Brawl+ Official Codeset Gold Discussion

[NAMQ_DrunkeNFeasT]

Or you could look at Waft in PSA, find out why he kills himself, and just change that aspect of it (after all, Sonic doesn't kill himself with HIS up B and they're basically the same <_<).

go to pirate ship with sonic on the tornado, when you are getting floaty do jump, Up B and Uair

sonics dies :O

but a matter of fact, he only dies in one stage lolz, so no matter on fixing this

 

[Mattnumbers]

Kind of like a DJC, but with farts.

Just going to leave that there.........

Anyways, I thought I had something to say, but thinking about it I would just be repeating what everyone else has already said. I'll post this anyways due to the above quote.

 

[GHNeko]

....if I see that signature one more time... :|

 

[Shadic]

You are going to give up on the whole thing just because your amazing character has a weakness?

Amazing character? Still nobody wants to rep him, and we all know everybody mostly focuses on the top-tier characters. (Hello 5.0 Ness)

He's a mid-tier character, and that's all he ever will be. I'd love to be quoted in ten months proving my short-sightedness, but I'm pretty **** sure that's not gonna happen.

And as matt4300 said, it was supposed to be a utility change and a trade-off, not a straight-up buff. Brawl is the only game where his Fair had a weak first hit.

asldkjflaskdjfwhyamitalkingabouthis

 

[ValTroX]

I just can't believe that the Fair change got turned down. Reconsideration please

 

[Death Arcana]

why would you change the knockback on link's bombs?
he can hardly bomb recover now

 

[Mattnumbers]

....if I see that signature one more time... :|

what is this i should even

there isnt even a reason for ban stage with ic

 

[DotheDiddyMonkeyDance]

Well I can sorta see their point since that stage would highly favor IC due to them not being able to slide on the Ice. Where as other characters slide and sliding to the ledge causes them to stop for a certian duration. I understand that its supposed to be a CP but overall I really don't see this as being a fair match up. this is just an opinion of mine.

Um just a question I noticed on the website that it says not to use the updater from Ghneko. Just wondering if its been fixed yet or whats going on with it?

 

[Deleted member]

And as matt4300 said, it was supposed to be a utility change and a trade-off, not a straight-up buff. Brawl is the only game where his Fair had a weak first hit.

At least in 6 months Link will likely receive character balances along with all the others in the roster. I mean, they could tweak his get up attack, ledge jump, ledge roll to better suit his game. Patience for now...

Well I can sorta see their point since that stage would highly favor IC due to them not being able to slide on the Ice. Where as other characters slide and sliding to the ledge causes them to stop for a certian duration. I understand that its supposed to be a CP but overall I really don't see this as being a fair match up. this is just an opinion of mine.

Without ice on Summit+, nothing can redeem it as a counterpick. It is not unique enough to influence character matchups otherwise. The ice can also force characters into bad spots, into the air, or make shielding safe sometimes. Techniques like sliding tilts, jabs, specials, and smashes can be used here too. Honestly, whether or not the ice makes a good CP is likely unknown and needs less bias and more testing. Also this belongs in legality discussion... =x

 

[matt4300]

So dramatic.

You are going to give up on the whole thing just because your amazing character has a weakness? In order to ledge hop aerials with bowser I have to be almost frame perfect since his second jump is about as bad as link's. Everyone can jump off the ledge or attack or roll or just get up. Use those for mix ups, and then throw in the occasional ledge hopped neutral air. Link has three projectiles and an excellent combo game with enough kill moves for 3 characters. Just because the link+ thread wants something doesn't mean it should be that way. Can't you see that link mains might be a tiny bit biased. That is what we count on the back room for. Unbiased opinions.

Heh, looks more dramatic that it is.

By "give up" I mean that there is no point in fighting anymore because the game is finished for the next six months, and for better or worse links stuck with crappy fair.

LOL link is far from amazing. I get what your saying with bowsers, but its not like thats anything new for me... Bowsers my second. I like haveing tight frame inputs.

