Bowser Worse or better?

[KevinM]

What? Are you calling me a n00b, because of what I said about Ness being slower than Bowser?

I'm just saying you don't know what you're talking about because you didn't play Bowser competitvely in melee .

 

[-Kagato-]

I still say Bowser is better in Brawl from my experience using him. His new abilites make up for his lack of "melee tactics." My Bowser was more of a mind game Bowser than a comboist anyway so I'm more than happy with his new style.

 

[many37]

Bowser has gotten a lot better from the videos that I have seen. Tremendous change from SSBM to SSBB with that Flying Slam of his.

 

[WastingPenguins]

I still say Bowser is better in Brawl from my experience using him. His new abilites make up for his lack of "melee tactics." My Bowser was more of a mind game Bowser than a comboist anyway so I'm more than happy with his new style.

So you're saying that taking away what limited combo ability that Bowser used to have has made him... better? Can you give me any specifics on what aspects of the character you think have improved? I'm curious.

Also I was talking to a friend back home who owns Brawl and he said that after the novelty wears off you realize that Bowser's old forward-b was better move than the flying slam. Apparently a half-aware opponent can easily DI away from EVER being suicide-killed, and besides that it can't really be combo'd out of either. At least the old Klaw could set up for combos in certain situations. Doesn't sound like much of a buff if you asked me.

 

[Gojira]

Well to me it's hard to say. Bowser actually looks weaker to me and it pisses me off. Like... his fair was a great killer in melee. It looks so weak in brawl.

Alot of people are saying "dang this moves seems to be weaker" or "he is not as strong" People look at the average survival rate of characters. The average % of living is like 170. So lets stop saying this that and the other is weaker. In reality its not, everyone just lives much longer.

 

[PyroRyuken]

So you're saying that taking away what limited combo ability that Bowser used to have has made him... better? Can you give me any specifics on what aspects of the character you think have improved? I'm curious.

Also I was talking to a friend back home who owns Brawl and he said that after the novelty wears off you realize that Bowser's old forward-b was better move than the flying slam. Apparently a half-aware opponent can easily DI away from EVER being suicide-killed, and besides that it can't really be combo'd out of either. At least the old Klaw could set up for combos in certain situations. Doesn't sound like much of a buff if you asked me.

I love using Melee Bowser's F-B so when it got changed it made me a little sad.

 

[Catmunnies]

I'm just saying you don't know what you're talking about because you didn't play Bowser competitvely in melee .

1. I did play Bowser competitively. It would of made more sense to say that I didn't play Ness competitively.

2. I said to me Ness was the slowest character in melee; it's an opinion.

The fact that Ness' recovery lagged, his specials lagged, and it takes too long for him to reset himself after doing a move off the stage made him the only character I wouldn'd main, because of his speed.

 

[GimmeAnFSharp]

I feel Bowser is incredibly difficult to play as... he's much better than from Melee, yes. He doesn't feel as clunky, his lag is slightly reduced, and even his B moves got a boost (his Fire breath can actually help sometimes). Unfortunately, I feel similar heavy-hitters- namely Ike and Dedede- just have the one-up on him. Ike isn't a huge target and hits harder, and Dedede has a moveset that makes him uniquely difficult to approach due to his range and he can punish disproportionately to the target's mistake (you roll the wrong way and let yourself get grabbed, you'll get chain thrown).

Bowser just needs time for people to get over Ike and Dedede so people can really start figuring out what he might offer over the other two.

 

[GimmeAnFSharp]

Oh, and when I say he's gotten better since Melee, that discluding any advanced techs. I'm comparing a Bowser with a lack of advanced techs to a Bowser with a lack of advanced techs (or one that hasn't found them yet).

 

[ComradeCanada]

My win-lose ratio with Bowser has gone up since Brawl was released.
Bowser himself was improved slightly, but more importantly, the engine fits him better than melee.
Since most Bowser KOs, or at least the ones I got, where off the side or top, he took a while to KO people with. However, now that's where almost all KOs are.

Also, the Claw brings you with the ability to start over at any stock, and is a bit faster.

The downside is, his fair seems slightly slower and his Bowser Bomb is still a bad move.
Oh, and he bounces when you land with the Fortress.

EDIT: Oh, and his U-air seems easier to hit with.

 

[Gojira]

1. I did play Bowser competitively. It would of made more sense to say that I didn't play Ness competitively.

2. I said to me Ness was the slowest character in melee; it's an opinion.

The fact that Ness' recovery lagged, his specials lagged, and it takes too long for him to reset himself after doing a move off the stage made him the only character I wouldn'd main, because of his speed.

Excuse me but, ness has the second fastest overall attack speed in the game. Thats not my opnion thats a fact, and facts own opinions. He also has fast recovery time, and thats also a fact.

 

[ClarkJables]

dunno bout bowser bomb being bad, i short hop into that all the time and it knocks em back enough to give you time to recover from lag. then again, that move could be easily countered so i see your point

 

[ComradeCanada]

It's main use is for FFA from what I've seen.
Dair is a little weaker, but easier to steer and recover from. I'd suggest always using it instead.
It also seems to have a larger hitbox during descent, though this may be due to it being faster and my opponents not having time to counter it.

Of course descending Claw is still one of the best things to do while falling.

 

[Warriors]

definately better
most attacks are faster

 

[Catmunnies]

Excuse me but, ness has the second fastest overall attack speed in the game. Thats not my opnion thats a fact, and facts own opinions. He also has fast recovery time, and thats also a fact.

