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bbALLSTAR23's Attempt at an Unbiased Character List

bballstar23

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
914
Location
Chicago
Switch FC
SW-2383-6686-1312
PLEASE READ:
I tried to make this list as unbiased as possible, even listing characters I really dislike as part of the playable character roster. What I did to figure out their probability is basically look at the arguments made in each of their threads, as well as look at their potential movesets and whatnot. I basically tried to do as much research as possible before making this, to try and eliminate bias, but I'll admit there probably is still some left in it. I got tired of seeing threads full of lists without reasoning behind their decisions, so I decided to add some sort of reasoning for each character, except of course with those already confirmed. You'll easily be able to tell which ones I wrote first, because those are the longest ones. I eventually realized though, that it would be better to go to the official thread of the character so I don't end up repeating everything they say, so some arguments may be shorter than others, only because some characters, like Luigi, don't need much evidence to back up their inclusion in Brawl. You don't have to read my reasoning at all if you don't want to, but if you mention something I already addressed than that's your fault for not reading. You should probably just look at those characters whose inclusion or exclusion you disagree with the most. Instead of just flaming me, feel free to argue my points or correct anything I might have said that is wrong. Also, if you'd like to add support to any of my cases, then feel free to do that too. Moreover, this list really has no definite number of characters, because it is hard to determine what everyone considers a separate character. For example, Samus and Zero Suit Samus have separate spots on the Dojo, but on the character select screen they share one spot essentially, just like Zelda and Sheik did in Melee. Another example of this is Pokemon Trainer, who has three different characters with movesets, but each does not have a separate spot on the Dojo or character select screen. Therefore, I will most likely go for spots on the character select screen, because that will probably give a better outlook on how the number may look. As you can tell, some of this is redundant, because I wrote this in more of a stream of consciousness manner, getting things down as they came to me or before I forgot. I put some hard work into making this over the past month and hope you enjoy it, since I rushed to finish this before the Coro Coro update; I didn't want my work to go to waste basically.

Red = Deconfirmed through DOJO
Orange = Deconfirmed through Leak/Gameplay
Yellow = Confirmed through DOJO
Green = Confirmed through Leak/Gameplay
HM = Honorable Mention

Mario

I believe the Mario series will end up with 6 characters, increasing the number they had in Melee by one.



Luigi:
The series is called Super Smash Brothers for a reason. Luigi pretty much has a guaranteed spot, and there is no reason for me to even argue a case for him at all, so I won't. The only thing I would like to mention is his moveset. Since most people are complaining about clones, I think Luigi could have more variation then just his "Luigified" moveset. The truth is though, that Mario and Luigi are essentially twins, so I don't mind their similarities to each other. The one thing that would probably change is Luigi's down-B; since Mario's is FLUDD, it would only make sense that Luigi's would have to do with his Poltergust 3000, and that is what is most likely to be expected. Sakurai may throw in some other changes too, but for those, we will have to play Brawl.

Bowser Jr.:
When I first heard Jr. mentioned, I felt a bit skeptical. I was never a big fan of Super Mario Sunshine, so I didn't really like the concept of Bowser Jr. being in Brawl. The fact of the matter is though, that he has a pretty good shot. The Mario franchise is an ever expanding, central part of Nintendo, and it only makes sense that they get the most representatives in Brawl. Bowser Jr. has been a boss in 3 of the latest Mario games; he's also seen more participation in the Mario sports and party titles. It would not be surprising to see him in Brawl, and he would be an interesting addition to the fray.

Geno:
Geno is one guy who's been very questionable around here. Personally, I hadn't heard of him until I played Super Mario RPG on my friend's Super Famicom back in October. Though eventually we did get to the part about Geno, I didn't really even think about his inclusion in Brawl, mainly because I thought he was a one time character. I never even knew of his existence until I played the game, but he seems to have a big following around here eleven years after his game was released. I don't really like him very much, so I was surprised to see him so high in the polls. I had to search the boards and find a topic about him before realizing who everyone was referring to, even though I'd played the game a month before. In my opinion, Geno would be a perfect WTF character for those who haven't played or heard about the game. Geno has a huge cult following, one large enough to allow him to join Brawl. If you just look around these forums, you'll see him in just about everybody's sigs, showing them how popular he is. Some people use the argument of how Sakurai finds popular characters boring, but Geno's case is much different. He would have a unique moveset, and judging by the characters who have been introduced, Sakurai is paying attention to the polls. There is the issue of Geno being owned by Square-Enix, but with their good relations with Nintendo, I doubt they'd hesitate giving him up. He is hardly the best character to represent them anyway, so I doubt they would even care too much, as long as they get their name in the credits like they did in his cameo in Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga. Moreover, Geno wouldn't take over the precious third-party slot that people fear he will; he'll be considered a first party character who is a part of the Mario franchise. Though I hate to admit it, Geno actually does have a good chance of being a character in Brawl.

