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Best Buy Demo Discussion - What do you think of Greninja in Smash 4?

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Krynxe

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This thread is to discuss your thoughts on Greninja from the playable demo at Best Buy. Please visit the other characters boards to discuss different characters.

---

With the playable demos on Wednesday, June 11 and Saturday, June 14, smashers who couldn't attend e3 will have the chance to experience Super Smash Brothers for the Wii U hands on for the first time.


- For information, Click here.
- To find a location near you, Click here.
 

EchoesOfRain

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First of all, controls were overall hard to get used to. There were no gamecube controllers, so looking at a 3ds button layout, X and Y were jump, A and B were attacks. It was very awkward, reaching over the attack buttons to jump. Forced me into using the joystick to jump.

Secondly, Greninja definitely does have some end lag on his moves. His counter, while leaving you very vulnerable if nobody hits you, is very strong, and has really good knockback. His Dair doesn't seem to go through platforms, like sonic or ZSS. Also, I couldn't really figure out how to properly use his >B. I wish I was able to study him more, but with everyone trying to play with awkward controls, the match was pure chaos.

Oh, and we each got to play a round of smash run against cpu on 3ds! His Dair dominates smash run, as you can chain them as you please.
 

relaxedexcorcist

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I played Greninja in smash run. Here's just my quick thoughts I posted in another thread.

Greninja's nair (which I don't think we've seen yet) is similar to Mewtwo's nair. Greninja struck a pose and a ball of water appeared inside him and dealt multiple hits. Again this is in smash run so I don't know how it will knock away actual opponents. His U-air is an upwards drill kick like Samus. Seems to link together well. Also know how Shadow Sneak works specifically. After you hit B to start it. A shadow appears on the ground that you can move around. This is where Greninja will re-appear when you let go of the B button. It also seemed to work differently in the air but I didn't get to try it much. His up-special is like a combination of Pikachu and Lucarios. He can only move in a straight line like Pikachu but he can still turn at certain point just by trying to change direction like Lucario.
 

Raziek

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Greninja:
Bair is great. Fast, great range, excellent for edge guards.
Fair is a bit slow, but has decent range/power.
Uair is amazing and I was able to get a few legit follow ups from throws/other moves.
Dair (hereforth known as Footdive) is actually pretty good for a stall n' fall, and you can move freely after bouncing. Can probably chain it on big characters at specific percents.
Smashes seem okay. U-Smash seems good, D-Smash has a booty hitbox and is kinda slow.
F-Smash has decent range, but it also a bit slow and not that strong.
F-tilt has fast start-up and great range, but awful recovery.
D-tilt is way too short-range to be used as a poke.
U-tilt is like a smaller version of DK's u-tilt.
His throws all seem decent, and I'm somewhat confident you can get follow-ups from them.
Side-B can be held to travel additional distance. Gren can still move while doing this, but he can only walk slowly. Releasing the button activates the attack. Pretty fast. Apparently his shadow moves while he's charging it, to indicate where he'll appear.
Water shur is great, good aerial mobility while charging.
 

Jigglymaster

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I played both Greninja on the 3DS and Wii U, 1 match for each. This is what I experianced.

On the 3DS version Greninja's U-air actually spiked Megaman. Megaman was above me and I hit him with it and it sent him flying downwards to the ground before I even touched it. This didn't happen again in the Wii U version tho so perhaps it was a certain hit of Greninja's U-air? It was a multihitting move, almost like Fox's U-air but with more hits.

Greninja's down throw seemed to have combo potential, maybe even a chain throw idk. I was able to combo down throw into rapid jab.

His forward B, Shadow Sneak, I could not seem to use any attacks while charging the move, it's super predictable because of the shadow on the ground that appears. Also when used in the Air the shadow still appears on the, but instead of appearing where the shadow is, he appeared above it, depending on how high he is when he teleports, not when he first activates it.

Also im an idiot and forgot to try Water shuriken. But yeah thats all I really noticed at this point, a demo is a demo so this can all easily change the next time we play it.
 

