Bowser's New U-throw options

[MrEh]

MrEh i'm not sure pivot grab is a good option out of up throw. I don't think it works since you can't regrab in this game.

You do this AFTER you uthrow--->utilt. The uthrow to utilt is a real combo. After that, you guess what your opponent is gonna do.

Pivot grab does work in this situation.

 

[Conn1496]

You do this AFTER you uthrow--->utilt. The uthrow to utilt is a real combo. After that, you guess what your opponent is gonna do.

Pivot grab does work in this situation.

It's actually incredible against a lot of heavies because they tend to just drop right into it. Still, I tend to U-tilt again because it only leaves them one truly safe option (Since air dodge can usually be punished and most air moves won't react fast enough or reach far enough to hit without atleast trading (Which I've actually had cancel my U-tilt into another U-tilt for a double tilt true combo twice, which is pretty stupid.).), jump away, which can often be read hard.

(Also, should be noted, that U-throw > U-tilt is actually not a true combo on some characters at 0%-X% so you probably wanna watch out for which characters need to take a little damage before U-tilt > U-throw too.)

 

[Zigsta]

I've been getting both fair and bair on Samus at around mid 70s. I also find it a lot easier to time up throw to upsmash at 0% instead of uptilt. Not sure if it's character dependent.

 

[Jack Atlas]

I've been getting both fair and bair on Samus at around mid 70s. I also find it a lot easier to time up throw to upsmash at 0% instead of uptilt. Not sure if it's character dependent.

It is character dependent. I found it to not work on fast fallers at 0 but it does work around 20-30 ish. i dont remember the exact percent but every time i landed up throw up smash they were around that percentage.

 

[Zigsta]

It is character dependent. I found it to not work on fast fallers at 0 but it does work around 20-30 ish. i dont remember the exact percent but every time i landed up throw up smash they were around that percentage.

That's what I was thinking. More testing is definitely needed to figure out the best throw combos.

Has anyone figured out a way to get 3 throw combos to lead to a KO on medium weight? It's taking me 4 on Mario.

Another thing I'm wondering is if there's jank followups we can do with upthrow > upsmash at 0%. Depending on what part of the upsmash you connect with, the opponent goes behind Bowser a bit, allowing for another upsmash or uptilt. I wonder if you can time a pivot grab in there to go into another upthrow > upsmash. Would lead to a quick 48%. I'm testing it out right now, but I also wonder if the regrab time is too close.

Ughhhh I gotta go to bed soon but this lab thooooo

From what I gather from my limited testing, you can regrab Mario following the first upsmash. Bowser's head needs to hit Mario during the attack, which can be done by literally just mashing the c stick during the upthrow.

Most times Mario then fell right in front of me and could be regrabbed. Rarely he went behind me, and I'm honestly just too tired to react with a pivot grab right now. XD

I'm not sure if the regrab is DI dependent or would be different with a human opponent. I was testing in training mode with Mario set to jump.

I'm unfortunately going out of town for 3 weeks this Saturday, so my testing time is incredibly limited for a while.

Hopefully something I said jump starts someone here.

 

[Big Sean]

So played probably like 60 games tonight against over a dozen players. Some very good crew mates ... some not so good for glory-ers. Here's what's been working for me:

• 0-35% - up tilts. I usually like to do two up tilts and train them to air dodge. Then charged up smash becomes viable.
• 35%-95% - unclear what to do here. Fair usually works though. Sometimes i'll empty jump to burn their double jumps and set up an up smash landing trap.
• 95%-110% - I think I might just be bad but after 110% everyone always DIs/double jumps out of it for me. So what that leaves me is a very tiny window of around 100-109% to actually kill them. Even then too, i'm not getting the kill percentages other people are getting. I once up aired cloud at 111% on town and city and he totally lived!

