Breaking the Ice - Ice Climbers DLC Discussion Thread - Under New Ownership!

[ROBnWatch]

Well, I meant that some could be just part of the background, not stage hazards.

Also, for music, they should include these 2 songs from Ice Climber (on NES).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-Vqb9FL2wg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ay3yw6Xa24Q

What do ya think?

Weren't both of those in Brawl, just remixed (no mean to crash your party)?

 

[Dynamo68]

Weren't both of those in Brawl, just remixed (no mean to crash your party)?

Well, I'm referring to just the original versions. Other NES themes (such as the Underwater theme from Super Mario Bros.) were in Brawl.

 

[Benze Colon]

i think the ice climbers can be brought bak in the new installment their great charcters to play as.

 

[Dynamo68]

i think the ice climbers can be brought bak in the new installment their great charcters to play as.

Of course. They're too unique to abandon. Also, they're retro characters, so that's another reason they should be back.

 

[ROBnWatch]

Of course. They're too unique to abandon. Also, they're retro characters, so that's another reason they should be back.

Sakurai has even stated near early development that he wants to keep in the older characters to represent Nintendo's history. That and the fact that he also said he was having trouble programming/developing characters SUCH AS the Ice Climbers on the 3DS (Having problems developing them? So...he was already planning on putting them in). Given this, they're practically as much of a shoe-in as G&W, and don't even try to say that he's not coming back...the Pac-Man trailer pretty much confirms him. 2/3 of the Retro Trio is confirmed, and the last member (R.O.B.) is still on the likely side!

 

[Dynamo68]

Sakurai has even stated near early development that he wants to keep in the older characters to represent Nintendo's history. That and the fact that he also said he was having trouble programming/developing characters SUCH AS the Ice Climbers on the 3DS (Having problems developing them? So...he was already planning on putting them in). Given this, they're practically as much of a shoe-in as G&W, and don't even try to say that he's not coming back...the Pac-Man trailer pretty much confirms him. 2/3 of the Retro Trio is confirmed, and the last member (R.O.B.) is still on the likely side!

Your reply to me has given me more confidence in the IC's return. Also, when ya mentioned R.O.B, I used to hate him as a character, but just now, it changed. I like him now. You're a cool guy to have around and talk to, ROBnWatch.

 

[ROBnWatch]

Your reply to me has given me more confidence in the IC's return. Also, when ya mentioned R.O.B, I used to hate him as a character, but just now, it changed. I like him now. You're a cool guy to have around and talk to, ROBnWatch.

Thanks man, appreciate it. I've only been here a bit over a week, and I already feel accepted. The Retro Trio as I like to call them are among my favorite characters in Smash, so I'd hate to have any of them go. ICies: They're just flipping awesome, their friendship and all. Really makes me feel bad for them when I beat them and they cry instead of clap... Mr. G&W: Probably the most unique of the group. Just that go-to when you need variety. R.O.B.: What can I say? He's a robot, and as soon as I unlocked him, I knew he was my main. It's really nice to talk to other people who have the same ideas and likes as you, instead of listening to people who say "No, this character is definitely cut." or "Really? You LIKE that character?". I don't understand why some people just can't accept my opinions on the ICies. I have yet to meet, in real life, someone who plays the ICies as much as I do.

 

[Dynamo68]

Thanks man, appreciate it. I've only been here a bit over a week, and I already feel accepted. The Retro Trio as I like to call them are among my favorite characters in Smash, so I'd hate to have any of them go. ICies: They're just flipping awesome, their friendship and all. Really makes me feel bad for them when I beat them and they cry instead of clap... Mr. G&W: Probably the most unique of the group. Just that go-to when you need variety. R.O.B.: What can I say? He's a robot, and as soon as I unlocked him, I knew he was my main. It's really nice to talk to other people who have the same ideas and likes as you, instead of listening to people who say "No, this character is definitely cut." or "Really? You LIKE that character?". I don't understand why some people just can't accept my opinions on the ICies. I have yet to meet, in real life, someone who plays the ICies as much as I do.

Don't worry, ROBnWatch. I'm sure there are plenty of people in the world that love the Ice Climbers as much as you do. I'm sure ya figured out how much I love them due to my avatar. It just goes to show that I love Eskimos in fiction.