Its not that the link + thread wants something. It's that the link mains want something. I highly dought anyone in the workshop backroom has put in nearly as much time with link+ as I or other link mains have, but I could be wrong. Theres a difference between unbiased, and just not haveing enough experience with link in smash in general to make a decision like that. I know you wouldnt want people who hardly play bowser makeing game changing decisions on him. Luckily there are some good bowsers in the WBR, or atleast cape that I know of.

@GOG: yeh, I'm sure a trade off would have been easy to go with. But being such a last minute decision the link+ players had no input on it what so ever. Last post on fair we got was:

The next patch should be up quite soon actually (tonight or tomorrow hopefully). Had to redo the SSS and DJCH fixes as well as put in Viet's camera fix.

Anyway, the fair change is pretty simple:

1st hit:
12%
35 angle
KBG: 110
BKB: 20

2nd hit:

8%
25 angle
KBG: 110
BKB: 20

much more useful knockback values, 2nd hit has an excellent angle for gimping, first has a better killing angle. Damage on the weak hit increased by 2.

Diden't expect a revote at the last minute.

 

[GHNeko]

Summit+ w/ ice is sooo legit. I will vouch for this until I die.

 

[RiteToRmnSilent]

It's just a matter of the degree of how much it helps versus how much it hurts with the boundary change for it to be considered a buff or a nerf. But this amount is highly debatable for the most part.
In general, though, it is that anyone that's light, has a good recovery, and a good gimping game is hurt the most with closer boundaries. *coughmetaknightcough* («-but I don't mind that at all )

Actually my Metaknight seems to be more efficient in a lot of ways with new the new boundaries. Uair strings almost consistantly kill for me with the lower cielings and upb kills off the edge are much more potent then before. Sure he can die earlier but so can everyone else and his gimping game is still top notch and really I'm killing with dair off the side boundaries pretty consistanty. I'm sure I'm not the only Metaknight player who has seen good things from the changes. Also my Luigi is even more **** with nair kills off the top like never before.

 

[iLink]

I've already figured out a few neat things with the ice, you guys need to play on it more.

 

[goodoldganon]

Any character that required combos or strings to set up their kill moves was buffed the boundary changes. These characters had virtually no way to kill if they didn't combo into it. These include people like Captain Falcon and Fox.

The other type of character buffed most by this are the heavy weights and Zelda. These character typically have very high base knockback moves and can tank hits. Ganondorf Snake and Bowser for example.

Lucario and Puff were hit hardest by the sides being moved in and they were probably the best characters before the sides moved in.

 

[DotheDiddyMonkeyDance]

IMHO I think Luigi needs something else something I dunno feels like is holding him back. I mean somehow right as of now he feels slower than mario. I personally would like to see a buff to something to Luigi in the next 6 months if at all possible. I don't remember what version he got a debuff in... but I think he actually needs something to make him viable or on equal terms to mario. Again this is just my opinion.

 

[Perfect Chaos]

Actually my Metaknight seems to be more efficient in a lot of ways with new the new boundaries. Uair strings almost consistantly kill for me with the lower cielings and upb kills off the edge are much more potent then before. Sure he can die earlier but so can everyone else and his gimping game is still top notch and really I'm killing with dair off the side boundaries pretty consistanty. I'm sure I'm not the only Metaknight player who has seen good things from the changes. Also my Luigi is even more **** with nair kills off the top like never before.

Ugh... I'm not saying that characters with those attributes are purely hurt with the boundary changes; I'm just saying that the the ratio between hurting them to helping is higher than for those characters. You are just arguing that you can kill earlier with characters (which is an obvious given), and not the against my actual point, which is the degree of the pros and cons. Completely ignoring the opposite view when presenting a debate doesn't cause for a good argument.
And as for his gimping game; it wasn't affected at all, really, since no matter the boundaries, if you can get your opponent out to a certain point (even if it's not past the death boundaries, yet), it's still a gimp. So the boundary change doesn't matter for that instance, and only does for straight out kills, which Meta Knight has few of those, thus the boundary changes hurting him in that case.
I'm looking at the big picture when it comes to how characters perform, and not just at specific instances where I'm simply killing quicker because of it. If you play against a competent, high-level player using a character that can kill fast, the boundary change will be totally in the opponent's favor.