I'm not talking about his overall speed. I'm talking about this.

The fact that Ness's recovery lagged, his specials lagged, and it takes too long for him to reset himself after doing a move off the stage made him the only character I wouldn't main, because of his speed.

And by recovery I mean how long it takes for him to get back to the stage after being knocked back. Yeah, most of Ness's moves were faster than Bowser's, but I only see a character as being slow when their speed bothers me.

 

[bigj987]

well, bowser is my second main and i do believe he is generally better then his melee counterpart.
his moves have much larger hit boxs (i.g. foward smash). he may not be able to combo or be as fast as other characters but he makes up for it with his weight and power. and it does take considerablly more damage to knock out characters then in melee.

P.S. and of course the overall speed of the game has decreased due to the loss of advaced tactics, so this also helps bowser compete against characters that are overwhelmingly fast.

 

[Covenant]

About the fortress, it only bounces if you fail to land it before he flickers. You can actually get a zero recovery fortress by allowing yourself to fall just below the stage's lip and fortressing up onto it. If bowser is less than a 'foot' or so above the stage, when it ends he has no lag. That's certainly no secret, but it bears mention.

He's still bad at landing though. People hate Bowser and so constantly airjuggle him. Bowser's dair is merely okay, and certainly a dangerous move to use off the side of a stage (even if it spiked, it'd be dangerous to use), and if you do anything other than connect with the tip then you're going to get punished. The Bowser bomb is horrible as usual--like any move, it CAN be used to beat someone, and DOES give you the option of tossing something in, but the frames that bowser really needs the invincibility are on the way down, and he just doesn't have 'em. I don't know how many times I've buttbombed right into a sword and gone off the top. Shorthopping it is fine, but a shorthopped fair or B> is arguably better--the B> is disrupting and high damage without any lag, goes through shields, and basically unpunishable. And the fair is a possible KO, and fast, and longer ranged than the buttbomb.

Regardless, Bowser falls as slowly as anyone else, and this is a problem for him, especially with no high priority ways to get to the floor. There's almost nothing stopping someone who has you in the air from just constantly forcing you back into it, so you really need to fly off to the sides and then fortress back up onto the edge, which puts you at risk of a lot of edgehog strategies. Bowser isn't hard to spike.

However, Bowser is still better, he just has many of the old issues still in play, such as his a tendency to be turned into a hackey sack. This is sad, because Bowser has a lot of really great air moves, but I know I've always got trouble getting my feet back on the floor once I get airborne. It's even worse in FFA.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Bowser lost his Koopa Klaw, which affects his usage. Slow in speed and attacks equal trouble against the speedsters.

Bowser is basically dead weight, but that Giga Bowser Transformation makes up for his major flaws.

 

[KevinM]

Man that is completely wrong.

 

[Tristan Fattest of All Kids]

I wouldn't main him either way.

 

[Adel]

I didnt play with Bowza much in Melee but his Gold and Silver skins made me wanna play with him more. :o lol! I love the power of being Giga Bowza and watching ppl flee. So I've decided in Brawl I'd be a Bowza mainer. And you know what? I'm actually pretty good with him. So far he's undefeated online. XD

message me with a FC if you wanna take him on. We'll have a Bowza Battle. ^_^

 

[shboke]

you cant say for better or for worse, every character in melee kicks their *** in brawl, a pichu can beat any character from brawl, why? every character is better.

 

[Catmunnies]

you cant say for better or for worse, every character in melee kicks their *** in brawl, a pichu can beat any character from brawl, why? every character is better.

Somebody needs to get Koopa clowned.

 

[shboke]

its true but a wavedashing character that can L cancle and etc. against a character that cant and they will get creamed but i am trying to main bowser in brawl he seems like a character that would be fun to use

 

[Catmunnies]

It all depends on who's playing, and what character they pick. Besides, melee has been out for over 6 years. Brawl has been out for over 1 month. It not really fair to say that melee kick their *** in brawl this early.

 

[S_B]

Bowser is improved in Brawl because his moves come out quicker, he has better ground defense (via ftilt and dtilt) and his fire breath is actually useful and not just an invitation for whoever gets caught in it to DI up it and punish you.

And the koopa klaw will probably get him banned from tournament use, mark my words. It's easy to land, it comes out insanely quick and it goes right through an enemy shield, and it can be used to win a stock match at even stock!

Bowser can now also punch any explosive projectile out of the air with a ftilt, including any of Samus' missiles, charged shot, and Lucario's aura sphere. Bowser was meant to be played as a character which is immensely difficult to get off the ground. If someone does get you off the ground, use an air dodge and fast fall to get back on the ground. If someone comes into contact with you, either Up B them or shield grab them.

I noticed that, after using these techniques on my opponents, they started trying to stay as far from me as possible because they realized that coming into contact with me will result in being mauled.

I'm maining Bowser. I mained him in Melee even though I knew he was gimped and I'll be maining him in Brawl because the potential of his moveset gives him control over the game like no other character. There's nothing quite like an opponent being terrified of coming near you because they realize that if they're at even damage with you, you can take them over the edge without thinking twice about it.

THAT is where the mindgame starts but far from where it ends. I'm not going to pretend to be an expert, but the potential I've seen out of the improved Bowser has already impressed me immensely.

 

[themutt22]

koopa claw wont be banned, bowser isnt overpowered enough for that to push him over the edge. If fox could do all sorts of insane shining things in melee, and dedede is allowed to chaingrab, i am sure bowser will get to keep his claw. No need to worry .