BBR+Mod [Politics] VS. smash members (some of them)

[GTZ]

I would like to identify an issue that I have seen a lot of recently. It has shown up in a lot of different topics, and doesn't seem to be helping anybody with anything.. I am stating merely my opinion on the matter and would appreciate my fellow smashboard members' opinions on this... I feel that certain parties waste more time arguing about who's right and wrong, then just getting to the bottom of things... I see constant trolling and flaming, and I'd rather be discussing things pertinent to the threads I click on. So here's the thing.. its pretty much some BBR/mods that are always being flamed/fighting with certain ""higher"" members of smashboards.. no names needed, I'm just here to show both sides of this..

Don't you think the BBR has discussions on their own when deciding certain rulesets? I mean, you have to have a solid application just to be considered, paired with a considerable working knowledge of all aspects of the game & then some. The people who tend to many of the pressing matters of the community obviously have their strengths and flaws. Without "draws/ties" in smash brawl, the timer poses a new issue. I do not need to repost what people are saying here, but it makes no sense to propose an untested idea. Nobody who is not a member of the BBR understands what goes on in those private conversations. How do you know how green the grass is on the other side? To effectively propose solutions to these "debates" would require you to gain access and authority. Look, it's like our country, you have to have authority and power to make a change. There will be some BBR members that you may not like or you feel aren't "qualified", but honestly its your opinion against theirs, and they call the shots. Mods/BBR shouldn't abuse their powers, I understand, and I assume we should have the right to post our opinions... The BBR should involve the community, via a thread or such, where you can vote on certain decisions that they are weighing. (just an example from a recent thread dispute) Vote now on the timer rule:
1. same stock winner has low%
2. ties/draws
3. sudden death next ko wins
4. maintain same rule
5. other
** seeing an official room/thread for interaction (as limited as needed) between the general population and the BBR would prove to be a very effective solution for these threads, and anti-BBR decision discussions that seems to pop-up everywhere.. I mean look at the thread on the BBR tier list discussion.. It gets out of hand quick... The ability to allow the "average joe" a chance to express his opinion will benefit the community in a vast number of ways. Our government, though corrupt and faulty, is the most effective government system in the world today... This community needs less separation between the general population and the smashboards authority.

*Look, I really don't take sides in these discussions, I just try to see this from a general perspective. I have highlighted the strengths and weaknesses of both sides, and it's up to everyone to fix the issues at hand.. BBR/Mods, do not assume because you are a private, "cream of the crop" community, that there are not fresh ideas and very smart people on these boards who are not MODS/BBR members. There are many many people who are more than qualified to make an impact and state their opinions... Just because you reject "nameless person A" from becoming a member, doesn't mean that the individual is stupid or not qualified, it means that he/she is not qualified in your/whomever's opinion..
*General members/non mods/non bbrs, don't flame and rebel against the smash authority because you didn't get accepted, there are reasons why things happen, and the BBR/Mod membership can be political, like any other community. Don't take it personally, just keep pushing to make things right for the community. The smash community is what matters here, not how many posts you have or how much you think youknow. The community and the many people in it are what matters... every noob, pro, mod, bbr member, guy girl whatever. No single person is responsible for making this community work.. it takes everyone.

 

[Wretched]

This isn't about brawl at all.
When I go into general brawl discussion I don't want to read about how members are interacting.
I want to read about brawl.
I agree with you that people should actually argue about what they're really arguing over.

 

[GTZ]

yeah I understand, well should I put this thread somewhere else? I mean, I'm unsure of where or how to put it.. I'm just fed up with he/she said all the time... I felt it was a general discussion because the real problem here is how the fundamentals (ie. tier list + rules and regs) are decided with little to no interaction of the general brawl population... In reality I am trying to suggest a more reasonable way for us regular members to make a difference in the way this community is run... Looking into it from a bigger picture, as some people would like to say... at least make us think we have a say in things... Just don't confuse me with any old member who's mad at not having their BBR application accepted, I'd rather just impact the community in a beneficial way.. again I see your point about this thread not having a direct correlation to general brawl, but the majority of players here may feel its pertinence to the game itself, seeing as the parties involved are both Brawl players and Brawl's BBR, whom makes most of the executive decisions on this particular game, its rules, character ranking, etc.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

You posted this in another thread where I replied to it, but just the TL;DR version here: A lot of the smash community is not just stupid but flat-out ******** and should be kept as far away from the power to determine rulesets as humanly possible.

 

[GTZ]

so what about the people with a reasonable head on their shoulders who still get denied.. not that I ever applied, I'm just saying hypothetically...

