Blazing Player, Cinderace for Smash!

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#1
I've been having issues with spoiler tags so there's a lot of text coming up. Just saying.
Who is Cinderace?
1200px-815Cinderace.png

Cinderace is a fire type introduced in Pokémon Sword and Shield. It is the final evo of Scorbunny.

Why Cinderace?
h.png

Cinderace, according to many polls, is one of the, if not the, most popular Gen 8 pokemon. On top of that, Pyro Ball looks sick. Cinderace has perhaps had the biggest glow up of the gen 8 pokemon in between leak stage and actual reveal stage.

Moveset
Neutral Special: Pyro Ball, a mid ranged projectile that can be charged. It can bounce across the ground and walls. It will disappear after a short wile.
Side Special: Flame Charge, a chargeable attack in which Cinderace charges forward covered in flame.
Up Special: Bounce, a weaker version of Hero's zoom, but deals damage.
Down Special: Court Change, reflects incoming projectiles and can switch the opponent around. It covers a longer range but it has less powerful reflecting properties.
Forward Smash: Flame Kick, Cinderace kicks forward with it's leg ablaze.
Up Smash: Zen Headbutt, Cinderace jumps upwards with it's head covered in psychic power. Low range, but decently strong.
Down Smash: Low Sweep, a strong kick on the ground. Causes a trip effect,
Forward Tilt: Baton Pass, a baton appears in front of Cinderace and swipes downwards.
Down Tilt: Ember, Cinderace shoots a small of fire to the ground, creating a small fire. It lasts for a short time before dissipating.
Up Tilt: Sunny Day, Cinderace creates a sun above it's head briefly. It damages any opponent who touches it.
Neutral Aerial: Round, Cinderace creates round in front of it, having a decent range of effect.
Forward Aerial: Acrobatics, Cinderace slashes the air. It's a multi hit attack.
Up Air: Mega Kick, Cinderace preforms a large kick upwards. It's a high risk high reward move.
Down Air: Giga Impact, Cinderace crashes down, creating a shockwave around it.
Back Air: Gunk Shot, Cinderace launches numerous gunk shots behind itself.
Final Smash: Gigantamax. Cinderace gigantamaxes and commands it's giant fireball to attack it's opponent, creating a giant explosion.
Libero Moveset by NeonVoid
https://docs.google.com/document/d/15AE4hAj6p5h-fv0qi9kqA0kikeniZkhuwRUTLWJNinU/edit


Moveset by Lighknight
* Attacks
Neutral Attack
; Headbutt; Thrusts head forward in an arc with great force.

Dash attack; Flame-Charge; Cinderace gets low, skidding across the ground a good distance with a foot forward, creating cinders in their wake. Has a sweetspot that does extra fiery damage and makes it into a KO move at around 130% at the ledge. (like Mario dash-attack)

Up tilt; Zen-Headbutt; Thrusts head upwards with great force.

Side tilt; Assurance; Cinderace puts forth their right arm and leg forcibly forward for a moment. This move has various small hitboxes that have different medium knockback angles.

Down tilt; Low-Kick; A quick low kick that has a tripping chance. Has a sweetspot at the tip which does more fiery damage and has a better trip chance. Is Cinderace's most spammable move due to coming out quickly and having very little end-lag.

Up air; Acrobatics; Starting from the front, do an upwards kick in an arc. The last frame of the attack has a diagonally downward light spiking hitbox. (like Ganondorf/Captain-Falcon up-air)

Dair; Double-Kick; A quick succession of two kicks directly below Cinderace. Can sweetspot at the tip of the kicks, doing more fiery damage while the second kick additionally has a weak spike comparable to Kirby's down-air. Is Cinderace's fastest aerial with low start-up and hardly any end-lag. (like Lucario down-air)

Fair; Iron-Head; Cinderace thrusts head forcefully forward and down in an arc. Slow start-up and high end-lag (like Mario forward-air)

Bair; Blaze-Kick; A good ranged back-kick with big explosive power at the sweetspot. The weak hit creates no fire explosion and has low knock-back that generally won't KO. Sweetspot KOs around 90% at the ledge. Slow start-up.

Nair; Facade; Quickly does the splits midair with both legs extending outward on both sides of Cinderace. Has sweetspots on both tips of Cinderace's feet that do extra fiery damage. Good start-up with some end-lag.

Side smash; Mega-Kick; Cinderace lifts up his leg in a fierce signature kick with 'dabbing' arms. Does more fiery damage and knockback at the tip of the foot on the last frame of the attack. Has good reach but slow start-up and average knockback (without sweetspot) compared to other smash attacks, and while the sweetspot allows it to KO around 70% at the ledge the precise timing needed makes it unreliable.

