Bowser Worse or better?

[CraigUK37]

Not many people can use bowser to a very high standard and those who do usual the use of the glitches AKA advanced techniques.

With most, if not all of the ones from melee have been removed how will bowser shape up?

Slower, having to deal with move lag. Are the people who use him professional going to stick with him or move onto someone else?

Cheers :D


_______________

Edit.

Thanks people.
It would seem they have reduced bowsers lag, acording to what people have told me. I guess we will have to wait and see how he turns out.

 

[residentevilrulz]

This worries me in a sense.. The only move I've noticed of his that has considerable lag is the back air.. which I primarily only use for edge gaurding. But everything else about him has been buffed. I watched a vid of him vs ROB online and I was pretty impressed. I will be sticking with Bowser for sure, I have been maining him for the last 5 years and I'm not about to stop now. If I find that vid I'll post it here

EDIT

I found it. It is a bit laggy since it's online, but if you look at this Bowser compared to melee, he has been noticeably improved in the speed department while remaining the same/maybe more powerful than he was in melee. Either way, I love him. BEWARE, there is a screen glitch thingy like halfway through the vid but it goes away

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcozKvYkN3c

 

[Jellybelly]

If Bowser has recieved super armour (Less flinching when attacked) Then he'll have a noticeable improvement.

 

[Bowserlick]

Bowser looks like he got the improvements he needed. His fair is even faster, which allows him to keep those air combos away from his big frame. And his fire is a nice trap to rack damage, stall opponents, bring them in for the kill, ect. The Koopa Klaw also is a nice combo breaker.

 

[Sonic_Wolf]

who ever said he was slower is is much faster and is stronger

 

[kunai_abuser]

who ever said he was slower is is much faster and is stronger

err.... What?

 

[JFox]

"Glitches AKA advanced techniques" gave every character some kind of movement speed and aerial speed. Now that all that is gone for every character, its still a level playing field. And the fact that those techniques (wavedashing and l cancelling) helped bowser probably less than almost any other character, actually makes a lack of those "glitches" a gain for bowser players.

Gimpyfish played bowser and loved the new one. I think bowser will certainly move up in tiers.

 

[ComradeCanada]

Not to mention the new pimp outfit.

 

[Layupfreak]

no bowser is better in Brawl.

 

[draigaran]

One of the guys in the General Discussion thread says Bowser is worse (he has the game and says he's pro), but Gimpy says Bowser is much better. To be honest I'd take Gimpy's word over the other dude.

 

[RedMage8BT]

Everyone has to deal with move lag now... so, it's balanced. When you L-cancelled Roy's moves, they still weren't faster than Marth's L-cancelled moves. Now, when you don't (well, you can't) L-cancel on either move, Marth is still faster. See how that works? It just balanced it out for people who can't/don't (for some strange reason) L-cancel.

 

[Inferno_blaze]

no bowser is better in Brawl.

Punctuation, the sign of a genius.

 

[UrajKingofDarkness]

This is ridiculous, the game's not even out and we're already assuming we knowexactly how every character is going to play and what "tier" they are based off of videos we've watched.

First off, the Topic Creator referred to L-canceling as a glitch...that should tip you off about his mindset of the game in the first place, because by his logic the entire game of competitive Melee is a huge glitchfest then.

Second, IT'S BEEN THREE, FREAKING, DAYS PEOPLE. Guess who was top tier at the beginning of Melee's lifecycle? ROY. There ARE no Brawl pros yet, only Melee pros who attempt to play Brawl in a similar fashion. I assure you that Street Fighter 3 pros did not just move over from Street Fighter 2 on day one and immediately understand everything.

So, to put it again, we hardly know anything about the game in terms of advanced mechanics, Melee pros do notequal Brawl pros, and WAIT FOR THE GAME TO COME OUT.

By the way, I am a Bowser main in Melee who isn't too shabby with him, but I'm telling you now I don't assume at all that he'll play the same in Brawl. If you're hoping your main from Melee WILL be the same, you better set yourself up for disappointment.

 

[CraigUK37]

lucky i dont have a main the. I you are right, i dont play competative, mainly because i wasnt even botherd much about melee past a casual game to play with my chums.
I am a n00b when it gets right down to it. I have yet to pick a favourite from brawl due to the fact ive never played it. What i refer to as glitches are things not intended to be in the game, so if they are unable to be used in brawl then yes, those of the things im calling glitches. From a casual view point, as much as learning these would definetly improve my game, i dont need to do it to beat the people I play.

Though I can say with the online feature in Brawl and lack of 'techniques' currently, i might consider competative play with brawl, learning any new advanced techniques as they come along, if they come a lot.

