Brawl might not have that many characters

[Dogenzaka]

I posted this in the prediction thread.

Usually, Sakurai reveals all the characters by the release of a Smash game

this means, he has until January 22nd to reveal all the characters

....we have 26 confirmed so far (The 23 + Sheik, Ganondorf, and Luigi)

he only has 11 weeks to reveal all the characters

he usually reveals characters once every two weeks

that leaves us with about 5-7 characters left.....leaving us with about 29-31 characters...which is rather pathetic

29 characters is the amount you can get if you take the icon sizes shown in the demo, and multiply them throughout the screen.


If the sides of the screen DO fill up, we have 7 characters left. If they don't, well, we only have 1 character left. However, assuming Sheik, Ganondorf, and Luigi are confirmed, chances are, the sides of the screen with the "?"s are going to fill up. Leaving us with 4 characters left. My assumptions are that they are Megaman, Krystal, Game & Watch, and someone from the Metroid series.

Widescreen TVs

Fullscreen TVs

You may be thinking that the icons could shrink to make room. That is a possibility. But keep in mind that never happened with Melee.

I can see about 25 stage spots there. We have 16 confirmed now. That seems like a reasonable amount for about 30 characters.

PS: I made these mockups.

 

[Mike87]

he only has 11 weeks to reveal all the characters

He is not going to reveal all the characters.

 

[Dogenzaka]

He is not going to reveal all the characters.

Really? He did it with Melee. One character a week.
And he certainly has no hesitation revealing secret characters, considering Sonic and Snake are secret characters, and most likely, so is Dedede.

 

[Xanderous]

No, he didn't with melee. You're wrong. He waited till after the release.

 

[Deleted member]

No, he revealed melee's secret chars after it was released. Dont worry, I'm sure Sakurai wont let us down.

 

[Dogenzaka]

No, he didn't with melee. You're wrong. He waited till after the release.

Even then, what's keeping him from doing it now? He's revealing all the secret characters, and has daily updates, unlike in Melee, where he released a character a week. I just hope....>_> it's not 30 characters.

 

[Card]

I just hope....>_> it's not 30 characters.

What the heck is wrong with 30 characters anyways?

I'd rather have 30 extremely well designed and balanced characters, than 50 unbalanced and crudely designed characters (aka: Marvel vs Capcom 2, where only 6-7 characters are tournament viable)

 

[Dogenzaka]

What the heck is wrong with 30 characters anyways?

Just 4 characters more than Melee is disappointing to me, that's why :/

Well, judging from this more accurate screenshot of someone playing on a widescreen TV....there's more roster slots,

except it cuts off the icon by about a quarter, on the sides, and they inaccurately match up from the side rows to the bottom fourth top row (that space between the "?"s on the side and Sonic and "Random")

 

[Deleted member]

Just 4 characters more than Melee is disappointing to me, that's why :/

Well, judging from this more accurate screenshot of someone playing on a widescreen TV....there's more roster slots,

except it cuts off the icon by about a quarter, on the sides, and they inaccurately match up from the side rows to the bottom fourth top row (that space between the "?"s on the side and Sonic and "Random")

You are being unreasonable. The demo is not the real thing! The iconds may be smaller, or they may be organized differently. And yes, if there was only 30 characters that would be kinda sad, but dont worry, Sakurai has been working on this for a long time, im sure there will be more.

 

[Dogenzaka]

You are being unreasonable. The demo is not the real thing! The iconds may be smaller, or they may be organized differently.

I'm not being unreasonable. I'm presenting a possibility.
And for your information, the Melee character icons didn't shrink at all from the demo to the final version. So there's the risk those sizes are final.

I sure hope you guys are right but I think the evidence points otherwise....

 

[Xanderous]

No, he revealed melee's secret chars after it was released. Dont worry, I'm sure Sakurai wont let us down.

Yo, fellas, can you change your avatar? It's freaking me out.

 

[Card]

Just 4 characters more than Melee is disappointing to me, that's why :/

First of all, cutting out the quickly rushed clones (Dr. Mario, Pichu, Young Link, Roy, heck even Falco) Melee's got a roster of 20-21 characters. Out of that roster, we have an extremely balanced tier list in comparison to other fighting games. Smash has a very wide threshold for character potential. We have people maining DK/Link and doing extremely well in high-end tournaments despite being mid-tier characters. Mid-tier characters just do not have the potential to accomplish that in other fighters. Just that shows how well each character is designed

Well, judging from this more accurate screenshot of someone playing on a widescreen TV....there's more roster slots,

Secondly, I think you are looking way too deep into this.

That is a character select screen made for the Demo.
The character portraits can be resized, the Character selection indicators can be shrunk the larger the roster becomes, Level Select icons can also change size.