Down smash; Reversal; Does the splits with legs covering both sides of the ground around Cinderace, doing more fiery damage and knockback on both tips of the feet. Good for covering rolls and get-ups. When landing the ledge facing sweetspot it'll KO around 90% at the ledge uncharged, otherwise around 130% without it.

Up smash; U-Turn; Cinderace does a quick backwards summersault kick, dealing extra fiery damage and knockback on the sweetspot. Even without the sweetspot, its Cinderace's go-to smash attack, KO'ing on the base stage around 105% and with the sweetspot around 90%. (like Fox up-smash)
Has a hitbox directly behind Cinderace at the end of the move as well with the last frame of the move having a diagonally spiking hitbox that can work to 2-frame some recovering opponents who haven't grabbed the ledge yet.

Neutral special; Feint+Quick-Attack; Cinderace charges forward in a flash a short distance, traveling behind an enemy's shield if in front of it, with a fist out which does high shield damage and can be followed up by a forward or backward kick depending on which direction you hold on the second part which will shield-poke if the shield was hit by the first part of the move. The first part of the move only hits shields so while it does high shield-stun in order for you to do a follow-up attack with the second part of the move, if you don't land the first hit there is enough end-lag on it to get you punished by a responsive opponent's attack. Noticeable end-lag on the kick part of the attack as well. Kick doesn't KO till around 150%. Can break shields that are very low with first hit. (similar to Corrin Side-Special)

Side special; Pyro-Ball; Cinderace kicks up a pebble and on your second press shoots it forward in the chosen direction speedily in flames. On first press the direction you hold the joystick influences the position the pebble is in, setting up for varying attack angles. Additionally, you can cancel out of the first press with a normal, or smash attack, or a short-hop followed by an aerial in order to expand the number of angles the Pyro-Ball can go. The initial press stalls you in the air for a second to allow you to react with a follow-up. The pebble will stay out for a couple seconds total before being hit even if it lands on the ground. During this time out it can still be hit to send it in flames but another pebble can't be spawned till it despawns. It can travel the full length of Final Destination in flames but becomes a normal pebble again after that point and still has a hitbox as it travels, acting like Snake's grenade till it disappears after a second or hits someone. This allows it to still interrupt recoveries or attacks. KO percent varies but does so as early as 95% far offstage. Though, if its not stale, it'll KO reliably at 150% nearly anywhere on the stage. Its possible for the opponent to clank with the projectile but is very difficult without disjoints. All of this makes it a core attack of Cinderace's moveset that is very flexible but difficult to master.

Down special; Court-Change; Holds out hand defiantly as Cinderace rants, creating a mysterious arcing barrier of black smoke and red energy flowing outwards which also appears over Cinderace's head in small bursts. The ghastly barrier of energy stays out for a second, reflecting projectiles, turning the opponent around, and any status that Cinderace or the opponent have will be swapped between each other and their effect timer will also be reset. This makes it one of the stronger reflectors in the game as you can steal powerful affects such as Wii-Fit-Trainer's Deep-Breathing boost, Hero's Bounce shield, and even affects granted by items such as invincibility. Has noticeable end-lag, being just a little more than other reflectors.

Up special; High-Jump-Kick; Shoots up in a forward angle with knee a good distance then brings other leg around and down with strong momentum. Generally carries opponents caught within the move through the whole duration. Move only stops when hitting the ground or falling offstage and usually KOs Cinderace before the opponent in that situation. Generally doesn't KO onstage until around 150%. (reverse of Incineroar's recovery)

Forward throw; Fire-Punch; Steps forward with a flaming punch, sending the opponent at a low upward angle.
Back throw; Baton-Pass; Summersaults backwards with the opponent then kicks them back. (like Ken Bthrow)
Up throw; Bounce; Jumps high out of sight with opponent then comes crashing down with them underneath Cinderace's feet, resulting in a mini-explosion that send them high up forward vertically. (like Kirby Uthrow)
Down throw; Work-Up; Puts opponent to the ground then pelts them with a flurry of fiery kicks from above, sending them in flames behind Cinderace upwards a distance. The highest damage throw. (like Kirby Dthrow)
Grabs; Bad range and slow.
Pummel; Sucker-Punch; Throws a quick underhanded punch.

Final Smash; Gigantamax Hotshot; Cinderace jumps out of frame and a giant fireball is seen rapidly growing in the background, ending with opened eyes and a mouth and the newly formed Cinderace coming out above from in it. A huge target reticle then shows up and once the location is chosen Cinderace kicks the fireball which reaches the stage within a second, covering half the screen as it burns anyone caught in it for a full second then explodes!

