Bowser the second least popular character?

[Nitros14]

So according to the poll in General Brawl Discussion Bowser is the second least popular character, ahead of only Jigglypuff.

Why? It's especially odd he's considerably less popular than characters like Ganondorf. He's Lord Bowser dammit.

I mean he did lose the biting from Melee, that's a serious loss to his fun factor but still.

 

[Sosuke]

It doesn't matter. It's better like this.

 

[Nitros14]

It doesn't matter. It's better like this.

Well it is kind of nice to play a character no one has any practice against.

 

[Admiral Pit]

Even though I'd love Bowser to be popular, if someone actually beats my Pit (normally from spammers), then bringing my Bowser out would completely throw them off since you dont see many Bowsers lately.
I suppose that means the less a char is being used, the harder it is for an opponent to really beat them since you dont see them often. Basically if a player doesnt have much experience with Bowsers since he/she does not see many of them like you'd see a MK, then he/she would have problems because they rarely get to see a Bowser's playstyle.
I suppose we Bowsers can use that to our advantage, for it worked for me a lot of times before.

 

[Amide]

It's true. Maybe it's because of the learning curve. Also, people don't like Bowser.

One thing that I always liked about Bowser is that he has a neutral matchup with Meta Knight.

 

[Sosuke]

Well it is kind of nice to play a character no one has any practice against.

Exactly.
And he wont be overused.

 

[Demenise]

It's true. Maybe it's because of the learning curve. Also, people don't like Bowser.

One thing that I always liked about Bowser is that he has a neutral matchup with Meta Knight.

Is the learning curve for Bowser really that high?

And people just don't main him because they think that Meta Knight and Bowser being neutral is a lie.

 

[DiasFlac]

Even though I'd love Bowser to be popular, if someone actually beats my Pit (normally from spammers), then bringing my Bowser out would completely throw them off since you dont see many Bowsers lately.
I suppose that means the less a char is being used, the harder it is for an opponent to really beat them since you dont see them often. Basically if a player doesnt have much experience with Bowsers since he/she does not see many of them like you'd see a MK, then he/she would have problems because they rarely get to see a Bowser's playstyle.
I suppose we Bowsers can use that to our advantage, for it worked for me a lot of times before.

but Pit is the perfect spamming character. (Arrow Spam,Forward B spam, Standard A spam.)


I like how Bowser isn't popular. It would be lame doing a ditto every other brawl.

(I'm sure Snake,Falco and Metaknight players get that often)

 

[Blistering Speed]

Na, Falco isn't that popular yet anywhere but Texas (where everyone wants to be like Sethlon) XD

 

[DiasFlac]

Na, Falco isn't that popular yet anywhere but Texas (where everyone wants to be like Sethlon) XD

I see a lot of Falco's myself. Nothing says easy win like Chain grab to spike off cliff.

 

[Hyrus]

I hope I don't step on any rabid fanboy's toes, but Bowser is garbage.

He's massive.

For a characteristic that would be intimidating in most games, a giant character is easy to hit with just about anything in Smash Bros. It's even worse in teams or FFA battles where someone sent flying can easily peg Bowser and send him with. They don't call him a punching bag for nothing.

When Bowser dodges, whatever attack or projectile coming at him has about twice the distance to go through him before his invincibility frames end. On the ground, Bowser can dodge Link's down air and still get hit before Link reaches the ground.

Rolling behind Bowser gives his opponent a big advantage. Because of his massive width, an opponent will almost always be in striking (or even grabbing) range of Bowser. If it were Pikachu being rolled through, its opponent may have to close ground to follow up with a hit.

Bowser's attacks are modest at best. His fire breath is easy to escape and difficult to space effectively. His forward tilt has enough lag to be hopped over, to which Bowser is a sitting duck with both of his up tilt and smash only covering ground above (and behind) him. Fortress can help, but it's not great by any means. His down tilt actually makes him wider and hardly any shorter. If Bowser goes to the air, an opponent is expecting the side B and his aerials are pretty laggy.

The irony here, is that if you look at Ike or DeDeDe, both of these characters have slow, heavy hitting attacks. And yet they have what Bowser seems to lack - some seriously huge hitboxes. Donkey Kong's down smash hits on the sides and even above him!

And of course, his weight doesn't help much at all. 1) He's easy to hit 2) he's easy to juggle. The fact that his dodging and air game is lackluster only makes it worse when trying to get back to the ground.

===

You can play him and have fun with him, but he just isn't as good as other characters.

 

[Admiral Pit]

I see a lot of Falco's myself. Nothing says easy win like Chain grab to spike off cliff.

I consider that cheap, thus making Falco cheap. They say Zelda can escape from it...

And dont worry, my Pit isnt one of those typical spammers you'd find from a dark cloud of noobishness.
Actually I usually send Bowser before I send Pit, but it all depends on the opponent, and the lag status.

"I still hate you Falco, you annoying bird. I'd tell Cook Kirby and Bowser to make some space bird soup, but noobs use items!"
My random quote.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

*Lots of text*

You must play against some absolute rubbish Bowsers. Once I get my Wii fixed, I'll show you how Bowser's meant to be played.