 

[Rsflone]

sorry to burst your bubble but l canceling isn't a glitch they put it in the original and it canceled all lag so in melee they only made it cancel half the lag thus proving it was as you say "intended" and in brawl they took it out. Also brawl does not lack advance techs we just dont know them yet we only know the returning was from melee and to be on topic bowser has gained speed and has very little lag to his moves now so I say definitly better we will have to wait and find out

 

[mickomoo]

I'm starting to use bowser more in melee, but seeing a vid of him in brawl, it seems that his whirling fortress has been nerfed. IIRC, it was slower, and most importantly there was lag when he hit the ground (he bounces when he lands after using that move) allowing his opponent to strike him.

 

[00Sn8k]

The only thing I can say to that is wait till the game comes and see for yourself.
Though with a visual perspective at hand, it looks more like he got better, let alone worse.

 

[omegablackmage]

i would say i like the new bowser. they made him a decent amount faster and he's just as strong, the sweetspotting up b makes him more useful recovery wise and his tilts are stronger. Mostly all the changes that they have made i like a lot.

 

[SothE700k]

He got faster, and gained kill moves. Plus his final smash. Brawl's Bowser is better, Nuff said.

 

[yolky]

What's sad is this arguement is over a game most people have yet to play...just chill out and wait untill ya'll play to base opinions...

 

[ynnek123]

LOL WTF is up with all ppl who joind feb 2008 in this topic?
They are right though, we haven't played the game yet, and in melee it also took a few years untill the first real tier list was there...You can't expect to find every single "glitch" in a few days!!!

 

[Toastmeister]

It'd take some supreme technique to make Bowser any worse than he was in Melee.

He couldn't have been more frustrating if he was Icicle Mountain.

 

[WhiteDragon]

Second, IT'S BEEN THREE, FREAKING, DAYS PEOPLE. Guess who was top tier at the beginning of Melee's lifecycle? ROY.

You don't by chance know where I could find a list of said tier-list, do you? I'm curious now XD

 

[SilentDrifterZ]

Me too.

Anyway, if you want count Bowsercide as an improvement, I guess he's gotten better (and goofier, with his spinning cartwheel jump move thing)

 

[shockfrost]

+ Bowser's Flame breath is faster moving when shot and has a bigger range.
This will make it a more effective playingfield - leveler.

+ Bowser can now DI when launching the Bowser Bomb(Down+B) instead of stopping cold.
This may help to salvage the move and turn it into more of a mindgame instead of a no-touchy.

+ Bowser's Shield covers him better now.
Not as much foot-clipping. Good news.

+ The Koopa Klaw can be steered for maximum effectiveness. I have not seen evidence on whether it can grab through shields in the air. If it can, then it appears the rare and ubiquitous Aerial Bowser attack style will be retained.

+ Overall a lot of Bowser's moves have had their attack speed increased. A few recovery times have possibly been increased (I would have to feel it to know for sure)

+ It appears that some of the flinching has been reduced on Bowser. Bowser was always kinda flinchy in Melee, which opened him up to big combos. Less flinch would ensure a damage trade in a direct confrontation -- one that Bowser would be well equipped to win.

The fact that Ultra-High Level Play advantages have been removed, and replaced with Mid-to-High level advantages, means Bowser just got a lot more accessible and more players will be able to come to grips with his ability.

As a result I believe he has probably gained Tier from these changes.

 

[TakDragon7]

I think that he had gotten better, which is a good thing. =D

 

[clayfighter0]

Lets just hope bowser not as worse they possibly couldnt make him worse from melee he was such a fatty mcgee!!! all they have left to do with him is make him a little better but im not a bowser fan he's horrible in my eyes but good luck to all u bowser fans!!!

 

[Jellybelly]

Anyone here seen gimpys battles with peach?

Result of match:

Spoiler

Bowser wins

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpCdCmlWqWs

Result of match:

Spoiler

Bowser loses

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUDhd3xAzuM

Result of match:

Spoiler

Bowser wins

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VKMaEqMqrw

Some really good matches there. Alot better than seeing another Fox v Marth snorefest.

 

[shockfrost]

Anyone here seen gimpys battles with peach?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VKMaEqMqrw

Some really good matches there. Alot better than seeing another Fox v Marth snorefest.

00:27 seconds.

Bowser jumps at Peach.
Peach shields.
Bowser air-KoopaKlaws through the shield and punishes.

Aerial Bowser is a Go-Go.


