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Black Shadow for SSBB

Wiseguy

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 28, 2007
Messages
2,245
Location
Saint John, New Brunswick, Canada (Proud
IMO, SF deserves 4 (because they have that many interesting characters to give) and F-Zero deserves 2 (if for no other reason than Falcon was in the original). I think that's how it should be; now whether it plays out that way is a different story, but I understand you are against Falco and against any non-Goroh F-Zero character.

Honestly, I would be fine with Pico or Shadow or Deathborn or heck, even Jody Summers. I just want another F-Zero character. (James McCloud anyone?? ;)) That's just my POV.
Let's be clear: I'm not anti-Falco. He's my favorite SF character. I simply beleive that 3 SF reps is the maximum we can expect. Either Falco or Wolf would be fine choices for Fox's clone, but I gave the edge to Wolf due to the fact that he hasn't appeared in a Smash Bros game yet and deserves a turn in the spot light.

I wouldn't mind Pico or some other character, but I don't see that as very likely now...
 

the grim lizard

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 26, 2004
Messages
3,130
ok so because brawl is a different game sakurai is only going to put characters in who were on the poll. that makes allot of sense, i can't wait to play link's uncle and dr. kawaski from brain age now...
Thanks for ignoring what I said and taking my words out of context. :bigthumbu

so because this is smash all of the sword fighters play exactly the same, that makes allot of sense too. oh and a gun, no matter what type it is, goes bang and fires a bullet. a sword can be used in a multitude of ways, and depending on the type of sword those ways can be exponentially different from each other. so what if we have 3 sword users out of 40+ character, yah thats way to many sword fighters we should get rid of them all. yah and since mario and donkey kong both punch and kick they play exactly the same, so because samus and captain falcon are bounty hunters they play exactly the same. we also don't even know if marth and roy are coming back. if your logic is correct, then anyone with a gun plays the same, anyone who uses fire plays exactly the same. your logic makes no ****ing sense sir, and you should be slapped for it. play some soul calibur two and you'll see how different sword users can be from each other and stop being so god ****ed close minded
Your line of thought is...rather odd. I am not being closed minded. We had four swordsmen in Brawl, and I already felt that was too much. Link and Young Link were fine because they did some different things, and they had items as well. Roy and Marth were very boring with their swordplay. It was like...uptilt: swing sword up, downtilt: swing sword down, smash a: swing sword hard. It felt very bland. And if that is the way Goroh would play, too (which I imagine that's what the developers were thinking, too), then I would rather him be absent.

block of text, block of text...

I was mocking your argument by saying we didn't need a buttload of the same type of character. I don't need to go into why Mario and DK's moves are different from one another. I think you're just being silly with what you are saying. I honestly cannot picture how Goroh with a sword would be different than Marth. He would hold the sword differently and have different stats, but it's the same basic idea.

fyi, genius, we basically already do have 3 swordsmen for Brawl.

edit: oh, and don't degrade Smash by comparing it to Soul Caliber.
 

Gypsy Lee

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
2,331
Location
Bethany, West Virginia
Go grim. I'd help you defend Black Shadow, but I'm a hillbilly so I don't speak good Engrish, therefore, I cannot get my point across, or for that matter, sound smart whilst doing so.

Anywho, I love the F-Zero franchise, and I think it deserves another character. I'd love to see anybody from that series......*sigh*......even Black Shadow. People *cough*Wiseguy*cough* shouldn't be resorting to putting down a franchise or a character just because they don't like a specific character.
 

Wiseguy

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 28, 2007
Messages
2,245
Location
Saint John, New Brunswick, Canada (Proud
Go grim. I'd help you defend Black Shadow, but I'm a hillbilly so I don't speak good Engrish, therefore, I cannot get my point across, or for that matter, sound smart whilst doing so.

Anywho, I love the F-Zero franchise, and I think it deserves another character. I'd love to see anybody from that series......*sigh*......even Black Shadow. People *cough*Wiseguy*cough* shouldn't be resorting to putting down a franchise or a character just because they don't like a specific character.
I would never put down the F-Zero franachise. It's one of my favorite Nintendo series. I'm just pointing out that it has a relatively small fanbase in the grand scheme of things, so having only one rep isn't improbable.

My hatred of BS is another matter altogether. It is a hatred without any justifiable reasoning, it just IS.

However that doesn't change the fact that Goroh was the last, best hope for the F-Zero series, and with him MIA we are once again left with Falcon as the lone rep for his series.
 

