Brawl-: 1.5-1.6 thread archive. 2.0 is stickied

[Sinz]

Charizard can't learn stealth rock!

 

[[TSON]]

And Jigglypuff can't learn explosion.

:3

 

[Izaniki]

Pikachu's combos out of bair are stupid. Thunder jolt is reeeeally annoying. It's... I don't know. Pikachu scares me.


Ness has ... canon pk flash (stun, dizzy, ohko, and many other variations of hitboxes)

Just throwing my 2 cents out there.

I usually play Pikachu, nowadays, as he has always been one of my favorite characters anyways As for bair, while I think it's amazing when you hit with it, it seems like its ability to be stopped on the way to you makes it less than fantastic.

I may be using it wrong, and keep in mind I play against Zelda a lot, but I find it really easy to get knocked out of bair. The only way to get a hit off of it reliably is to do a quick RAR and SH it, but that leads to a weird "zap-jump" situation where you dont' get the flying momentum and just jump straight up.

I have to disagree on Thunder Jolt too, though this one isn't as 'tested'. The ability to JC an aerial TJ's lag into another TJ is amazing, yes, but whenever I had my friend play as Pikachu, I didn't have much trouble either NOT getting hit at all, or not getting hit many times. If you get your opponent stuck in it, it seems much harder for them to do anything (as long as you hit them with the spiking ones and alternate) but it was never hard for me to stay out of it :x

The one thing I'd love to see is SideB having an interrupt when you're in the air, even if it's just a jump or something. It's such a slow move that's easy to avoid, and anytime I accidentally use it (or for long-distance recovery), I get punished Though, I don't want this to sound like I'm arguing for all attacks to be unpunishable



I hadn't seen that with PK Flash (I can't stand Ness ). That sounds like a lot of fun :3

 

[Blatt Blvd]

LOL @ Tier list for this game.

Right now, all we have is usable(Ike, Luigi, Zelda,ect), unusable(OLMAR WTF?!?!) and Mid tiers(prolly Bowser).

 

[Nelo Vergil]

The fact any tier discussion is being done considering we'll likely see a new build "decently" soon is pretty funny.

I definetly agree on Charizard, he's too.....samey I guess, he's buffed sure, but he's still the big fat dragon with nothing terribly special (well his Glide is awesome, but thats about it). This may sound incredibly nooby, but considering he's the only one I ever seem to have this problem with, I think its justified. Can Charizard not auto sweet spot the ledge, Ive never done it with him, Ive always gone past it, leading to me being punished. Nair should be faster in the air (maybe change it to like a Flame Wheel attack where he's engulfed by flames and can hit all around him at once...which I realize his current Nair does, but only to a certain degree). Down Smash I feel should have a larger range beyond what he does like Dedede's quake trip on his Fsmash, just to keep him safer...Dsmash still seems kinda worthless for the most part. Moves like Ftilt should always "tipper". His other throws minus Down Throw I think could use work, and I think his neutral B could use something unique about it....like making it that Fire version of Hyper Beam all the starters can learn or something. Powerful is fine and dandy, as Sonic shows, but Sonic always had the tools to be successful (minus priority) which he has now. Charizard is still missing combo ability and speed. My two cents.

There was someone else I kind of wanted to comment on, but I cant remember atm....well, Ill feedback later when I remember =p

 

[Rudra]

Zard's getting Stealth Rock? *imagines Zard breaking the boulder and leaving some of the debris in the air for a short time* lmao

Not sure if its possible, but what about making his flame sweetspots on some moves actually add additional damage through a "burn"? Like, if the opponent got hit by Ftilt, Dthrow or Fair's (inner?) hitbox, they not only get the fire effect but they also take additional damage over time? Maybe it could only have a chance of occuring too.

 

[Falcon88]

Stealth Rock? How will that work? Oh well, it sounds awesome, though. Charizard needs more combos IMO.

By the way, I agree that Bowser is either ridiculously good or really bad depending on the matchup. I fell like Ganon ***** him and other characters, not so much. Although I must say he is fun.

 

[Rkey]

If this goes on, how about lowering the cap for his armor and give him more combos? For starters we could let shorthop uair AC.

 

[standardtoaster]

Streaming again. http://www.ustream.tv/channel/pitminus Also, I can do wifi now! I'll edit this post with my results later.

 

[Falcon88]

If this goes on, how about lowering the cap for his armor and give him more combos? For starters we could let shorthop uair AC.

Eh, maybe the shorthop AC'd Uair but not much more. I will say that his SA is a little too Super at the moment.

By the way, what if Side B had an effect like the old Koopa Klaw when it fails to grab?

 

[stingers]

tier list:

only tournament viable character
ROB

only person that has a chance against ROB
bowser

everyone else
everyone else

 

[Hyro]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6eVFAouFH4

 

[Nelo Vergil]

Zard's getting Stealth Rock? *imagines Zard breaking the boulder and leaving some of the debris in the air for a short time* lmao

Not sure if its possible, but what about making his flame sweetspots on some moves actually add additional damage through a "burn"? Like, if the opponent got hit by Ftilt, Dthrow or Fair's (inner?) hitbox, they not only get the fire effect but they also take additional damage over time? Maybe it could only have a chance of occuring too.

This too.

