Bored Wolf Discussions: Weaknesses.

[ArcPoint]

Alrighty, once again, I'm rather bored with the Wolf Boards, there's no interesting discussion in here nor the WBR. So I feel like talking about something that's relatively in-depth: Wolf's weaknesses.

Now PLEASE for God's sake do NOT say recovery, it's not a strong point of Wolf's, but he can get back to the stage safely 95% of the time, just DI attacks so that you go upwards, so that you have more room to move towards the stage and you won't have the problem of recovery.

What else? I'll make my gigantic Wall of Text regarding my thoughts later...after I see some of your guys's responses.

I can definitely see weakness in Wolf, the majority of it can be covered up, some can't, but hey, that's life. But I mean...looking back , Wolf is a pretty solidly rounded character....

 

[Sesshomuronay]

Chaingrabbers is definately one of them. Yes his recovery is a weakness regardless of what you say. Under him is a bit of a weakness too.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I don't think Wolf has as many weaknesses as most people say. I think he's only limited by the player. Falco and MK are the only unwinnable match-up's for me, everything else works fine.

Being comboed easily is a weakness (CGs are combos too) and he has a bit of a hard time against opponent, who can outrange him but nothing that a skilled player can't fix

He might have some KO issues here and there, depending on the opponent but nothing too serious.

 

[Tokerella]

ftilts are rather easy to shield grab

 

[Kashakunaki]

That doesn't mean Ftilts are a weakness. It means don't use them as much. He has plenty of other good moves.

He's easily "comboed" because of his weight and because he is a space animal. However, this is no weakness either as it helps his air mobility which let us do the things we all know and love such as WoW and ACF.

I think his edge guarding game is rather weak. I have to go to school, so I'll make a more in-depth post on this later on.

 

[castorpollux]

I don't feel wolf has any glaring weaknesses at all. Sure he has a disadvantage against metaknight, but who doesn't? Like Kash said, being comboed easily shoudln't be considered a weakness since it's just a byproduct of his fast falling speed (which has more advantages than disadvantages).

I don't feel his edgeguarding game is weak. Sure it's not as good as ROBs or Metaknights, but if you fire his blaster intelligently, speed hug, and/or Bair right off the ledge, you'd be surprised how well he can keep the opponent off the stage.

 

[JCav]

i think cgs are a huge weakness for wolf. the fact that some characters can get "free damage" doesnt bother me. the problem is, when its a 0-death, its very difficult to manage.

d3 can cg from one side of the stage to the other and b throw at the end for another 16 damage.

i honestly believe it wasnt for all these high % combos, wolf would be a much better character.

cgs, tilt locks really hold back what could have been...

 

[ZeroFox]

Yeah I don't think he has any huge weaknesses.

Aside from chaingrabbing, and his recovery, which isn't as bad as people think, but could use a little work.

 

[ArcPoint]

He's easily "comboed" because of his weight and because he is a space animal. However, this is no weakness either as it helps his air mobility which let us do the things we all know and love such as WoW and ACF.

I don't see the connection between aerial mobility and falling speed. Aerial mobility can happen without weight, like with Wario. Actually, Wario is heavier than Wolf, just falls not so fast X_X. But yeah, aerial mobility is definitely one thing he has going for him. Whereas his weight... it's like a gift and a curse, on the downside he's very easily comboed. On the up side... I dunno, gives him advantages in the air and other stuff. I can't really think of the advantages right now lol.

 

[Kashakunaki]

I don't know about you, but I'd rather not be floating in the air forever like Jigglypuff. If he didn't fall so fast, again, his juggling abilities would be weaker, his Wall of Wolf game would be altered, etc. However, I think his edge guarding game would be better because you wouldn't sink like a rock.

Regardless, it's irrelevant to talk about what could be if his weight was different.

I think I'm in agreement with Castor, but I still don't see the edge guarding potential.

