Brawl+ General Guide to Basic Skill and Knowledge (work in progress)

[Revven]

Brawl+ General Guide to Basic Skill and Knowledge​

Legit chaingrabs on Falcon
Sonic - Uthrow. Looks like it works up to any percent, didn't test very high but, looked quite like it would last awhile. Tried DI'ing in multiple directions + jumping, could not escape it. (lasts to 50%)
Lucario - Uthrow, you can try to DI to escape it, but it kinda depends on Lucario's percent and stock and your percent.
Pikachu - Dthrow
Pit - Dthrow (seems to be ongoing beyond 100%, tried DI'ing in multiple directions + jumping, no good).
Wario - Dthrow (42%)
Luigi - Dthrow (seems to be ongoing beyond 100%, tried DI'ing in multiple directions + jumping, no good).
Mario - Uthrow (seems to be ongoing for awhile, not sure if it goes past the 50% threshold, but it certainly seemed to work like Sonic's did. Could not DI enough or far away enough to jump away or tech).

CGs that do not work on CF and how to DI them
Peach - Uthrow (DI away, jump)
Bowser Uthrow (DI away, jump)
Diddy Kong - Uthrow (DI away, jump)
DDD - Uthrow (DI away, jump, works only up to 18% legitimately)
Zelda - Dthrow (DI away, jump)
Sheik - Dthrow (DI up and in)
Ivysaur - Uthrow (DI away, jump)
Marth - Uthrow (DI in, jump)
Ike - Dthrow (DI in, jump)
ROB - Dthrow (DI away, jump)
Snake - Uthrow (DI in or up and in, jump)

MK's Shuttle Loop cannot shield lock anyone. When you SL (the first hit) on the shield, there is a lot of time between there to roll, let go of shield, or jump OOS before the Glair comes. Basically, SL doesn't deal enough stun to the shield to make you get hit by the incoming Glair. Glair you can't really do anything about as soon as MK lands, you can drop your shield, however it is unwise to as MK will likely Dsmash OR grab you after SL so keep the shield up or jump OoS if you can. Furthermore, while it may seem like it is possible to achieve this with MK, it actually is not viable. Your opponent may just be shielding for too long and thinks he cannot escape when he really can (as soon as MK is in the air can the opponent roll or let go of shield).

There is, in other words, plenty of time to escape before he glides down and Glairs you.

Edit info: Will add introduction **** once this whole OP is compiled with general information and data necessary to play Brawl+ competitively and as well as lessen complaints from n00bs. Basically, this thread will not be ready to put in the Smash Workshop until it is deemed complete by the OP or TC (Falco400).

Let's get to work on this thread, PEOPLE! Help me with this.

 

[goodoldganon]

I always thought we should have a common problems topic. Something about Fox's drill combos or Snake's F-tilt 'lock'. I'm fully behind this.

 

[Revven]

I like how, given the recent thread in the Smash Workshop by Silven, with some horribly wrong info on CGs on CF, this isn't getting as much attention as it should. This should actually start now, instead of making it a DI thread, something we can use for testing and research INSTEAD and putting the info in the OP for something comprehensible and saying that "This doesn't work in Brawl+ so don't complain about it if it happens."

DI'ing stuff should obviously be included but, seriously guys, I'm surprised nobody is getting in on this.

Edit: I think I'm going to take a look at how to DI **** with Falcon... it's getting a bit annoying to see people saying that CF can be CG'd by everyone. I'll try and get some data soon in Training mode in 1/4 speed so I have enough time to DI the move lulz.

Help is appreciated btw.

 

[leafgreen386]

If you have two controllers, you can trick the game into thinking one is pressing a certain direction by holding it in the opposite direction you want to DI in when you plug in the controller (preferably after you enter training mode). It's how I usually test DI stuff.

And I totally agree. We need to get on this.