Mr.Seven

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I had the most fun with Greninja. He's definitely the character I'm going to main. He was also the only character I won matches with. :p
 

KERO

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At our Best Buy, we got two rounds of two minute matches; I managed to get through the line twice, but I split my attention between Oli (Brawl main) and Greninja (likely my Smash 4 main). I did play the 3DS version twice, though. Once on Smash and once on Smash Run (the latter is where I tried figuring out Shadow Sneak), both times using Greninja. Anyway, I've already made an analysis once, so I'm just gonna copy paste my thoughts I posted on FB:

So Greninja: Way passed cool/fast. Like, holy hell this frog got mobility, even more than I expected from the trailer (and I already thought he would have quite a bit). He jumps high, he got ridiculous air speed, and his ground speed is great, too. I could basically maneuver around the stage really easily, to the point where you can basically jump the length of BF without using Up-B (or at least almost that far). I ain't a Melee player, so handling the sheer speed of this character was a challenge. Couple things I guess I can make note of: his jab is great. It's kinda like Mega Man's in that it seems disjointed, but it finishes like Fox's and other multi-hit jabs. Greninja's Dair is damn great. It bounces off enemies automatically, and it has little land lag (about as much as Oli Uair I felt). His Fsmash appears disjointed and quick, and his Usmash is has less ending lag than in the trailer (but still about as much as Sheik's Usmash if not a bit more). His side-b is really strange. From what I can tell, if you hold B, Greninja moves slowly, but the moment you let go, you go in whatever direction you were facing a distance determined by how long you held B (you can only hold it for about two seconds). His down-b is a counter, obviously, and you either get a log or a Substitute doll from it. These stay around for about ten seconds, but from what I can see, they can't be picked up, only attacked (and they get knocked back similarly to Sandbag).

Greninja's Up-B is also really neat. Not only does it keep momentum unlike Pika's, but if you simply hold one direction without changing it, Greninja keeps going in that direction for a while longer (it seemed about equivalent to the combined distance of the two pushes had you changed direction). Not sure about its hitbox, though. Other than that, exactly like Pika's minus the hurtbox weirdness. Water Shuriken is strange. It's the only chargeable attack that you can not save. Once you use it, you gotta throw it. However, it is the fastest charging move in the game, and damn is it powerful. The smaller ones can also be used for camping maybe. Not much range compared to other projectiles (think Brawl Wolf's Blaster range).

Other attacks: Utilt is big and quick. Nair is a good "get the hell away" move in the air, multi-hit. Dsmash is, of course, fast (at least I thought. Some are disagreeing). Never quite got to hit someone in kill range, though. Fsmash kills pretty well. Ftilt is a little laggy and awkward. Fair seems fairly similar to Mewtwo's in terms of starting and end lag, but I never really hit anyone with it. Didn't get a chance to really use Bair. Up Air is basically like Samus's from what I could tell. I did not really get a chance to test out his throws cause FFA with items, but his grab looks like it has a decent amount of reach. Taunts are pretty cool. His Final Smash is Mat Block+Ninja stuff.

Other stuff: Not a Melee or P:M player, so never really tried for combos. Also, didn't actually see the shadow when I was testing his Side-B on the 3DS, so forgive me failing to acknowledge that.

I'll be going back on Saturday and getting more experience with both characters (and focusing solely on Greninja for the 3DS), so I may post something new or just edit this once I get a couple things cleared up. From what I can tell in comparison to some others, I may have underestimated the amount of lag on some of Greninja's attacks.

Edit: Here's a video that shows off Shadow Sneak fairly well (at 7:22). I definitely got a better idea of how the move works now.
 
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T0MMY

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I rocked the Shiny color Greninja, wish I could give you guys a cool writeup, but with exploding items in a four player free-for-all match all I did was just press buttons and look at frames and effects of landing the attacks or whiffing with them. Kind of tried some things like short hopping the Water Shuriken but it is designed so that won't work, no landing cancels like Sheik enjoyed in Melee or Falco/Fox with their lasers.
Of course tried out that D-Air and being a past Melee pro and a current Project:M player (kinda) I wanted to see what sick combos I could pull out from it, but found it to be less friendly to combos that I expected as I bounced away. I am pretty sure this is the Bounce move from Pokemon. This also has KO potential, it KO'd at high damage, so maybe it could have some versatility at lower percents.
Love his U-Air, knew I would when I saw it was like Samus', heh heh heh..... heh heh heh.
All other attacks are well described in the above posts.
Should I post all the cool new future advanced techniques I find out here publicly or just keep them to myself?