 

[KevinM]

I consider that cheap, thus making Falco cheap. They say Zelda can escape from it...

And dont worry, my Pit isnt one of those typical spammers you'd find from a dark cloud of noobishness.
Actually I usually send Bowser before I send Pit, but it all depends on the opponent, and the lag status.

"I still hate you Falco, you annoying bird. I'd tell Cook Kirby and Bowser to make some space bird soup, but noobs use items!"
My random quote.

Nothing is cheap.

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

You must play against some absolute rubbish Bowsers. Once I get my Wii fixed, I'll show you how Bowser's meant to be played.

Even if he played against amazing Bowsers, it doesn't make Bowser a smaller target. He's still huge, with small hitboxes compared to his size. That being said, Bowser is still a better character than Captain Falcon or Jigglypuff.

Nothing is cheap.

Penny candy is pretty cheap.

 

[GimmeAnFSharp]

Is the learning curve for Bowser really that high?

And people just don't main him because they think that Meta Knight and Bowser being neutral is a lie.

He's like a sluggish DK whose timing needs to be much more exact.

I know that's a horrible comparison, but that's more in regards to the learning curve than the actual playstyle. Bowser doesn't really play like any other character, while everyone else plays VERY similarly.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

Even if he played against amazing Bowsers, it doesn't make Bowser a smaller target. He's still huge, with small hitboxes compared to his size. That being said, Bowser is still a better character than Captain Falcon or Jigglypuff.

That's true. But Bowser isn't as bad as he was made out to be in that post, he's still better than quite alot of characters in Brawl. He's about Mid-Tier maybe.

 

[DiasFlac]

Even if he played against amazing Bowsers, it doesn't make Bowser a smaller target. He's still huge, with small hitboxes compared to his size. That being said, Bowser is still a better character than Captain Falcon or Jigglypuff.



Penny candy is pretty cheap.

Jigglypuff beats Bowser but this doesn't mean Bowser can't beat Jigglypuff (it'll just be tougher for you to win)

and nothing is cheap.

 

[Hyrus]

Nothing is cheap.

Highly off topic.

That's true. But Bowser isn't as bad as he was made out to be in that post, he's still better than quite a lot of characters in Brawl.

You can still play him and beat people with him, but on the scale of things, i'd still say he sucks. The immense negativity is because I like Bowser and it just seems like someone was asleep during the game's numerous delays and didn't bother thoroughly testing half the crap in the game.

and nothing is cheap.

Not even cheating! Just don't get caught.

 

[KevinM]

It's not off topic when the person I quote is talking about something being cheap and I retort nothing is cheap.

If you ask me how the weather is.. and I say.. it's sunny out.. am I off topic?

 

[Mega-Japan]

Ganondorf is a lot more cooler than Bowser is, not to mention he has the... "physics" >.<

 

[Dastrn]

I hope I don't step on any rabid fanboy's toes, but Bowser is garbage.

He's massive.

For a characteristic that would be intimidating in most games, a giant character is easy to hit with just about anything in Smash Bros. It's even worse in teams or FFA battles where someone sent flying can easily peg Bowser and send him with. They don't call him a punching bag for nothing.

When Bowser dodges, whatever attack or projectile coming at him has about twice the distance to go through him before his invincibility frames end. On the ground, Bowser can dodge Link's down air and still get hit before Link reaches the ground.

Rolling behind Bowser gives his opponent a big advantage. Because of his massive width, an opponent will almost always be in striking (or even grabbing) range of Bowser. If it were Pikachu being rolled through, its opponent may have to close ground to follow up with a hit.

Bowser's attacks are modest at best. His fire breath is easy to escape and difficult to space effectively. His forward tilt has enough lag to be hopped over, to which Bowser is a sitting duck with both of his up tilt and smash only covering ground above (and behind) him. Fortress can help, but it's not great by any means. His down tilt actually makes him wider and hardly any shorter. If Bowser goes to the air, an opponent is expecting the side B and his aerials are pretty laggy.

The irony here, is that if you look at Ike or DeDeDe, both of these characters have slow, heavy hitting attacks. And yet they have what Bowser seems to lack - some seriously huge hitboxes. Donkey Kong's down smash hits on the sides and even above him!

And of course, his weight doesn't help much at all. 1) He's easy to hit 2) he's easy to juggle. The fact that his dodging and air game is lackluster only makes it worse when trying to get back to the ground.

===

You can play him and have fun with him, but he just isn't as good as other characters.

this

I play Bowser A LOT, but come on guys. He's bad.

Admit it. You know he's bad.

 

[Flayl]

Easiest character to juggle in the game.

 

[J0RDY]

Na, Falco isn't that popular yet anywhere but Texas (where everyone wants to be like Sethlon) XD

I'm from England, and Falco's my main just because of Seth lol

 

[gorgon.]

I love Bowser. He's badass.

But he sucks. No denying that.

So what?

 

[Zhilo]

I wish Bowser has some large hitboxes to go with his large frame. It is undeniable that the lack of a ridiculous disjointed long attack makes it hard to keep up the pace with DDD and Ike.

I also miss the Klaw.

