Beneath the (not-so) Rotting Pizza: Frame Data + Mechanics

[Smooth Criminal]

Spoiler

Move | Start-up | Lag | IASA | Total Frames | Block-Freeze | Block-Freeze (Self) | Blockstun | Advantage (Drop/OoS) | Other Information

Jab 1 | 4 | 25 | 9 | 29 | 5 | 5 | 3 | -15/-22

Jab 2 | 5 | 27 | 11 | 32 | 5 | 5 | 3 |-17/-24

Jab 3 | 6 | 31 | | 37 | 7 | 7 | 4 | -20/-27

F-Tilt | 9 | 26 | | 35 | 9 | 9 | 8 |-11/-18

D-Tilt | 7 | 33 | | 40 | 7 | 7 | 6 | -20/-27

U-Tilt | 6 | 26 | | 32 | 8 | 8 | 6 | -13/-20

Dash Attack | 9 | 36 | | 45 | 9 | 9 | 8 | -21/-28

F-Smash | 19/24/28 | 35 | | 63 | 7/14 | 7/14 | 3/9 | -19/-26

D-Smash | 8/22 | 41/27 | | 49 | 6/10 | 6/10 | 4/9 | -30/-11, -37/-18

U-Smash | 15 | 31 | | 46 | 10 | 10 | 9 | -15/-22

N-Air | 5 | 15 | 35 | | 8 | 8 | 6 | -2/-9

F-Air | 18 | 18 | 54 | | 16/10 | 16/10 | 10/9 | -1/-2, -8/-9 | Second block values are for the weak hit!

B-Air | 11 | 14 | 42 | | 10 | 10 | 9 | +2/-5

D-Air | 11 | 26 | 60 | | 12/8 | 12/8 | 10/6 | -9/-13, -16/-20 | Second block values are for the weak hit!

U-Air | 7 | 15 | 45 | | 10 | 10 | 9 | +1/-6

Blade Beam | 18 | 42 | | 60 | 5 | 0 | 3 | -27/-34 | Projectile lasts for 51 frames

Limit Blade Beam | 16/17/23/29/35/41/44 | 16 | | 60 | 2/6 | 0 | 3/2 | -1/-8 | Projectile lasts for 42 frames

Cross Slash 1 | 10 | 30 | 18 | 40 | 6 | 6 | 4 | -19/-26

Cross Slash 2 | 2 | 29 | 16 | 31 | 6 | 6 | 3 | -19/-26

Cross Slash 3 | 2/11/25 | 30 | | 55 | 0/3/14 | 0/3/14 | 4/3/5 | -18/-25

Limit Cross Slash | 10/14/22/25/37 | 23 | | 60 | 2/0/0/0/17 | 2/0/0/0/17 | 4/4/4/4/7 | -9/-16

Limit Charge | | | | 6 | | | | | 362 frames to full charge from empty

Finishing Touch | 16 | 63 | | 79 | 8 | 8 | 2 | -54/-61

Climhazzard | 7/10 | 20 | 28 | | 12/7 | 12/7 | -/4 | | Lag is landing lag

Limit Climhazzard | 7/10 | 20 | 33 | | 14/15 | 14/15 | -/6 | | Lag is landing lag.

Climhazzard Follow-up | 12 | 41 | | | 6/6 | 6/6 | -/4 |-29/-36 | Lag is landing lag. Landing hitbox appears on the first frame.

Grab | 7 | 24 | | 31

Dash Grab | 10 | 29 | | 39

Pivot Grab | 12 | 25 | | 37

Pummel | 5 | | 26

Forward Throw | 7/9 | 26 | | 35

Back Throw | 13/15 | 16 | | 31

Down Throw (Jiggilypuff) | 16 | 21 | | 37

Down Throw (Wii Fit Trainer) | 18 | 25 | | 43

Down Throw (Bowser) | 21 | 28 | | 49

Up Throw | 8/13/15 | 35 | | 50

Spotdodge | | | | 27

Forward Roll/Back Roll | | | | 31

Credit goes to the lab rats and Master Core fiends who provided me this gem from which to transcribe from. Please note that it may or may not be finalized, as the possibility of a future patch still exists.