Honorable Mention:



Paper Mario:
I have nothing against Paper Mario and his originality. He was originally created to bring back 2D platforming in a 3D universe, and though I originally didn't like him, he eventually grew on me. The main reason he probably won't make it in is the fact that the Mario universe has such a diverse selection to choose from, that a 2D Mario may be unnecessary, but if he did, he could potentially replace Dr. Mario, who is essentially Mario in a doctor's outfit. The main difference between Paper Mario and Mario are their abilities, but otherwise they are essentially the same Mario in two different worlds, as opposed to Link and Cel-Link, who are two different characters who share the same destiny but are from different universes. The last thing Paper Mario has going against him is popularity. He does not seem to have a big enough following or enough support to garner him a spot on the roster.

Waluigi:
With the announcement of Wario as a character, there has been some speculation and/or desire of Waluigi to become playable. Unfortunately, his chances are slim. While Wario has had his own series of games in the Wario Land games, and WarioWare games, Waluigi has only appeared in party or sports games, the genre where he originated from. While Waluigi could be given a brand new moveset, there is nothing about him that justifies the time needed to do this. While it would be fun to have a Mario brothers and Wario brothers battle, with more unique and popular characters likely to get in Brawl.


Legend of Zelda

The Zelda series deserves about 5 representatives, though as you can see, I had trouble picking the last one to round out the series.



Ganondorf:
In the Legend of Zelda, Ganondorf has control over the Triforce of Power, while Link and Zelda hold the other two pieces of the Triforce, which is a central part of the entire series. With the other two members already in Brawl, it only seems appropriate that the last member of the big three per se, makes it in. Moreover, people are asking for more villains in Brawl, so why remove one already established as a character within the franchise? It wouldn't be too difficult to assign him a new un-cloned moveset, giving Ganon an almost absolute chance of returning.

Sheik:
I never really approved of Sheik in Melee, partly because I felt she was just included to have an alternative to Zelda, and most people ended up using her over Zelda. The only real justification of Sheik still being in is that she is Zelda, and would not take any extra roster or character spots as she would be part of Zelda's moveset again. Back when I first saw Sheik in Melee, I thought it was a questionable decision, and I was only 11. Sheik never was very iconic, and I always thought of her as more of a filler character; to me she seemed odd fighting amongst characters like Mario and Kirby. However, Sheik did make it, and Sakurai isn't likely to cut her for the sake of continuity. Even if Sheik is from a game released almost ten years ago, she could still be a potential homage to Ocarina of Time, considered to be the greatest Zelda title of all time. Sheik has an established moveset, and is still pretty popular due to her fighting potential. Also, there is a rumor that Sheik had a Twilight Princess model sent to Sakurai for us in Brawl. (I originally had a lot more written, but my stupid computer erased it all.)


Young Link:
This is one that may have a biased argument, but for a good reason. First of all, Cel-Shaded Link wouldn't take up any spaces that weren't there before, but only replace the previous Young Link, with a fresh look and moveset. The cel-shaded Link started out on the Gamecube, but it seems as if he has come to represent the hand held world of Zelda. This side of Zelda is a more childish side focused on exploration and is based more off of Miyamoto's original vision of the games, which were based around his own childhood imagination and exploration of the landscape surrounding his house. Many people have a hate for this incarnation of Link, mainly because he strays from what they deem the "true" Zelda nature. The only man who can determine this though, is Miyamoto himself, who seems to have taken a liking to this new version of the Zelda games. With the recent success of Phantom Hourglass, which has drawn comparisons to Ocarina of Time, it only makes sense that this version of Link be included. His moves could easily be separated from Link's, and they can have the "cartoony," childish feel given to them as well. Moreover, he was actually fairly high in Sakurai's polls, if that says anything. This version of Young Link is not just another Link, and would be a perfect fit for Brawl.

HM:



Midna/Wolf Link:
Midna actually has a couple of things going for her. The first is the fact that Brawl is shifting over to a Twilight Princess theme for the Zelda characters, and seeing as she is Link's helper in the most recent game, she would be a good fit. Moreover, Midna is a female, and the lack of females has been addressed before, so adding her would not hurt at all. Midna could either be paired with or without Wolf Link, as she has potential either way. The only problem with her right now is significance in the series. To me, she would be another Sheik, mainly because she is a one time character as well. Also, the ending suggests that she won't be in anymore Zelda games, though I don't really see that as a factor for Brawl. Throughout the game, I saw her as more of an active Navi, so to speak. For those people that want her in because she is the most recent, I believe those are the wrong reasons to support her. For those that want her in for uniqueness, then I believe she could have the potential to be a new favorite on the roster with or without Wolf Link.