* Movement
Jumps
; small short-hop but overall high jumps
Rolls; Fast
Dodges; Fast
Groundspeed; Fast
Airspeed; Average
Fallspeed; Fast
Weight; Light

* Animations/Functionality
Match-Start Animation
; Cinderace bursts through a wall of fire on his knees and quickly gets up.
Up taunt; Gets out a pebble which Cinderace confidently lightly kicks up repeatedly to show-off.
Side taunt; Jogs in place, setting the ground on fire while Cinderace does various poses with arms such as crossing them and dabbing to show-off and taunt opponents.
Down taunt; Gets on knees excitedly, yelling “Cinderrrrr!!” as arms slightly thrust.
Crouch; Falls onto knees with body slightly leaning back. Can't crawl either direction.
Idle Animation; Cinderace puts an arm to their side as they look around.
Walking Animation; The simple walk seen in Pokemon Camp
Running Animation; The same run used in Pokemon Camp
Shield Animation; Crosses arms in front of chest with legs bracing
When Footstooled; Goes limp with widened surprised eyes
Win Animation 1#; Cinderace does a victorious hop followed by a much higher one, then puts one arm to his side in triumph while looking off into the distance.
Win Animation 2#; Cinderace excitedly hops forward a total of 3 times for the crowd then ends in the last hop with arms outward with a pumped pose.
Win Animation 3#; Cinderace runs and does a slide on their knees with a trail of flames behind them, ending with pumping arms up in the air as Cinderace slows to a stop.
Loss Animation; Claps respectfully with a smile.

* Analysis
Synopsis
;
Cinderace is a very flexible fighter good at both offense and defense that likes playing around the ledges of the map. At the core of Cinderace's moveset is its Pyro-Ball which most of its moves are meant to synergize with, making Cinderace's moves generally come out fast in order to combo and react quickly to Pyro-Ball but as a result they tend to have noticeable end-lag. When on offense Cinderace can set up trap situations with Pyro-Ball and likely finish off with a forward-air Iron Head spike. And while the Pokemon has a lacking grab-game, it is helped with the potent move Feint to get past others defenses. However, on defense Cinderace can also pester the opponent from across the stage with Pyro-Ball. But if the opponent tries to go in with projectiles or buffs of their own then Cinderace can turn it around in his favor with Court Change. Overall, Cinderace is good at making others play his game while creating openings and punishing slip-ups all with the careful use of Pyro-Ball in tandem with the rest of Cinderace's moveset.

Difficulty of use; Hard
With the highly technical Pyro-Ball being the centerpiece of Cinderace's moveset and the good number of sweetspots on various moves, the precision and ingenuity needed to maximize this character is high. This is further highlighted with the lightweight status Cinderace has despite having overall good stats such as a speedy fast-fall and great ground-speed which are also more difficult to control than slower normal speeds. As such, it can be easy to make mistakes or hard-reads that heavily punish you with losing a stock, given Cinderace's lightweight profile. Having an almost non-existent grab-game also limits your options but Cinderace tries to get around this problem with Feint. Though, moves like the dash-attack, up-air, forward-air, and up-smash should still get you by as a new player with the character.

Fighter Classification; Zoner/(Bait&Punisher)
The heavy usage of Pyro-Ball paired with many moves having noticeable end-lag lends itself to a more careful zoning playstyle that relies on baiting certain movements and attacks then punishing accordingly. In movement and attacks Cinderace can be best surmised as a combination of Captain Falcon and Wii Fit Trainer with hints of Mario. As such, Cinderace kinda plays like them combined, looking similar to Wii-Fit when playing defense and Captain Falcon when going on the offense.

Perkilator Classic Mode Route Idea
Cinderace: Showboating Smash
(Fights characters who have a tendency of showing off. The Soccer Ball is the only item.)
Stage 1: :ultbowser::ultroy2:on:npc: (Super Bell Hill)
Stage 2: :ultfalco:on Corneria (Main Theme - Star Fox 64 (Melee))
Stage 3: :ultwario::ultsonic:on :warioware: (free-for-all; WarioWare Inc. Medley)
Stage 4: :ultdarkpit::ultwolf:on Reset Bomb Forest (Star Fox Medley)
Stage 5: :ultken:(Stamina Battle, 150HP) on Suzaku Castle Ω (Ken Stage Type B)
Stage 6::ultkrool::ultincineroar:on Kongo Falls (Snakey Chantey)
Boss: Master (and Crazy) Hand (Eternatus (Phase 3))

NeonVoid non Libero Moveset/Ideas

Here is a realistic moveset I made, I'd appreciate it if anybody enjoys this idea, or if there are any comments or suggestions for improvements. I considered having Libero as the ability, but removed it for the fear of too much complexity.

If you have any questions, please let me know!

Jabs: Cinderace will throw out a series of fists.

Side Tilt: Cinderace will release a roundhouse kick directly in front of it.
Up Tilt: Cinderace will simply hop up and use a headbutt upwards like a soccer player when they use their heads. (imagine Pikachu's up grab)
Down Tilt: Kind of like Pikachu's down tilt, Cinderace will do a low sweep kick on the ground. This generally has a 30% chance to trip the opponents.