Other points of interest:
  • Greninja has the froggiest crawl.
  • His U-tilt is Lick, maybe it has a 10% chance of paralysis? Tasty.
  • I have a 6-IV shiny Greninja for my Pokemon X team. Yep.
  • Water Shuriken reminds me of Ivysaur's Leaf Blade in Project: M. I hate that move when I get hit with it because it mult-hits on shield, but now I can love it as Greninja and my opponents can hate me for spamming it mercilessly.
  • This Greninja has Torrent, not Protean (not pronounced like "Pro-teen" guys, c'mon, it's pro-tee-an). My original Greninja build in X used Torrent and Substitute to cut his HP down low enough to hit them hard with a Water Shuriken while holding a Razor Fang. Maybe there is a way to hold a Razor Fang to get a 10% flinch on my attacks? Ribbit!
  • Greninja is a better ninja than that Sheik girl, and way sexier.
  • O_____O croak
 
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Ekans647

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I had to play with a Pro contoller, so I didn't the best feel of him. Despite this, I really enjoyed Greninja. He has an amazing aerial game, which is what I mainly employed, due to having problems with the Pro controller. My favorite move was definetly the Fair and Bair, they had great utility. I didn't get to see the reast of his set because of the problem of the Pro controller, but I'm maining him when Smash 4 comes out.
 

JesseMcCloud

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Does anyone know if Water Shuriken's charge can be shield cancelled/held, like Sheik's needles?
 

JesseMcCloud

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Kero says you can't a few posts above you.
Sorry, the wall of text was a bit too much for me.
Second, I asked a specific question regarding a move's mechanic that he didn't entirely address. Every other charge move in the game like DK's Giant Punch, Samus' Charge Shot, etc. automatically stops and is stored when at 100% charge. Except for Sheik's needles. That's why I asked if he'd tried the shield-cancelling technique.
 

relaxedexcorcist

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Sorry, the wall of text was a bit too much for me.
Second, I asked a specific question regarding a move's mechanic that he didn't entirely address. Every other charge move in the game like DK's Giant Punch, Samus' Charge Shot, etc. automatically stops and is stored when at 100% charge. Except for Sheik's needles. That's why I asked if he'd tried the shield-cancelling technique.
Oh my bad. Misunderstood you. To me though it still sounds like you can't considering he said "once you use it, you gotta throw it." I guess the quickest way to solve this is just ask @ KERO KERO .
 

KERO

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When it's completely charged, you let go of it automatically (edit: I THINK. I could be wrong on this, but you need to throw it at some point either way. Definitely will test on Saturday). You have to keep the button held down to charge it, much like Sheik's needles in Melee as was mentioned. If you release the button, Greninja releases the shot. You cannot shield during the charge time; you cannot roll during the charge time. You absolutely must throw it. On the other hand it takes about two and a half seconds to fully charge I think. Didn't really time it, but it charges really fast.

This was all tested on the 3DS version, and I'd assume it'd be the same for the Wii U version.

Also, Greninja can wall cling. Forgot to mention that.
 
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JesseMcCloud

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When it's completely charged, you let go of it automatically (edit: I THINK. I could be wrong on this, but you need to throw it at some point either way. Definitely will test on Saturday). You have to keep the button held down to charge it, much like Sheik's needles in Melee as was mentioned. If you release the button, Greninja releases the shot. You cannot shield during the charge time; you cannot roll during the charge time. You absolutely must throw it. On the other hand it takes about two and a half seconds to fully charge I think. Didn't really time it, but it charges really fast.

This was all tested on the 3DS version, and I'd assume it'd be the same for the Wii U version.

Also, Greninja can wall cling. Forgot to mention that.
Thank you for all the information. For a super-hyped fan like me, it's practically invaluable.
On the note of Water Shuriken, it would likely be OP if it didn't have some kind of drawback, considering its damage and knockback (as well as lockdown capabilities, like Ivy's Razor Leaf in P:M.)
Thanks again, @ KERO KERO .
 
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KERO

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Yeah, no problem haha. I was mega hyped the moment I heard the Ninja Frog announced, so I'm trying to learn everything about him I can. Yeah, I can see why Water Shuriken has the drawbacks it has. It charges fast enough as it is, so I'm fine with how they handled the move.
 

UltimateRazer

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I used Greninja for one of my matches that I won. I really liked his mobility. Controller was awkward so I couldn't fully move correctly. His up B seems hard to control and almost jagged. You'd need to be well versed with his recovery option. He has a unique special move set. Need to learn his side B more the timings for it. I find his projectile standard. It's good but not broken. Learn to use it when necessary.

And his final smash is hype!

Also, he doesn't have a green color it seems. Just his blue, red, a light red and black (awesome).
 
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Mocha

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I used Greninja for one of my matches that I won. I really liked his mobility. Controller was awkward so I couldn't fully move correctly. His up B seems hard to control and almost jagged. You'd need to be well versed with his recovery option. He has a unique special move set. Need to learn his side B more the timings for it. I find his projectile standard. It's good but not broken. Learn to use it when necessary.

