Event - EVO 2013 (Breast Cancer Research Drive) Brawl at Evo 2013

[MajorMoses]

Are you really that upset that I don't want to donate to Melee that you're going to call me a troll and a hypocrite for not giving a game I don't care too much about with a community that's rather hostile to ours $800 just because?

Okay, your insults worked. Here, take my money, you guilted me out of almost a thousand dollars, because that totally works.

Not upset at all actually. I was more talking about how you're complaining about people *****ing instead of donating when you're supposedly sitting on $1000 that would probably get people to start donating. Of course, you'd then get a REAL swarm of Melee fans complaining about how you're just splitting the community but you look like you could take it. Well, about as well as you're taking it now when you THINK it's just me.

Spoiler

 

[Biz_R_0]

@LandryThere are multiple reasons why I think it should be Brawl and not Melee, and I have stated those reasons. Your assumption that this is just my game preference is wrong, despite how heavily you insist that I'm being selfish.

Do you want me to repeat these reasons for you?

@MajorMoses I'm not just throwing away that money. That's an amount that you only give to something you're really invested in (not Melee) and would be a good investment (currently not Brawl). If Brawl gets within $1,000 of the top game, I'd happily throw it all in.

My complaints were in reference to the fact that not a cent has been pledged to Brawl since this thread, and now I'm being insulted for not giving large sums of money to something I don't think is a very good idea.

 

[MajorMoses]

@MajorMoses I'm not just throwing away that money. That's an amount that you only give to something you're really invested in (not Melee) and would be a good investment (currently not Brawl). If Brawl gets within $1,000 of the top game, I'd happily throw it all in.

My complaints were in reference to the fact that not a cent has been pledged to Brawl since this thread, and now I'm being insulted for not giving large sums of money to something I don't think is a very good idea.

Meh, I said you're just sitting on the $1000. I didn't say throw it all at once. Oh well. Good luck to you, and may other people be more receptive to the idea of at least ONE Smash game making it to EVO.

 

[Biz_R_0]

I am absolutely fine with Melee winning. I was just saying that I'm sticking to my guns and riding the Brawl train as far as it goes.

By the way, I was referring to Landry about the insult part, I know you mean well.

 

[Landry]

Whatever, I'm done with this thread.

I'm just glad that IN GENERAL Smashers stick up for each other and what's right. If it was the right time to push Brawl (like when Brawl got on the MLG circuit) I'm sure the community would support it. Now it's time for us to support Melee. So far most everyone has done a great job of that.

 

[Biz_R_0]

Why are you so adamant about ignoring my reasoning just to call me selfish? I gave reasons for why I think it should be Brawl instead of Melee, but apparently I'm being selfish for not giving all of my money to you.

Forgive me for not understanding, but I'm baffled and somewhat sickened that being willing to donate almost $1,000 to charity can be considered bad because I disagree about what game should be in a tournament.

 

[Osennecho]

I am absolutely fine with Melee winning. I was just saying that I'm sticking to my guns and riding the Brawl train as far as it goes.

By the way, I was referring to Landry about the insult part, I know you mean well.

Biz, I'm a brawl fan at heart too, but smash is smash and I can't even take your promise of 800$ seriously when you wont shell out like $50 to help keep melee in the lead when its lead has in one day been cut from ~$600 to $50. And you are wrong, if one smash happens and goes well there is a much better chance for more in the future/smash in general to get a guaranteed spot. If some random **** like skullgirls beats out smash because people like you who actually have the money aren't donating anything than F it, the building in recent hype for Smash is dead. And i seriously mean dead. It will stop gaining hype overall and fall back down and lose its chance for more and more sponsors as well as venues in the future.

 

[MajorMoses]

Coming back to this thread to say that Osennecho's avatar is amazing and I want one.

 

[Biz_R_0]

No, if Melee gets in, there's gonna be a large chance that EVO will adopt the "Melee master race" mentality and nothing but Melee will get in in the future. There's also a good chance that that won't happen, but I think that has a much larger chance of happening than what you said. I'm not being selfish, I just see things differently than you.

 

[Osennecho]

Coming back to this thread to say that Osennecho's avatar is amazing and I want one.

I love my Avatar as well XD. Found it while cleaning my computer a while back and it's been my Avatar ever since. Pikachu just stares at you with those eyes. And than I'm reminded of pikachu crying over ketchup. Which was just godlike years back when that happened.

 

[Landry]

I know I said I was done BUT -

I just don't understand how you can possibly think some of things you do. Like, there's seriously no way to support a lot of your claims. "Melee master race"... wtf? Evo is so unlikely to think something like that. If anything, Evo has a presentist bias. They always go with current iterations of games even if the community agrees that older is better *cough* SF4 *cough*. You're arguments are pigheaded and poorly constructed.