I'll edit this post to include stats for Cloud's changes while in Limit Mode at some point.

Enjoy!

Smooth Criminal

 

[JimmyTheCaterpillar]

Ayyy my man Smooth Criminal up I here.

Cloud looks pretty cool, if a little unpolished, but he's not released yet so we good.

From what it seems like, he seems to be if Ike and Shulk had a baby but it's much too early to judge. Howeve, if I could say anything, I can't see him being overpowered; the Limit Breaker move seems like a charging move and would probably be difficult to pull off in a 1v1 setting. But he could still be up there in the tiers.

 

[Smash4United]

Not to bash OP, but:

I already started this exact thread a while back. It has a gfycat of all available moves. I will update it to be more clear and add a description to all of the moves / mechanics behind it. Some moves already have this.
Furthermore I also added some frame data and will finish it tomorrow when I wake up. Not really sure why this empty thread is stickied and the thread containing this info isn't.

http://smashboards.com/threads/cloud-moveset-analysis-including-gifycats-frame-data.423261/

edit:
just realized people who might be way better at frame interpretation might be working adding/here.

 

[Little Z]

Nair has 8 frames landing lag, no autocancel RIP spacing

 

[Smooth Criminal]

edit:
just realized people who might be way better at frame interpretation might be working adding/here.

Exactly.

Like I said, it's a placeholder thread. Not complete in the slightest. Pretty spartan-looking at the moment because, well, what do we have to go on right now? Absolutely nothing. We're gonna have some bright minds in the community at work picking through the actual raw frame data dumps when Cloud finally arrives, so don't worry about that.

But, it's a collaborative thing. I hope to get everybody on-board around here. Feel free to share any thoughts you have in the meantime.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Smash4United]

Ok, so I went trough all the framedata available to me. Below are the results. Taken from my original post & thread here: http://smashboards.com/threads/cloud-moveset-analysis-including-gifycats-frame-data.423261/
This topic contains all moves (gfycat and framedata as posted below).

Sony Vegas rates the input file at 25.008 fps. Frames according to the project in Sony Vegas. No idea how to interpretate but here goes:

Spoiler: Utility

Utility:
Roll:
Start: 1.404
End: 1.416 / 1.417
Frames: 12/13

Spotdodge:
Start: 1.134
End 1.145 / 1.146
Frames: 11/12

Jump:
Start: 1.048
Double Jump:
Start: 1.058
End: 1.068

Spoiler: Jab + Dash Attack

Jab:
Neutral Jab:
Landing: 1.167
Start: 1.168
Connect: 1.170
First hit end: 1.174
Second hit start & confirm: 1.175 (motion appears to be instant)
Second hit end: 1.180
Third hit start: 1.181
Third hit confirm: 1.182
Third hit end: 1.188 (sword stops glowing)
Video end: 1.195 (Cloud is not shown to go into neutral)

Dash Attack:
Start: 1.755 (animation start, motion change from dash to dash attack, he changes sword stance during this motion)
Hitbox: 1.757 (sword starts glowing)
Confirm: 1.758 (hits Mega Man)
Second Motion Hitbox: 1.762 (holds sword in front of him)
Hitbox end: 1.766 (glow stops)
At 1.768 Cloud is not yet in neutral.

Spoiler: Throws

Throws:
Back throw:
Lands at: 1.772
Dashes at: 1.773
Starts grab: 1.776 (changes animation)
Grabs at: 1.780
Starts Back Throw: 1.781
Hitbox Back throw: 1.786 (kick)
Neutral stance: 1.801

Spoiler: Arials

Arials:
Neutral Air:
Start: 1.731 (probably already started before this)
Hitbox start: 1.732
Confirm: 1.736
End hitbox: 1.740 (stops glowing)
Lands: 1.742
Ends: 1.748
Start Dash: 1.749

Up Air:
Start: 1.264 (animation starts)
Hitbox: 1.266 (hit confirm and moment where his sword glows green)
First Hitbox end: 1.267 (no more glowing animation)
Second hitbox start: 1.269 (sword starts to glow again)
Second hitbox end: 1.279 (sword loses glow)
No idea about move end.