And his final smash is hype!

Also, he doesn't have a green color it seems. Just his blue, red, a light red and black (awesome).
You're lucky you even got to play. I saw you playing there at Best Buy, but I was sooo far behind in line (even though I was there 20 minutes before they started), and they shut the doors at 9pm, so about 80+ people didn't get to play, which was BS. If I go back there tomorrow, I'm going to be there hooooours earlier, and I suggest you do too, again.

Anyway, I got the impression he was very mobile, which wasn't a surprise. I also noticed many people fail using his recovery - is it really that hard to use? Guess I can't speak for myself, if it's really a lot like Pikachu's, and I was fine with Pika's recovery in Brawl. And I never actually saw anyone grab with him - does he grab with his tongue? Lol
 
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young grasshopper

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You're lucky you even got to play. I saw you playing there at Best Buy, but I was sooo far behind in line (even though I was there 20 minutes before they started), and they shut the doors at 9pm, so about 80+ people didn't get to play, which was BS. If I go back there tomorrow, I'm going to be there hooooours earlier, and I suggest you do too, again.

Anyway, I got the impression he was very mobile, which wasn't a surprise. I also noticed many people fail using his recovery - is it really that hard to use? Guess I can't speak for myself, if it's really a lot like Pikachu's, and I was fine with Pika's recovery in Brawl. And I never actually saw anyone grab with him - does he grab with his tongue? Lol
no, he grabs with his hands and holds them in a whirlpool
 

SpaceJell0

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I was pretty trash with Greninja xD but I think it's because I didn't know his kill moves from his damage racking moves. (I shamefully got 4th place :/ )
UpTilt- Pretty quick and a good comboing move
SideTilt- The controller was awkward for me (especially the super sensitive or stiff Control Stick) so I kept doing Side Smashes instead but it seems fairly good like Samus's SideTilt
Downtilt- More of a combo starter and damage racker
UpAir- Basically Samus's Upair
FAir- Good kill move but I couldn't connect it enough to make a good analysis but it a slow startup so you have to time this move correctly or else you get punished
NAir- hits all around like Mewtwo's NAir but it's not multihit, it has decent knockback and is quick and good keepaway
DAir- Lol It's Tink's Dair all over again, pretty quick and solid move
Bair- Amazingly satisfying and good knockback and damage
SideSmash- Not terribly powerful but good keepaway, definitely not a killing move from my experience (or maybe I'm just not using it right :p)
DownSmash- Didn't get to land it but it seemed fairly powerful and hits on both sides at the same time
UpSmash- Very good range and pretty safe to use, decent knockback too
Neutral B- Water Shuriken is a very powerful multi hit move, fast chargeup too
SideB- I didn't spot the shadow everyone was talking about but it seems fairly good to surprise and teleport away (but moving with it makes it obvious you're doing sideB
DownB- I couldn't get the hang of timing Substitute so I couldn't land it, but my friends say that it's actually a killing move
UpB- Didn't use it at all cause I was on a walkoff stage xD
Dash Attack- Very quick but hits only low to the ground
Grab Game- I mostly used FThrows so I can't tell you about the other Throws but it seems to have low knockback and low damage but it is a very quick throwand it can catch opponents offguard

Overall Feel- Very combo heavy character with setups to kill moves. Of course he doesn't work too well on walkoffs in my experience (Boxing Ring isn't that good tbh but it's a fun place to mess around) but he might do better on more competitively viable stages and one on ones. EDIT: Forgot to mention that he isn't as easy to pick up as I thought he was, that's what led to my downfall as I treated him as a mixture of Falco and Sheik when he actually is unique and carries a learning curve. Looks are deceiving)
 
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Jade_Rock55

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Yay Greninja info!I love everything here except for not shielding during the shuriken.
 

EchoesOfRain

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I've got so much more respect now for Pink Greninja after somehow winning a 4-man sudden death, with all of the kills.

Also, we noticed something weird today. there were 2 of us playing greninja. In the sudden death round, he and i ended up being the last alive. At one point, he and I both activated our counters, not sure who was first, but my counter activated and killed him while he was vulnerable. I've no idea how that happened
 

Jade_Rock55

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His counter is so good it counters other counters,even his own!
 

MrGanon

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Wait... Say 2 greninja and 2 marth were in a battle and one marth attacks, greninja counters, the other marth counters the counter and the other greninja counters the countered counter, what would happen?
 

