Benefits of Approaching With U-air

[tair20]

I need to work on mixing in the SH-Uair approach. So i've got a couple questions about it:

1. What percentages is it most effective at? Obviously its a launcher so im probably gonna be looking to follow it with either an nair, another upair, or a knee. maybe a dair if i can make the right read and look for a grab

2. Does it auto-cancel? ive seen mixed opinions on this, the most prevalent being that it does if you do not fast fall\

3. What advantages (or disadvantages) does it have over Sh-nair approach?

Also, im new to smashboards so hello all

 

[Nicco]

You might find this post useful

Uairs are kinda like swiss army knives. They have a ****ton of different uses, so it's hard to say even where to begin to tell you how to use them. Late uairs are good for mixing up with knee if the opponent might suspect u'll go for a knee and DI up. Late uairs in general are a pretty good defensive spacing tool and can work well against shields if you know how to mixup gentleman, jabs, or simple run-away on shield. Insta-uairs are an incredible anti-air part of falcon's game, it's basically just a short hop uair done as fast as possible so that the front part of uair can hit in front of you when it's out.

If you wanna practice instant uairs, plug in a second controller and try hitting a CPU Fox without fast-falling or delaying your uair. If you can do that, you have good instant uairs.

Also, uair is amazing in general when the opponent is above you, regardless of character. Against Sheik, how to combo is just basically following DI and spamming uairs, generally carrying her offstage where you can either knee her if she's at the right angle or set up an edgeguard if she's not.

Uair is a great tool with possibly too many uses to discuss. Practice it until you have it down pat and then explore some of those uses for yourself. Written advice rarely does much of the game knowledge justice IMO

 

[Nicco]

And yes, it does auto-cancel

 

[TobiasXK]

And you can sneak in a few frames of fastfall and still get the autocancel, I'm pretty sure.

 

[Smokey Huntz]

It's too iffy to tell to be frank. you have to keep playing and learn the situations in which it can be used properly

 

[Aggromidget]

Just thought of this, but late u-air from ledge is (in my opinion) amazing, and safe

 

[hood+]

don't try it against jiggs or a (crouching) shiek

i can't get it on fox either, maybe that's just me

 

[Aggromidget]

don't try it against jiggs or a (crouching) shiek

i can't get it on fox either, maybe that's just me

When I first played, I'd always get up with a knee, and it used to work. Then my mate learned to deal with it.
So I switched it up to n-air, and that worked too, until my mate learned to deal with that as well.
Both of these are (imo) unsafe to do on shield, or a jumping opponent.
I find that the late u-air covers a lot of space, and is easy to l-cancel into jab/grab/dash/roll. Even on shield.
However, if they're at low percents and crouch cancelling, you can easily be pushed back off stage. (I loathe being off stage.). If they're at low percents and crouch cancelling, I suggest a hard hitting aerial (stomp or knee), which I rediscovered recently, against a sheik, who'd throw out a d-smash near the edge when I'm on the edge. Free knee. Alternatively, haxdash/waveland on. Mix it up.
Of course, the late u-air from the ledge is just one use of approaching with u-air which I thought would be good to remind people about.

 

[Ziodyne]

there is actually a really good use for uair against shield that i've seen hax do multiple times

it's an instant uair that drifts in and out of shield grab range. it looks super-safe/non-commitment-heavy and does a fantastic job of smacking people if they try to jump OOS

 

[Windrose]

hax definitely has the best application of upairs. he uses upairs in so many different ways. instant upair oos or just instant sh upair is really useful and not used enough. Sometimes it's the only way you can get the upair to hit after an up-throw on marth or sheik at low percents.

 

[Aggromidget]

hax definitely has the best application of upairs. he uses upairs in so many different ways. instant upair oos or just instant sh upair is really useful and not used enough. Sometimes it's the only way you can get the upair to hit after an up-throw on marth or sheik at low percents.

there is actually a really good use for uair against shield that i've seen hax do multiple times

it's an instant uair that drifts in and out of shield grab range. it looks super-safe/non-commitment-heavy and does a fantastic job of smacking people if they try to jump OOS

My concern for instant u-airs is that they have to be above you. If you do it oos and they're on the ground, I don't see it hitting, unless they're bowser or dk. If they jump, they get hit. If they don't, they don't get hit, and perhaps they get a free grab. You control the area above you, but not in front with instant u-air
Ziodyne, does the instant u-air actually hit them (their shield) when they're grounded?