Down Air:
Start: 1.333 (animation starts)
Hitbox: 1.337 (the coincidence!!!!!!!!!!!) (sword glows green and hitbox confirmed)
End hitbox: 1.354 (sword stop glowing green)
End animation: 1.364 (cloud imputs jump animation)

Forward Air:
Start: 1.092
Flash: 1.096
Hitbox: 1.098
End: 1.115
Startup frames: 5/6
Total frames: 23

Back Air:
Jump start: 1.145
Start: 1.147 (Back Air Animation starts)
Swing: 1.150 (Back Air hitbox starts, sword glows green)
Connects: 1.152
End glowing animation: 1.156
End: 1.164 (Clip ends).
I'm not sure if he already defaults to neutral stance during the clip.

Spoiler: Tilts

Tilts:
Up Tilt:
Start: 1.116
End glowing animation: 1.123
End: 1.134 (start of Spotdodge)

Down Tilt:
Landing: 1.239
Start: 1.241
Connects: 1.245 (also first fully stretched feet position)
Slide end: 1.255
End: 1.261 (start of jump)

Forward Tilt:
Start: 1.197
Startup end: 1.199 (sword still behind cloud)
Hit confirm: 1.200
Still glow on sword: 1.204
End of hitbox: 1.205 (sword is behind him and has no glow)
Neutral stance: 1.230 (not sure about this. Can't really see his end animation).

Spoiler: Smash Attacks

Smash Attacks:
Up Smash:
Start: 1.1375
Hitbox start: 1.381 (sword glows green)
Hit confirm: 1.383
Hitbox end: 1.392 (sword stops glowing green)
At 1.399 Cloud is still not in Neutral stance.

Down Smash:
Start: 1.417 (start of animation)
Hilt connect: 1.420 (hilt of the sword connects with Little Mac)
Hilt retract: 1.422 (starts retracting hilt)
Backward hitbox: 1.427 (sword starts glowing green)
End backward hitbox: 1.433 (sword stops glowing green)
End animation: 1.451 (transitions to taunt afterwards)

Forward Smash:
This move behaves differently if you connect a hit.

No enemy:
Start: 1.587 (start of animation)
First Hitbox start: 1.595 (sword starts glowing)
First Hitbox end: 1.596
Second Hitbox start: 1.597 (sword starts glowing)
Second Hitbox end: 1.598
Third Hitbox start: 1.599
Third Hitbox end: 1.600
End animation: 1.621

On Robin:
Start: 1.642 (start of animation)
First Hitbox start: 1.650 (Hits Robin)
First Hitbox end: 1.653 (stops glowing)
Second Hitbox start: 1.655 (Sword starts glowing)
Second Hitbox confirm: 1.656 (hits Robin)
Second Hitbox end: 1.659
Third Hitbox start: 1.660
Third Hitbox end: 1.667
End animation: 1.688

Spoiler: Special Moves

Special Moves:
Neutral B:
Already in motion at: 1.841
Sword behind cloud: 1.842
Hitbox active: 1.847 (sword in front of him glowing green)
Blade Beam launched: 1.848 (Beam short distance from sword)
Blade Beam still active: 1.856

Neutral B in air (animation behave's differently?):
Already in motion at: 1.857
Hitbox: 1.860
Hits bowser: 1.864
Hitbox dissapears: 1.867

Neutral B during landing/grounded:
In motion at: 1.877
Hitbox: 1.885
Hits Bowser: 1.892
1.092 Cloud almost in neutral stance.