 

[Biz_R_0]

I'd listed to you if you weren't just calling me stupid and crazy over and over again. Tell you what; you reword that to not sound like an ***, I'll give $50 to Melee.

 

[Osennecho]

No, if Melee gets in, there's gonna be a large chance that EVO will adopt the "Melee master race" mentality and nothing but Melee will get in in the future. There's also a good chance that that won't happen, but I think that has a much larger chance of happening than what you said. I'm not being selfish, I just see things differently than you.

I guess I can sort of understand that view, but I really have to disagree with it. I respect my brain for anything involving odds and mathematical things. Brawl has been in EVO before but not recently because smash fell off in hype and with the recent APEX results brawl/smash will build hype. Just smash in general anywhere major will contribute to that is the simplest way I can break my view down. Regardless, we have reached an impasse.

 

[Osennecho]

I'd listed to you if you weren't just calling me stupid and crazy over and over again. Tell you what; you reword that to not sound like an ***, I'll give $50 to Melee.

Me? Did I call you stupid and crazy? Or did you mean other people? I'll reword my previous post if you want but I'm still gonna call Skullgirls random ****.

 

[Biz_R_0]

Not you, Landry.

 

[thechunkylover]

I am absolutely fine with Melee winning. I was just saying that I'm sticking to my guns and riding the Brawl train as far as it goes.

That's ****ing stupid.

"We should be one big happy family"

"I'm only going to be a stubborn **** and support the game that has a less likely chance of getting in instead of using my brain"

 

[Osennecho]

Not you, Landry.

Ah. Ok. That makes more sense... I was confused as to how to reword it. And Landry go fix ur post and say your sorry. Smash needs more donations.

 

[Biz_R_0]

@chunky you've never made a non-troll post, but despite that 5/10 thought you were making a point.

 

[Osennecho]

That's ****ing stupid.

"We should be one big happy family"

"I'm only going to be a stubborn **** and support the game that has a less likely chance of getting in instead of using my brain"

Stop pissing off people with money. You don't understand how the world works >.<... GTFO

 

[zmx]

If people are going to donate to Melee, not because they like Melee but because they want to support Smash as a whole...don't.

Melee players lose no oppertunities in bashing Brawl. And I'm not just talking about random posters and stream monsters. I'm talking about prominent, well respected people in the community doing this and the Melee community being perfectly okay with it.

In other words they won't be returning the favor anytime soon, in fact they'll use Melee getting into Evo as even more reason to bash Brawl. Not to mention they will likely bash Smash 4 as well (which is likely to be more like Brawl than Melee).

Obviously, not everyone in the Melee community is like this but a significant portion are. As someone that likes both Brawl and Melee, it really is dumb to see.

 

[Biz_R_0]

@Osennecho I don't care, that guy's probably trolling. However, Landry did make a good point, but my pride won't allow me to basically pay someone for calling me an idiot.

 

[Volt_Storm_7]

Unfortunely, for Brawl's sake, Melee at this point has a better chance. It has more donations. Even if Brawl doesn't get in, Melee still has a greater chance. There's always next time because I'm sure if either Smash games get in, they will recognize this community.

 

[thechunkylover]

Well it's your money so do whatever you want. But if you're donating to brawl with the intent that Brawl actually makes it into EVO at this point you're delusional. At least it goes to breast cancer research.

 

[Osennecho]

Unfortunely, for Brawl's sake, Melee at this point has a better chance. It has more donations. Even if Brawl doesn't get in, Melee still has a greater chance. There's always next time because I'm sure if either Smash games get in, they will recognize this community.

That is pretty much my exact viewpoint especially since 3DS users will play smash 4 and smash will gain even more fans. I'm done with this all now. I have to go do tons of work for Honors classes for my college before tomorrow =.=....

 

[Biz_R_0]

@chunky I was trying to rally support for Brawl by making it seem possible, that's why I put the goal there instead of just straight up donating. However, that turned me into the lovechild of Jefferson Davis and Ebeneezer Scrooge, apparently.

 

[MajorMoses]

I love my Avatar as well XD. Found it while cleaning my computer a while back and it's been my Avatar ever since. Pikachu just stares at you with those eyes. And than I'm reminded of pikachu crying over ketchup. Which was just godlike years back when that happened.

I... I meant the outfit Pikachu is wearing. You DO know what that's from, don't you?