I find it's pretty easy to get people into like a loop where I up tilt them, they burn an imporant landing option, which makes it easy to regrab and start the whole thing over. I've gotten from 0-60% a couple times this way. This works well for characters who don't have safe landing options like falcon's bair.

I encourage more people to play with good DIers because up air is a harder tool than it seems, at least for me.

 

[UltimaLuminaire]

Zigsta Yes, you can time it. Sometimes, it's better to just turn around grab, but Mario can end up pretty far from you due to his good air mobility.

On another note, in case an opponent challenges you after the jank 0% UThrow -> USmash, another USmash or even UTilt definitely won't come out fast enough. In that case, I'm wondering if our options are limited to run -> pivot grab, shield, and Fortress, assuming running would get you out of the way and Fortress would actually win.

Big Sean For sure, it feels much harder to time and aim than DK's Ding Dong. I've been able to nail an UAir follow-up on Mario around 128%, but it's extremely hard to time the first jump. If you can nail the first jump, the second jump seems to come easy. Everything changes with weight and fall speed, as per the usual for grab follow-ups, so it's going to be a long road.

 

[MrEh]

• 35%-95% - unclear what to do here. Fair usually works though. Sometimes i'll empty jump to burn their double jumps and set up an up smash landing trap.

Did you not just Nair them? Uthrow to Nair is real. I labbed a lot today and this was real against most characters past 30%.


In the case of the Uthrow to Uair, full hop Uair while jumping forward usually covers most forms of DI in the cases where the combo is possible. As long as you're jumping forward, it covers a lot.

 

[UltimaLuminaire]

MrEh I'm running into an issue where, when I land the NAir followup, I get 18% off he NAir. Have you, or anyone else, been able to nail 24%?

 

[MrEh]

You mean all 4 hits? I have. It depends on the character and the percent. Even getting 2 hits is acceptable because Nair does like 6 per hit and puts you in a really good position afterwards.

Make sure you full hop Nair. Are you doing it from a shorthop instead?

 

[pitfall356]

God, I can't ****ing believe uthrow -> nair. After nair's damage buff, it almost feels broken. I'm hoping to see some downright brutal combos in the next few weeks that give Bowser a serious edge.

Since they're going to add Bayonetta and another Fire Emblem character, that tells me we'll receive at least one more balance patch, right? I sure hope Bowser doesn't become broken or something. I mean, he still has his flaws, but this seems like a huge buff. One he really needed, sure, but... If it's too much, Bowser will get nerfed. Guess we'll have to wait and see, eh?

Long live the King. A new era of Bowser has arrived.

 

[MrEh]

No I'm pretty sure Bowser still sucks.

He still has the same issues against any decent character. It's just that he gets big conversions off throws now. It's a huge buff, but Bowser is just really flawed in general.

 

[Cronoc]

Yeah, Bowser just get's more mileage off of a win in neutral, if that win was a grab. It doesn't fix his weaknesses, though the reverse fortress fix makes going offstage much safer. Bowser still can't land, still whiffs klaws up close, and still gets combo'd to hell. Certain characters are very difficult to pivot grab (try pivot grabbing Yoshi as he does fade-back fairs or Ike as he runs in for a dash attack). The harder a character/player is to grab, the less those matchups will change due to the patch.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Not guaranteed but low percents only and if the opponent chooses to land you can uthrow > utilt > grab > repeat x2-3 times.

Right before they land. Pseudo chain grab.

Very strict.

At the edge we might also get near guaranteed dair dunks.

We also have a use for dsmash.

Uthrow > dsmash > Bowser Bomb at low percent is amazing.

46% combo if they don't get up.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Based on the video link below, Bowser's u-throw is now capable of KOing whoever gets caught in the middle of the attack. However, Bowser would still have to do a follow-up on the fighter that he grabbed.

https://youtu.be/U0kA6akLSDI?t=161

 

[Hitman JT]

...............I did not ask for this buff. But now that we have it, I'm going to abuse the almighty hell out of it. Call it sweet retribution/revenge for having to be juggled to death by every character on the bloody roster for an entire year. This likely won't push Bowser into godhood as he still can't land, but it will be entertaining to watch the bandwagoners crash and burn when they realize that Bowser still has a crappy neutral game.

