Betraying the Secrets of the Kong

[Praxis]

Sorry, guys.

I'm sick of everyone whining when I win because they're bad, so I'm helping them.

 

[Searing_Sorrow]

Or pick diddy, charge your own up b, then profit. If your competent, he will never return. I actually choose platform cancel over ledge 9/10 and don't start sweet spotting till opponent adapts. Way to make life harder praxis. -13 cool points. Oh well now that they know, they should know why being able to intentionally setup misfire is important to recovering. Sure misfire is not needed, but is a symbol of the character like link's auto projectile block, and can be useful in matches.

 

[Soft Serve]

Ty praxis, I'm just going to link this image everytime someone is salty. I had vauge plans to do something similar but never got around to it, instead I'm helping the Ness boards with the Diddy MU because other than byronato, NZA, reslived and a few others, they just whine about everything lol.

also stealing this to post in our az facebook page

 

[Praxis]

Way to make life harder praxis. -13 cool points.

Way I see it, the best players in my region already do it right, so everyone else is just teaching me bad habits by doing it wrong.

I yelled at everyone in my region to tech my bananas so I wouldn't develop bad (fsmash) habits for the same reason.

 

[Searing_Sorrow]

Way I see it, the best players in my region already do it right, so everyone else is just teaching me bad habits by doing it wrong.

I yelled at everyone in my region to tech my bananas so I wouldn't develop bad (fsmash) habits for the same reason.

Unless its the why and bother setup(banana on each side of a teching opponent), I don't think I even use forward smash. That is a good idea to do, in your region. Now what will the rest of us do, when we are challenged in our free win battles and forced to become more creative with followups besides derp dash and forward smash. now you reveal the many flaws of up b. We may end up using brawl offensive upb at this rate, and having bread n butters if you keep this up.

 

[Praxis]

Unless its the why and bother setup(banana on each side of a teching opponent), I don't think I even use forward smash. That is a good idea to do, in your region. Now what will the rest of us do, when we are challenged in our free win battles and forced to become more creative with followups besides derp dash and forward smash. now you reveal the many flaws of up b. We may end up using brawl offensive upb at this rate, and having bread n butters if you keep this up.

It's actually a good move. It has a ton of range and can't be punished on shield. But I mostly uses it in edge cases for hard reads.

 

[Searing_Sorrow]

It's actually a good move. It has a ton of range and can't be punished on shield. But I mostly uses it in edge cases for hard reads.

The fear of SDI combined with its constant prone to wiffing is why I don't really use it without a banana around. Not to mention the first hit will clank with 1% attacks, and gets beat by other smash attacks. It serves its purposes on hard read it hits like an ike attack, but its still a dangerous move.

 

[Praxis]

The fear of SDI combined with its constant prone to wiffing is why I don't really use it without a banana around. Not to mention the first hit will clank with 1% attacks, and gets beat by other smash attacks. It serves its purposes on hard read it hits like an ike attack, but its still a dangerous move.

If you only aim to hit with the last hitbox (the one with the most range), you don't need to worry about SDI

 

[DeFish]

If you try to chop out of side-b and they DI behind Diddy, they actually set up to get hit by the initial body hitbox of up-b. Hilarity ensues. I actually really like using it against floatier characters, for some reason it feels like it kills them sooner than fair does.

 

[Searing_Sorrow]

If you try to chop out of side-b and they DI behind Diddy, they actually set up to get hit by the initial body hitbox of up-b. Hilarity ensues. I actually really like using it against floatier characters, for some reason it feels like it kills them sooner than fair does.

Up b is a great option on floaties, if used properly, they are too slow to punish even on block. Platform cancels make it great at baiting as well, similar to side b mind games.

 

[DeFish]

It's also nice on space animals as a follow up to up-throw, once you can't really chain grab anymore. Honestly, I just think it's an amazing move. I was playing last night without using bananas to try to work on general spacing, and I actually found myself comboing into up-b a lot, since I wasn't trying to use banana setups to fair/f-smash.

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

I actually believe the depiction is somewhat inaccurate; Diddy's sweetspot range on upB is ridiculously huge, blue line could actually be inaccurate, but hey it's not supposed to be completely on point.

Regardless this thread and pic don't matter since Diddy's already getting nerfed, so WHEEEEEE

Hopefully they do fix his upB sweetspot bug though.

 

[Praxis]

I actually believe the depiction is somewhat inaccurate; Diddy's sweetspot range on upB is ridiculously huge, blue line could actually be inaccurate, but hey it's not supposed to be completely on point.

Regardless this thread and pic don't matter since Diddy's already getting nerfed, so WHEEEEEE

Hopefully they do fix his upB sweetspot bug though.

What? You must be kidding. The sweet spot range is tiny and most diddies don't sweet spot.

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

What? You must be kidding. The sweet spot range is tiny and most diddies don't sweet spot.

{These two are both at generally the same range; Diddy can grab slightly farther than this during it. Falco falls. Falco has the average Melee character's sweetspot range. Pit's sweetspot range is crazy too, but Diddy's upB can be done from a very far range and still grab the ledge. Most characters with upward recoveries that go into specialfall cannot sweetspot if their upB is done anywhere near the lip of the ledge, or even close to it. Diddy can.}

 

[Praxis]

{These two are both at generally the same range; Diddy can grab slightly farther than this during it. Falco falls. Falco has the average Melee character's sweetspot range. Pit's sweetspot range is crazy too, but Diddy's upB can be done from a very far range and still grab the ledge. Most characters with upward recoveries that go into specialfall cannot sweetspot if their upB is done anywhere near the lip of the ledge, or even close to it. Diddy can.}

We're using the term sweetspot differently, then.