 

[---]

Yeah the division in the community is awful, it's one thing to prefer a game over another but the sheer negativity going around on the boards at times arguing over which game is better is just terrible. Either way only one of the two can get in so what happens happens. I personally don't care about competitive play. The only thing that bothers me is that Brawl didn't get it's own EVO thread unlike Melee until now.

I just hope Smash 4 comes out sooner rather than later so we can have something to help reunite the community as well as get some new users to re-spark the community again (hopefully without the mess that was Pre-Brawl).

 

[Biz_R_0]

It did get its own thread...that was immediately locked.

 

[Djent]

This is the first time Melee players have been talking about "family" and "comraderie" with Brawlers. Remember the MLG Throwback Poll started by an MLG forum user, where you could vote for two games? Remember how Brawl actually stood a chance of winning that poll? Remember the, uh, types of "discussion" that came up? Scroll through that thread and look at the reactions of some of the Melee players. This is no official poll mind you, so the situation isn't perfectly analogous. Yet Brawl had a chance to make an impression, and Melee players voted for other games for it despite the fact that they didn't have to pick between Smash titles.

Now fast-forward two years. This time it's an official poll and there's money involved. Now the Melee players come in begging for support. "Please support our game, for the sake of SMASH!!1" **** that. There was little backing from the Melee guys for the sake of SMASH when Brawl had a chance of getting in. Now Brawl players are supposed to donate Melee's way into EVO in return? And you guys claim that the Brawl players aren't being used...

Despite sharing a forum and hosting tournaments in the same venue, the Smash Community is not a unified front. Brawl received a big "**** you" in terms of support when it mattered, and now the Meleeheads say they're supposed to do this for SMASH. Never mind the fact that many Melee players never gave a **** about anything but the Melee community before this. Never mind that this involves actual money instead of a simple vote-and-click. Do it for the Smash Community, despite the fact that the Smash Community never meant anything to most of you before this. ****.

 

[Landry]

@Biz_R_0

Look man, I'm not trying to start a big fight. I really think this is a discussion that is worth having. However, I think your premise is flawed and here's why -

You say that you're afraid the FGC will adopt a "Melee is superior" mentality if Melee was to appear at Evo. However, Evo (and the FGC in general) has proven time and time again that they favor shiny new games over older iterations. This is why I think that if Melee appears in Evo it will be good for all Smash titles. High level matches like we saw at Apex can really open a lot of peoples eyes to the Smash community. I know there have been a lot of supportive sentiments from the FGC people who attended Evo in favor of Smash.

I understand that you prefer Brawl. I've played all versions of Smash and in a lot of ways I think each title has its pros and cons. However, at this point and time the Melee community (and the entire Smash community through extension) has laid a lot of groundwork that might allow us to participate in Evo. Brawl also has a shot, but at this point I really think it's an uphill battle. That's why I'm arguing that we should pick one to support and stick to it. I'd feel the same way if it was Brawl or SSB64.

Anyway, sorry for being so argumentative. I realize that you're just trying to do what's right in your eyes. However, I'm sort of (read: very) frustrated with these sentiments that are dividing the Smash community. I feel that fighting (what I see as) a losing battle for Brawl is just another side of the coin to the negative perceptions some people have of different Smash games. Either way we're dividing a community that should be coming together.

tl;dr - We should focus on the Smash community as whole before any individual game. Melee took a back seat when Brawl reemerged on the MLG circuit and now it's time to give Melee a chance to shine at Evo.

 

[Biz_R_0]

Alright, thanks. Off to donate to Melee, hopefully I'll be wrong about what would happen.

 

[BSP]

Actually, this fits here....kinda. This is coming from the "official Melee @ evo" thread

If melee makes it, that's exposure for competitive smash Melee as well as competitive melee.

Good exposure for competitive smash Melee paints Brawl Melee in a better light.

People who see and are amazed at competitive smash
Melee, who don't hate brawl and can enjoy it will be more likely to support competitive smash Melee which means a greater potential of new players for brawl and/or melee.

however, if money is split between brawl and melee, and as a result, the splitting causes melee to lose its spot. then competitive smash Melee gets no exposure.

It then becomes a question of, "Well do I want to support Melee, and thus support competitive Smash Melee or take a huge risk and try to push brawl to number 1 or 2 spot, which is very unlikely at this point."

Granted, vote for whatever you want, but getting a smash game Melee in the spotlight is great for us all, and Melee is far more likely to succeed than Brawl, so efforts of getting Smash Melee into the limelight would better be used on Melee.

This is what I see happening, with a "No" to the "great for 'us' all" part.

I don't despise Melee in the slightest, but I'm questioning why people have started claiming that Brawl players donating to Melee helps them too. Don't pull this "Smash Community" stuff. We all know that we're separated.