Also, what goodoldganon said as well...

 

[RiteToRmnSilent]

Ugh... I'm not saying that characters with those attributes are purely hurt with the boundary changes; I'm just saying that the the ratio between hurting them to helping is higher than for those characters. You are just arguing that you can kill earlier with characters (which is an obvious given), and not the against my actual point, which is the degree of the pros and cons. Completely ignoring the opposite view when presenting a debate doesn't cause for a good argument.
And as for his gimping game; it wasn't affected at all, really, since no matter the boundaries, if you can get your opponent out to a certain point (even if it's not past the death boundaries, yet), it's still a gimp. So the boundary change doesn't matter for that instance, and only does for straight out kills, which Meta Knight has few of those, thus the boundary changes hurting him in that case.
I'm looking at the big picture when it comes to how characters perform, and not just at specific instances where I'm simply killing quicker because of it. If you play against a competent, high-level player using a character that can kill fast, the boundary change will be totally in the opponent's favor.

Also, what goodoldganon said as well...

Uh...clearly you missed MY point...I got your point. I wasn't only saying that he can kill earlier(duh...why would I waste my time pointing out something that doesn't need to be said?) I was pointing out that he seems to have a lot more pros than cons to the changes, which is the opposite of what was being said. Uair almost never killed off the top before, I can only remember like 3 times where it worked, now it works all the time. That's a new killing option he never really had, along with his upb and many other options. Those sound like pros to me...with the only con being he can get killed very early by something like a Fox usmash. The ratio between the pros and cons for Metaknight seem to be highly in his favor, which was all I was pointing out since it contradicted what was said earlier about the boundary changes. So Metaknight seems to be an exeption.

 

[matt4300]

IMHO I think Luigi needs something else something I dunno feels like is holding him back. I mean somehow right as of now he feels slower than mario. I personally would like to see a buff to something to Luigi in the next 6 months if at all possible. I don't remember what version he got a debuff in... but I think he actually needs something to make him viable or on equal terms to mario. Again this is just my opinion.

0_o I don't think my lower jaw will ever be the same after reading this. I... ...

 

[Perfect Chaos]

Stuff...

Dying quicker, which is more pronounced in Meta Knight's case due to the low weight, means that his amazing recovery is hit pretty hard. So it's more significant that it seems on the surface, IMO.
But whatever...I've previously stated that these things are pretty subjective to opinions and highly debatable, anyway. I'm too tired to debate any further, and I'm not motivated enough to want to continue, so I'll leave it at that. You're free to post after this to get the last word in if you so choose, as it won't get a rebuttal (unless you attack me, personally, or something).

 

[DotheDiddyMonkeyDance]

Um I have a question about the stages with the new boundaries. My friend and I were just playing Lucas and noticed that when your on the right side or left side of the stage boundary and use your PKthunder to move it around to hit you to return it tends to get absorbed by something which makes Lucas go into special fall. Not sure if this is a bug but figured I would report it. Not sure if its my .GCT but I'll retry it tomorrow and see if the same thing happens.

 

[StrikerX22]

I was able to fix it, but it came with one little cost. In the Random Stage Switch menu, the big image for "SSE Jungle" still has the image for 75m (changing it to SSE Jungle's image makes it freeze, for some reason; but if anyone can change it to that without it freezing, then be my guest). The SSS is 100% just as desired, though, which is really the only thing that truly matters when it comes to stage menus.

So without further ado, the common5, for those that want it now (unless you want to wait to see if anyone else can fix the freeze with that image added): CLICK HERE!!

So the stage select screen has been a bit confusing. This is what I've found:

STAGE SELECT:
-There are 3 new slots, used by SSE: Jungle, Online Waiting Room, and Temple 2 ("Temple"), all of which are on the first screen.

-On the 2nd screen, Flat Zone 2 still has Online's pics showing.

-Temple on the 1st screen shows old Temple pics (not that it's a huge difference).

-A 2nd Temple (old temple pics) is shown on the 2nd screen, which sends you to SSE: Jungle as well.

-The 2nd "Temple SSE Jungle" has Temple music. The independent SSE Jungle on the 1st screen has Battlefield music.