Im seriously enjoying how everyone is like Bowsers SA is so OP, its annoying to fight sure, but so far, Ive yet to see a character road blocked by Bowser. As for Rob -, Id love to play a good one to understand why he is so OP, the B laser is good, cant deny that, and he's got crazy mobility, but Top Tier....hmm, I wonder

 

[stingers]

bowser doesnt even have a good chance against rob he's just the only one with a chance

 

[Nelo Vergil]

I take it you use Rob then Stinger? Care for a few matches then

 

[stingers]

on...wifi? lol
i'm not at home now anyway

 

[Nelo Vergil]

well, until - starts getting +'s attention, how else are you supposed to do things, as awesome as it is, I dont see organizers going crazy about adding = to there events...which is a problem in itself, thus why good video evidence of play needs to be gathered, to destroy the impression that - is just a joke

 

[stingers]

there was supposed to be a brawl- tourney in nc yesterday but nobody brought hacked wiis lol. there will be a - tourney on may 1st though

 

[Izaniki]

This too.

Im seriously enjoying how everyone is like Bowsers SA is so OP, its annoying to fight sure, but so far, Ive yet to see a character road blocked by Bowser. As for Rob -, Id love to play a good one to understand why he is so OP, the B laser is good, cant deny that, and he's got crazy mobility, but Top Tier....hmm, I wonder

Yeah, I completely agree. The only thing I've seen people complain about is multilaser, but I haven't had a problem with it so far (then again, I play characters that can close distance or reflect or absorb so it's usually np ).

I'd love to see some ROB OP-showcasing

 

[stingers]

lol, i'm home now, if you actually want to play some wifi

 

[[TSON]]

why does nobody shield or airdodge anymore

 

[stingers]

what does that have to do with the discussion at all

 

[[TSON]]

robs lasers < shield

usu.

and zelda < airdodges

always

 

[stingers]

XD
oh you

 

[[TSON]]

im 100% srs

if you powershield a laser and take the rest

you have half shield

and rob has no charge

**** now

 

[stingers]

saying *anymove* < shield is almost always right 99.9% of the time, so that's a stupid argument in the first place, but it's hilarious because robs laser is like the only move that's actually wrong about. on anyone but jiggs you can just shoot lasers and shieldstab them at the end. and that's not even what's good about ROB. like oh my god that's just hilariously shortminded you'd even say that

 

[[TSON]]

how is that a lie

at all

i mean that was my whole reasoning for getting the max charge lasers in. it used to only be uncharged. and no you cant shieldstab them at the end because what rob main uses lasers at point blank

honestly

 

[Nelo Vergil]

Thank you TSON for reminding the world that the Shield still has a use...XD.

Shield vs anyone>generally safe outside a few moves from choices individuals

Shield vs Sonic<your kinda screwed for the most part

 

[stingers]

and no you cant shieldstab them at the end because what rob main uses lasers at point blank

you do know you can angle robs lasers right

 

[[TSON]]

and? you cant angle the hitboxes backwards so they pull in when they hit lmfao.

 

[stingers]

what does that have to do with shieldstabbing
have you used rob before

 

[[TSON]]

laser rapidfire, even fully charged, is not enough shieldstun or shield damage to do anything out of at all unless you're not far from them. you MIGHT be able to get sideB fair out at the most, but thats not gonna break shields or lead into anything that will

 

[stingers]

i didnt say break shields...i said stab them

 

[Crystalorbie]

Sadly, I find the endlag of the laser too much compared to the shieldstun it causes, so opponents can leave the shield and be elsewhere by the time ROB can move again.

Or worse, they can take the last hit of the laser, take the hitstun, and fly backwards so ROB cannot chase them down when they cannot do anything. Now ROB has no full laser, and characters can be quite capable of simply jumping over ROB (I realize good ROB players may be able to deal with threats above them better than my freinds, but for me, this works) and attacking ROB from there.

 

[Sinz]

How is that a bad thing? that prevents laser to laser to laser crap.

 

[iLink]

I have to say that a lot of attacks that influence your aerial momentum really just make the attack worse.

D3's fair for example makes it super awkward to hit with as well as most of Wario's aerials.

Also Wolf's infinite sideb is pretty ridiculous.

 

[Izaniki]

@Stingers/TSON thing:
I think Stingers is saying that with any level of multi-laser*, you can poke through the shield and hit with at least one laser, assuming you angle at their feet or head (like Pit does with arrows). While this isn't much to worry about with uncharged, the full charged are quite dangerous with even one hit and more often than not, will send the opponent off the stage so that you can go in for the gimp.

*(The always poking thing might not be true for all levels, I can't remember very well at the moment! )

Personally, whenever I have a full charged laser, I usually feel like it's a free stock. Get the opponent to like 30~% and find an opportunity to fire and they die most of the time. Then again, the people I play with don't like to use shields so I often get a full blast of max-charge lasers. :D

That said, I wasn't trying to take sides and am withholding making a judgement on the OP of ROB until I can see it in action (if you find a vid, lemme know!).


Is the Pika bair-weird-'zap-jump' thing intentional? Where you hit jump+bair at the same time (like with ROB teleport/explosion) and you end up just doing regular bair without any horizontal momentum, I mean. It's nice to use when you actually mean to, but otherwise it's a pain

 

[Rkey]

Perfect shielding will be a big part of the metagame in brawl-, because you get less shieldstun from perfect shielding, right?

 

[Izaniki]

I believe you get no shield stun on a perfect shield. No shield damage either IIRC. But yeah, PS has always been a huge benefit for people, as you take no damage and can immediately act. That's why buffering PS was such a complaint for people. With the new code, it's not as big of a deal

 

[stingers]

of course you only perfect shield the first laser and the rest damage your shield anyway lol