All of us here know better than any others that Brawl and Melee are not the same game. Exposure for one =/= Exposure for the other. I don't see what's making you guys think that Melee getting in the spotlight will help Brawl in some way. This "Competitive Smash" thing will be dropped for "This is Melee". On EVO's page, people will see "Super Smash Bros. Melee". If asked, "What game is this?" in a stream, melee players will say "This is Super Smash Bros Melee".

Do you really think someone is going to go out of their way to mention brawl?

Furthermore, if melee makes EVO, what's stopping the melee community from trying to separate from Brawl even farther? "We were at EVO" is even more leverage if that becomes the case, and most of the players don't think much of brawl anyway.

Before I get labeled for trolling, I am 100% serious. Keep in mind you're asking Brawl players to help a community that has treated them poorly in the past, and one that would have no urgent incentive to give back to the community that helped them, along with the fact that they hate said community's game in the first place.

I'm fine with melee trying to get in. Just don't try to bait brawl players into helping you with some false hopes.

@Big, I think you're correct on your fears, actually. If you like Melee, it's NOT a bad decision to donate. I do think it will hurt Brawl though in the long run. That's for you to weigh though.

 

[Landry]

How could Melee doing well possible hurt Brawl? This is what I really don't understand. Either way we're supporting Smash. If we ever want Smash 4 to have a successful community we need to start revitalizing the entire Smash scene sooner rather than later.

 

[Seartu]

This is the first time Melee players have been talking about "family" and "comraderie" with Brawlers. Remember the MLG Throwback Poll started by an MLG forum user, where you could vote for two games? Remember how Brawl actually stood a chance of winning that poll? Remember the, uh, types of "discussion" that came up? Scroll through that thread and look at the reactions of some of the Melee players. This is no official poll mind you, so the situation isn't perfectly analogous. Yet Brawl had a chance to make an impression, and Melee players voted for other games for it despite the fact that they didn't have to pick between Smash titles.

Now fast-forward two years. This time it's an official poll and there's money involved. Now the Melee players come in begging for support. "Please support our game, for the sake of SMASH!!1" **** that. There was little backing from the Melee guys for the sake of SMASH when Brawl had a chance of getting in. Now Brawl players are supposed to donate Melee's way into EVO in return? And you guys claim that the Brawl players aren't being used...

Despite sharing a forum and hosting tournaments in the same venue, the Smash Community is not a unified front. Brawl received a big "**** you" in terms of support when it mattered, and now the Meleeheads say they're supposed to do this for SMASH. Never mind the fact that many Melee players never gave a **** about anything but the Melee community before this. Never mind that this involves actual money instead of a simple vote-and-click. Do it for the Smash Community, despite the fact that the Smash Community never meant anything to most of you before this. ****.

I can't say for certain because I've only been a part of the melee community for the last 10 months or so but it seems to me, a very vocal minority driving this rift between our two games. I don't play Brawl, it doesn't even really appeal to me, but who am I to hate on a game I don't play?

I think that a really large majority of the community would rather see both games in the spotlight than neither. I also think that there has likely been at least a minor shift in the last two years. Two years isn't a long time but in the lifetime of brawl, it's about %50.

I'm not going to tell Brawl people to donate for melee, by all means, fight for the game you love. But reliving this old tension is not good for anyone.

There is a lot of blame to go around on both sides. It comes down to making the best decision you can. There's no need for hate.

 

[Biz_R_0]

The deed is done, now let's all shut up.

 

[Landry]

You are a man of your word. Thank you for supporting Melee and the entire Smash community.

I'm sorry I was so aggressively argumentative with you earlier. I realize wasn't the best line of discussion I could have taken.

 

[Biz_R_0]

It's okay, everyone gets like that.

 

[Life]

Thank you Biz.

 

[Djent]

Someday, and that day may never come, I'm going to ask you for a favor.

 

[Revven]

<snips really long rant>

Holding grudges never helps anything. Even if things were complete **** back then. Times have changed. It's time for everyone to just man up and do whatever it takes to get recognized. This is only going to be a one time chance for Smash and if you wanna blow it by holding some petty grudge for something that happened 2 years ago, go ahead. The same goes for anyone else who has that same viewpoint. By all means pick the game you want. But if you want Smash to get any recognition at all, the only game that has a shot right now, and is very much still in the lead by a small smidgen, is Melee.

Having ANY Smash there helps not only the current games, but the NEXT game, Smash 4. This is how Evo operates. If Smash is hype at Evo, you can bet your *** Smash 4 (whenever it comes out and if it has a good scene for it) will be at that year's Evo.

*Bows out of thread before anything gets heated*