-A 2nd SSE: Jungle picture is shown in the 2nd screen, and it is actually 75 m. Yes, you play on 75 m.

RANDOM STAGE SWITCH:
-Flat Zone 2 shows Online Waiting Room's pic for big and small. (Actual stage is FZ2.)

-75 m does indeed show Online Waiting Room for the small pic, 75 m for large. (Actual stage is 75 m.)

-New independent slots are not shown in this screen.

So, I'm guessing the new independent slots are not in the random select...? Hopefully this'll help ppl sort things out for now.

 

[Perfect Chaos]

I've been asked about this by someone else in a different thread, so I'll just link to my response in that post: CLICK HERE!

EDIT: as for why the Temple on the "Other Stages" is sending you to SSE: Jungle, that's probably because you haven't deleted the old STGDXSHRINE.pac file, yet.

Oh, and the random stage swtich turns on the random for the most tournament viable version of said stage, whichever case it is.

 

[ValTroX]

I see,, thanks for info

 

[StrikerX22]

Ah, that sucks that we can't have more icons. So turning on 75 m in random defaults to turning on SSE J then, as a "most tournament viable version" of the stage? and WWR for FZ2. Gotcha.

If you mean STGDXSHRINE.pac, then yes I have it... I never knew we were supposed to delete some file, as I've done clean "installs" of the new files onto the SD card, so I won't have any old files, then added only character textures from there. So is STGDXSHRINE.pac the file you want deleted or not? Thanks for the help.

 

[Sagen du Smash]

Brawl+ is great shiz. That being said, Sonic's HA (Neutral B) is still GARBAGE. It doesn't need to be a kill move but for the love of humanity kill the horrible ATROCIOUS lagg, it needs like 5x more ISIA because what is in now doesn't work 98% of the time, especially when the move is used in an upward direction. Please PLEASE someone REMOVE THE LAG AND MAKE HA SUCK LESS. Thank you...

 

[GHNeko]

Why would you

1. ask for a buff after we said no buffs for 6 months
2. buff a good character

 

[Revven]

Um I have a question about the stages with the new boundaries. My friend and I were just playing Lucas and noticed that when your on the right side or left side of the stage boundary and use your PKthunder to move it around to hit you to return it tends to get absorbed by something which makes Lucas go into special fall. Not sure if this is a bug but figured I would report it. Not sure if its my .GCT but I'll retry it tomorrow and see if the same thing happens.

This was in vBrawl, it has nothing to do with any of the codes.

 

[CountKaiser]

It's the PKT going outside of the edge, thus terminating itself.

 

[ValTroX]

why do a PKT near the stage boundary? I mean, shouldn't you do it close enough to the stage so you can actually live after using it?

 

[kaizo13]

not the point

 

[Shadic]

I've not tried out the new set. Is the new Temple+ the one AMK and I did? Picture reference:

 

[FrozenHobo]

yes. yours is the one that got in.

 

[DotheDiddyMonkeyDance]

O.o ok thanks for that answer I didn't think it was due to the codes I'm probably just not used to the stage boundaries with some characters yet.

I have another question though not sure if anyone else experiencing the problem but when I hit random to select a stage it doesn't go by my random stage choices I have set. Like the stages I have set are FD, BattleField, Smashville, Yoshi's Island and Wario Ware. Yet however when I hit random it chooses sometimes Game and Watches Stage and 75M (stages which I have turned off). Just wondering to why its doing that.

 

[Perfect Chaos]

Ah, that sucks that we can't have more icons. So turning on 75 m in random defaults to turning on WWR then, as a "most tournament viable version" of the stage? and SSE J for FZ2. Gotcha.

If you mean STGDXSHRINE.pac, then yes I have it... I never knew we were supposed to delete some file, as I've done clean "installs" of the new files onto the SD card, so I won't have any old files, then added only character textures from there. So is STGDXSHRINE.pac the file you want deleted or not? Thanks for the help.

First off, FZ2 is paired with WWR, and 75m is paired with SSE: Jungle (how I remember it is that WWR is a very FLAT level and SSE: Jungle is DK-esk, thus replacing the DK stage of 75m ); but yes, turning said stage on random would make SSE: Jungle and WWR be the ones to be randomly selected (same goes for Temple+ over regular Temple).