Skull Kid:
The Skull Kid has been a pretty consistent character since Ocarina of Time, eventually earning himself a spot as a main antagonist in Majora's Mask, under the control of Majora's Mask. Skull Kid also makes an appearance in Twilight Princess, though he looks very different. The problem with Skull Kid is his importance. Yes, he has appeared in three games, and yes, he has been the main villain in one, but he still does not seem to have too much significance on the series as a whole, and in reality his one role as a villain dealt him becoming a victim of the mask as a result of his mischievous nature. The main reason people seem to want him in, is for his Final Smash potential, which has to do with bringing down the moon onto the stage. However, if that's all people want to see, he'd be better off as an Assist Trophy, because that's what seems to be happening with characters who have a limited moveset. I'm not saying he couldn't have one, because anyone could, I just don't think too much time needs to be spent on this character, though he would be a nice surprise.

Tingle:
Tingle seems to be the most hated character in America, hell, I hate his guts too. He's been annoying in every game he's been in, but for some reason he's popular elsewhere in the world. This popularity has allowed him to star in two games of his own. One of these, Freshly-Picked Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland, was released in both Japan and Europe. Nintendo was smart enough not to release it in America, because of the extreme hate for him. Tingle is a pretty likely character in Brawl. To much dismay, Tingle actually seems like he could be a viable candidate as a character. His moveset would most likely adapt that of Balloon Fighter's, and he would be able to add the personality that Balloon Fighter was apparently lacking. Since Majora's Mask, Tingle has become a central character in the series, forcing one to have to buy their maps from him. The one thing that probably deconfirms him though, is the Dojo's Trophies update, where Tingle is clearly seen in one of the pictures. Now, Sakurai is not one to give away his characters easily, so I'm guessing Tingle may be an AT at best, which is still more than what people even want from him around here. Think about it though, if he is a character, which is still pretty unlikely, at least you'll have fun beating him up like you've always wanted too.

Vaati:
Vaati has the honor of appearing as the main antagonist in three handheld Zelda games. Only Ganondorf seems to has appeared more as a main villain; Vaati would be able to represent the handheld Zelda series, specifically the ones developed for the Game Boy Advance. However, Vaati is not as popular or well known as some of the other choices, and may be overlooked. He still would add to the villain count in Brawl, and would help Zelda become one of the first series with two villainous representatives. Nevertheless, he would be a good complement to Cel-Link if he made it in.

Pokemon



I have to admit that the Pokemon franchise, which I gave up on a long time ago, isn't my expertise, so bear with me here.

Jigglypuff:
Jiggylpuff has been a main unlockable since the 64 days, and I really see no reason why Sakurai would take Jiggly out, especially since she has unique abilities and a unique moveset. Though not as popular as before, she has enough history with Smash to allow her to rejoin the Brawl.

Mewtwo:
Mewtwo was one of my favorites in Melee, and I would be sad to see him go, though I doubt he'll be kicked out. Many people want him to be replaced by Lucario, but I can't understand why they can't coexist. Mewtwo is a different type of Pokemon, and already has his own moveset, though he could be buffed a bit. Plus, Mewtwo is another already established villain, which doesn't hurt his case at all, and still has some popularity as a character.

Lucario:
With most characters from the first generation of Pokemon characters, I believe Lucario will be able to represent the more recent generation as a whole. While Pichu was implemented in Melee to help rep the then-current second generation, Lucario will be able to do the same for the fourth generation of Pokemon. He would also be the first fighting type Pokemon, which would make sense, since Brawl is a fighting game. Lucario is one of the most popular Pokemon as of now, and it would make sense to include him for promotional purposes. Also, his moveset would be pretty unique from all other characters in Brawl, and contrary to what others may think, he would not be too similar to Mewtwo.

Kirby



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bballstar23

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
914
Location
Chicago
Switch FC
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Donkey Kong



King K. Rool:
The recent drought of good Donkey Kong games has been pretty sad, as he's been reduced to a bongo banging musical monkey. We haven't seen a good DK platformer since Donkey Kong Country 64, mainly because of Rare's departure from Nintendo. However, to celebrate Donkey Kong's good ol days, why not add the main villain from the Donkey Kong Country series? As I stated before, there is a higher demand for more villains, and K. Rool would fit that role perfectly. Plus, he would be a Donkey Kong representative, one of Nintendo's series that could use more representation. Moreover, there is his popularity level indicated by his number of votes on Sakurai's poll.