Up B:
This move appears to have have different animations based on either input - or hit confirm;

Normal Up B:
start: 2.000
thrust forward start: 2.002
thrust complete: 2.003
upward momentum: 2.004
Cake hit: 2.006
top of motion range: 2.012 (hitbox end)
Sword flashes at 2.038
neutral stance: 2.039
Not sure if 2.012 - 2.037 is lag or just falling animation without input. Probably lag since his sword shines at 2.039

Up B against Falcon:
Animation start: 2.048
Hit confirm: 2.050
Upward momentum: 2.056
2nd hitbox: 2.058
hitbox end: 2.063
top range of upward motion: 2.071
new move animation start: 2.068
downward hitbox: 2.073
spikes ground: 2.080 (appears to be hitbox end too)
neutral stance: 2.098 (falcon still in hitstun as evident by smoke coming from his body)

Down B (Limit charge):
This move either charges when taking damag, when manually charging or with a combination of taking damage and charging additional meter manually.

Already in animation at: 2.251
fully charged: 2.288
Neutral stance: 2.295

Forward B
This move seems to behave differently grounded vs. arial

Grounded against Ryu:
In animation at: 1.903
First Hitbox: 1.906 (green glow)
Hit confirm: 1.907
End first hitbox: 1.912
Second hitbox: 1.913
Confirm: 1.913
End second hitbox: 1.918
Third hitbox: 1.921
Confirm hit: 1.922
Fourt hitbox: 1.925
Confirm: 1.925
End hitbox: 1.928
Fifth hitbox: 1.930
Confirm: 1.932
End hitbox:. 1.939

Arial against Greninja:
In animation at: 1.943
First Hitbox: 1.944
Confirm: 1.945
End first hitbox: 1.947
2nd hitbox: 1.948
confirm: 1.948
end 2nd hitbox: 1.953
3rd hitbox: 1.957
confirm: 1.957
4th hitbox: 1.960
end 4th: 1.963
5th hitbox: 1.965
confirm: 1.966
5th end: 1.975
Animation end not shown at 1.977

Spoiler: Limit Charged Special moves

Limit Charged Special Moves:
Limit Charged Neutral B:
Animation starts: 2.368
hitbox: 2.374 (assumed since there is no glow)
beam hits: 2.380
last hit confirm from beam: 2.394 (multiple hits, can't count hitboxes)
clouds sword blinks at: 2.392
animation ends: 2.397
neutral stance: 2.398

Limit Charged Up B:
Animation starts: 2.410
keeps falling until: 2.412
hitbox: 2.412/2.413
upward momentum: 2.414
hitbox end 2.419
peak: 2.423
cliff grab: 2.426

Limit Charged Down B:
Animation start: 2.451
Hitbox: 2.455
Confirm Roy: 2.457
confirm link: 2.474
End hitbox: 2.480
No neutral stance at 2.510

Limit Charged Forward B:
Appears to be invincible during startup.

animation starts at 2.320
First hitbox starts: 2.323
Fox Dash confirms on cloud at 2.323
Sheik's Bouncing Fish confirms on cloud at 2.324
Cloud's animation confirms on sheik at: 2.325
Cloud's animation on fox confirms at: 2.325
First hitbox ends: 2.327
Second hitbox starts: 2.328
confirms: 2.329
third hitbox starts: 2.331
confirms: 2.332
ends: 2.334
fourth hitbox starts: 2.335
confirms: 2.336
ends: 2.356
Not returned to neutral at: 2.366

 

[KuroganeHammer]

... Guys... You can't get frame data this way off a YouTube video...

 

[Smooth Criminal]

KuroganeHammer

I know. Really I wanted this thread to just be kinda here so when we do get concrete stuff, there's already a place for it. That's all.

I feel like speculation about this kinda stuff is ok as long as it's known that it's purely conjecture until we know for sure. I'll edit the OP with this in mind.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Ffamran]

KuroganeHammer

I know. Really I wanted this thread to just be kinda here so when we do get concrete stuff, there's already a place for it. That's all.

I feel like speculation about this kinda stuff is ok as long as it's known that it's purely conjecture until we know for sure. I'll edit the OP with this in mind.

Smooth Criminal

Smooth Criminal, Silent Doom has some rough estimates in frames that he posted in the other thread. Maybe the OP should have that? It's the closest thing we'll have to raw data.

I might as well add my observations to the speculation melting pot:

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3smdlo/estimate_frame_data_and_analysis_for_clouds/

Based on gfys that were roughly 29-30fps, so I merely counted the frames and approximately doubled them so it's all rough estimates.