Dash Attack: Cinderace will charge forward and slam his elbow into the opponent and push them down towards the ground (imagine the taunt that Incineroar does when he lands his dash attack).

Neutral Aerial: Cinderace will cover himself in flames like Flare Blitz, having a hitbox that surrounds him.
Side Aerial: This move would run like Captain Falcon's fair, where Cinderace jabs a flaming knee (Blaze Kick) forward.
Back Aerial: Cinderace will rotate 180° and slam the back of his foot into the opponent.
Up Aerial: Once in the air, Cinderace will backflip into an uppercut kick.
Down Aerial: This move has a meteor effect. Cinderace will stomp two feet directly below him (imagine the motion where Meta Knight does a downward grab).

Forward Smash: Cinderace now has a stronger roundhouse kick, which slams forward.
Down Smash: Cinderace will almost literally break dance and move his feet around him, covering both the front and the back, hitting opponents on both sides.
Up Smash: Cinderace does a backflip like his up air and swings his foot above him. On stages like Battlefield and PS2, this can reach into the platforms above.

Basic Grabs: Cinderace will grab the opponent and knee them in the stomach.
Forward Throw: Cinderace will push the opponent in front of him and push him away using his foot (good going into a down tilt).
Down Throw: Cinderace will do what Greninja does for his Down B. He will simply throw the opponent towards the ground. Like Greninja, this is good for transitioning into combos.
Up Throw: Cinderace will headbutt the opponent upright, kind of like how a soccer player would hit a ball with their head.
Back Throw: Throws the opponent behind him and screams while kicking the opponent in a kung-fu style.

Neutral B: Pyro Ball
The charge time would be the same as Water Shuriken, but the Pyro Ball can bounce around the stage. Tap B for a small Pyro Ball (good for edgeguarding), but hold for a large and durable one that can bounce across the ground and off the stage. After charging, you can press B at any time to release it (unless you get hit), so Cinderace can dribble the ball between his feet. You can even kick it behind you while offstage if you flick the stick and press B at the right time. This move has roughly the same animation as in Sword and Shield, which includes the clean sound effects.

Side B: Either Direction - Iron Head
Cinderace would charge forward and slam its head into the opponent. This can be used for knockback, but could leave you vulnerable if you missed (imagine Banjo & Kazooie's side B). This move will spike an opponent upon contact if they're hit while offstage.

Up B: High Jump Kick
When recovering after being hit off stage, Cinderace will move upward like Captain Falcon, but at breakneck speed. On the ground, Cinderace will charge ahead and bash the opponent (like Little Macs neutral B, but without charge time and vulnerability frames).

Down B: Court Change
This move, like previous Pokemon, acts as a counter, but additionally acts as reflect. Cinderace will summon a court area with a white mist in front and behind him (like Pit’s reflect). If an opponent sends a projectile into the courts, Cinderace will reverse it onto the opponent. If the opponent attacks the court area, they will be slowed for a few frames and Cinderace will jump from his position and drop kick them (sort of like Greninja’s Substitute, where the opponent gets slowed before getting hit). The downside is that you're left vulnerable if nothing hits this move.

Final Smash: G-Max Cinderace
Cinderace (like Giga Bowser) will enlarge and will be able to kick its strong, "mind of its own" Pyro Ball towards the stage, and it will bounce around in an unpredictable pattern. The background behind Cinderace will be red, like the Dynamax clouds.

Speed & Jumps: Cinderace will maintain a low jumping distance, but can move extremely fast. While High Jump Kick is an excellent recovery option, Cinderace’s speed and jumps are somewhat on par with Little Mac.

Out of Shield (OoS) options: Great, as Cinderace has a lot of options after shield buffers and other moves, almost like Roy & Chrom.
Weight: Average
Rolls: Fast. Cinderace will leap forward into a barrel roll like Snake, but much quicker.

Up Taunt: Kicks the ground and kicks around a small pebble.
Side Taunt: Proudly pounds his fists up with excitement.
Down Taunt: Gets down on his knees and roars, like in Sword and Shield (more specifically the Dynamax starting animation without Dynamaxing).

Win Animation #1: Cinderace is seen doing all sorts of flips and kicking a Pyro Ball in a circular motion around him. This ends with Cinderace taking a kneel and having his foot on top of the ball like a soccer player. Very stylish overall.

Win Animation #2: Cinderace is running all over the place and lands in a fighting stance, smiling.

Win Animation #3: This will be unique, as you’ll get a background view of Cinderace jumping from another distant island, and he will land on his knees, skidding across the ground and leaving fire behind him.