Also, I was talking to Arc about this last night. Yes, he can be chain grabbed, but we're talking about Wolf's weaknesses, not other characters strengths. A good half or more of the characters that can "combo" him can do it to more than 80% of the cast. Ok, yeah, Dedede can chaingrab him. So what? He can chaingrab Snake, Falco, Fox, Donkey Kong, and pretty much whoever the hell he feels like. Falco? Pfft. He can pretty much chaingrab whoever the hell he feels like, too.

These are not weaknesses unique to Wolf.

 

[Ishiey]

Edgeguarding with bair isn't too great against an opponent that knows how to DI up, but at least there are other options like blaster. The upside of the high fall speed and high weight is that you can FF shine to get through almost anything and you're harder to flat-out kill, along with the stuff Kash said.

He really is a very well balanced character, the only drawback is that you can't afford to make many mistakes because of the combos. Below can't really be considered a weak spot, just not a strong spot. Recovery is more than manageable, the only downside is that they're both telegraphed so the opponent can intercept them if they are prepared. I'd say the overall weakness would be that wolf isn't the safest of characters, so the player can't afford to slip up their spacing.

 

[Sesshomuronay]

Yea wolf doesnt really have that many weaknesses hes a generally good well rounded character. He would probably be higher in the tier list if it wasnt for bad matchups like MK, Falco or DDD.

 

[PSI Locke22]

wolf is good but his unorthadox up B and side B moves are a bit annoying but helpful some times.

 

[§witch]

His main weakness is that he gets gimped, really, that's the big thing.

 

[JCav]

Also, I was talking to Arc about this last night. Yes, he can be chain grabbed, but we're talking about Wolf's weaknesses, not other characters strengths. A good half or more of the characters that can "combo" him can do it to more than 80% of the cast. Ok, yeah, Dedede can chaingrab him. So what? He can chaingrab Snake, Falco, Fox, Donkey Kong, and pretty much whoever the hell he feels like. Falco? Pfft. He can pretty much chaingrab whoever the hell he feels like, too.

These are not weaknesses unique to Wolf.

ok im not going to deny that but is the worst when it comes to things like this


o and can anyone hug yet? that may be a weakness...

 

[Kashakunaki]

Wolf isn't the worst. He's bad, but not the worst. Fox is definitely worse off and so is Snake.

Hugging has become very easy, actually. I just biff it sometimes in an intense match... worst time to biff it.

 

[Peachkid]

to me, wolf lacks safe edgeguarding options. if he misses his attack, he can get royally screwed over due to his suck-tastic recovery

those are the main things that bug me. the lack of safe edgeguarding options and bad recovery

 

[Turbo Ether]

Utilt is bad. Uthrow is bad. His ground game is rather unsafe. He only has one kill move. Blaster gives frame disadvantage on HIT. Fair only auto-cancels while rising. If Fair lagged more like Marths Fair while landing, it would be super. Imagine if Marth had to RAR in order to do aerial approaches, he would be worse.

 

[Kashakunaki]

Utilt is bad. Uthrow is bad. His ground game is rather unsafe. He only has one kill move. Blaster gives frame disadvantage on HIT. Fair only auto-cancels while rising. If Fair lagged more like Marths Fair while landing, it would be super. Imagine if Marth had to RAR in order to do aerial approaches, he would be worse.

Who do you think you are Mr. Expert?

Utilt - Not the best, but not bad. It can be used to kill or be a last minute move to continue juggling when Upsmash would be too slow.

Uthrow - Just as good as backthrow. Wolf has a great juggling game and this allows him to put it into action.

Ground Game - Solid and scary. Fsmash, Dsmash, Usmash, Jab. All great for pressuring and good range and strength.

Blaster - Should be used sparsely, but far from a bad projectile.

Fair - AC only on rise isn't that bad. The move still ends plenty quickly for other options and Wolf's aerial mobility allows him to DI incredibly well when this move is done, more so than Marth fo' sho'.

 

[ArcPoint]

I don't know about you, but I'd rather not be floating in the air forever like Jigglypuff. If he didn't fall so fast, again, his juggling abilities would be weaker, his Wall of Wolf game would be altered, etc. However, I think his edge guarding game would be better because you wouldn't sink like a rock.