 

[Ziodyne]

My concern for instant u-airs is that they have to be above you. If you do it oos and they're on the ground, I don't see it hitting, unless they're bowser or dk. If they jump, they get hit. If they don't, they don't get hit, and perhaps they get a free grab. You control the area above you, but not in front with instant u-air
Ziodyne, does the instant u-air actually hit them (their shield) when they're grounded?

i wish i could link you some vids to show you, but i can't think of one off the top of my head since i've watch so many hax vs. fox vids

i have definitely heard hax or someone else say that a perfect instant uair should be able to clip a standing fox. i have definitely seen hax clip the top part of fox/falco's shield with an sh instant uair and then space away to avoid any possible shield punishment (and I DO MEAN GROUNDED).

it controls a very good portion of height to stuff short-hops or jumps in general from a grounded position

 

[Aggromidget]

i wish i could link you some vids to show you, but i can't think of one off the top of my head since i've watch so many hax vs. fox vids

i have definitely heard hax or someone else say that a perfect instant uair should be able to clip a standing fox. i have definitely seen hax clip the top part of fox/falco's shield with an sh instant uair and then space away to avoid any possible shield punishment (and I DO MEAN GROUNDED).

it controls a very good portion of height to stuff short-hops or jumps in general from a grounded position

If I'm being pressured from above, sure I'd use u-air. If they're in front really close by, I'd go with standing n-air, space that mid-air, and run away from pressure

 

[Hax]

instant uair to clip fox in the neutral game is bad. it requires TAS spacing, and if you miss, you're vulnerable. nair is basically always better, because you can c0ck it back to make it safe.

instant uair in the close-combat game, however, is great. go to 4:02 in my set vs Javi ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrRwD8_63kU ) for an example; I use it to beat his nair. when you're in close combat with Fox, he's much more likely to nair, which you can beat with instant uair. even if he doesn't go for nair, you're much more likely to sweep him off the floor with it because you know he'll be within a small portion of the stage.

instant uair should really only be used vs spacies at percents where it will cause knockdown.

 

[Aggromidget]

i have definitely seen hax clip the top part of fox/falco's shield with an sh instant uair and then space away to avoid any possible shield punishment (and I DO MEAN GROUNDED).

instant uair to clip fox in the neutral game is bad. it requires TAS spacing, and if you miss, you're vulnerable. nair is basically always better, because you can c0ck it back to make it safe.

Hax = TAS?

instant uair in the close-combat game, however, is great. go to 4:02 in my set vs Javi ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrRwD8_63kU ) for an example; I use it to beat his nair. when you're in close combat with Fox, he's much more likely to nair, which you can beat with instant uair. even if he doesn't go for nair, you're much more likely to sweep him off the floor with it because you know he'll be within a small portion of the stage.

instant uair should really only be used vs spacies at percents where it will cause knockdown.

He was in shield when you u-air, he jumped out and got hit. If he didn't jump and wasn't shielding, would that have hit?
Personally, I'd never have u-air because I'm not sure if it would hit. I'd have gone for the n-air. I always spam n-airs in close quarters until they get hit, then go for the grab (or tech-chase). In this case, if n-air was used instead, Javi would have jumped into it, gets hit by the second hit, gets knocked off stage in stun, Hax l-cancel jump off knee? If Javi didn't jump and get hit by n-air, he'd be in shield for grab anyway? All this hypothesising, I should stop. So much ifs

 

[Boat Mode]

Instant uair hits fox and anyone taller assuming proper spacing

 

[Hax]

^it's extremely unrealistic to hit a good Fox in the neutral game with it though, because he's JUST at the height threshold. I'd say its for Falco, Marth, Peach, and Captain Falcon in the neutral game, and those 4 + Fox in the close-combat game. Sheik is always crouching and Jigglypuff isn't tall enough.

 

[Aggromidget]

Let's say that the u-air missed (which isn't unlikely), then you're vulnerable for a (long) time without any threat of attack, whereas with n-air, it comes out fast (just as fast), stays out longer. The difference in knockback is that u-air knocks at a higher trajectory + slightly lower knockback, and it stays out long enough that the hitbox is still out when you hit the ground, allowing you to l-cancel it into whatever the heck you want to do. The only difference is that you can't reach above you with n-air, but when they're ground/low, then I'm proposing that n-air is more effective

 

[Windrose]

I've always thought up air comes out faster than nair. isn't upair falcon's fastest move?

Also the first hit of nair is really weak and can be sdi'd and cc'd. although both hits of nair and also upair can be cc'd if the percent is low enough. Pretty sure the first hit of nair is way weaker than upair though.

 

[Aggromidget]

I've always thought up air comes out faster than nair. isn't upair falcon's fastest move?

Also the first hit of nair is really weak and can be sdi'd and cc'd. although both hits of nair and also upair can be cc'd if the percent is low enough. Pretty sure the first hit of nair is way weaker than upair though.