Idle Animation: Cinderace will follow his idle animation from Sword and Shield, where he will eventually start to kick a pebble and turn it into a Pyro Ball. Cinderace will kick it over his head, and the ball will disappear. This is unique, where an opponent can actually take damage if hit by the ball.
(I know, this won’t really have any effect in competition, it’s just there as an easter egg)

Analysis: Cinderace is a highly unique fighter with quick speed, stylish combos and animations, and strong options for kill confirms and combo start-ups. Edgeguarding has been built into this character’s concept, with Pyro ball and Iron Head being great utility moves. Out of shield options give Cinderace a great deal of flexibility, and speed allows him to easily bait and punish his opponents. The ability to go offstage with Iron Head, as well as using bair/fair can easily make Cinderace a threat to you once you’re off that stage.

Difficulty - Hard: For any player devoted to Cinderace, it will be difficult to control his mechanics, as you'll be put into a lot of risky scenarios with a high reward. Court Change and Iron Head leave you vulnerable, which could end in a quick defeat if you're not careful. If you know Cinderace's combos and can time your smash attacks just right, then you might be able to quickly gain control.

Fighter Classification (Hit & Run/Zoner): Depending on how you play, Cinderace can easily be used to quickly approach the opponent for close-combat attacks and get out of the opponents range just as easy, due to a small hurtbox from the front and back ends. Cinderace can also classify as a Zoner thanks to Pyro Ball. Like Pikachu’s thunder jolts, Pyro Ball is a great option for edgeguarding and stalling the opponent, as it can go off the screen to hit an opponent into the blast zone, as well as bouncing under the stage when necessary. A lot of moves give Cinderace quite the variety of uniqueness!



Classic Mode - Courageous Spirit!

In this route, Cinderace will take on opponents that have some relation to fire or determination.
Cinderace starts each match with a soccer ball next to him. The only item besides this is the X-Bomb.

Stage 1: :ultkrool: on :pirateship:

Stage 2: :ultbowser:&:ultbowserjr: (Bowser’s Castle on Paper Mario; multi-battle with two Bowser and the koopalings)

Stage 3::ultryu: &:ultken: (Suzaku Castle; stamina battle)

Stage 4::ultwiifittrainer::ultfalcon: (2v1; Big Blue)

Stage 5: Final Smash:ultgreninja: - Starts with final smash, gets another every 30 seconds (Kalos Pokemon League)

Stage 6::ultincineroar: and :ultcharizard: (free for all; Wyndon Stadium)

Boss - Eternatus (Eternamax form): While it’s unlikely, this would be a cool way to add more bosses to the game for fun. Cinderace will look at Eternatus in confusion at the top of Hammerlocke tower (separate from Wyndon Stadium) and see Eternatus slowly get bigger and take shape. During battle, parts of Eternatus will pop in and out of the screen to attack you, and that’s when you damage it. Cinderace will be on a platform that rotates around Eternatus, surrounding it in a circular motion, but after a while, Eternatus will destroy the platform, leaving you to fight it while moving on the floating debris. You can see the whole region, as well as chunks of debris floating around you.

New Game Feature - Boss Blitz: Sort of like the all-star mode, Boss Blitz will allow you to go through all of the bosses in the game, including a couple of new bosses to be added in over time (Eternatus, for example). You can also get sweet rewards, such as classic tickets, music tracks and high-level spirits.



Stage - Wyndon Stadium: This is a different stage compared to other Pokemon stages. In this stage, the players will be on a platform that moves throughout the Galar region, and this will partly work like Poke Floats did in Melee.

  • The battle will start on a platform made out of glass and a smaller midair platform in the middle. The stage will move around the rim of the Wyndon Stadium. You will see two Pokemon fighting down on the field, but soon, the Pokemon Dynamax. These Pokemon will be random, but mainly, new Gen 8 Pokemon will appear such as the fossil Pokemon, Galarian forms, the other starters, and even some Gigantamax Pokemon (like Charizard). While the super-sized Pokemon fight, the platform will begin to disappear and drop you on to the Dynamax Pokemon, where you can move around on them like the Poke Floats stage from Melee. The players will eventually return to the platform, and the two Pokemon fighting will use Max Moves that result in a bright light covering everything but the platform you’re on.

  • When the light goes away, you’ll see that the platform is moving away from the stadium, still filled with cheering and battling. The platform will travel across the Galar Region, and the platform will fly by all sorts of places, such as the other cities and the hometown.

  • The next stop is the Wild Area, and the platform will move all around it, kind of like the Prism Tower stage, just horizontally. You’ll go through parts like the bridges and the Lake of Outrage, and you will see a bunch of Pokemon running around and living in the area.

  • After a while, the stage will approach and enter a max raid den. You enter as the raid is starting, and you'll see a random Dynamax/Gigantamax Pokemon fighting four Pokemon below. Once again, the platform will drop you onto the Pokemon, and soon enough, another Pokemon from below will Dynamax, and the colossals will continuously collide with eachother. This will end with the raid Pokemon blowing your platform out of the den.