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

so what about the people with a reasonable head on their shoulders who still get denied.. not that I ever applied, I'm just saying hypothetically...

Examples? Did they apply? Were they perhaps overridden because there was an entrant cap? Hard to tell, you'd have to ask the BBR. I mean, when you raise the total number of smashers, the top elite gets more and more intelligent on average...

 

[rPSIvysaur]

You posted this in another thread where I replied to it, but just the TL;DR version here: A lot of the smash community is not just stupid but flat-out ******** and should be kept as far away from the power to determine rulesets as humanly possible.

Then why do you even care?

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I'm not even sure if that was a stealth insult or not.

 

[GTZ]

rPSI, my words exactly

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

...What the hell is this?

 

[GTZ]

...What the hell is this?

It's a thread...

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

So, are you saying that there should be no BBR?

 

[GTZ]

So, are you saying that there should be no BBR?

No, not at all, that's not what I'm getting at.. I just feel that the only reasonable solution is to make their decisions more democratic, like maybe making a thread type area where the general population gets a chance to say, vote or something... obviously the choices and such can be delegated by the BBR, but to have it not exist defeats the purpose of what I'm trying to say.. I just think that the BBR is a little too hush hush private about their decision making, and I also think that admittance to such an area could be as political as any other leadership group... maybe if we could all take a step back, like not put the BBR on such a high pedestal.. there are normal members who also affect the community as well. average smashers can help too.. many BBR members are more than qualified to be where they are, but what about the people who aren't, who are equally as intellectual... I obviously am not in the BBR, but that doesn't make me biased about the group because there are plenty of jerkoffs that flame them just for being members, which is not right either.. I just think that including a limited amount of interaction between the general community and the BBR would indeed be beneficial because they could get an unbiased general outside perspective of what us normal tournaments-goers/hosts/intellectuals who aren't in the BBR. We all are on smashboards for one reason, we love to smash, and there are people who want just as much good for the community as a whole as the BBR. If I could vote on an issue, even if I couldn't comment on it, it would at least give me and everyone else a chance to have their say... Instead of, "well apply and if WE FEEL YOU ARE QUALIFIED, you can become accepted and such..." Is this what's necessary for making an impact if you don't spend hours and hours on the threads? I feel many people use this as a gateway, not a delegation. This web site is as much of a guide as anything, but the people who make the 85% of the community who don't actually have access to, say, the BBR threads, have NO hope of making an impact unless they do something wayy out of the ordinary to make the BBR "feel" that they are worthy.... what if an average joe had the solution to one or more of these "private" discussions? Then instead of wasting time on issues, votes could be taken to help gain an outside perspective... I'm just explaining both sides to this issue in the thread, I do agree that the BBR should exist, but not so sercretly, behind closed doors, you know... It can create some issues with a lot of people, thus why so many senjor SWF members flame many BBR's.. they feel qualified but cannot gain access... just consider the voting as a means of interaction between the general smash population and the BBR, it could be very beneficial to the community as a whole..

GOD, I am getting carpal tunnel from this thread.. LOL.. oh and thanks for your responses guys, I am open to all opinions and feedback on the matter, all are welcome, smashers and BBRS/MODs

 

[rPSIvysaur]

I'm not even sure if that was a stealth insult or not.

I asked you a question.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

No, not at all, that's not what I'm getting at.. I just feel that the only reasonable solution is to make their decisions more democratic, like maybe making a thread type area where the general population gets a chance to say, vote or something... obviously the choices and such can be delegated by the BBR, but to have it not exist defeats the purpose of what I'm trying to say.. I just think that the BBR is a little too hush hush private about their decision making, and I also think that admittance to such an area could be as political as any other leadership group... maybe if we could all take a step back, like not put the BBR on such a high pedestal.. there are normal members who also affect the community as well. average smashers can help too.. many BBR members are more than qualified to be where they are, but what about the people who aren't, who are equally as intellectual... I obviously am not in the BBR, but that doesn't make me biased about the group because there are plenty of jerkoffs that flame them just for being members, which is not right either.. I just think that including a limited amount of interaction between the general community and the BBR would indeed be beneficial because they could get an unbiased general outside perspective of what us normal tournaments-goers/hosts/intellectuals who aren't in the BBR. We all are on smashboards for one reason, we love to smash, and there are people who want just as much good for the community as a whole as the BBR. If I could vote on an issue, even if I couldn't comment on it, it would at least give me and everyone else a chance to have their say... Instead of, "well apply and if WE FEEL YOU ARE QUALIFIED, you can become accepted and such..." Is this what's necessary for making an impact if you don't spend hours and hours on the threads? I feel many people use this as a gateway, not a delegation. This web site is as much of a guide as anything, but the people who make the 85% of the community who don't actually have access to, say, the BBR threads, have NO hope of making an impact unless they do something wayy out of the ordinary to make the BBR "feel" that they are worthy.... what if an average joe had the solution to one or more of these "private" discussions? Then instead of wasting time on issues, votes could be taken to help gain an outside perspective... I'm just explaining both sides to this issue in the thread, I do agree that the BBR should exist, but not so sercretly, behind closed doors, you know... It can create some issues with a lot of people, thus why so many senjor SWF members flame many BBR's.. they feel qualified but cannot gain access... just consider the voting as a means of interaction between the general smash population and the BBR, it could be very beneficial to the community as a whole..