And yes, I meant the STGDXSHRINE.pac (edited my post above to avoid future confusion). Once that is deleted, the Temple icon on the "Other Stages" page will lead you to the original Temple, while the one on the main page will give you Temple+.

@DotheDiddyMonkeyDance: Great....this new code has random select issues with extra stages as well, it seems... :-/ (For some reason, I haven't encountered this issue though, so it might be an issue on your end.)

 

[Shadic]

yes. yours is the one that got in.

\o/

Well, that's certainly something that I'm happy about with this set. I hope they fixed the boundaries though, they were pretty big. (VBrawl standards)

 

[proteininja]

Can anyone post a list of what new stages were added please? I don't feel like starting a match on every one to find out.

 

[FrozenHobo]

Can anyone post a list of what new stages were added please? I don't feel like starting a match on every one to find out.

its being compiled as i type this.

 

[Krautrock]

Since acquiring the new version, I've encountered a bug where the game crashes if I idle for more than a couple seconds on the stage selection screen. It's possible the problem is on my end since I have really no clue what any of the files do and I might have messed something up while adjusting the folders and whatnot on my sd card. Everything else seems to work fine though.

I use gecko without homebrew.

Does this have something to do with the common5.pac? Sorry if I'm way off the mark - as I said, I have no clue what any of the files actually do.

One other question - is Spear Pillar supposed to be reverted to the vbrawl version (i.e. with the pokemon)? I know it's not a viable stage either way, but I didn't mind playing it casually from time to time in the absence of those obnoxious beasts. Either way, no big deal.

And since this is my first post, I might as well congratulate the B+ team on a job well done. I'm really digging the gold version. Now I just wish people would stop calling for buffs all the time. **** is obnoxious.

 

[StrikerX22]

First off, FZ2 is paired with WWR, and 75m is paired with SSE: Jungle (how I remember it is that WWR is a very FLAT level and SSE: Jungle is DK-esk, thus replacing the DK stage of 75m ); but yes, turning said stage on random would make SSE: Jungle and WWR be the ones to be randomly selected (same goes for Temple+ over regular Temple).

And yes, I meant the STGDXSHRINE.pac (edited my post above to avoid future confusion). Once that is deleted, the Temple icon on the "Other Stages" page will lead you to the original Temple, while the one on the main page will give you Temple+.

Ah yeah, sorry about the mix up. Edited. I may have been confused from remembering WWR being displayed on 75 m's random switch small pic (as well as being both for FZ2). Sad thing is I was already using that "flat" logic for SSE J (strikes me that way with long platforms) without thinking about WWR apparently. Obviously WWR is flatter =P.

I'll delete the file. But I'm wondering, was I supposed to notice being told this somewhere? Somehow I missed it.

Can anyone post a list of what new stages were added please? I don't feel like starting a match on every one to find out.

I may be wrong, but I think the only stage added without a correct picture is Temple 2, which is pretty close anyway.

-Rumble Falls 2 (1st page, replaces RF1.)
-New Pork City 2 (2nd page, replaces NPC1.)
-Temple 2 (Added sot to 1st page. Shares old icon with [and uses random switch of] T1.)
-SSE: Jungle (Added slot to 1st page. Shares new icon with [and uses random switch of] 75 m. It has platforms)
-Online Training Room [WWR] (Added slot to 1st page. Shares new icon with [and uses random switch of] Flat Zone 2. It's "FLAT.")

I'd love to find out there are more, but I think that's it for now. Temple 2 and SSE: Jungle both use Battlefield music, which I hope changes to something a tiny bit less heard.

 

[FrozenHobo]

there are some more changes than those, but you covered the main ones (sort of...). we'll get a list to you with the final changelist.

edit: Krautrock :

i'm glad that you're enjoying the set. as for your problem, i'm not entirely sure as i use homebrew w/ gecko and have not had any crashes (related to the set). i'll let someone else who has experience with that version help you out.

as for spear pillar, i believe it was un-frozen as we don't have a fix yet. however, i'm not 100% on that.