  • This is how the cycle goes, but you can also turn off stage hazards, and you’ll just fight on a floating platform, with one mini platform above it in the middle. This time, the Smash fighters are the attention. Dynamax Pokemon will come in, but they will fight each other and not interfere with you in any way. Occasionally, they will glance at the platform, however.

  • Obviously, no new Pokeball Pokemon will get added, but this stage will more than make up for it.


Music Tracks
  • Battle! Wild Pokemon (Remix)
  • FInal Battle! Hop
  • Battle! Gym Leader (Remix)
  • Battle! Marnie
  • Battle! Rival Bede
  • Motostoke
  • Hammerlocke
  • Wyndon
  • Battle Tower
  • Battle! Max Raid
  • Battle! Zacian/Zamazenta
  • Eternatus Phase 1
  • Eternatus Phase 2
  • Eternatus Phase 3 (Remix)
Neonvoid Blaze Moveset
https://docs.google.com/document/d/15AE4hAj6p5h-fv0qi9kqA0kikeniZkhuwRUTLWJNinU/edit
Do you support Cinderace?

Support List:
Pokelego999
Luminario
Toonito
MacDaddyNook
Neonvoid
Voe
Smashing Ramen
JD Cabera
LightKnight
Majesty Indigo
RileyXY1
MrSmasher
XHero
Spatman
Brodemmars
SnowGolem
YellowExploshi
Cinderace
Noipoi
OnyanRings
RandysRage
Perkilator
 
Last edited:

Luminario

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 7, 2014
Messages
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Location
Your guess is as good as mine
#2
Out of the 3 starter evos, Cinderace jumped out to me the most from the start and it's the one I chose, so I'm definitely down for it to be in smash. I can see Pyro Ball being a sort of chargeable projectile where the more keepie uppies you do the stronger it is when fired, and you can dribble the ball around to move but you can't hold the charge. Court Change could essentially be Mario's Cape, and it's FS could be a Bowser styled one where it Dynamaxes into the background and fires giant fireballs at the stage 3 times.
 
Joined
Apr 24, 2015
Messages
1,195
#4
Cinderace is a Pokemon that has grown on my fast. I'd absolutely love if had a mechanic/gimmick that worked around manipulating Pyro Ball to bounce off the stage and targets as a sort of summonable version of the Soccer Ball item. Having shenanigans happen because a wayward ball happened to be knocked into players would be pretty fun.
 

NeonVoid

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 31, 2019
Messages
119
#5
I just ran across this, but yeah, I would love to have Cinderace as a fighter. I think Cinderace is a likely choice, and I could see it being a really fast character with stylish moves. Pyro Ball, High Jump Kick, Sucker Punch, Flame Charge, Bounce, it has a lot of good moves that would look really interesting in Smash
 
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Messages
742
Location
SoCal
#7
Cinderace would have been great if Incineroar wasn't in the game, in my opinion. With both Charizard and Incineroar as playable characters, I feel like Fire types are represented well in Smash. I do not support Cinderace as a result, but out of the three Galar starters, I think it easily has the best build and moveset potential for Smash. Charizard and Incineroar have laggy moves and slow movement respectively, so Cinderace would definitely be a lighter, faster character than either of them would ever be.
 

RileyXY1

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
3,161
#8
Cinderace would have been great if Incineroar wasn't in the game, in my opinion. With both Charizard and Incineroar as playable characters, I feel like Fire types are represented well in Smash. I do not support Cinderace as a result, but out of the three Galar starters, I think it easily has the best build and moveset potential for Smash. Charizard and Incineroar have laggy moves and slow movement respectively, so Cinderace would definitely be a lighter, faster character than either of them would ever be.
I don't think that Sakurai cares about what types the playable Pokemon are.
 

Voe

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 14, 2018
Messages
179
Location
NY
Switch FC
SW-7459-3215-2216
#9
I was waiting for a Cinderace thread. I'll support the pokemon for DLC.
 

Guynamednelson

Smash Master
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2014
Messages
4,146
NNID
Nelson340
3DS FC
2105-8742-2099
Switch FC
SW 4265 6024 9719
#10
Cinderace would have been great if Incineroar wasn't in the game, in my opinion. With both Charizard and Incineroar as playable characters, I feel like Fire types are represented well in Smash. I do not support Cinderace as a result, but out of the three Galar starters, I think it easily has the best build and moveset potential for Smash. Charizard and Incineroar have laggy moves and slow movement respectively, so Cinderace would definitely be a lighter, faster character than either of them would ever be.
I didn't think they'd add Incineroar because that'd be two starters in a row. But guess what?
 