Also, about when they cry when losing a match, it's basically a reference to Ice Climber on NES when you either fail the Bonus Game or get Game Over. Heck, the IC's are not the only ones that don't clap. Another example is Diddy Kong, who just has his cap off, scratching his head in disappointment. I feel really bad for myself for hating on R.O.B in the past. But I'm glad it changed. He's a great character. Coincidentally, he looks like Wall-E from the Disney/Pixar movie of the same name.

The only Retro character that I don't see being playable in a Smash Bros game is Mach Rider. I just can't imagine how he would work. He's probably better off as an Assist Trophy. I don't know, I could be wrong. What do you think? Not saying he should be in SSB4, I just wanna know what you would think of him as a character in Smash.

 

[ROBnWatch]

Don't worry, ROBnWatch. I'm sure there are plenty of people in the world that love the Ice Climbers as much as you do. I'm sure ya figured out how much I love them due to my avatar. It just goes to show that I love Eskimos in fiction.

Also, about when they cry when losing a match, it's basically a reference to Ice Climber on NES when you either fail the Bonus Game or get Game Over. Heck, the IC's are not the only ones that don't clap. Another example is Diddy Kong, who just has his cap off, scratching his head in disappointment. I feel really bad for myself for hating on R.O.B in the past. But I'm glad it changed. He's a great character. Coincidentally, he looks like Wall-E from the Disney/Pixar movie of the same name.

The only Retro character that I don't see being playable in a Smash Bros game is Mach Rider. I just can't imagine how he would work. He's probably better off as an Assist Trophy. I don't know, I could be wrong. What do you think? Not saying he should be in SSB4, I just wanna know what you would think of him as a character in Smash.

I think Mach Rider would be a hilarious character if he got in, but I don't think it's likely. Thanks for the info. on why they cry when they lose. Don't feel bad for hating on R.O.B., I've dealt with plenty other people who don't like him either, but on the R.O.B. thread, all I find are his supporters, which is really nice. Wall-E is also another favorite robot of mine, like R2-D2 and C-3PO, but that's really off topic...

I'd be surprised if the ICies are not confirmed soon, hopefully within the next few weeks, a PoTD and/or Nintendo Direct. What even adds on to their uniqueness is that Nana can die, but you can keep playing. I think Sakurai really looks into and enjoys putting in unique characters such as the ICies, so I'm not going to be surprised once they're confirmed.

 

[Dynamo68]

I think Mach Rider would be a hilarious character if he got in, but I don't think it's likely. Thanks for the info. on why they cry when they lose. Don't feel bad for hating on R.O.B., I've dealt with plenty other people who don't like him either, but on the R.O.B. thread, all I find are his supporters, which is really nice. Wall-E is also another favorite robot of mine, like R2-D2 and C-3PO, but that's really off topic...

I'd be surprised if the ICies are not confirmed soon, hopefully within the next few weeks, a PoTD and/or Nintendo Direct. What even adds on to their uniqueness is that Nana can die, but you can keep playing. I think Sakurai really looks into and enjoys putting in unique characters such as the ICies, so I'm not going to be surprised once they're confirmed.

Well, I'm sure there'll be a Nintendo Direct this September. There was one earlier this month, but it only covered Hyrule Warriors, which was disappointing. I have nothing against HW, I just wish the previous Nintendo Direct had covered more than just that. At least Meta Knight's reveal at Gamescom made up for it, so now we have all 3 Kirby characters back, even though it was pretty obvious. I'm pretty sure they'll start revealing the remaining veterans the following month, because the 3DS version comes out on October 3rd.