Yes, the first hit is weaker. The second one is the one the gives the knockback to the move. At times, the first hit combos into the second. Personally, I don't care which hit hits the opponent as long as the opponent gets hit, and I'm a firm believer that my success in hitting opponents in the neutral game is at maximum when I n-air
And u-air comes out 1/60th of a second faster. U-air comes out at 6, and n-air at 7

 

[Aggromidget]

The more I play, the more I realise that n-air is the best aerial in the neutral game. Instant n-air, latest double-hit n-air, last hit n-air. And of course, you have to be competitive in the neutral before you can get your combos started. Otherwise, if you don't win the neutral game, you'll be getting combo'd and your own combo skills are useless.

 

[Aggromidget]

Okay guys, I've discovered this Falcon called Lord. I love it soooo muuch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GU9Tp63QjA
He's like "Here, have some n-airs to your face. Oh you shielded it, have another"
He also does that quick u-air as well, and it catches SFAT heaps. I don't get why it's so effective. I guess it's because SFAT doesn't move around on the ground a whole lot, jumps around. Noted.
I just know that I'm gonna watch this over and over.
Note that he doesn't do a whole lot of dash dance spacing. What he does is get close enough and shoves that n-air in the space in right front of SFAT or even on his shield/body moving in and out, and when it hits, proceed to u-air, since SFAT jumps.
*Squeeee*

 

[gravy]

I think lord is definitely the second best falcon.

 

[Twinkles]

I think Lord is amazing and is one of my most favorite Falcons to watch

If you don't think hax and s2j are easily the two best falcons in the world though, I think you're tripping hard

retreating insta-uair seems really good...catches the nair approach and ends before landing, so you're ridiculously safe while doing so

 

[gravy]

I just don't believe s2j is nearly consistent enough. Went out LR2 at the last tourney, has notable recent losses to Hugo, bizarro flame, fiction, I think it's fair to say there's no way he'd do as well against sfat as lord did in this video. Pretty soon I'm going to stop believing s2j is even top 5.

 

[Twinkles]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vwATAGQuOU&noredirect=1

also, last sss he beat fiction in a solid 2-0. he got 3rd, only lost to wes and lucky, both of whom are easily top-tier spacies

socal's top do generally seem to have a big issue with consistency though. no way he'd as well as lord against sfat though? brotha, you are delusional. you also probably underestimate hugo and fiction

 

[gravy]

Nah, I realize that fiction and Hugo are amazing players, but the fact that he nearly always beats Hugo and then dropped a game to him out of nowhere is just another example of inconsistency. I'm sorry, we're clearly not going to agree on this topic, and I realize my opinion is contreversial. I'm just tired of inconsistent falcons.

 

[Twinkles]

Falcon is a very inconsistent character. At his very core, he's just downright volatile. Some of his most devastating punishes are based in reads, he destroys stocks like no other, but he gets tapped and he just gets molly whopped left and right.

I think your opinion is hastily made and doesn't do respect to any of the people you're trying to gauge performance about.

I'm pretty sure every falcon has a time of bad losses in their career. You don't count them down and out until they're actually out though dude.

I mean seriously, Lord > s2j because he got one good set against SFAT that he didn't even win?

 

[gravy]

Hmm, I'll just reserve judgement until a year from now, and see what they've both done. But really, I'm not making the judgement based off the sfat set, I'm making it based off watching them play in general. To me, lord just makes smarter decisions and seems to have better spacing. I could be wrong!

On a side note, I very strongly fight against the idea that a player can't be consistent with falcon, I'll always be waiting for the player who starts an armada-esque reign with falcon.

 

[Nicco]

Hello, I'm that falcon btw. Whaddaaaaaap!

Lord plays like hax, but not as good.

S2J plays like S2J. Some things that S2J do can seem weird at times, but other things are amazing.

 

[Twinkles]

Yeah, I hear ya.

I'm not saying being inconsistent with Falcon is impossible, and I think Hax has done a pretty good job of it so far. It's just a LOT harder than being consistent with a lot of other characters.

Lord's playstyle is more obvious in terms of goodness. The spacing is something real you can see and the decision making is sometimes surprising but always leaves you impressed.

s2j has a lot of subtleties though. A LOT. Minute adjustments in spacing and fast decision making that almost always leaves him covering so many damn options at once.

 

[S l o X]

man every thread turns into which falcon is better, it's so dumb. nothing matters but 1st.

running across the stage and approaching with uair sucks (against fox), it's good if you're infighting though or when they are gonna jump oos.
(http://youtu.be/8vwATAGQuOU?t=3m8s or 5:01 he puts his shield down and still gets hit)

you kind of have to place it (like a wall) in their face and have their hurtbox run into it. if you try to use it like knee you're just gonna end up trading.

 

[Twinkles]

the best falcons are pretty far ahead of the curve from what i can tell

comparing them is a good way to analyze what's really good about them and what's really not

doesn't seem dumb to me, but i dunno i guess ur entitled to your own opinion

but yeah, i agree with your analysis slox. it's not an approach and more like a wall. it feels somewhat like using marth's fair, pretty good for holding down safe pressure or putting up some defense