Comments on the fights with Peach:
Gimpy uses Aerial/Turtle Hybrid very effectively, alternating between shield and Whirling Fortress to make attacking expensive when wounded and butting heads when generally healthy. Intentionally or not, he relied on the collision principle, doing a lot of damage swap and getting the better end of it for the most part.

I would say he was running the risk of predictability by the end of the fight, and his moves were exhausting some from overuse (less damage, less distance) but his tactics were pretty solid and they were working, so no sense in changing them.

Round 3, I was almost disappointed he didn't use the narrow corridors of that haunted house for some easy Firebreath damage. It was begging to happen. Also, around 3:00 would have been a nice time for a D-tilt A, to punt Peach out. Gimpy doing a great job hanging in there with heavy damage though.

3:47 Peach is at 48% and Bowser around 200%.
Then a throw, Forward, Up, and Down smash.
3:57, applause as she rockets away at 118%.

Ate her for Breakfast with 215%, and finished with one huge Headbutt. Way to be the Wrecking Ball.

And slightly off topic.
Gimpy vs. Morb R1, Bowser / Luigi
1:23, Bowser scores the first KO at 163%. Hoo-rah, weight. Too bad he didn't get any free damage before getting KOed. Myself, it would have been Firebreath time =P

And I loved your finish against DEHF. Full forward Smash headbutt for the win.

 

[Hydde]

Now that you are analyzing videos.......... what do you think about the fight between gimpy and that pit called defh?.

I saw bowser struggling in that fight because of pit´s quick attacks. Do you think that bowser will continue struggling against fast hitters?.

In that series of fights bowser founf it very difficult to kill pit, even when he was in very high %!.

 

[residentevilrulz]

Well to me it's hard to say. Bowser actually looks weaker to me and it pisses me off. Like... his fair was a great killer in melee. It looks so weak in brawl. Maybe I'm wrong. Idk. But I think the thing with Pit is you have to chase after him while he's out of the stage and finish him off so he can't recover.

 

[WastingPenguins]

And the fact that those techniques (wavedashing and l cancelling) helped bowser probably less than almost any other character, actually makes a lack of those "glitches" a gain for bowser players.
.

This is the falsest **** I've ever seen, ever. Are you serious? You think the one of the LAGGIEST characters in Melee benefited the LEAST from lag-canceling?

 

[Hydde]

Well to me it's hard to say. Bowser actually looks weaker to me and it pisses me off. Like... his fair was a great killer in melee. It looks so weak in brawl. Maybe I'm wrong. Idk. But I think the thing with Pit is you have to chase after him while he's out of the stage and finish him off so he can't recover.

well but even with brawl floatiness... bowser cant afford to go flying out there chasing flyers like him.

IMO bowser should be stronger, to balance out thingsa like that. Anyways the fight was pretty even.,, i just that i think bowser should have killed him in much earlier %.

Lets hope this will not be one of those imbalances... I would like to see bowser ruling-.

 

[jdub03]

"Glitches AKA advanced techniques" gave every character some kind of movement speed and aerial speed. Now that all that is gone for every character, its still a level playing field. And the fact that those techniques (wavedashing and l cancelling) helped bowser probably less than almost any other character, actually makes a lack of those "glitches" a gain for bowser players.

Gimpyfish played bowser and loved the new one. I think bowser will certainly move up in tiers.

Your pretty clueless about bowser play aren't you. L-canceling was the only thing that allowed bowser to compete competitively. L-canceling is more effective for bowser then any other character. You were right about wavedashing though.

 

[GoodMornEvery1]

absolutely better. i had a hard time with him at lv 9

 

[EazyP]

He is better in Brawl, but I just don't like him in Brawl. Not sure why, something isn't clicking like it does oh so well in Melee

 

[Parassita]

He was never all that good in my opinion... ever. But he seems to be better in Brawl.

 

[residentevilrulz]

EazyP, while I have yet to play brawl, I know what you mean. To me, it's the way he sounds. He sounds like a dog or something. I think he sounds so great in melee. The only sound I really like about him in Brawl is when he gets killed vertically and sounds like a screaming dinosaur. It's kick ***. As far as people talking about how wavedashing wasn't useful with him, I disagree. It's very useful. For me anyhow

 

[MagnuM]

In a preliminary judgment, I would say that Bowser looks slightly better. He certainly does sound like a dog, and it's really weird. I liked his Melee sounds, they were pretty much perfect. Bowser gets enough dog references as it is! XD

 

[ZodiacDragon1014]

Judging from the videos I've seen on Bowser, it looks to me like he's received considerable improvement from Melee. It's for this reason that I'm really looking forward to playing as Bowser in Brawl. Bowser's my absolute favorite Mario character, so I need to play as him.