Star Fox

The hardest choice by far, was trying to determine which 2 Star Fox characters would make it along side Fox.



Krystal:
Krystal is one of the main reasons I sold Star Fox Adventures when I got my Gamecube. I never really liked the gameplay (even as a Zelda fan), since I was hoping for something closer to Star Fox 64 (plus I got twenty bucks for a game that came free with my Gamecube). Regardless, Krystal has gone on to become a major character in the Star Fox series, taking the place of Peppy in the cockpit. One benefit she has, is the fact that she is the love interest of Fox, and has some sort of a backstory, something Wolf can't claim to having. Moreover, she could easily be given a moveset, and as many have been saying, she would be the first staff user in Brawl, which would be pretty unique. One thing we know for sure though, is that she will appear in the game in one form or another after being leaked on her voice actor's site. The last thing she has going for her is she is female, in a game that's lacking them. Essentially, Krystal has a pretty good shot at being in Brawl.

Falco:
Falco's always been one of my favorite characters from the Star Fox series, even though he wasn't playable until Assault (to my knowledge at least). I think that already having a history in the Smash Bros. series already gives him an edge over Wolf, though from what I hear, Wolf is more popular. It would also be a little easier to unclone Falco, as well, by using moves from Star Fox Assault. Also, Falco has another edge over Wolf, which deals with the fact that he's appeared in more Star Fox games than Wolf has. Overall, I think Falco has one of the best shots at being a character in Brawl.

HM:



Wolf:
I have nothing against Wolf, but I just believe he would be too similar to Fox. I'm guessing if Wolf got in they'd have to either come up with an entirely new moveset for him too, or he'd be given Fox's moveset. Though I like Wolf as a character, I don't think he would be able to add any uniqueness from the Star Fox series. Many argue that Wolf is more popular than Falco, and while that is true, you have to remember that Sakurai himself said that popular characters bore him. If Wolf does make it though, I'd rather he replace Krystal, though I doubt that would happen. Wolf has a pretty good shot, but just doesn't have the best shot at making it.

Metroid

The Metroid series will most likely get 2 reps, and 3 if we're lucky.



Ridley:
The Metroid series is in desperate need of a new representative. The Metroid series has been around since the NES, and is one of Nintendo's most succesful franchises. Picking another representative from the series is somewhat difficult, since Samus is the only protagonist throughout the series, so the best representative afterwards, would naturally be an antagonist. Ridley, though never the main antagonist,--correct me if I'm wrong--is one of the main recurring villains of the series. He is one of the characters Samus constantly fights and is responsible for the death of Samus' parents, causing her to have a closer relationship with him than any other villain throughout the series. Some may argue that Zero Suit Samus is the new Metroid rep, but she isn't very refreshing in terms of a series rep, and in reality is just Samus. Additionally, Ridley tied for the second most number of votes in Sakurai's poll, and two other characters with that same amount of votes, Diddy Kong and Ike, have made it in. I won't go into the lame arguments for Ridley, such as with the music updates and such, or the lame counterpoints, such as him being too big and awkward, but really what I've already written encompasses all the main reasons for his inclusion.

HM:



Dark Samus/Metroid Prime:
I know many of you out there are probably going to rip me to shreds for this, but I just don't see it happening. I have nothing against Dark Samus, and would be happy to see him in. However, there are plenty of reasons he'll get the boot. For one, Sakurai doesn't really acknowledge the Prime series at all, with most of the Metroid updates coming from older games. While other characters have been given an updated look, Samus still wears an older version of the Varia Suit, instead of using the Varia Suit she uses in the beginning of Metroid Prime. One could reason that this has to do with Metroid nostalgia or keeping it old school, but Sakurai still acknowledges more of the recent portable games for the Game Boy Advance, such as Metroid Fusion and Metroid Zero Mission. This probably has to do with the Japanese distaste for the Prime series, and its "Americanization" of the game after turning it into an FPS. You could even speculate about this ignorance of the series having to do with Gunpei Yokoi's--the man credited with the creation of Samus--wishes to have Super Metroid be the last game in the series before his untimely death. This is all unfortunate, because Dark Samus would be a great character.

Fire Emblem

As of right now, I don't have much for the Fire Emblem series, but plan to add more if needed.



Marth:
As the star of the original Fire Emblem, Marth is most likely making a return to the Smash Bros. series. He has the advantage of being the first main character of the Fire Emblem series, which provides him with a sense of nostalgia, and garners respect as the central protagonist of the original game. Moreover, Marth's appearance in Melee also helps his chances, since a new moveset would not need to be created for him. Marth also has a new game coming out for the DS, and being in Brawl could help advertise for this new game of his. As a popular character in Melee, it only makes sense that Marth would return for the next installment of the Smash Bros. series.