This game is rumored to be the first dual-layered Wii game, not to mention its the first Wii game to be delayed for perfection purposes. I think the amount of content that'll be in this game is more than you can possibly imagine.

 

[Pima]

How come you can complain about "just having 9 more characters than melee" when you have all these awesome updates? Stage Builder + Online= Instant win

Besides, as someone said already it's better to have 30 good characters than 50 rushed ones, which in the end people will complain about because their favorite character is crap and can't be used at tournaments and will all result in a massive hatred towards Sakurai

Seriously people. you should stop thinking about roster size (Altough I know Sakurai will not dissappoint us) and start seeing other aspects of the game like online HRContest or Subspace Emissary

 

[Inferno_blaze]

that leaves us with about 5-7 characters left.....leaving us with about 29-31 characters...which is rather pathetic

No, not really, that's a large roster.

I dont' see how brawl will lack content. 30+ characters, lots of changing stages, adjustable settings for brawls, A stage builder, an in depth single player game (SE and we also have classic + probably 1 other), My music feature with a wide score, trophies and CDs to collect, large numbers of items, assist trophies, event matches, and challenges (sandbag + wire frame stuff), online brawls, online sandbag (and probably wire frame stuff), co op/competitive story, co op/competitive Home run (and maybe more) and more stuff to be announced. Actually, on second though, you're right; that definitely is lacking content.

 

[Heavyarms2050]

THIS IS NOT MELEE
Just because melee did it doesnt mean brawl has to follow. For all we know, in the map selection screen, all you have to do is move the cursor all the way to the right to reveal more maps

 

[Bli33ard]

That might just be the demo - the full version of the game may have a different layout.

 

[burrito]

Really? He did it with Melee. One character a week.
And he certainly has no hesitation revealing secret characters, considering Sonic and Snake are secret characters, and most likely, so is Dedede.

It was never confirmed that Sonic and Snake are secret characters.

 

[Lupo Aro]

It was never confirmed that Sonic and Snake are secret characters.

Sakurai himself confirmed all third-party characters will be unlockables.

 

[psyniac_123]

....we have 26 confirmed so far (The 23 + Sheik, Ganondorf, and Luigi)

If you're counting Ganondorf and Sheik as in, then why not Mr G&W and Animal Crosser? I know somebody let slip that they're redesigning Ganon and Sheik characters for Brawl; but that's not official (unless I missed something). Somebody who makes the AC franchise described the AC character in an interview (might have been fake; but so might've the Sheik news) and we know that Game & Watch will back because of the icon theory.

If you're going to count in one rumour, why not them all?

Fullscreen TVs

Also; have you ever thought this won't be the final character-selection for the official release? They have time to change it. In fact; I personally think that this was JUST for E for All.

 

[Dogenzaka]

It was never confirmed that Sonic and Snake are secret characters.

Ohohoho yes it was. Sakurai said all third-party characters are secret characters, plus you don't see them on the boxart.

Also; have you ever thought this won't be the final character-selection for the official release? They have time to change it. In fact; I personally think that this was JUST for E for All.

Perhaps. It's just worrying because they did no change to the layout of Melee's demo.
The icons do look a little unnecessarily big though, so you may be right.

If you're counting Ganondorf and Sheik as in, then why not Mr G&W and Animal Crosser?

Because Sheik and Ganondorf were confirmed by Aonuma >_>

but that's not official (unless I missed something).

Well depends. Do you count GamePro's official interview with Aonuma as official?

Somebody who makes the AC franchise described the AC character in an interview (might have been fake; but so might've the Sheik news)

But that was confirmed as fake lol.

and we know that Game & Watch will back because of the icon theory.

I thought that theory was destroyed because of the Nintendo DS icon lol.

 

[Card]

If you're counting Ganondorf and Sheik as in, then why not Mr G&W and Animal Crosser? I know somebody let slip that they're redesigning Ganon and Sheik characters for Brawl; but that's not official (unless I missed something). Somebody who makes the AC franchise described the AC character in an interview (might have been fake; but so might've the Sheik news) and we know that Game & Watch will back because of the icon theory.

Here's why;


Ganondorf & Shiek: It wasn't "Somebody" who let this slip... This was said by Eiji Aonuma himself (The mastermind behind many of the Zelda games) in an interview with GameInformer (EXTREMELY reliable source). This is not some random theory or run of the mill rumor. You can confirm that Shiek and Ganondorf will be playable characters in Brawl just based off of this. (did you even suspect otherwise anyways?)
Source: http://www.gameinformer.com/News/Story/200708/N07.0802.1741.54921.htm

Animal Crossing Representative: The article which describe the AC Rep in Brawl was found on The Bell Tree, a fan-made website about Animal Crossing. After some deductive research, it was discovered that the entire article was indeed a hoax (read: Not Real). Therefore, You cannot confirm an AC playable character in the game.