When I say sweetspot, I mean "grab the ledge from the furthest possible position, such that a Marth fsmash or dtilt will not hit you if Marth is doing it repeatedly on the ledge."

The "sweetspot" (grabbing the ledge from a longer than normal distance) in your image would still get hit by a Marth fsmash or tilt.

It's very hard for Diddy to grab the ledge without his hurtbox protruding.

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

That's what I meant, yes. The range at which Diddy up sweetspots is enormous, and it also has had many issues in the past due to the way his up had to undergo changes in early unreleased builds. Many Brawl characters have ridiculous sweetspot ranges and/or windows right now, and I believe Diddy's is one of the largest in both ways.

As far as safe sweetspotting, which is probably what you meant, of course this isn't too safe, but it's an option most characters don't have. Lucario can recover in many, many ways with a single up, but if he tries to simply upB in an arc that either tricks them or avoids attacks, he probably won't make it like Diddy can (because you can even control his movement during the descent, and the sweetspot window on his upB is so long). He's one of the only examples I can think of with an upB that is manueverable and manipulatable during the entirety of the upB while still going into special fall.

This is also the only reason why DA offstage into upB is so lenient. You can do an uncharged, 90 degree upB from any range DA offstage covers, and even add in a double jump before upB. Yes, you could just jump +dair, but upB is a safer option and if dair is done too late, certain characters will either reverse gimp you for doing so, or make it back before you do and kill you. (Mewtwo, Sonic, Mario on walled stages, etc.)

 

[Searing_Sorrow]

Diddy's sweet spot is pretty average like falco's except more above the stage, which defeats the whole purpose of sweet spotting. Even falco has a larger range both horizontal and under the stage to grab the ledge. Ask diddy how great sweet spotting above the stage is when battling link's up b
BTW due to the improved quality of the picture by adding a turnip, we are reimbursing Praxis 13 cool points. And adding 5 more for the rational and for signing a waver never to reveal any more harmful to the player secrets. How many marth mains post the proper way to d.I his throws even with melee being out for years?

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

Are we talking safe sweetspotting or regular sweetspotting. Because sweetspot as a term simply means the furthest from the ledge they can grab during the recovery move. That doesn't mean -safe- sweetspotting, which I'm sure we all know as not being above the ledge at all. But this is my point; Diddy's sweetspot range is actually entirely ridiculous, as is half the Brawl characters right now.

No one's saying upB above the ledge is very safe at all. I would be crazy. But it IS an option that most if not all characters don't have.

 

[Praxis]

Are we talking safe sweetspotting or regular sweetspotting. Because sweetspot as a term simply means the furthest from the ledge they can grab during the recovery move. That doesn't mean -safe- sweetspotting, which I'm sure we all know as not being above the ledge at all. But this is my point; Diddy's sweetspot range is actually entirely ridiculous, as is half the Brawl characters right now.

No one's saying upB above the ledge is very safe at all. I would be crazy. But it IS an option that most if not all characters don't have.

You're using a definition for sweetspotting that is contrary to how it is commonly used in conversation, though. When people say "sweetspotting" they are talking about safe sweetspotting. Who cares of Diddy technically has a great sweetspot window range if it's extremely hard to actually sweetspot safely?

If Falcon was able to sweetspot the ledge on his entire way down, would his recovery be much better? No, because he'd get fsmashed by Marth just as much.


To explain what I mean about common usage in speech:

If Marth A up-B's to the ledge, and goes a pixel too high, and Marth B fsmashes him, you don't say "oh, he sweetspotted too high". You say "oh, he missed the sweetspot." Because in common language, "sweetspot" means the safe sweetspot.


Using the terminology the way you're doing it makes Diddy's recovery sound deceptively safe/good.

 

[fraggle]

Praxis is right..The Safe sweet spot is hard to get but the way 3.02 is most characters have a safe sweet spot that would probably be considered too far away by most melee players standards. Even melee chars (marth) have a sweet spot that looks a little weird at times because its so far away. I try and explain this to other people...if you look at the ledge and draw a circle around it the bottom half of the circle is able to sweet spot from a little to far away by the entire cast....its hard to do but def possible...try it with the chars that you play and you will be shocked

 

[GeZ]

Sweet spots need nerfs. I flubbed an input during a friendly a week ago and with Mario Up B'd > wall jumped > Up B'd away from the stage and I reverse snapped to ledge. What the **** is that range even? P:MDT please.

 

[KHL]

Sweetspots are bugged also. I'm not sure how much the sweet spot range has to do with this, but I played a Mario in tournament last week, was hit in freefall by something and had my back to the ledge nowhere close, then sweetspotted, then teleported to the middle of the stage (dream land).

anyway jesus christ I get so much mileage out of people not knowing how to edgeguard Diddy that I have the worst recovery habits. most people either try to predict when I'll release upB and throw out an unnecessarily laggy move so I can just get back, or they'll respect the upB hitbox too much when it's very much past its charge and not throw anything out.

it's also unacceptable to get command grabbed offstage

to everyone johning about deep kong, spend 15 minutes learning how to edgeguard him and the matchup will be so much more fun.

 

[fraggle]

the only part about sweet spotting w diddy that is really good is that you can still grab the ledge when you are fading away at the very top of your up b....its god against chars like roy who just have to charge neutral b at the ledge. the rest of the sweet spot stuff the rest of the cast also has so its not to broken because most of the cast can grab in crazy ways.