Micaiah:
I can't really judge her likelihood too accurately, but from what I've heard she is pretty likely for a number of reasons. She would be a female for one, which would help boost the female populace in Brawl. Also, she would help represent the magical side of Fire Emblem and would not be another sword fighter from the series. With Lyn deconfirmed her popularity seems to have increased and is from the latest Fire Emblem game, which could help her chances. If there are any other suggestions that are more deserving, I'd like to hear about them.

HM:



Black Knight:
Since I have yet to play Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance, I am going to go off of what I understand about the character. From videos I've watched, it seems as if the Black Knight would be another heavy character. The Black Knight is a very large and bulky character, especially with all that armor on. Ike looks small in comparison to the Black Knight, meaning if he was included, he would be even slower than Ike, mainly because of his size and the weight of his armor. We already know how slow Ike is, so imagine how slow the Black Knight would be. From what I understand, the Black Knight is Ike's rival in a sense, having killed his father. He does have some pros though; he would be another major villain added to Brawl, which once again is somewhat of a minority. While it would be very cool for some to relive this match up in Brawl, I don't see it happening.

Roy:
Roy has very minimal chances of making it back. At the time, Roy's game was the latest in the Fire Emblem franchise. It was rumored that Sigurd would have taken the second spot had Nintendo not placed Roy in for advertising. That is the main reason why I don't believe Roy is coming back. Roy was merely placed in for advertising, and his significance to the series isn't very large at all, except for being the first main character on a handheld version of Fire Emblem. Since Roy's game on the Game Boy Advance, there have been five new games released, including the upcoming Fire Emblem DS. In Melee, Roy was a clone of Marth, meaning he would need an entirely new uncloned moveset. However, with the implementation of Ike from the latest Fire Emblem, and the likely return of Marth, I doubt Sakurai will go to the trouble of making a new moveset of a character he was forced to put in Melee, especially since, from what I've been told, Roy is not that popular in Japan.

Sigurd:
Sigurd is one of the more popular Fire Emblem characters from what I can tell. However, with Ike already in, and Marth the most likely character to return, his chances are slim. I have nothing against Sigurd, but adding another blue-haired, male swordsman may start to bring a stereotype to the series, which is composed of many different types of lords and characters. It is hard to determine Sigurd's chances, because I've heard that Sakurai and the Japanese public both like him, but I see Marth getting the edge over him with his established moveset.

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bballstar23

Smash Ace
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Location
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Mother



Claus:
Claus would be the perfect complement to Lucas. I don't know much about the Mother series, but the Claus thread has done enough to convince me that he would be a great addition to Brawl. Claus and Lucas both received an equal number of votes on Sakurai's poll; with the shift towards Mother 3 in this game, I believe Claus would be the best choice from that particular game. From what I've read--I don't know Japanese, so I haven't been able to play it--Claus' death and his repeated confrontations with Lucas are what fuel the entire tragic story. Claus would also be another villain to the game, which is what people are looking for more of. Ness' almost indefinite deconfirmation and the need for another Mother rep is basically what's given Claus' chances a boost, and I believe we'll be seeing him in the final roster. (I would like to expand upon Claus' chances if possible)

HM:



Ness:
Ness has pretty much been deconfirmed. The last unlockable character in the original Smash Bros. game, and one of the most popular in Melee, Ness is one character everyone thought would return. However, with the "up until now," update,--which I won't go in depth about--it seems as if Ness is gone. It doesn't help that he was supposed to be replaced by Lucas in Melee as well, but was not due to time constraints. Moreover, Lucas has the same moveset, and I doubt they would bring Ness back with an all new one. It is possible--especially since some of Ness' moves weren't even his--but not likely. However, I am not very disappointed to see him leave, because Lucas seems like he will play very similarly anyway, and I never was a big fan of Ness in the first place

F-Zero



Captain Falcon:
It's nearly impossible to create an argument against Captain Falcon. He is the original F-Zero rep, and already has a unique moveset. He is extremely popular as well, so I don't see why Sakurai would ever decided to take him out at all. He's almost guaranteed, especially with the fact that his logo has already been shown on the Dojo.