Game & Watch: You said it yourself... "because of the icon theory.".... theory... theory.... theory.... theory. It's nothing but a theory which smashers on the Smash Boards have somehow "deducted" based on some educated guesses. For all we know, sure Game & Watch's icon may return, but he will only be a Stage representation, and not a Playable Character. Absolutely no way to confirm Game & Watch as a playable character.



That is why.

 

[Card]

Perhaps. It's just worrying because they did no change to the layout of Melee's demo.
The icons do look a little unnecessarily big though, so you may be right.

Actually....

The layout changed quite drastically from the E3 Demo to the Retail. Sure the icons may have remained the same, but the fact of the matter is that it's still possible for the to change anything they want from Now until the time of Release.

 

[Heavyarms2050]

i was looking for that screen.

 

[NotGiratina]

Ehh... The DS logo is icon 21 if you look in the URL,So the theory is still viable

 

[Dogenzaka]

Card - The layout doesn't matter. The arrangements of the icons don't matter. It's the size that counts (lol). They icons are the same size, so you're still only able to fit the same amount of icons as the final version. It didn't change.

Heavyarms2050 - I was too. lol.

 

[Ferro De Lupe]

It's nothing but a theory which smashers on the Smash Boards have somehow "deducted" based on some educated guesses. For all we know, sure Game & Watch's icon may return, but he will only be a Stage representation, and not a Playable Character. Absolutely no way to confirm Game & Watch as a playable character.

That is why.

You have seen the Icon Theory in full detail, have you not?

If not, then go read it yourself on it and then come back with your opinion.

If yes, then you realize the truth behind the icon placement. It should be obvious, by common sense, that G&W will return. The only two things that appear with icons are stages and characters, so that rules out items and an AT appearance. And it would not make any sense to bring back a G&W-themed level without the flat man himself.

True, it's not an actual confirmation Sakurai... But he's as good as confirmed.


As for the Icon Theory and an AC character...

Well... The Icon theory has three parts; the part claiming that every icon means a playable character from that franchise, the part about Mr. G&W, and the part about the icon Japanese names being in alphabetical order means only certain franchises are viable.

One part* of the Icon Theory was hit by a bus that we call "PictoChat" and is currently on life support with the AC represenative.

UNLESS a DS character is confirmed with the DS logo, THAT one part* of the Icon Theory is dead.

* = Every icon means a playable character.


If we get a DS character using the DS symbol, it's still a 100% viable theory.

 

[Card]

Card - The layout doesn't matter. The arrangements of the icons don't matter. It's the size that counts (lol). They icons are the same size, so you're still only able to fit the same amount of icons as the final version. It didn't change.

The layout changed quite drastically from the E3 Demo to the Retail. Sure the icons may have remained the same, but the fact of the matter is that it's still possible for them to change anything they want from Now until the time of Release.


I'm just going to repost what I just said, since you seemed to have missed my point. I'll even bold it to make it easier for you to see. I will even put in italics, the phrase that you just repeated but in different wording.

 

[Wight]

please close this thread. this is unreasonable speculation.

 

[Dogenzaka]

but the fact of the matter is that it's still possible for them to change anything they want from Now until the time of Release.

Ah I see your logic now.

But I still think that if the size of the icons were to change they would have finalized the size before the demo hit o.O who knows.

please close this thread. this is unreasonable speculation.

Hold on a second.

It's not unreasonable, I even presented photoshopped mocks. It's speculation, and I don't deserve to have my thread closed simply because you don't like it. This is General Brawl discussion, and I'm discussing Brawl's content. This thread is breaking no rules, and therefore has no reason to be closed. Take your concern elsewhere.

 

[DraginHikari]

I don't really get how this is a 'lack of content' so to speak...

 

[Card]

You have seen the Icon Theory in full detail, have you not?

If not, then go read it yourself on it and then come back with your opinion.

Yes of course I know the entire theory, I have been following it since there was only 10 or so icon numbers revealed. I wouldn't have posted a comment about it if I hadn't done my research beforehand.

Big blob of text regurgitating everything I already know about those Icon Theories

Which brings us to your final line,

If we get a DS character using the DS symbol, it's still a 100% viable theory.

Now then...
Since we do NOT have a DS character using the DS symbol, it is NOT a 100% viable theory. (and for that matter, we do NOT have an AC character using the AC symbol either)

a theory which is NOT 100% is enough to make it so that Game & Watch is NOT 100% Confirmed.

So far the only argument you have that Game & Watch is a playable character is, and I quote, "it would not make any sense to bring back a G&W-themed level without the flat man himself."... I think we all know how solid that argument is. /end sarcasm.