Also, when ya mentioned that you'd be surprised if the IC's were not confirmed soon, the same thing can also be said about Wario. Sure, Ashley is appearing as an Assist Trophy, but there's still no sign of Wario himself. As for the IC's themselves, I can't wait to see what they look like in their official artwork. Also, here's another cool (pun intended) idea for a new Ice Climber stage. I found this on Deviantart. It looks awesome. What do ya think?http://sneakylizard.deviantart.com/art/The-Monolith-475156277

 

[BluePikmin11]

I'd like to post my thoughts on Ice Climbers and the reality of their situation, copying and pasting my thoughts from rate their chances on coming back:

I really used to think Ice Climbers were a shoo-in. Sure, they have all the merits to come back, they are Smash veterans, and the Polar Bear is in Smash Run too, there's still a big wall that can hinder their inclusion in the roster, technical difficulties and 3DS limitations. Since I'm not much a technical guy here, I'll just quote an important part made by @Delzethin:

In fact, nothing we've seen so far outright confirms they fixed the problem. Rosalina wouldn't cause the same problems because Luma's AI is simpler than Nana's; it moves based on Rosalina's movement, attacks only when Rosalina does, and all around doesn't have Nana's level of autonomy.

And for all we know, Polar Bears could be there because Sakurai did want the Ice Climber representation and them back in the game, but (hypothetically) in the middle of development while they were being worked on, they could have decided to cut Popo and Nana due to the technical problems. You can't use the Polar Bear as a supporting argument nor the franchise demoted argument when there's still the technical problem they have (Which I think would be more important than all the supporting arguments for Ice Climbers in terms of the development process).

And even though they could hypothetically give the Ice Climbers the solo Popo treatment, it completely gets rid of a unique concept and defeats the purpose as to why they were added in Melee in the first place, it's something I doubt Sakurai would plan to do.

The Ice Climbers overall don't have much of against other than limitations. I now think it can go either way, no matter how much I want them back. Like Delzethin said, the reality is that they are really anything but guarenteed at this point. They'll probably be back eventually in a future patch, but for right now, they won't be in the game first day.

 

[Donalp15]

The Hyrule warriors direct does not prevent another general direct happening this month also. I will only begin to worry about the Ice climbers if Wario and at least one of the Mother characters are confirmed, then it will be suspicious.

 

[Dynamo68]

I'd like to post my thoughts on Ice Climbers and the reality of their situation, copying and pasting my thoughts from rate their chances on coming back:

I really used to think Ice Climbers were a shoo-in. Sure, they have all the merits to come back, they are Smash veterans, and the Polar Bear is in Smash Run too, there's still a big wall that can hinder their inclusion in the roster, technical difficulties and 3DS limitations. Since I'm not much a technical guy here, I'll just quote an important part made by @Delzethin:

And for all we know, Polar Bears could be there because Sakurai did want the Ice Climber representation and them back in the game, but (hypothetically) in the middle of development while they were being worked on, they could have decided to cut Popo and Nana due to the technical problems, they would have probably been planned in a future patch later. You can't use the Polar Bear as a supporting argument nor the franchise demoted argument when there's still the technical problem they have (Which I think would be more important than all the supporting arguments for Ice Climbers in terms of the development process).

And even though they could hypothetically give the Ice Climbers the solo Popo treatment, it completely gets rid of a unique concept and defeats the purpose as to why they were added in Melee in the first place, it's something I doubt Sakurai would plan to do.

The Ice Climbers overall don't have much of against other than limitations. I now think it can go either way, no matter how much I want them back. Like Delzethin said, the reality is that they are really anything but guarenteed at this point.

OMG, this again. I'm getting sick of hearing this BS.

The Hyrule warriors direct does not prevent another general direct happening this month also. I will only begin to worry about the Ice climbers if Wario and at least one of the Mother characters are confirmed, then it will be suspicious.

Well in Brawl, they were the second to last veterans confirmed. The last being Sheik.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I'm not trying to be a troll or anything and I don't want them to be gone in the main roster either like I said, I'm just letting you guys know of the reality that Ice Climbers could get cut because of 3DS technical limitations, try to at least read carefully of where I'm at.

 

[Dynamo68]

I'm not trying to be a troll or anything and I don't want them to be gone in the main roster either like I said, I'm just letting you guys know of the reality that Ice Climbers could get cut because of 3DS technical limitations, try to at least read carefully of where I'm at.

Well, if they were removed, then what would be the point of adding the Polar Bear as a Smash Run enemy in the first place? Also, Sakurai loves the IC's. They've also been around since Melee, so they're definitely safe.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Well, if they were removed, then what would be the point of adding the Polar Bear as a Smash Run enemy in the first place? Also, Sakurai loves the IC's. They've also been around since Melee, so they're definitely safe.