HM:



Black Shadow:
Now that Goroh has been deconfirmed, the next F-Zero representative that people have been talking about is Black Shadow. However, this is the only reasoning given for his inclusion, and I haven't been very convinced on why he should be a character. People seem to just want him there so that F-Zero can have a new rep, but I believe a character needs to have some level of uniqueness before being added. It is true that the cartoon and the last game on the Gamecube did add some depth to the characters, but I don't believe it'll be enough to garner his entrance. Since Goroh is Falcon's rival, I guess Black Shadow is the next best guy for the job. If someone can give me better reasoning for him, maybe I'll put him up as a playable character, since my arguments might be biased. My argument is not necessarily against his potential, because there are tons of characters with potential, but my argument focuses more on why people want him in.

Yoshi



Wario



Pikmin



Captain Olimar:
Pikmin is one of Nintendo's newest franchises and has been a very successful series. It is a unique game that incorporates the rapid generation techniques first displayed in Mario 128, which was pretty new when it was released. Moreover, Olimar has a few votes in Sakurai's poll, which seems to have some influence on the introduction of new characters. It at least works as a reference point for Sakurai to see what characters would be the most well received. The Pikmin series is another masterpiece created by Shigeru Miyamoto, and it only makes sense that this franchise would get a representative in the series' main character, Captain Olimar.


Animal Crossing



Villager:
This one was a hard decision. From what it seems, Animal Crossing is getting an increasing number of recognition in the Smash World. Many people think that the Smashville stage may be the only representative of Animal Crossing, and though my opinion has been slightly swayed in this direction, I'm not sure how valid that statement could be. The fact that Animal Crossing has its own logo could be indicative of the likelihood of a new character. However, icons don't necessarily mean that the series will get a character, which is what it seems like for the DS. Though I could be wrong, I doubt the DS will get a character update, and the icon could merely be just for the stage itself. Many people have argued that the Animal Crossing villagers appear in the background of Smashville, but once again there are multiple human characters in Animal Crossing. Furthermore, I have heard rumors that Animal Crossing's creator sent character designs to Sakurai, though this information could be wrong, or these designs could be what was implemented into the background of Smashville. Due mainly to the fact that the game has a stage, an AT, and an item already, it would be fitting for Animal Crossing to get a character as well.

HM:



Tom Nook:
Though he still has some support around here, I believe Tom Nook is still pretty unlikely due to his appearance in the Smashville stage. Some people seem to justify this by saying Nook won't be in the background while you play as him, but I still think that theory is more of a desperate way to justify support for him. Sorry, but I just don't see Nook in Brawl.

Custom Robo



Ray
The Custom Robo series is a fairly new one in America, but has been around in Japan for quite some time. Ray is a pretty good candidate, and I haven't seen anyone who's voiced any strong opposition against Ray, or any reasons why he couldn't be in Brawl except for his extremely detailed costume. The fact that aren't any robots in Brawl would also help to make Ray unique, and he could also be given a potential moveset which can be taken from the hundreds available to him in his four games, though it is uncertain which version of Ray would join Brawl. I believe that Nintendo should not only support its characters that made them what they are today, but also their future, the characters that will further benefit the development of Nintendo and its many unique franchises.

Golden Sun



Isaac:
I'll admit that I don't know much about the Golden Sun series, which is why I cannot say what Isaac's true chances are. I do know that he is fairly popular around here and in Japan (according to the polls), and as a character from a second-party developer, he is technically part of Nintendo. I do know that he is a sword user, but apparently he could have a unique moveset, so I don't think I would mind if he was put in Brawl. I can't really judge his likelihood without an argument to base it off of, so if one of you out there would like to help, I wouldn't mind. All I can say is that Isaac's chances depend on the importance Sakurai gives to the series.

Nintendo Wars

HM:



Andy:
The Nintendo Wars series has been around in Japan since the days of the NES. The first part of the series to come to the U.S. was the Advance Wars series; the first game was actually released in the U.S. before Japan. The problem with the Andy is a character depends more on a moveset as well as popularity. Up until Advance Wars, the commanding officer never really had a name or personality, at least from what I know. The Advance Wars trophy could also possibly confirm or deconfirm a representative. Also, from what I've heard, Advance Wars isn't very popular in Japan, which could hinder his chance and make the Advance Wars AT the only rep in Brawl.

Other

HM:



Mii:
The Mii's are basically the trademark characters of the Nintendo Wii. While they are unique, they may be pretty difficult to implement, at least with the method people want them to be used for, as customizable characters. The thing with customizable characters such as the Mii, is that they may take away from Brawl's uniqueness, or the main theme of Brawl in a sense; this main theme is to have Nintendo's All-Stars battling it out on a stage, and if the Wii is in, surely people would find ways to introduce wacky characters such as Homer Simpson and E.T., taking away from what Brawl is meant to be. I really haven't heard any good arguments for the Mii that could lead me to believe that they would be a good character, and personally, I'd prefer not to be fighting thousands of different Miis online.