Spoiler

Have to admit that Bayonetta will be giving Bowser some serious competition for main status. Oh my damn.

 

[MrEh]

It'll be like the DK bandwagon all over again. Only difference is that you don't even get to move when you play Bowser. lol

 

[adom4]

How reliable is U-throw ->U-air compared to Ding dong?
Does he have to read DI to get the kill like R.O.B?

 

[MrEh]

Depends on the character. Overall it's less reliable than the Ding Dong and requires higher percents to get the kill.

And yes, sometimes you have to read DI.


EDIT: I just realized you have a Tyrian avatar. 10x points.

 

[hotdogtaco4321]

Did some basic training-mode testing, FD with the computer set to not move.
Sheik gets uthrow > uair and dies from 84 > 133%
Mario gets uthrow > uair and dies from 95 > 130%

Saw that Bowser got the new uthrow and I just wanted to do a little preliminary stuff before I have to go out of town for a few days

I tried some testing and sheik died from 89%-138% but that is just what you found except 5% higher

 

[S_B]

...............I did not ask for this buff.

We asked for it for you.

...And I mean that both figuratively and somewhat literally, as I was beating the combo throw drum pretty damn hard this entire time, but also because watching Bowsers like you, KKong, Calm Animal, etc. tear it up in tournaments is basically my football. Seriously, I relax and unwind by queuing up the latest S@X.

I did just take 2nd at the first local tournament I've ever gone to (defeated one power ranked player and took 4 games off another so I guess I'm better than I thought), but I'm still more excited for these Bowser buffs at the prospect of watching YOU fellas tear it up with Bowser.

I'm just glad there's a very REAL reason to be afraid of Bowser getting in now. Maybe some opponents will start respecting him...

And yeah, Bayonetta is actually a pretty cool final addition, and Sakurai's way of saying, "OKAY, EUROPE. YOU CAN STFU ABOUT ME ALWAYS IGNORING YOU NOW!!!!!!!"

 

[nick64]

http://youtu.be/nApitSH0Jso Just gonna leave this here. Note the fsmash at the end works if they air dodge before it.

 

[S_B]

Based on the video link below, Bowser's u-throw is now capable of KOing whoever gets caught in the middle of the attack. However, Bowser would still have to do a follow-up on the fighter that he grabbed.

https://youtu.be/U0kA6akLSDI?t=161

Ah nice. The final hitbox change on the attack no doubt referred to this.

http://youtu.be/nApitSH0Jso Just gonna leave this here. Note the fsmash at the end works if they air dodge before it.

Hell has officially frozen over if BOWSER has a Fair combo on SHEIK...

 

[Conn1496]

Can we just take some time to talk about how powerful U-throw launches people sideways who aren't in the grab? Holy monkey-biscuits, that's brutal. It has the potential to kill Bowser at 90%. It might not be as good as say, Meta Knight's collateral grab (Which also kills Bows at 90%.), but it's kills at similar %s in the right situations (It even kills some characters earlier because of the angle it throws them at. *cough* Mac.).

It's not much, but this is damn something for 2v2s. -also, notably for 1v1s, I've had this move kill Luma pretty quickly if it hits them, too. So our Rosa matchup is slightly better too, in that respect (Very damn slightly. lol).

Also, I think a lot of people aren't mentioning how Jab > Grab is a lot scarier now. It gives us two powerful Jab1 options, and that's a pretty big deal IMO.

 

[Zigsta]

http://youtu.be/nApitSH0Jso Just gonna leave this here. Note the fsmash at the end works if they air dodge before it.

Doesn't look like that CPU was set to jump. Has anyone tried this either with a human opponent or a CPU set to jump?