ClarkJables

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 17, 2007
Messages
1,669
Location
Texas
Thanks for ignoring what I said and taking my words out of context. :bigthumbu



Your line of thought is...rather odd. I am not being closed minded. We had four swordsmen in Brawl, and I already felt that was too much. Link and Young Link were fine because they did some different things, and they had items as well. Roy and Marth were very boring with their swordplay. It was like...uptilt: swing sword up, downtilt: swing sword down, smash a: swing sword hard. It felt very bland. And if that is the way Goroh would play, too (which I imagine that's what the developers were thinking, too), then I would rather him be absent.

block of text, block of text...

I was mocking your argument by saying we didn't need a buttload of the same type of character. I don't need to go into why Mario and DK's moves are different from one another. I think you're just being silly with what you are saying. I honestly cannot picture how Goroh with a sword would be different than Marth. He would hold the sword differently and have different stats, but it's the same basic idea.

fyi, genius, we basically already do have 3 swordsmen for Brawl.

edit: oh, and don't degrade Smash by comparing it to Soul Caliber.
ok 1, that is what you said, nothing was taken out of context
2, the fact that you can't imagine goroh being different from marth proves your closemindedness.
3, so far there is one confirmed swordsman in brawl, not three
4, i was not comparing smash to soul calibur and in your words, "Thanks for ignoring what I said and taking my words out of context. :bigthumbu"
 

Gypsy Lee

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
2,331
Location
Bethany, West Virginia
ClarkJables, what does your argument have to with Black Shadow? LOL, if you want to rant about Samurai Goroh, visit the spam infested Samurai Goroh Thread.

And, Wiseguy, having an injustifiable reason for hating someone doesn't mean you should go to that character's thread and fill it with half a**ed arguments why they shouldn't be in Brawl. You know that everything you have brought up wouldn't apply if we were talking about someone else. Put you bias aside my friend, then tell me if there is really a reason why Black Shadow shouldn't be in the game. :)
 

Wiseguy

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 28, 2007
Messages
2,245
Location
Saint John, New Brunswick, Canada (Proud
ClarkJables, what does your argument have to with Black Shadow? LOL, if you want to rant about Samurai Goroh, visit the spam infested Samurai Goroh Thread.

And, Wiseguy, having an injustifiable reason for hating someone doesn't mean you should go to that character's thread and fill it with half a**ed arguments why they shouldn't be in Brawl. You know that everything you have brought up wouldn't apply if we were talking about someone else. Put you bias aside my friend, then tell me if there is really a reason why Black Shadow shouldn't be in the game. :)
Hey, can't I just rant about a character I hate like everyone else on the internets for a change? Oh well...

Well, I suppose my reasoning is that if there was going to be a second F-Zero rep, Goroh would be more worthy since he has been with the series since the beggining and is more commonly associated as Falcon's rival. Since we know that the obvious choice for the second F-Zero rep is an AT, it seems to me that a less known character from the same series has significantly less chances of being included - therefore the most likely scenario is that Faclon will remain the sole rep for his series. This means BS, Pico and all characters in the series very likely will not be included.

Also, Black Shadow sucks.
 

Gypsy Lee

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
2,331
Location
Bethany, West Virginia
Yeah, but that argument is nullified by the fact that Black Shadow appeared on Sakurai's poll and Samurai Goroh didn't. That, to me, seems like a good reason to include Black Shadow as a character and Goroh as a NPC. So, would you care to agree to disagree that Goroh was more deserving, but wasn't popular enough to be included as a playable character, so he was made into an Assist Trophy? And that Black Shadow has a chance, albeit a small one, to still be a character even though he's a generic Batman rip off?
 

ClarkJables

Smash Lord
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Mar 17, 2007
Messages
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Texas
yah and links uncle and the floating head from brain age were also on the poll which was japanese only i might add, so i don't think the poll is law, hell the top characters on the melee poll were null in melee

and goroh had tons of fans who wanted him in, don't you remember the day goroh as at'd, there were people sobbing everywhere, hell that was the day i started to hate sakurai, but then he revealed bowser
 

Inkslinger

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 17, 2004
Messages
591
Location
Los Angeles (310)
actually the top 1 or 2 of each franchise of the melee poll appeared in the game (with the exception of 1 or 2 franchises).

BS being in the poll perhaps boosts his chances, thought Sakurai did throw in some wacky characters in there like master hand, BS wasn't one of them. Perhaps he's more important than Goroh because he's the latest villan?

I don't know nor care, i feel that f-zero should solely have CF, but i'm still addressing points that are in BS's favor.
 