Jade_Rock55

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Does Greninja's counter have a multiplier like Brawl Marth or does it do set damage like melee Marth?
 
D

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Nair is worthless
Taunts are awesome
Pogo dair is so much fun to use
I really like his moveset, except that Water Shuriken cannot be saved. If it can, then I am awful at pro controller. I won both times I used him, and I can't wait to experiment with him more thoroughly when the game launches. New main for sure. Hopefully Greeninja will be ready then.

I love the way the announcer says; "Greninja" though.
 

KERO

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Alright, got to play a total of ten matches this time, taking notes in between my five times at the demo station. I tried to compile all of that, and hopefully I did an alright job. If you guys have any questions or need clarification, I'm happy to help. Do realize that any frame data approximations are just that, approximations based off of Brawl trying to juxtapose Greninja's slower moves with similar moves (Zelda's jab, MK's Fsmash, etc.,) and may not necessarily correct by the time the final game comes out (after all this is just one build). With that said, here is what I found:

Guess I'll start with Water Shuriken. Holy crap, this move is amazing. Takes a little less than two seconds to fully charge, has great knockback, and even cooler, if a fully charged one hits a shield or opponent, it slows down enough to where Greninja can actually run into it and attack the opponent getting hit by it. In the air, launching it cancels your momentum (do not know if this applies to knockback) and you bounce upward slightly. Also, when it's fully charged, it releases automatically. However, when messing around in Smash Run with it, it randomly did not auto-release. Don't know if it was a glitch or if I accidentally triggered some unknown way to not release it. I was able to wave bounce the Water Shuriken fairly easily.

Next, let's talk Smash attacks. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem that Greninja's Dsmash is much to write home about. It looks to come out only a bit faster than MK Fsmash, and it was unable to kill a Marth at around 100 on the very left side of BF, making its power resemble Yoshi's Dsmash with about as much range. His Fsmash, however, seems to have a decent amount of kill power, and its range definitely includes the water blade which means it's likely disjointed. Wish it had less start-up, though (a little less or on par with MK's Fsmash). Greninja's Usmash, I was unfortunately not able to assess in terms of knockback, but it has really fast start-up, and it actually hits opponent's above Greninja twice. That's all I really have on Greninja's Smashes.

Other Special Moves: So, I have confirmed that in the 3DS version, logs and Substitute Dolls can absolutely not be picked up. Interesting, his Counter move seems to always teleport him to the opponent, but I was unable to see if this also applied to projectiles. I also do not know if the opponent is able to shield it or not. Shadow Sneak is, again, a really interesting move. Within a second, it seemed that it already reached its maximum distance, but Greninja is able to hold it for a second or two longer. The shadow seems to move about as fast as Greninja runs. It seems to have some cooldown (definitely punishable if shielded), especially in the air (I'd say there's quite a bit more in the air than on the ground), where Side-B to Up-B is not viable because of the cool down from side-b. Interestingly, unlike Fox's tweaked Side-B, Greninja's Shadow Sneak can have him teleport off ledges even if he's grounded. Wouldn't be surprised if this changed in the final build. Up-B has slightly less landing lag if you go down to the stage during it rather than falling on it when in a helpless state. Also, the water from the Up-B does damage and stun but no perceivable knockback from what I could tell. Greninja himself does not have a hitbox during Up-B.

Quick note about jab: Greninja has both a multihit jab and a regular three hit jab, both seemingly disjointed.

Tilts: Dtilt seems to be very similar to Lucario's, but Pro Controller made it hard to pull off tilts at times, so I was unable to land it. Ftilt can be angled, but it is still a fairly awkward move. Utilt, because of tap jump and Pro controller, was very hard to pull off, but has a very small hitbox in front of Greninja at the end aside from the obvious hitbox above him.

Aerials: So, first of all: Nair is NOT a multhit move. Rather, it seems to be similar to a generic "get away move," little start-up, not much range, not much knockback, about as much as Kirby's in Brawl, or cooldown. I was unable to really hit anyone with Fair, but it has about thirteen to fifteen frames of start-up. Bair, though. I feel that Bair comes out faster than MK's Fair, if not it has just as much start-up. It also does not last long with little cooldown. Definitely one of Greninja's best aerials. Uair is also really cool. I think his entire body is a hitbox during Uair, but there is a slight chance I am wrong (if we could have someone verify this, it'd be great). Also, unlike Samus, Greninja is completely vertical during it. Like Bair, there is very little start-up (but a bit more than Bair I feel). However, on the Fire Emblem stage, I actually KO'd WFT at around 110% with it when I was only a little bit above the middle of the screen. It definitely looks like it has some nice KO potential. The only thing new about Dair is that I think I managed to get it to spike once or twice, and its landing lag is a little less than Brawl Marth Dair. Probably on par with Fair in terms of startup, if not, a little less.