NeonVoid

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 31, 2019
Messages
119
#12
I don't think that Sakurai cares about what types the playable Pokemon are.
I think that Sakurai cares more about how funor playable a character would be, not what types the starters should be. If Cinderace is popular, then they're going to want to add him over Rillaboom
 

LightKnight

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#14
Personally, Cinderace would not be my first pick for a pokemon from Galar but I think the pokemon is easily a top 5 contender from the region as you could make a hype moveset for the pokemon and base it around his pyro-ball, pulling off some silly awe inspiring shenanigans at times. Put another way, Cinderace's main gimmick would be its pyro-ball it'd utilize through many attacks and mainly specials, even using it like WFT's ball from the Side-Special where you can angle or stall it, sorta building the rest of the moveset off that. Cinderace could basically work as a sorta rush-down/zoner hybrid but requires some tech-skill to use effectively.

My main issue is not with currently having fire type starters in the game but rather already having a handful of fiery brawlers in the game such as :ultfalcon::ultincineroar::ultmario::ultken::ult_terry:
Still, thats not to say Cinderace couldn't have a unique flare compared to these other characters but my initial thoughts is he could be a bit too similar (yet, not similar enough) to the likes of Captain Falcon, but with a soccer ball. The reason I added that extra note in parenthesis is because I could see Blaziken being added but as a Captain Falcon Echo whereas I can't say the same for Cinderace.

That said, I'm still thinking of tackling the moveset sometime so if I ever get to it I'll post it on this thread.
 
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RileyXY1

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#18
I think that Cinderace is the best choice for a Gen 8 starter. Rillaboom is overrated and a bandwagon pick and Inteleon's G-Max form is too silly to take seriously.
 

MajestyIndigo

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#19
Count me in the supporter list !
Cinderace made it in my top 6 favorite Pokemon in no time and I am pretty sure that we will get a gen 8 Pokemon at some point, let it be him please :D
 
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#20
I'm voting no, if only for the fact the game has enough fire type fighters and I'd rather see another new Poke'mon make an appearance if one must. Doesn't have to be a starter.
 

MajestyIndigo

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#21
I'm voting no, if only for the fact the game has enough fire type fighters and I'd rather see another new Poke'mon make an appearance if one must. Doesn't have to be a starter.
What's cool about Cinderace is that this Pokemon has access to the hidden ability Libero which allows it to change its type depending on the attack it just used ( like Greninja's Protean ).
A Cinderace can thus turn into a poison ( gunk shot ), fighting (high jump kick), bug (U-turn), steel (iron head )type and so on.

That would be super original on top of the fact that we don't have a football player in smash yet xD
 

LightKnight

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#22
What's cool about Cinderace is that this Pokemon has access to the hidden ability Libero which allows it to change its type depending on the attack it just used ( like Greninja's Protean ).
A Cinderace can thus turn into a poison ( gunk shot ), fighting (high jump kick), bug (U-turn), steel (iron head )type and so on.
That would be super original on top of the fact that we don't have a football player in smash yet xD
How do you suppose that sort of mechanic would practically work with the moveset though? Type advantages/disadvantages aren't really implemented into the game anymore like it was with Pokemon Trainer in Brawl. I suppose it could be re-introduced with a character but I'm not sure if this makes sense for Cinderace in particular.
I ask because I'm making a moveset for Cinderace but have no plans to implement that ability for that sort of feature so I'm curious how you'd see it being implemented sense you brought it up.
 

MajestyIndigo

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#23
LightKnight LightKnight

I haven't deeply thought about it but for instance, his special moves would each have a different type, thus changing Cinderace's aura/color slightly ( poison type = turn a bit purple and have some poison bubbles around him ).
After turning poison type, his normal attacks would all cause the enemy to be a bit poisoned. If he goes steel type he could become a bit slower but harder to launch and take a slighly more metalic appreance ( shining ).
There could be a mechanic that if the player doens't fully load the special attack, there would be no type change ( because it could be annoying to change type all the time idk ).

I could probably find some other tweaks for two other types too if I give it enough time.
The special moves would thus be a bit time limited to not be spammed or something like that.
It's quite vague but has potential xD
 
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NeonVoid

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#24
LightKnight LightKnight

I haven't deeply thought about it but for instance, his special moves would each have a different type, thus changing Cinderace's aura/color slightly ( poison type = turn a bit purple and have some poison bubbles around him ).
After turning poison type, his normal attacks would all cause the enemy to be a bit poisoned. If he goes steel type he could become a bit slower but harder to launch and take a slighly more metalic appreance ( shining ).
There could be a mechanic that if the player doens't fully load the special attack, there would be no type change ( because it could be annoying to change type all the time idk ).

I could probably find some other tweaks for two other types too if I give it enough time.
The special moves would thus be a bit time limited to not be spammed or something like that.
It's quite vague but has potential xD
It's not that is vague at all, I think that this is an amazing idea, I almost feel sad that Greninja didn't have Protean in Smash.

Just like that, I want Cinderace even more. Hopefully we won't have to wait too long to find out!
 