 

[Conn1496]

Doesn't look like that CPU was set to jump. Has anyone tried this either with a human opponent or a CPU set to jump?

It literally just isn't a viable option. It's kind of a read on air-dodge, but that's an awful option anyway since F-air doesn't follow up into anything you can air-dodge and F-air is a true combo so attempting an air-dodge on that is literally pointless.

 

[Zigsta]

It literally just isn't a viable option. It's kind of a read on air-dodge, but that's an awful option anyway since F-air doesn't follow up into anything you can air-dodge and F-air is a true combo so attempting an air-dodge on that is literally pointless.

Maybe in another lifetime we'll have an extended throw combo on Sheik.

Regarding your previous post on jab > grab, that definitely helps to get your opponent closer to KO percent. Jab to KO confirm? YES PLEASE.

 

[S_B]

Can we just take some time to talk about how powerful U-throw launches people sideways who aren't in the grab?

Yeah, I'm...almost wondering if that madness is bugged or something. I mean, damn. Why would a collateral throw do THAT much knockback?

It's extremely dangerous to try to break a teammate out of a grab in 2v2s now...

 

[Conn1496]

Yeah, I'm...almost wondering if that madness is bugged or something. I mean, damn. Why would a collateral throw do THAT much knockback?

See: Meta Knight. lol

 

[S_B]

See: Meta Knight. lol

True, but it's still such a strange thing to have in a throw...

 

[Conn1496]

True, but it's still such a strange thing to have in a throw...

Collateral damage is in a lot of throws. It's only natural that a few would be far more powerful than others, IMO.

 

[K~G|Spacejam]

The collateral damage part is stupid. I nearly killed a rob at 4% because he walked into the new Uthrow.

Regardless if a person plays little mac or cloud and walks into our UThrow I have no idea if they would be able to recover now.

 

[S_B]

Collateral damage is in a lot of throws. It's only natural that a few would be far more powerful than others, IMO.

More powerful, sure.

Killing Bowser at 90%? Seems unnecessary...

 

[Xandercosm]

Man, this means so much to me. All this time I've been waiting on Bowser. Waiting for him to be thrown a bone. This is amazing.

 

[Big-Cat]

It's actually the other way around with this buff.

 

[Conn1496]

More powerful, sure.

Killing Bowser at 90%? Seems unnecessary...

Again...
This guy's U-throw is worse. OP collateral throws are nothing new. lol (He shares it with Kirby, but I think Kirby's does less collateral... Char has a similar one, but I haven't tested that personally, so no idea.)

 

[S_B]

OP collateral throws are nothing new.

New, old, or ancient beyond time itself, I still don't see the logic behind it.

Collateral throws are more likely to be killing people in casual play/FFAs which seems like it's only going to confuse casual players when they get murdered out of the blue.

 

[Xandercosm]

New, old, or ancient beyond time itself, I still don't see the logic behind it.

Collateral throws are more likely to be killing people in casual play/FFAs which seems like it's only going to confuse casual players when they get murdered out of the blue.

Personally, I like it. I just killed a Lucina at, like, 30% in a doubles match on FG with it. it's hilarious to watch them go flying off at diagonal angle with no hope of recovery.

 

[S_B]

Personally, I like it. I just killed a Lucina at, like, 30% in a doubles match on FG with it. it's hilarious to watch them go flying off at diagonal angle with no hope of recovery.

Well, I didn't say it's not hella funny...

I just don't understand why Sakurai would want them to be this powerful. It's no nerf to Bowser to have one like this, though, unless we have an idiot teammate in doubles who runs into us or something (and that ain't OUR fault).

 

[Xandercosm]

Well, I didn't say it's not hella funny...

I just don't understand why Sakurai would want them to be this powerful. It's no nerf to Bowser to have one like this, though, unless we have an idiot teammate in doubles who runs into us or something (and that ain't OUR fault).

Yup...