Throws: Uthrow may set-up for combos at low percents but not at higher percents. Bthrow sends people too far away to do much. Fthrow, however, seems that it could lead into potential strings or combos. Dthrow is the important one. I'm almost certain that it has set knockback as I threw someone that was around 100%, and it put them right above just as it did an opponent at around 10ish. That said, it definitely seems like a good throw for set-ups.

General physics of Greninja: Fall speed is about on par with Brawl Fox, fast fall speed being between D3's fast fall speed and Fox's fast fall speed (closer to the latter). Greninja is able to dash dance.
 
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Neo Zero

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I liked his Nair a lot. It takes practice to use, but it's certainly not worthless.
 

Amical

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Sadly, I got to Best Buy late today, so I wasn't able to try the Wii U version. However, I still got to play Greninja on the 3DS! I love his mobility; super fast and great aerials, too. I was too caught up in the hype to use :substitute:, sadly, but I enjoyed it regardless.

His UAir and DAir are absolutely amazing in terms of fun and practicality. I love it.
His Water Shuriken is interesting in that you have to hold down the B button to charge it, and as soon as you let go, it fires.

Something interesting to note: it might be easy to tell when Gren is going to use Shadow Sneak, since he starts walking all ninja-like when you charge it. But I didn't really get that close of a look.


Anyway, I have some Matchup insight! I played against a Little Mac, and my goodness... Let's just say the advantage was super clear. Greninja beats him in range even on the ground for some moves, and if you can get Little Mac into the air... He's just done. Water Shuriken turned out to be a great spacing tool, since it was a bit big to try and dodge it (although I'm sure it's certainly possible), so I was able to make Mac jump over it a lot, thus forcing him into the air and letting me punish him hard. And, even better, in the few times where Mac managed to roll past the Shuriken, Greninja didn't have much lag, so it was still easy to punish him while he rolled. Still, spot dodging might be a different story, but I didn't see it happen.
The point is: Greninja beats Mac by a long shot just as we predicted, or so it seems.
 

EchoesOfRain

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Anyway, I have some Matchup insight! I played against a Little Mac, and my goodness... Let's just say the advantage was super clear. Greninja beats him in range even on the ground for some moves, and if you can get Little Mac into the air... He's just done. Water Shuriken turned out to be a great spacing tool, since it was a bit big to try and dodge it (although I'm sure it's certainly possible), so I was able to make Mac jump over it a lot, thus forcing him into the air and letting me punish him hard. And, even better, in the few times where Mac managed to roll past the Shuriken, Greninja didn't have much lag, so it was still easy to punish him while he rolled. Still, spot dodging might be a different story, but I didn't see it happen.
The point is: Greninja beats Mac by a long shot just as we predicted, or so it seems.
I can definitely see gren countering Mac. I'd love to see a mac try to use his knockout punch on greninja, only to get substituted on XD


Also, I think that greninja has potential to be a God of sudden death. That Shadow Sneak is deadly if the enemy doesnt see it coming, water shuriken gives good range and knockback/kill, and a well-timed counter will insta KO the enemy.
 

young grasshopper

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I can definitely see gren countering Mac. I'd love to see a mac try to use his knockout punch on greninja, only to get substituted on XD


Also, I think that greninja has potential to be a God of sudden death. That Shadow Sneak is deadly if the enemy doesnt see it coming, water shuriken gives good range and knockback/kill, and a well-timed counter will insta KO the enemy.
who knows, maybe sudden death will be tournament legal this time around:drshrug:
 
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KERO

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So, ThatGuyYouMightKnow made a post in the general discussion thread for Smash 4 Wii U about how Greninja canceled his landing lag with Side-B. Definitely something to note if it makes it into the final game (punishing punishes haha). He also provided this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mnXJVz9FnI&t=0m56s
 

MINUSTHEFIGHTER

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I only got one round with him at the bestbuy I played at (tried WFT in smash run), but holy **** I think I'm in love. His shuriken is so good, full charge pushed 2 of my opponents off.. Landed 2 counters (accidentally) since i was kinda mashing things out just trying em but wow, I was greatly impressed.

The wait for Smash4 just got a whole lot longer.
 
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