Wiseguy

Smash Champion
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Mar 28, 2007
Messages
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Saint John, New Brunswick, Canada (Proud
Yeah, but that argument is nullified by the fact that Black Shadow appeared on Sakurai's poll and Samurai Goroh didn't. That, to me, seems like a good reason to include Black Shadow as a character and Goroh as a NPC. So, would you care to agree to disagree that Goroh was more deserving, but wasn't popular enough to be included as a playable character, so he was made into an Assist Trophy? And that Black Shadow has a chance, albeit a small one, to still be a character even though he's a generic Batman rip off?
Sakurai answered one BS fan's email, which is which is why his name is on the list. The fact that one guy recomends him doesn't make him more popular...

Will I admit there is a small chance? Yes. Emphasis on the word "small".
 

the grim lizard

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 26, 2004
Messages
3,130
Get a clue, dude...

ok 1, that is what you said, nothing was taken out of context
2, the fact that you can't imagine goroh being different from marth proves your closemindedness.
3, so far there is one confirmed swordsman in brawl, not three
4, i was not comparing smash to soul calibur and in your words, "Thanks for ignoring what I said and taking my words out of context. :bigthumbu"
1. You did take it out of context because I said that Sakurai wasn't going to leave anyone behind he thought should be a playable character. I SAID that he has likely already had the roster set for some time, and that he has already included the character he saw fit; I said nothing about "OH oh, h3 is ttly g0n1g 2 @dd A!! the ch@rtrz fr0m teh p011z!!1one" Here's how you interpreted it:

ok so because brawl is a different game sakurai is only going to put characters in who were on the poll. that makes allot of sense, i can't wait to play link's uncle and dr. kawaski from brain age now...
Thus, I say you took it out of context.

2. Goroh would be boring and generic; you've made no other retort other than "Nuh uh! that's not true!!" A Katana is just visually different, but he's still swinging around a sword.

3. Confirmed: Link and Meta Knight (that's more than one, fyi); likely swordsman candidates for Brawl: Ganondorf, Marth, Ike...take your pick. We'll likely have three already.

4. You said:
oplay some soul calibur two and you'll see how different sword users can be from each other
Thus, you did compare them; otherwise there is no reason to bring that up. They are two COMPLETELY different types of games. We don't have to do a button combination to perform something; thus it becomes just more slashing a sword around. DON'T compare them. That's what I said. For further argument, see #2.

yah and links uncle and the floating head from brain age were also on the poll which was japanese only i might add, so i don't think the poll is law, hell the top characters on the melee poll were null in melee
Not true, have you ever LOOKED at the Melee poll?? Bowser, Peach, Mewtwo, and Marth (and I think some others, perhaps) were all at the top of the poll and were all included. Some of those skipped over were incredibly lame (like Koopa Troopa) or owned by a 3rd party (like James Bond).

and goroh had tons of fans who wanted him in, don't you remember the day goroh as at'd, there were people sobbing everywhere, hell that was the day i started to hate sakurai, but then he revealed bowser
Wrong again. Most people in the Goroh thread on Monday came to mock the lack of the character as a PC. Most weren't too upset. In fact, the only people on monday who were really upset at all were Ridley fans because they didn't want him to be downgraded to an AT.
 

Inkslinger

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 17, 2004
Messages
591
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Los Angeles (310)
Well i'm sure he got more than 1 vote...

Also they really place characters on the poll based on the email sakurai received? I thought the poll was based on characters that were popular/suggested and sakurai felt they had a chance in (the wacky characters being a joke Sakurai wanted to make)
 

Wiseguy

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Mar 28, 2007
Messages
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Saint John, New Brunswick, Canada (Proud
Well i'm sure he got more than 1 vote...

Also they really place characters on the poll based on the email sakurai received? I thought the poll was based on characters that were popular/suggested and sakurai felt they had a chance in (the wacky characters being a joke Sakurai wanted to make)
Oh the poll was real - but the full results were never released. We only know what a hundred or so of those polled, because their character choice was displayed when Sakurai responded to their e-mail on his old Japanese website.

I'm positive that some people voted for Goroh as well - Sakurai just didn't respond to their e-mails.
 

Inkslinger

Smash Ace
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Sure was real.... I'm almost certain the top placers will appear in brawl.

Hmm what also went against Goroh is that he really wasn't that original with the sword and all, maybe sakurai felt that way thus didn't respond (perhaps already planned a cameo appereance). This leads me to believe that Sakurai felt more interested in having BS as a character more so than Goroh, because he actually responded to the mail concerning BS.
Really i hope he doesn't decide to include him in the end, but i have doubts.
 

the grim lizard

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 26, 2004
Messages
3,130
I didn't see this until just now...

yah and links uncle and the floating head from brain age were also on the poll which was japanese only i might add, so i don't think the poll is law, hell the top characters on the melee poll were null in melee
That's funny because I own Brain Age, which I bought at my local games retailer in the United States. In fact, I have a brain age of 20 (which is the best score, by the way)...
 

