Bowser Patch 1.14 changes

Zapp Branniglenn

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Dash Attack Damage increase
- Early hit 10% to 12%
- Late hit 8% to 10%

Uthrow knockback growth increase
- 155 to 180

Flying Slam grab hitbox size increase on the air and ground. Here's a visual example of the new horizontal range.

Will update when more concrete information is known. I can personally confirm endlag/landing lag on all of Bowser's moves has not changed.

For those wondering strictly about the Uthrow to Uair range. Yes, you can kill earlier with it, and yes the range at which Uair true combos has shrunken overall to allow more escapes
 
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Fanttum

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Zapp Branniglenn Zapp Branniglenn can you show us some proof of the up throw stuff?
I did some minimal testing in training mode and I was still killing cloud with true combos in similar ranges if not higher honestly.
 

GerudoKong

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I agree nair seems somewhat faster, but I'm finding that ftilt doesn't kill as early
 

Constadin

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For those wondering strictly about the Uthrow to Uair range. Yes, you can kill earlier with it, and yes the range at which Uair true combos has shrunken overall to allow more escapes
What do you mean you can kill earlier with it? The Knockback of the upthrow got increased not from uair, so how can you kill earlier? Is it because you upair them closer to the vertical blastzone with the change?
 

arcticfox_14

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Dash Attack Damage increase
- Early hit 10% to 12%
- Late hit 8% to 10%

Uthrow knockback increase
- numbers currently unknown, but the change is confirmed.

Will update when more concrete information is known. I can personally confirm endlag/landing lag on all of Bowser's moves has not changed.

For those wondering strictly about the Uthrow to Uair range. Yes, you can kill earlier with it, and yes the range at which Uair true combos has shrunken overall to allow more escapes
Thank GOD. When I read the official thread which just stated "no longer kills after ~100%" I about had a heart attack. Glad you posted clearer information here. Sounds like we just need new follow-up values. :)
 

pitfall356

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Nah, this seem to be it. I don't think we have anything else. Here's Bowser, 1.1.4. Possibly the final iteration of him, too.
 

Greward

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Dash attack buff is pretty nice, I always wanted that. Just 10% dmg felt too weak.

I really want to know how legit our throw combos are now. I hope it's not a direct nerf.
 

constable lemon

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Up throw seems to knock most characters up farther than before. Up throw to up tilt straight up whiffs against Kirby in training mode. The timing for the up air confirm feels a lot tighter especially at kill %s. It's definitely still possible on most characters but it requires more testing, especially on floaties like Luigi who it was already hard to get with. It's totally still free against fast fallers like captain falcon though.
 

pitfall356

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Window for landing it is smaller, and the timing is stricter. Generally harder to get that kill with uthrow uair. I'd call it a direct nerf, as we can't rack up % as fast with uthrow nair in mid-high %, as well as the difficulty spike for the confirm and less opportunity to seal stocks.
 

BarSoapSoup

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Window for landing it is smaller, and the timing is stricter. Generally harder to get that kill with uthrow uair. I'd call it a direct nerf, as we can't rack up % as fast with uthrow nair in mid-high %, as well as the difficulty spike for the confirm and less opportunity to seal stocks.
A direct nerf? But did we really need it? ;(
It might kill some characters earlier. Perhaps Nintendo want it to be a true combo move that racks damage up faster but does not necessarily kill always.
 

Xandercosm

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Zapp Branniglenn Zapp Branniglenn

How badly do you think the nerf too Koo-Pah effects Bowser? Do you think there are anything we can do to make up for if?
My guess is that we just have to be more precise now. The percent range is much smaller so now it's kind of similar to DK's Ding Dong. Luckily, though, we could usually kill mid and lightweights with it before 100%. So all this means is that we have to be less sloppy and more focused.
 

wizrad

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It's not like we lost a kill option. In fact, if you play your cards right, you'll be getting the same kill earlier. It's a nerf, but it's also a new opportunity.
 

TehMud

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Well on the bright side, around 100% the majority of Bowser's moves will KO. Still though of all the characters to nerf.

Well I say nerf, but we'll need more data on kill percents for uair now. If the knockback does allow for earlier kill on some chars then okay.
 

Dε√ilj∦o

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Lmao Jigglypuff got absolutely nothing, right.

Im saddenned by what happenned. Being able to confirm our kills with Uthrow Uair was so satisfying and Bowser felt different. Welp, might spend a lot of time in the lab tonight with every character to see how it is now.
Wish Dash attack had a consistent knockback increase too.
 
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BarSoapSoup

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Lmao Jigglypuff got absolutely nothing, right.

Im saddenned by what happenned. Being able to confirm our kills with Uthrow Uair was so satisfying and Bowser felt different. Welp, might spend a lot of time in the lab tonight with every character to see how it is now.
Wish Dash attack had a consistent knockback increase too.
My only question is....why dash attack? It's not like Bowser uses it all that often anyways .-.