GOD, I am getting carpal tunnel from this thread.. LOL.. oh and thanks for your responses guys, I am open to all opinions and feedback on the matter, all are welcome, smashers and BBRS/MODs

There's a reason the BBR exists. A "public stage legality " poll would let biased people, scrubs decide the rules of brawl.

 

[SuSa]

BBR tried that with a "Should we ban MK" poll once.

Needless to say, the results and threads were horrible. Creating more threads like this should also not be done. Especially since most smashers don't know jack ****. Yea, there are those who do.. but they are far outweighed. You can't take a discussion thread on BBR issues seriously if 1/2 the people don't know what they are talking about, and the other 1/2 who'm do know are being drowned out by the 30403930 casuals who reply just for the hell of it because they think they should.

Oh, and also:
"3. sudden death next ko wins"

Whoever said that is stupid... this may have been a great idea if it were not for LUCARIO being in the game. This puts him at an extreme disadvantage. (Remember, in a normal 3 stock match when Lucario falls behind, he actually gets stronger and can make comebacks easier...)

PS:
I'm not saying anyone who isn't in the BBR is an idiot. Just a vast majority of them.

 

[GTZ]

what if the voting was a priviledge? or what if someone whom is considered "scrub" by other people, actually can bring something to the table..? what if the "scrub" is an ex returning member with a new profile...? how can you be so sure of its failure when it hasn't even been attempted?

you know susa... thats a seemingly logical answer... its just hard when there are many of us who want to impact the community, who cannot because BBR assumes we aren't qualified... what if there was a secondary limited membership where people who are smart and proven could get into the BBR without full priviledges? with the advantage of moving to the next level... it would take more work, but may pay out in terms of allowing more fresh ideals to enter into the BBR? no/YeS?

 

[SuSa]

That group of people is already unofficially identified. Most players know the top players in their area, and those are the people with the greatest influence. The reasoning being - they are the top players in their area.

They may not be in the BBR, they mightt not be mods (mod status doesn't matter anyways, trust me), but their ideas are listened to and respected by the BBR because of who they are.

Yes, once in a great while some 'scrub' comes along with a pretty decent argument, and maybe some of his ideas are listened to. This does happen, extremely rare.

The majority of people who seem to get annoyed with the BBR are people whom put a lot of time/effort into thinking of something; only to have it torn apart (by logic they missed) or simply ignored because it's that bad.

Voting priviledge = BBR. Wallah.
2) Rare.
3) Possible, but then most people know who it is.
4) It's been attempted a few times before... all times it turned out poorly.


If you want to make an impact, be able to argue for your standpoint and provide logical reasoning as to what makes it so important. Actually think the course of action through. Show that you know what you are talking about, and if able - try to attend and place well at tournaments.

I was never BBR, and while I was mod - mod has nothing to do with smash knowledge - but people listened to me. Why? I knew what I was talking about, I put stuff out on the table, and I had some respect from my area for actually knowing what I was talking about when it came to Snake. That respect was something I earned by spending hours researching and theorycrafting my material before presenting it, attending tournaments and displaying it in action, and getting decent placements and in some instances beating other players whom also had respect for being knowledgeable and good players.

If you want to make a difference, you have to put in the effort.

 

[GTZ]

you have a good argument.. this thread was an experiment to see how it would turn out... I honestly don't have the time to be in the BBR, it never really appealed to me.. I actually just really enjoy going to tournaments, and am getting ready to start becoming a tourney host as well, this ""debate"" if you will, was a lot of fun... I would be happy to discuss things with you again SuSa, you make excellent points and don't just flame threads, no wonder they gave you mod rights... anybody esle have anything to add to this discussion?

It seems to have died, this thread.. you can close it if you'd like mods... unless anyone else has anything to add?