Like I said:

Polar Bears could be there because Sakurai did intentionally want the Ice Climber representation and them back in the game, but (hypothetically) in the middle of development while they were being worked on, they could have decided to cut Popo and Nana due to the technical problems. They could be eventually be back in the game in a future patch.

I doubt any Ice Climber content would be axed completely as I don't really see the point of it when you're representing almost everything of Nintendo's history and Sakurai seems to be representing as much franchises as he can.

And again, you can't use arguments supporting them to prove the Ice Climbers (specifically) are back, as technical issues are a much bigger and different problem to deal with.

 

[Dynamo68]

Like I said:

I doubt any Ice Climber content would be axed completely as I don't really see the point of it when you're representing almost everything of Nintendo's history and Sakurai seems to be representing as much franchises as he can.

And again, you can't use arguments supporting them to prove the Ice Climbers (specifically) are back, as technical issues are a much bigger and different problem to deal with.

Well, Sakurai still hasn't said whether or not they've been cut. Something tells me that he's gonna announce their return soon.

 

[ROBnWatch]

OK, BluePikmin, I can see where you are coming from. The technical problems are something we need to address, and though it has not been confirmed they have fixed these problems, Sakurai has stated that well over a year ago, and before Rosalina and Luma. I would think they have been able to fix these problems by now, and/or are on the verge of fixing them. The Smash team was able to make things happen in previous iterations that nobody thought could be done. I see where you're coming from, but I think that they've addressed the concern by now, and the ICies are probably in.

By the way, that stage idea looks pretty good. Maybe something like the ICies stage from Melee where they climb up something like that, or different platforms you need to jump on to get to the top, like that one Pokémon stage in the 3DS version (name escapes me at the moment)?

 

[PlayfulMushroom]

I'll eat my hand if Sakurai doesn't include ice climbers.

 

[ROBnWatch]

I'll eat my hand if Sakurai doesn't include ice climbers.

Well good news for your hand, the ICies will most likely be back.

 

[Dynamo68]

OK, BluePikmin, I can see where you are coming from. The technical problems are something we need to address, and though it has not been confirmed they have fixed these problems, Sakurai has stated that well over a year ago, and before Rosalina and Luma. I would think they have been able to fix these problems by now, and/or are on the verge of fixing them. The Smash team was able to make things happen in previous iterations that nobody thought could be done. I see where you're coming from, but I think that they've addressed the concern by now, and the ICies are probably in.

By the way, that stage idea looks pretty good. Maybe something like the ICies stage from Melee where they climb up something like that, or different platforms you need to jump on to get to the top, like that one Pokémon stage in the 3DS version (name escapes me at the moment)?

Are you referring to the stage I currently thought up of (with the link)?

 

[ROBnWatch]

Are you referring to the stage I currently thought up of (with the link)?

Ya, that's the one.

 

[Dynamo68]

Ya, that's the one.

Ok then.

Also, why are you so sure that the IC's will be back? Because the more I think about the technical issues, the more scared I get about whether or not they'll be back. They've been one of my mains since Melee (along with Mr. Game & Watch), and I'd be in depression if they were gone.

 

[ROBnWatch]

But that's just it. I know being a veteran doesn't guarantee you a spot, but they've been here since Melee. This makes them 2-time veterans. I'm pretty sure that every character who made it from Melee to Brawl will come back again this time. I'd be depressed too, if they weren't in, but right now, I don't think the reasons are stacked against them. If there are more Brawl veterans showing up before they do (ex. Wario, Wolf, Lucas, R.O.B.) then I would start to get worried. But right now, I don't think there's reason to hesitate. Heck, they might even be revealed this week for all we know.

I know the technical difficulties could be a problem, but like I said earlier, that statement was made over a year ago. I'm sure they've made valiant efforts to fix this problem, and probably have already solved it by now. If the ICies are not revealed by the end of September, then we can worry. Currently though, I think they are safe.