EDIT: Honestly I think it's just a bone thrown at us to make sure we have something 'good' to talk about. If we had less endlag on fire breath though...that might've been a fair trade. In any case, Bowser might remain this way for the rest of the games development. Time to get labbing.
 
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SafCar

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Lmao at the "no kill confirm past 100". In a ditto match it's confirmed at 104-108. Stricter, but not removed entirely.

After some testing in the lab, Mario and Fox die to it at ~95%, Jiggs at ~75%, and DDD at 120~135%. I would say that Bowser would be better as a heavyweight counter pick given how much leeway he has on DDD.

Honestly, I feel that this will be better in the long run since it means the new Bowser mains need to learn how everything else in his arsenal works.

Still, GG Wrestlemania Bowser, may we meet again when your Koopa Slam gets fixed.
 

TTTTTsd

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Your kill combo now works like 20% earlier than it did before (at like 90-95 on MARIO, that's amazing!).

Granted it's more specific but now it's on the same tighter percent window that DK's has.
 

Big Sean

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Is this what if feels like to get a nerf? Random people like TTTTTsd TTTTTsd that don't play Bowser come into the forum to tell us how it is?
 

BarSoapSoup

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Is this what if feels like to get a nerf? Random people like TTTTTsd TTTTTsd that don't play Bowser come into the forum to tell us how it is?
Just because he doesn't play Bowser doesn't mean he hasn't had any experience at all with him. He probably has fought several Bowsers, so he has some idea of what he's saying.
 

TTTTTsd

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I'll keep my positivity to myself next time if I'm just going to get talked to like that. I was trying to help and be encouraging about info and stuff that I found but, k.
 
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Zapp Branniglenn

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I'll keep my positivity to myself next time if I'm just going to get talked to like that. I was trying to help and be encouraging about info and stuff that I found but, k.
Apologies from the Bowser Boards. It still hasn't even been 24 hours since our first nerf, and there's five stages to grief.

Zapp Branniglenn Zapp Branniglenn

How badly do you think the nerf too Koo-Pah effects Bowser? Do you think there are anything we can do to make up for if?
I think it definitely hinders us. As in, we should be dropped a place or two on a tier list. But we can still wrack up massive damage off grabs, we can Bair to set up edgeguard scenarios, Dair at the ledge, Platform mixups where they have to burn double jump to escape our amazing options for covering all tech possibilities on them from below, so much potential. These are the things we were dreaming of when we asked for a combo throw, and for most people - particularly those that did not play Bowser - it was all overshadowed by the Uair followup. And you can still do all of it, just at sooner points. Smaller ranges for killing with Uair now makes stage picks and flying slam more relevant. If you're playing on Battlefield or Dreamland, the top platform will allow you to kill with Side B at ranges where Uair would not reach.

Not being able to kill from an Uthrow at very high percents doesn't really worry me as a Bowser player, because he can kill with virtually any move, the knockback stats and damage are just that high. Plus, I look forward to more Bowsers attempting to bait air dodges for once. Or going for offstage edgeguards, which was also an area of our game that was improved in 1.13, but overshadowed by Uthrow to Uair. It all puts player skill back at the front again.
 

-Kagato-

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Remember, this is Bowser. After 100%, he can kill easily with most anything else. Don't forget that other grab you have called the Flying Slam. Yes, the window and timing is tighter, but if you master it then you'll find killing with Bowser is actually easier than before. And besides, it's not like you're building up less damage. U-throw into n-air is still a thing.

And on the subject of changes, I can confirm that when it comes to last stock Bowsercide, there is no stage-dependency anymore. Bowser dies first every time all the time. So Sakurai's intentions are finally clear. Shame, but at least Flying Slam control has been buffed so much that it's hardly a liability to throw out in a match anymore. And with a new playground full of huge floating platforms that is Umbral Clocktower... well, come on and slam and welcome to the jam.
 

Zapp Branniglenn

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And on the subject of changes, I can confirm that when it comes to last stock Bowsercide, there is no stage-dependency anymore. Bowser dies first every time all the time.
We're still getting sudden death results on a variety of stages. Bowsercide remains consistently inconsistent.
 

LRodC

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Do you guys think this change is major for Bowser's viability, or just an adjustment that players will have to adapt to?
 

Dε√ilj∦o

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To be honest, as it already been said, what it really does is make Bowser mains themselves adapt. We still got some Uair kills, but now that sloppy and easy true combo is gone, our gameplay will change consideably and, of course, our offstage, read and Klaw game. But if at least it got its hitbox fixed, I would have considered that amazing to overcome the lost of our passed UThrow.
 

Dε√ilj∦o

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So I was labing with DaBow's and I dont see MUCH of a nerf for Uthrow, we are killing earlier, all has change is the percentages, and a lot of characters are still getting rekt like prepatch, fastfallers and heavies...
 
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