NeonVoid

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#25
How do you suppose that sort of mechanic would practically work with the moveset though? Type advantages/disadvantages aren't really implemented into the game anymore like it was with Pokemon Trainer in Brawl. I suppose it could be re-introduced with a character but I'm not sure if this makes sense for Cinderace in particular.
I ask because I'm making a moveset for Cinderace but have no plans to implement that ability for that sort of feature so I'm curious how you'd see it being implemented sense you brought it up.
Where could I find your moveset for Cinderace?
 

LightKnight

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#26
Where could I find your moveset for Cinderace?
I'll post it on this thread when I've finished. I recently jotted down a rough idea of what all Cinderace's moves could be so I just need to write what specifically they do as I know generally what I'm trying to accomplish with the character.

As a side note, I think after Byleth's reveal that sorta helps Pokemon's chances of getting a gen 8 rep. Cause it shows Nintendo is intending to advertise at least one of their newer titles through a playable character.
 

NeonVoid

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#27
I'll post it on this thread when I've finished. I recently jotted down a rough idea of what all Cinderace's moves could be so I just need to write what specifically they do as I know generally what I'm trying to accomplish with the character.

As a side note, I think after Byleth's reveal that sorta helps Pokemon's chances of getting a gen 8 rep. Cause it shows Nintendo is intending to advertise at least one of their newer titles through a playable character.
Yeah, plus, which new Pokemon has been given the most attention? If the fighters are already decided, then Cinderace could've been predicted as the fan-favorite by GF and Sakurai if that makes sense
 

LightKnight

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#28
Yeah, plus, which new Pokemon has been given the most attention? If the fighters are already decided, then Cinderace could've been predicted as the fan-favorite by GF and Sakurai if that makes sense
For sure. The fact its shown with Gou in the anime alone tells me its the favored starter of the gen. I know there was a sort of jerk reaction to the final form of the pokemon by some fans but its no surprise that its so popular seeing as sports/football is so loved.
 

NeonVoid

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#29
Well, I think this board is more popular with posts than the Toxtricity board, Also
For sure. The fact its shown with Gou in the anime alone tells me its the favored starter of the gen. I know there was a sort of jerk reaction to the final form of the pokemon by some fans but its no surprise that its so popular seeing as sports/football is so loved.
To be fair, Inteleon got it's fair share of hate, Rillaboom too. I guess now well just have to see, I'm supporting Cinderace for Smash all the way
 
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UserKev

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#33
I think that Cinderace is the best choice for a Gen 8 starter. Rillaboom is overrated and a bandwagon pick and Inteleon's G-Max form is too silly to take seriously.
Fire starter Pokémon are more likely to be heavily marketed in general. Grass starters are really lucky to see any praise, honestly. This was mostly long overdo.
 

LightKnight

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#37
Yeah, now this should work, he's the updated link. Just let me know if you want editing access!

https://docs.google.com/document/d/15AE4hAj6p5h-fv0qi9kqA0kikeniZkhuwRUTLWJNinU/edit?usp=drivesdk
Nice! I'm glad you were able to come up with something. This is a very cool Libero take on Cinderace's moveset :b:
The way Cinderace moves in your moveset definitely feels like the character.
I'm assuming while Steel typing your not only slower but a higher weight? In other words, while Cinderace doesn't fall any faster they would however be harder to launch out of bounds? Seemed odd to me that the only benefit of becoming the typing is a 100% trip chance on the Dtilt while taking a pretty significant nerf in the form of mobility.
 

MajestyIndigo

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#39
Nice! I'm glad you were able to come up with something. This is a very cool Libero take on Cinderace's moveset :b:
The way Cinderace moves in your moveset definitely feels like the character.
I'm assuming while Steel typing your not only slower but a higher weight? In other words, while Cinderace doesn't fall any faster they would however be harder to launch out of bounds? Seemed odd to me that the only benefit of becoming the typing is a 100% trip chance on the Dtilt while taking a pretty significant nerf in the form of mobility.
I had the exact same thought, though since I'm not a native english speaker, I wasn't sure my comprehension was accurate^^
 

NeonVoid

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#40
Nice! I'm glad you were able to come up with something. This is a very cool Libero take on Cinderace's moveset :b:
The way Cinderace moves in your moveset definitely feels like the character.
I'm assuming while Steel typing your not only slower but a higher weight? In other words, while Cinderace doesn't fall any faster they would however be harder to launch out of bounds? Seemed odd to me that the only benefit of becoming the typing is a 100% trip chance on the Dtilt while taking a pretty significant nerf in the form of mobility.
Yeah, I could've explained that a bit better, but to answer your question, gravity would affect you as a Steel type. Knockback would have a little bit more resistance, but not by much, mean ik ng it would be a km ok little harder to knock you off stage
 
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