Shuma

Smash Hero
Joined
May 12, 2007
Messages
5,407
You may hate Black Shadow, but the japanese seem to love him. 'nuff sayd.

Also Goroh is just a thief and Falcon's rival, nothing more. Black Shadow is the nemesis and villain in the games.

Now with Goroh an AT, Black Shadow's chances have increased.
 

ClarkJables

Smash Lord
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Mar 17, 2007
Messages
1,669
Location
Texas
Get a clue, dude...



1. You did take it out of context because I



Thus, I say you took it out of context.

2. Goroh would be boring and generic; you've made no other retort other than "Nuh uh! that's not true!!" A Katana is just visually different, but he's still swinging around a sword.

3. Confirmed: Link and Meta Knight (that's more than one, fyi); likely swordsman candidates for Brawl: Ganondorf, Marth, Ike...take your pick. We'll likely have three already.


Not true, have you ever LOOKED at the Melee poll?? Bowser, Peach, Mewtwo, and Marth (and I think some others, perhaps) were all at the top of the poll and were all included. Some of those skipped over were incredibly lame (like Koopa Troopa) or owned by a 3rd party (like James Bond).
1, you've done nothing but say "yuh ah it is true" which is what i've been trying to show you, just because you say he would be boring and generic doesn't mean that he would, and since when would he only swing around a sword. goroh is a big guy, so he could easily mix some hand-to-hand combat into his swordsmanship
2, it doesn't matter how many likely we have, you said we have three which is not true atm.
3, what about ridley, diddy, and metaknight

ok now i am done arguing with you grim lizard, cause it looks like if i don't this will go on untill brawl comes out
 

MookieRah

Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
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Umeå, Sweden
Is it just me, or are people talking a lot about "clones". Didn't Sakurai specifically say he didn't want to have clones this time around? Or at least reduce their numbers? Yet all I hear is how all these characters would make good "clones."

As far as Black Shadow goes, yeah, he is uninspiring, but for people who have gotten involved with the F-Zero series since the N64/Gamecube days, they are going to know about him more than Goroh, seeing as BS is a main villain involved. Lets say it together people "Age demographic."

Honestly I don't see what is so great about Goroh either. Someone already posted about the lacking of personality of the F-Zero games and it's sickeningly true. Hell, they were originally just goofy characters made that you never actually got to see in the first game. Honestly, I'd rather play a crazy Batman wannabe than some kind of goofy *** chunky samurai XD.

[sarcasm]
I like how Wiseguy is an expert speculator. I mean, with his own thread and all that definitely makes him the leading man when it comes to Brawl predictions for sure!!
[/sarcasm]
 

the grim lizard

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 26, 2004
Messages
3,130
just because you say he would be boring and generic doesn't mean that he would, and since when would he only swing around a sword. goroh is a big guy, so he could easily mix some hand-to-hand combat into his swordsmanship
Two words: Assist Trophy.

buuuurrnnnn
 

Gypsy Lee

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
2,331
Location
Bethany, West Virginia
Two words: **** You.

buuuurn

Three words: Go **** Yourself.

buuuurn

Four words: Shut the **** Up.

buuuurn


Three burns in a row, ClarkJables. Wouldn't that be considered a Third-Degree Burn?
 

bksands77

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 29, 2007
Messages
313
fzero always needed more reps, i say black shadow would be great and/or deathborn because deathborn is awesome
 

Shuma

Smash Hero
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May 12, 2007
Messages
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Of course he would be awesome, he is Nintendo's Darth Vader. But does he has a chance? he has appeared in only one game that i know of.
 

Shuma

Smash Hero
Joined
May 12, 2007
Messages
5,407
Yes you're right, but look at my sig, those are characters that i would whant in SSBB and have a good chance of getting in, i'm not a big fan of BS, but he could be an "ok" char in Brawl, that and although he is a lame villain that doesn't matter in brawl.

Unless there's a weird storyline in it... and although i would like Deathborn to be in, he has appeared in only one game, and he isn't a very important character.

I mean... can you say no to this?:



You know... **** BS, i'll make a Deathborn sig and support him, hell yes.
 

Ridley22

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 28, 2006
Messages
518
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...
I think just because Goro isn't playable, Black Shadow will be and he will have Ganondorf's old moveset.
 
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