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bballstar23

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Retro/Japan-Only



Takamaru:
Takamaru is the star of the game, Nazo no Murasame-jo, which was a game released exclusively in Japan for the Famicom Disk System. While many other games were ported to the NES, this game was left out, but I can't understand why. It may have to do with the fact that it was released alongside titles such as Legend of Zelda, Metroid, and Castelvania, which may or not have been factors in the games success. Takamaru is the first samurai in Nintendo's history, and is another sword user. However, Brawl has yet to see a katana user, and two of the other potential katana users have been deconfirmed (Lyn and Samurai Goroh). While the game never made it to the U.S., it did have a successful re-release on the Gameboy Advance as part of the Famicom Mini Series. This series of games was the same determinant that helped Pit get in to Brawl, though Pit had an advantage of having his game be released in the U.S. also. Moreover, Takamaru had the most votes of any Japan-only or retro character on Sakurai's poll, which could be a factor in his entrance as well. The main hurdles he has to overcome are the fact that there are no sequels to his game and that it was only in Japan, and while those are some pretty big obstacles, I can still see him making it in mostly on his uniqueness.

Mr. Game & Watch:
Mr. Game & Watch is one of Nintendo's most unique characters, and comes from a series of games on Nintendo's first handheld device. For some reason though, people seem to dislike him for his obscurity. Just because he is different though, does not mean that he will get axed from the game. With a previously established moveset, there would be no point in taking him out from the game. Also, adding him wouldn't be very complicated, since he is 2D. It is almost difficult to think up cons for Game & Watch, which is why I'm sure he will be in Brawl.

HM:



Sukapon:
Sukapon originates from the Japan-only game Joy Mech Fight, which was one of the first fighting games on the NES. Though I don't like Sukapon very much, I have to admit that his game is very unique and looks like fun. However, Sakurai has shown much distaste for Sukapon in the past, which makes me wonder how great his chances truly are. Though he would not be totally unexpected since he does have a decent amount of popularity, he still would be a WTF character for some, and would be a pretty interesting fighter. His moves could be taken from his original game, but I heard something about there being a problem with his character model not having limbs, though I hope that isn't true. All in all, he has a decent shot of making it, but I'm not sure how likely it is that he will be in.

Balloon Fighter:
Balloon Fight was a pretty fun game for the NES and an intricate part of Nintendo's history, having a multiple number of re-releases over the year; the main character also has made several cameos in other games as well. The main character of the original Balloon Fight game, the Balloon Fighter, could have a potentially unique moveset. Apparently Balloon Fighter was planned and a 3D model was made for him, which was seen as a trophy in Melee. Lately though, Balloon Fighter seems to have been linked with Ice Climbers in some sort of way in the Smash Bros. universe. This can be seen by the fact that the Balloon Trip music played on the Ice Climbers stage in Melee, and how the fish from Balloon Fight appears on The Summit stage. Since Balloon Fighter was scrapped from Melee, I believe this lessens his chances of appearing in Brawl, but he would be a nice addition nevertheless.

Stafy:
Stafy would be an interesting character addition to Brawl, but I believe that he does not have as high of a chance as other Japan-only characters even with sequels to his series. Stafy's series of games are fairly recent, and have been pretty successful in Japan. However it is hard to judge his popularity since he received less than 2 votes (to my knowledge at least) on Sakurai's polls. I believe Sakurai has stated how he would like the possibility of seeing Stafy and Kirby together, but I'm not sure how accurate that is.

Lip:
Lip has some potential, but I don't think she'll make it for a few reasons. She is a girl, which is a factor in her favor. Her main means of fighting is already an item, though it can be argued that items can be parts of movesets, i.e. the Screwball Attack; the screwball though, is not the only attack available to Samus, while Lip's Stick is once again, her main weapon. Also, Lip seems to be losing popularity, but once again as a retro character that argument can be refuted again with the mention of other retro characters such as the Ice Climbers. The main difference though is that Lip only appeared in a Japan exclusive title, Panel de Pon, or Tetris Attack in America.

Demille:
Demille is another Japan-only character who appeared in the game Tomato Adventure, which was a game for the Game Boy Advance. Demille, or Demiru in Japan, earned a few votes on Sakurai's poll, showing that he is still fresh in the minds of the Japanese people after five years. Demille uses a number of Gimmicks throughout the games, which are toy-like weapons that could be implemented into his moveset. I wouldn't mind his inclusion in Brawl, and this little bunny in blue clothing could be a nice surprise for some.