 

[DTKPch]

Yeah, Bowser is pretty bad. Every other character can punish Marth's fair spamming, but my Bowser has some major issues.

Does anyone else have problems with SHDF from Marth?

 

[brod1986]

I havnt come accross anyone that plays as bowser online...are there any!? its a shame that he too slow. But we'd all have a crying fit if he was as fast a pica!

 

[Blistering Speed]

I'm from England, and Falco's my main just because of Seth lol

Omg, another English Falco! And you have the same join date as me! If you have blue eyes, then we were seperated at birth.

 

[salaboB]

Rolling behind Bowser gives his opponent a big advantage. Because of his massive width, an opponent will almost always be in striking (or even grabbing) range of Bowser. If it were Pikachu being rolled through, its opponent may have to close ground to follow up with a hit.

This example is the most clear of what I'm getting at, but basically you've taken all of the negatives of Bowser without looking at when they might be useful.

Why is this not a pure disadvantage? Because Bowser's downsmash is as wide as he is, lasts a while, and will quite easily catch most people trying to roll around behind him. So them rolling and standing up next to Bowser due to his size can actually be a disadvantage for Bowser's opponent.

 

[Dyxnar14]

True Bowser is still better then Capt. Falcon, but I can't see how he's better then jigglypuff other then the weight class

 

[Hyrus]

(Bowser's size) Why is this not a pure disadvantage? Because Bowser's downsmash is as wide as he is, lasts a while, and will quite easily catch most people trying to roll around behind him. So them rolling and standing up next to Bowser due to his size can actually be a disadvantage for Bowser's opponent.

I think I can best disprove this with an illustration.

For our purposes, the blue dotted line shows the character's collision area. (note, all measurments are crude and quickly rendered.)

On the left, Link's green box shows the rough area his down smash hits, once in front and a second time behind. Link's up smash hits three times all above and to the sides of him, and hits close enough to the ground to hit rollers as well (usually larger characters, Mario and above). It should also be noted that both of Link's attacks are disjointed, and will seldom get beat out.

On the right, Bowser's green box shows his down smash. While multihit, it is not disjointed and doesn't really go out very far (if at all) from his collision zone. It is worth noting that Bowser's collision shrinks, as shown by the purple dotted line, during his down smash... but his width is generally the same. I didn't bother with Bowser's up smash since it generally hits only tall characters and those above him.

But down smash (for both characters) takes time. Bowser is better off using up B out of shield to hit away a roller since it is so much faster and easier to do. Fortress can also travel into an opponent (thus increasing it's range, technically), but it's damage drops from 16 at point blank to 5 at long range, and also leaves you exposed.

But no, Bowser's hitbox size is pretty disproportionate to how large he his.

 

[__V]

I can sum up Bowser in a single sentence: Bowser is a turtle.

Wow, no walls of text. =O

 

[GenoGar]

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=175338

That's something to think about when playing Bowser. I haven't seen an "Offensive" Bowser win effectively.

[Wall of Text]

Bowser is just not as appealing to many people. In all the games he's in, he's probably the least liked character or most 'made fun of' character. I mean, how many people do you know "Main" Bowser in 'Mario Kart'? You can insert any other game and the message is still the same.

In the last game SSBM, it was considered unusual to play as Bowser. People usually played to screw around. I don't think Bowser translated well into Brawl simply because he never had a large fan base.

I think Bowser's only claim fame is in the Mario RPG's including Seven Stars, Paper Mario Series, and the Mario & Luigi series where he actually has a personality and 'traits'.

-

In Brawl... yeah, he isn't good. But he isn't bad though.

IMO if Sakurai or whoever the hell thought up the gameplay concept for Bowser just gave FREAKING SUPER ARMOR FRAMES to Bowser, he'd be one complete notch better. For the biggest, heaviest, and brawniest character, they gave him ZERO super armor frames. The part of Bowser's flawed body concept is his size and how vunerable he is. In most games, it was a good attribute to have a large size, but it didn't translate well into Smash./rant

Weeks before Brawl came out, I was hoping his Shell could be used like Link's Shield sort of thing. It makes sense...


I have a question though... why the heck is Bowser more popular than Jigglypuff? All I heard near the end of Melee was "Mang0 Combo" and "NEW KING NAIR COMBO".

Is Jiggly really that bad?


[/Wall of Text]

 

[Genetic]

Hmm, I think that Jiggly got buffed a little, and her wall of pain seems more effective when the game is slowed down.

I play MK and Zelda, but I enjoy Bowser as a novelty character as well. His Fair was buffed considerably, and his Down Smash is just amazing against someone who rolls around like a little ball. I guess it's the psychological factor that keeps people away from Bowzer!

 

[Flayl]

His Fair was nerfed.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

JP popularity went down because rest was nerfed almost to oblivion since drill rest is like the only combo to it and even then very very situational, foatier gameplay means even Bowser can come up and say hi to JP, MK, and JP was never that popular even in Melee, most of her players quit her, like Samus.

As for Bower him and Ganon are lacking in SA. Ganon has 1 but how is it useful in 1 vs 1? not very. the biting is gone, even though Bowsercide is fun, but Bowser is really lacking in range.