 

[Dynamo68]

But that's just it. I know being a veteran doesn't guarantee you a spot, but they've been here since Melee. This makes them 2-time veterans. I'm pretty sure that every character who made it from Melee to Brawl will come back again this time. I'd be depressed too, if they weren't in, but right now, I don't think the reasons are stacked against them. If there are more Brawl veterans showing up before they do (ex. Wario, Wolf, Lucas, R.O.B.) then I would start to get worried. But right now, I don't think there's reason to hesitate. Heck, they might even be revealed this week for all we know.

I know the technical difficulties could be a problem, but like I said earlier, that statement was made over a year ago. I'm sure they've made valiant efforts to fix this problem, and probably have already solved it by now. If the ICies are not revealed by the end of September, then we can worry. Currently though, I think they are safe.

How can you tell there could be another veteran reveal this week? Also, the only characters that are likely cut so far are Snake, Squirtle and Ivysaur. And wasn't the whole technical thing mentioned months before Rosalina's reveal? Cause' if that's the case, it could be another sign (in addition to the Polar Bear) that the IC's will be back.

 

[T-Hell]

I'm not trying to be a troll or anything and I don't want them to be gone in the main roster either like I said, I'm just letting you guys know of the reality that Ice Climbers could get cut because of 3DS technical limitations, try to at least read carefully of where I'm at.

Clearly those technical issues got solved because of Olimar and Rosalina.

 

[Dynamo68]

Clearly those technical issues got solved because of Olimar and Rosalina.

^^THIS!!

 

[BluePikmin11]

But that's just it. I know being a veteran doesn't guarantee you a spot, but they've been here since Melee. This makes them 2-time veterans. I'm pretty sure that every character who made it from Melee to Brawl will come back again this time. I'd be depressed too, if they weren't in, but right now, I don't think the reasons are stacked against them. If there are more Brawl veterans showing up before they do (ex. Wario, Wolf, Lucas, R.O.B.) then I would start to get worried. But right now, I don't think there's reason to hesitate. Heck, they might even be revealed this week for all we know.

I know the technical difficulties could be a problem, but like I said earlier, that statement was made over a year ago. I'm sure they've made valiant efforts to fix this problem, and probably have already solved it by now. If the ICies are not revealed by the end of September, then we can worry. Currently though, I think they are safe.

Or they could've planned to put them in later as free DLC characters in the middle of development, that can actually happen.

Clearly those technical issues got solved because of Olimar and Rosalina.

And again, Nana's AI isn't the same as Rosalina's or Lumas, they aren't a fully-fledged character unlike her, Nana has a much more complex AI than you think.

 

[T-Hell]

Or they could've planned to put them in later as free DLC characters in the middle of development, that can actually happen.


And again, Nana's AI isn't the same as Rosalina's or Lumas, they aren't a fully-fledged character unlike her, Nana has a much more complex AI than you think.

To be honest I see Luma's AI more complex as she actually goes for herself and battles, Nana just does her best to follow you and dual your moves. But that's how I see it, I actually don't know that mechanism in depth.

 

[BluePikmin11]

To be honest I see Luma's AI more complex as she actually goes for herself and battles, Nana just does her best to follow you and dual your moves. But that's how I see it, I actually don't know that mechanism in depth.

Nana also has the ability to dodge, in addition to holding items, and grabbing opponents too, which is still more complex than Luma.

 

[T-Hell]

Nana also has the ability to dodge, in addition to holding items, and grabbing opponents too, which is still more complex than Luma.

Well, Pikmins are confirmed to take ítems for themselves, and you can have 3 at once, so I think that bodes well for IC.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Well, Pikmins are confirmed to take ítems for themselves, and you can have 3 at once, so I think that bodes well for IC.

In addition to making animations for characters too, Home-Run Bat, Beam Sword, Super Scope, and any other wielding weapon, it's more complex than you think.

 

[Dracandros]

As someone who does programming for a living and has a decent grasp of AI systems, I really have a hard time believing that the 3DS could not handle the AI additional strain of 4 Nanas.

Now, it is possible that the difference is just enough to cause problems with how they are making this engine and the RAM abilities of the 3DS are very weak, but it is still far powerful than the GameCube and still more powerful than the Wii.

Unless the Ice Climbers become DLC of some sort, then their exclusion is quite a stretch - not to be mean or anything as I say this in the nicest way.