 

[Revven]

Legit chaingrabs on Falcon
Sonic - Uthrow. Looks like it works up to any percent, didn't test very high but, looked quite like it would last awhile. Tried DI'ing in multiple directions + jumping, could not escape it.
Lucario - Uthrow, you can try to DI to escape it, but it kinda depends on Lucario's percent and stock and your percent.
Pikachu - Dthrow
Pit - Dthrow (seems to be ongoing beyond 100%, tried DI'ing in multiple directions + jumping, no good).
Wario - Dthrow (42%)
Luigi - Dthrow (seems to be ongoing beyond 100%, tried DI'ing in multiple directions + jumping, no good).
Mario - Uthrow (seems to be ongoing for awhile, not sure if it goes past the 50% threshold, but it certainly seemed to work like Sonic's did. Could not DI enough or far away enough to jump away or tech).

CGs that do not work on CF and how to DI them
Peach - Uthrow (DI away, jump)
Bowser Uthrow (DI away, jump)
Diddy Kong - Uthrow (DI away, jump)
DDD - Uthrow (DI away, jump, works only up to 18% legitimately)
Zelda - Dthrow (DI away, jump)
Sheik - Dthrow (DI up and in)
Ivysaur - Uthrow (DI away, jump)
Marth - Uthrow (DI in, jump)
Ike - Dthrow (DI in, jump)
ROB - Dthrow (DI away, jump)
Snake - Uthrow (DI in or up and in, jump)

As you can see, NYC exaggerated SO BAD with CGs on CF. However, I DO believe some of the CGs that he does have on him should somehow be alleviated, either by tweaking his gravity or by getting a throw modifier and upping the growth/base on the throws that work on CF.

Edit: Added to OP, will change things around for it if someone finds something wrong with my info on some CGs. Also, this thread will need to be stickied in the SW when it is done or deemed complete.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Sonic-the chaingrab does go on for a while (stops working at like 50%), but in reallity thats only like 5 grabs (Sonic's upthrow does ridiculous damage lol). After that you can get out by DIing away from him and jumping. Anyway, this is indeed one of those meatier chaingrabs, because even though the chaingrab itself doesn't last a long time (so it's not "boring") it does quite a bit of damage and has a wide percentage range. I wouldn't say it needs to be changed though, it's not like the opponent is in any fear from dying after this anyway

Lucario's chaingrab is so situational. I don't really think it needs to be messed with but meh, I don't play Lucario.

Yeah, the Pit chaingrab is kinda ridiculous (not to mention you can end it in a sweetspotted bair) I personally think that no chaingrab should go on past 50% on any character (those who DO get chaingrabbed to 50% are in no fear of dying directly from it...since they are fast fallers). So yeah, this one definitely needs tweaking somehow, yet I have a feeling that it's gonna be hard to maintain Pit's throw combos at high percents (I suppose it would be a decent tradeoff for that spiking d-tilt though. That thing is awesome...but also a little much on an already balanced character)

 

[Revven]

Thanks for the information on Sonic DS, didn't really want to have to test him to see how high it goes (didn't have a whole lot of time left when I tested). I added it to the OP.

Something definitely needs to be done about Pit and Luigi, both of them are stupid and need to be taken care of. Pikachu's Dthrow is obvious.

We can't go Gold until this is fixed, I want the throw modifier now, seriously. Anyway, I'll get proper percents for Mario later today. Furthermore, I probably won't be able to test a whole lot more DI today but, I will at least get the Mario CG % end.

 

[kupo15]

what is wrong with pits dthrow? I see absolutely nothing wrong with it

 

[Revven]

what is wrong with pits dthrow? I see absolutely nothing wrong with it

It CGs Falcon up to 100% and beyond, how is that not a problem...?

Added MK Shuttle Loop "lock" that Yes! was talking about (disproving it is what I mean).

 

[kupo15]

Why don't we wait for char spec hitstun to fix the bad side effects that char spec dgrav created? No sense in fixing something that isn't the core problem that we face first?

 

[Revven]

Why don't we wait for char spec hitstun to fix the bad side effects that char spec dgrav created? No sense in fixing something that isn't the core problem that we face first?

That's what I was going to do.

 

[kupo15]

ok then. .......