Regardless, it's irrelevant to talk about what could be if his weight was different.

Well, we're discussing weaknesses/advantages so I think that if you need to use an example then go for it =P But yeah, I agree with the advantages you've listed. He can follow people very closely with his aerial mobility and falling speed, I had forgotten about that sorta stuff =P

Also, I was talking to Arc about this last night. Yes, he can be chain grabbed, but we're talking about Wolf's weaknesses, not other characters strengths. A good half or more of the characters that can "combo" him can do it to more than 80% of the cast. Ok, yeah, Dedede can chaingrab him. So what? He can chaingrab Snake, Falco, Fox, Donkey Kong, and pretty much whoever the hell he feels like. Falco? Pfft. He can pretty much chaingrab whoever the hell he feels like, too.

These are not weaknesses unique to Wolf.

Alrighty, after a little bit of experimenting with Fox's Utilt lock, Wolf actually gets it worse than Falco (A fellow fast-faller) HOWEVER. There is one advantage: If you're at around 0-10, you can fast fall and you can be on the ground and shield before the next hit in the "Lock" comes in. However, the timing is strict, because the computer could only powershield it... not regular shield it. So, it is a weakness in the sense that he gets locked worse than other characters, however I suppose it's not quite "Zero to X" it's like, "15 to X"

With the exception of Falco's chaingrab, but that screws every spacy.

 

[Ishiey]

Utilt is mediocre, you don't really have any chance to use it against a good player. It can still work though, when you're really desperate, and there's always that 'wtf he used utilt' factor.

Uthrow is wolf's worst throw, but it can work for juggling, and your other throws get the job done so you don't even need uthrow. I never find myself wishing I had a better uthrow (although it wouldn't hurt).

Ground game is unsafe for sure, that's the only issue I have with it. Just had a smashfest today, I found myself using jabs and dtilt for core damage building attacks, fsmash for punishing, and dsmash for killing, and none of those are even that 'safe' depending on the character.

Blaster needs to cool down a lot faster. If your opponent gets hit with it anywhere closer than half of the distance you're doing it wrong. Same thing for fair when it's not AC'd. You can, of course, just avoid using these moves in situations where they're not safe, but it's such a shame because they're both great.


EDIT: and for falco's chaingrab, DIing towards the stage worked great for me, thanks JCav for the tip.

 

[JCav]

EDIT: and for falco's chaingrab, DIing towards the stage worked great for me, thanks JCav for the tip.

good to hear, anyone else like to conquer on this issue?

 

[ArcPoint]

Ground game is unsafe for sure, that's the only issue I have with it. Just had a smashfest today, I found myself using jabs and dtilt for core damage building attacks, fsmash for punishing, and dsmash for killing, and none of those are even that 'safe' depending on the character.

Wolf doesn't have some good moves (In reference to the other parts of your quote) but that doesn't make it a weakness, lack of good moves maybe...

But yes, I agree with you with the unsafe groundgame, despite all of its hype, it really isn't all that great. Fsmash, Usmash, Ftilt, Dtilt, Utilt are all punishable on block. Dsmash is actually pretty safe, unless they powershield it. It sends them back too far. Jab is also a very safe move due to the mixups you can do; the rest of the jab combo, Fair, grab...those are generally safe... Unless you whiff the grab, then you're screwed.

Dtilt is not safe on shield =/

 

[Kashakunaki]

It is if you space correctly, methinks.

D4BA, when I played him, said he noticed he did a lot better against me when he shielded more. Again, I'm not sure if that's due to poor grab game on my part or poor shield game on Wolf's part.

However, I still find that Up Smash on shields works well for pushing them too far away and punishing shield grabs (usually hits them to the side) or sidesteps.

 

[ArcPoint]

For punishing Usmash is awesome, freakin' 18%. Still, you can jab combo or something in between the first hit and second. So eh, I'm sure that in due time people will master the "Hit between first hit and second hit" for any move, like Snake's Ftilt, or Wolf's Usmash. And if they're not sure you can do that then it's lack of matchup knowledge =P