Tbh with regards to Cross Slash and Blade Beam, I'm not quite sure which is which for Neutral B and Side B. The more I think about it the more I think it's more likely to be Blade Beam N-B and Cross Slash S-B but hey I guess we'll wait and see. Up B definitely seems like a combination of Climhazzard as he rises and Braver as he crashes down.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

As trusted as Silentdoom is, I'd rather not put down anything in the OP that we can't prove reliably, be it by rote or by virtue of data gleaned from the game itself. That's what I intended for this thread. I figured I'd let observation/speculation rock here for a bit, but it's fast becoming cluttered.

In fact, Ffamran , I'm beginning to think Smash4United 's thread is better suited to that line of thought, dissecting Cloud's moveset in a manner befitting speculation. I'd like to request a motion to temporarily lock this thread for now until Cloud's out. I'll put a link to Smash4United 's thread in the OP.

I apologize for the inconvenience.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Fatmanonice]

Temporarily locked by request.

 

[FalKoopa]

Thread is open.

 

[Chiroz]

Can someone confirm whether Charge Cancel is frame 1?

As in can I input an attack 1 frame after I cancel Down-B just like jumping OoS?

Also can someone tell me how many frames is the starting animation too (so I can know what's the least possible amount of Charge frames Cloud has to do). Seems like it's really short, like less than a jab startup short.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I can't give you a definitive answer for the Limit Cancel, but I'm leaning towards it being in the realm of near instantaneous. I'll make sure to update the OP with with this extra miscellany in the future.

And it's 6 frames in total, at least from what I gleaned from the table I transcribed.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Chiroz]

I can't give you a definitive answer for the Limit Cancel, but I'm leaning towards it being in the realm of near instantaneous. I'll make sure to update the OP with with this extra miscellany in the future.

And it's 6 frames in total, at least from what I gleaned from the table I transcribed.

Smooth Criminal

By total you mean I can start AND cancel in 6 frames? That's less than a shield drop. Probably going to be a staple tech of Cloud using the charge cancel to input other moves.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Yeah that's what I'm saying.

But do not take my word as gospel, though. I could be very wrong. More testing needs to be done, haha

Smooth Criminal

 

[Chiroz]

Yeah that's what I'm saying.

But do not take my word as gospel, though. I could be very wrong. More testing needs to be done, haha

Smooth Criminal

How does one go about to test frames?

Capture video at 60 fps and then play on a software that can play video frame by frame?

I've never done it before and I always have to ask people to do it for me, hahaha.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

That's one way of doing it, yes. It's a pain in the ass, and I don't have a capture card available right this second, so I can't do it.

I'll make sure to poke the lab rats and see what they come up with.

Smooth Criminal

 

[[vs]]

Does this go here?... Cloud's Side-B slices Palutena's Reflector one-hit.

 

[Aquasition]

So, I was playing Cloud a few hours ago, and had a Limit-Break Cross Slash just beat out a True Shoryuken.

Here's a GIF:http://www.gfycat.com/FlickeringHarmlessDrongo
It's grainy due to zoom in and camera quality, but you can see Ryu attempting True Shoryu, and not hitting Cloud, while Cloud hits him with Cross Slash.

So, I'm basically here to report that the Limit Break version of Cross Slash has intangibility frames. I don't know when said frames start up and end, however.

If the potato quality is too much for you guys, I uploaded the replay to the Replay section of the 3DS, so you can check it there.

Thanks for listening.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Was this online or offline?

Smooth Criminal

 

[Aquasition]

Was this online or offline?

Smooth Criminal

Online.
So I guess it won't help for which frames he's intangible in, though it should still be intangible.

TO THE LAB!

 

[free33]

Should this be in here or have its own thread?: There should be an organized list of all the stat buffs Cloud gets from having the limit meter filled. I have heard he gets increased weight, speed, etc. this needs to be labbed out so we can figure out how beneficial it is to keep the meter charged up. more potential followups? idk, but it is important.