Game & Watch icon may be Icon 13, it also may not. For all we know, it probably is Icon 13.
Game & Watch icon may also just be a Stage Representation, with no Playable Character attached. Exactly as how The Pictochat icon and 'potentially' the Animal Crossing icon are depicted.

So unless you can somehow find definitive proof to me, that Game & Watch is guaranteed to be a playable character, it's nothing but a Theory.

 

[vesperview]

Why can't people understand that that is a DEMO, seriously ever heard about resizing?

 

[Froilen]

do you know Why Sakurai CAN`T Re-zise the icons in the screen?

well... the seme thing why cant give us 5 new comers in a row in the seme week, and having in the game more than 30 characters...

ABSOLUTE NO REASON!!!

PD: I like the icon theory

 

[SSJ4Kazuki]

The character icons were shrunk in my opinion, for ease of demo, and so it wouldn't look like
there was too much empty space. It would look silly to have a big screen with enough space for
40 characters and have 14 playable ones hunched into the center of the screen.
Be reasonable.

And additionally, people were getting accustomed to a new control methods, so it's only reasonable
to make the icons bigger for ease of access.

I am willing to bet $20 via paypal that the game will have over 30 characters.
This is how certain I am.

Every 3 days minimum, somebody comes out with a thread spreading pessimism.
What makes yours different from the rest of the trolls?

Sakurai is not revealing all the characters on the site before launch. It would spoil things
for a lot of people, really not helping sales. Melee didn't do this either. They released unlockables
after the game's release.

How come as soon as someone pointed out that Melee's cast was not revealed before the
game's release, you immediately changed your theory to "but Brawl might" just to continue
with this meaningless and mindless pessimism? How do you sleep at night? Is the world going
to break out into nuclear war this evening? When someone confirms it isn't, are you still going
to say "Well it might"? Dude, things like this just aren't worth worrying about at all, because
it's BEYOND YOUR CONTROL. If you don't want to buy the game because you think 30 characters
is "pathetic", DON'T. Nobody's stopping you. This game has all the features in the world, and like
all 6 of my childhood heroes appearing in the same game without a single lawyer in sight.
Isn't that enough? How about stagebuilder, enough now? Online multiplater anyone?
Co-operative story mode? Or even a story mode at all? What about recording matches.
Oh, and you can send them to friends as well? How on EARTH can you say this game even BEGINS
to lack content? I'd buy the ****ing game if they released it with ONLY THE THINGS REVEALED ON
THE DOJO AT THE MOMENT!

God **** it, now you've made me mad.

I know you're not going to read that post, especially since it was a massive rant, but look
here Dogenzaka Hill, your kind is not wanted here, nor is useless pessimism.

This post is directed at all useless pessimists here on this board.

 

[Drclaw411]

You Fail.

There are likley going to be 35-42 characters. They can change it anyway they want. And they probably will.

60% chance there will be 35-42 characters.
40% chance there will be only 30 characters or less.

 

[SSJ4Kazuki]

60% chance there will be 35-42 characters.
40% chance there will be only 30 characters or less.

This logic fails.

0% Chance of 31-34 characters? Are you making the game, dude?

 

[Youkai Master]

Thread fails.

1. Sakurai doesn't/won't reveal everything by the game's release. It makes no sense, it completely destroys the surprise factor of finding out unannounced stuff by yourself.

2. Melee's icons from its demo were the same size as the final version, but that was 6 years ago on an old console. It wouldn't be hard at all to resize them now, especially when people like you think they wouldn't and they could only fit a couple more characters in there and then BAM! surprise! they get smaller and fit many more characters and you = OH SHI-. Also the demo's interface could have been designed/altered especially for it, again not hard at all in this age.

3. Expecting 50 characters and 60 stages or something like that is ridiculous and stupid. Also Melee had 4 clones who most likely are not going to return, so if Brawl has only 30 characters it would actually be 8 more than Melee, not 4 (assuming everyone is unique). Add to that the fact that they're focusing more on balance and I would be pretty happy with 30 characters.

4. Brawl will no lack any sort of content, it will be the ultimate Nintendo fanservice game.

5. There is no five.

 

[blayde_axel]

Hmm... 25 stages, huh? You know, Melee's 29 stages says you're wrong.

 

[TheMastermind]

He has revealed more than 1 character per week since the website started!
Look at the facts.

Its not once every 2 weeks its more than once per week.
And BTW it would be impossible for him to reveal everything enless he did a quadruple update from now til the date.

and btw there will be 40-50 characters. I have proof.

 

[Zek]

This is completely ridiculous. You have no reason to think he'll announce every possible character by launch, which he did not do for Melee. And you're arguing about the icons in a demo release, obviously those icons are larger to fill the space since the roster was restricted so much. Just look at them, they're huge compared to Melee's icons. Same with stages. I can't believe you would even think your argument makes sense.