forget about the 3DS.
If it can't support it then its clearly not meant for Smash and clearly not supposed to be the definitive title.

 

[TheBeardedPunisher]

somebody else that says that they are likely

I'm so glad that we have Alax on our side. Since he's a fairly well known person within Smash, that helps give ICies some publicity. I think single skeleton ICies would be fitting enough to get them to work without having to worry about complicated AI and keep their duo mechanic intact in some way. Also if nobody's answered your other question yet, the Fighter Ballot ends October 3rd. Plenty of time to raise Ice Climbers awareness.

Why don't they just add the Ice Climbers to the Wii U version and forget about the 3DS.
If it can't support it then its clearly not meant for Smash and clearly not supposed to be the definitive title.

*sigh* As much as I'd like this to happen, it's only if Sakurai has a change of heart and decides to make an exception with them. I mean you can buy DLC characters individually on one version and they can offer them on Wii U only. And with their amiibo, since there's select compatibility, the Ice Climbers amiibo can be compatible with the Wii U version and the 3DS version will say "This amiibo is not compatible with this version of Smash." Since the appeal for the 3DS version has generally died out and got sucked up by the Wii U hype, the outcry would subside soon enough. Personally, when I get Lucas, I'll probably play him on the 3DS for maybe 10 minutes, get his trophies, and move on to the Wii U version. Maybe I'm just thinking selfishly, but when people say it wouldn't be fair to have them be Wii U exclusive, well, the 3DS is why we don't have them on the Wii U, and if they were in, 3DS owners wouldn't have them anyway (hypothetically speaking since we don't know if ICies are impossible).

Hey guys, here's another video showing the importance of ICies being in Smash and how excited people were when they appeared in Melee. You can even hear people say, "Ice Climber boys!" and, "Fifteen years later, Ice Climber's back!"

 

[FancySmash]

I hear someone had an idea to always have the Ice Climbers attached by a tether. That way, they still fight how they usually do, but only use one skeleton.

...It was someone here, wasn't it?

 

[Fatmanonice]

So, I was having a tin foil hat moment earlier today and I thought of the Amiibo coming out in the future. Think about the ones that haven't been announced yet and won't be coming out until at least October. In case you don't know who they are: Falco, Game and Watch, Duck Hunt, and ROB. Isn't that kind of interesting? All the retro characters and Falco. Keep in mind that Sakurai said that the DLC characters would get their own amiibo too. Something tells me that this may hint at Wolf and the Ice Climbers because the timing seems very deliberate. The poll ends in October and Star Fox for the Wii U will probably come out in November. Aside from Palutena and Dark Pit, all the Amiibo waves have been released in groups of at least five, strongly hinting that the last wave will be more than those four. Again, we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[ErenJager]

I don't really care if it's not fair to the 3DS version, I haven't played it since the Wii U version came out.

I really don't understand hindering one version because another can't handle it.

Especially when Smash has traditionally been on the console, it's never been on hand held for a reason, the games too ridley.

 

[Flor@]

I don't really care if it's not fair to the 3DS version, I haven't played it since the Wii U version came out.

I really don't understand hindering one version because another can't handle it.

Especially when Smash has traditionally been on the console, it's never been on hand held for a reason, the games too ridley.

Honestly, pretty much this. I don't know anybody that would really be THAT bothered by one of the most wanted cut vets returning to only the Wii U. I mean, imagine Snake or Roy returning to the Wii U only. Who would really be mad? Yes, it would be unfortunate and a little disappointing, but for those who actually cared for the characters to begin with? Not a big deal. Hmmm--STILL, Sakurai wanted a portable smash. And if your favorite character isn't portable, and ia only usable at home on their expensive little console, that's going to be quite annoying. I think Sakurai has gone back on much of what he's said--but he probably won't go back on his word about identical rosters. It just feels right. Sakurai has his goals in order.

I'm so glad that we have Alax on our side. Since he's a fairly well known person within Smash, that helps give ICies some publicity. I think single skeleton ICies would be fitting enough to get them to work without having to worry about complicated AI and keep their duo mechanic intact in some way. Also if nobody's answered your other question yet, the Fighter Ballot ends October 3rd. Plenty of time to raise Ice Climbers awareness.

*sigh* As much as I'd like this to happen, it's only if Sakurai has a change of heart and decides to make an exception with them. I mean you can buy DLC characters individually on one version and they can offer them on Wii U only. And with their amiibo, since there's select compatibility, the Ice Climbers amiibo can be compatible with the Wii U version and the 3DS version will say "This amiibo is not compatible with this version of Smash." Since the appeal for the 3DS version has generally died out and got sucked up by the Wii U hype, the outcry would subside soon enough. Personally, when I get Lucas, I'll probably play him on the 3DS for maybe 10 minutes, get his trophies, and move on to the Wii U version. Maybe I'm just thinking selfishly, but when people say it wouldn't be fair to have them be Wii U exclusive, well, the 3DS is why we don't have them on the Wii U, and if they were in, 3DS owners wouldn't have them anyway (hypothetically speaking since we don't know if ICies are impossible).

Hey guys, here's another video showing the importance of ICies being in Smash and how excited people were when they appeared in Melee. You can even hear people say, "Ice Climber boys!" and, "Fifteen years later, Ice Climber's back!"

That video, wow. My goodness, those were simpler times. We were happy with such simple things. I guess the graphics were good back then, but I mean, these aren't crazy character picks. Nothing like Bowser Jr. or Charizard. Just simple picks.

Personally, one of the main reasons I even care about the ICs is because of the nostalgic factor to them. Just my childhood in general. Simpler times. Simpler graphica. Bigger names being in smash--respect for the classics and prequels. And 8-bit appreciation. Not to mention how much of a videogame character shipper I was as a little kid. haha.

So, I was having a tin foil hat moment earlier today and I thought of the Amiibo coming out in the future. Think about the ones that haven't been announced yet and won't be coming out until at least October. In case you don't know who they are: Falco, Game and Watch, Duck Hunt, and ROB. Isn't that kind of interesting? All the retro characters and Falco. Keep in mind that Sakurai said that the DLC characters would get their own amiibo too. Something tells me that this may hint at Wolf and the Ice Climbers because the timing seems very deliberate. The poll ends in October and Star Fox for the Wii U will probably come out in November. Aside from Palutena and Dark Pit, all the Amiibo waves have been released in groups of at least five, strongly hinting that the last wave will be more than those four. Again, we'll just have to wait and see.

Very interesting and inspiring evidence, fatmanonice! The more time passes, the more tangible ICs feel. I can almost taste the snow on those HD parkas. lol. But it's still a 50/50 toss-up haha. It's so exciting, though! Will they really be, after all of that doubt, and their year-long cut from Smash Bros after their 10+ year life revival with Melee and Brawl? Only time will tell.