EDIT: I didn't get into processors or whatnot, and I'm not a graphic designer so I can only speculate that part. I don't know what will happen. I just wish the IC reveal would just happen - the Ridley/Mewtwo wait is killing me so I understand the feeling.

 

[Dynamo68]

Honestly, I think the IC's are gonna be revealed by either the end of this month or before September 13 (that's when the 3DS version comes out in Japan).

 

[ROBnWatch]

How can you tell there could be another veteran reveal this week? Also, the only characters that are likely cut so far are Snake, Squirtle and Ivysaur. And wasn't the whole technical thing mentioned months before Rosalina's reveal? Cause' if that's the case, it could be another sign (in addition to the Polar Bear) that the IC's will be back.

I don't know there will be another reveal, I'm just saying. Most of the reveals have been unexpected, which we should come to expect from Sakurai. I don't see the ICies as becoming DLC. I'm still on the fence about whether DLC will even happen. I think the ICies are about due for their reveal. The technical problems shouldn't even be much of an argument anymore. Sakurai said he was having a hard time developing characters like the ICies on the 3DS version, meaning he was ALREADY WORKING ON THEM. It's not like Sakurai to just give up on something. We also have the Polar Bear in Smash Run, which pretty much is a HUGE hint at them. Finally, why the heck are we bringing in other multiple characters such as Olimar and Rosalina? Really? They are not NEARLY the same concept as the ICies. Rosalina has a completely separate moveset than Luma. Popo and Nana share the SAME, EXACT MOVESET! If anything, it would be EASIER to program a character like this over characters like Rosalina.

OK...that took a while...time to put it in simpler terms.

The Ice Climbers are coming back. End of story.

 

[Dynamo68]

I don't know there will be another reveal, I'm just saying. Most of the reveals have been unexpected, which we should come to expect from Sakurai. I don't see the ICies as becoming DLC. I'm still on the fence about whether DLC will even happen. I think the ICies are about due for their reveal. The technical problems shouldn't even be much of an argument anymore. Sakurai said he was having a hard time developing characters like the ICies on the 3DS version, meaning he was ALREADY WORKING ON THEM. It's not like Sakurai to just give up on something. We also have the Polar Bear in Smash Run, which pretty much is a HUGE hint at them. Finally, why the heck are we bringing in other multiple characters such as Olimar and Rosalina? Really? They are not NEARLY the same concept as the ICies. Rosalina has a completely separate moveset than Luma. Popo and Nana share the SAME, EXACT MOVESET! If anything, it would be EASIER to program a character like this over characters like Rosalina.

OK...that took a while...time to put it in simpler terms.

The Ice Climbers are coming back. End of story.

Yes. I agree with all this. This isn't anything like programming a centaur into a fighting game (Motaro from the Mortal Kombat series). I can understand that, but why do people have to make such a big deal about the technical thing with the IC's compared to Olimar and Rosalina? It just blows my mind.

 

[ROBnWatch]

Yes. I agree with all this. This isn't anything like programming a centaur into a fighting game (Motaro from the Mortal Kombat series). I can understand that, but why do people have to make such a big deal about the technical thing with the IC's compared to Olimar and Rosalina? It just blows my mind.

Beats me.

 

[Dynamo68]

Beats me.

Yeah, and do ya think programming a non-bipedal character (like Motaro from Mortal Kombat) is considered more difficult than the Ice Climbers on the 3DS version of Smash Bros? Then again, I'm mainly referring to fighting games in general, not just Smash Bros.

 

[ROBnWatch]

Yeah, and do ya think programming a non-bipedal character (like Motaro from Mortal Kombat) is considered more difficult than the Ice Climbers on the 3DS version of Smash Bros? Then again, I'm mainly referring to fighting games in general, not just Smash Bros.

I would guess that depends on the size and characteristics of the character.

 

[Dynamo68]

I would guess that depends on the size and characteristics of the character.

Yeah. But a character like Motaro is more trouble than he's worth. Then again, he comes (komes?) from a realistic, and ultraviolent franchise.

I think we better get back on topic before it gets outta hand. Sorry for getting off topic.