Muddy Mole:
Muddy Mole is one of Miyamoto's more obscure and lesser known creations, which is why he would be the perfect WTF character for Brawl, as no one would expect him. His chances are very slim however, and I doubt he will make it in. According to IGN, apparently Sakurai has also shown favor to him, so don't count him out just yet.


Third-Party



Mega Man:
Mega Man is one of the most iconic characters in video game history. To some, the quality of his games and his level of importance has faded over the years. However, Mega Man is a big part of Nintendo's past, and when thinking of two of the other most iconic characters in the game, Sonic and Mario, Mega Man immediately comes to mind. His first appearance was on the NES and he's been around for 20 years. What other franchise, not represented in Brawl, can claim that they've been around for that long? Mega Man was the only third party character (discounting Geno) to have more than one vote on Sakurai's poll. Moreover, Mega Man's moveset wouldn't be too hard to implement, as they could be taken from his own games and from the Marvel vs. Capcom series as well. This year will mark Mega Man's 20th anniversary, and what better way to celebrate then by putting him in Brawl (especially since he isn't supposed to be getting a game on the Wii)? Mega Man is definitely the most deserving gaming icon, and I believe he will be in Brawl.

HM:



Pac-Man:
Pac-Man is one of the most recognized icons of gaming and pop culture alike. I doubt it is possible to find someone who does not know who Pac-Man is; that's how famous he is. After the end of the 2D era, Pac-Man hasn't gotten much love after attempting to become a platformer. Pac-Man is Namco's mascot, a company who has very good relations with Nintendo. Pac-Man has also appeared in 2 Mario Kart arcade games, and Shigeru Miyamoto, a huge fan of the series, helped design Pac-Man Vs. for the Nintendo Gamecube, a game in which Mario starred as the announcer. One of the more weaker arguments is Link's cameo in Soul Caliber II, showing the potential for crossovers between Namco and Nintendo. Pac-Man was recently retired by his creator, and what better way to celebrate his retirement than to have him face off against other gaming icons in Brawl?

Bomberman:
I have nothing against Bomberman, but I don't think he has the highest shot of making it into Brawl. He is also a gaming icon, and the mascot of Hudson Soft, a company who has very good relations with Nintendo. Furthermore, he has made an appearance on every Nintendo system, including handhelds, meaning he has a rich history with the company. Once again, Bomberman is another fading series when it comes to quality (Bomberman LIVE anyone?), and a perfect way to celebrate his former accomplishments would be to add him to Brawl. The biggest argument is having a moveset, but if Sakurai is able to create one for either Bomberman or Pac-Man, then why not add them?

Well, this is the end of my list. I may add more to it later, but I'm not sure right now. Discuss, argue, do whatever you want as long as you do so in a courteous and thought provoking manner. YOU MAY POST NOW.
 

vesperview

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Mother



Claus:
Claus would be the perfect complement to Lucas. I don't know much about the Mother series, but the Claus thread has done enough to convince me that he would be a great addition to Brawl. Claus and Lucas both received an equal number of votes on Sakurai's poll; with the shift towards Mother 3 in this game, I believe Claus would be the best choice from that particular game. From what I've read--I don't know Japanese, so I haven't been able to play it--Claus' death and his repeated confrontations with Lucas are what fuel the entire tragic story. Claus would also be another villain to the game, which is what people are looking for more of. Ness' almost indefinite deconfirmation and the need for another Mother rep is basically what's given Claus' chances a boost, and I believe we'll be seeing him in the final roster. (I would like to expand upon Claus' chances if possible)
Excellent! Claus is not really a villain, but he would fill great in that area, nice roster choices BTW.
 

TheLeperKhan

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It looks good.

The only problem I had with it is that none of the characters are that...out there. Maybe I've spent too much time looking into who may or may not get in to be surprised, but a lot of your list seems to be consistent with most everybody's wishes. Any WTF character ideas?
 

Yigguth

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I agree with any list that has Olimar on it
While I don't think everyone on that list will make it, most of them certainly do have a chance.
 

bballstar23

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Thank you Vesper. I know he's more brainwashed, but from what I've read on your thread, that he's to a point where he's soulless or emotionless? It's too late at night for me to describe it properly.

It looks good.

The only problem I had with it is that none of the characters are that...out there. Maybe I've spent too much time looking into who may or may not get in to be surprised, but a lot of your list seems to be consistent with most everybody's wishes. Any WTF character ideas?
Most of them are under HM, but by now people can't be too surprised by anyone. Sukapon and Muddy Mole might be the least expected out of the general public though, as well as Geno. Also, remember I was basing it off arguments and info around the web, so WTF characters don't necessarily have the best arguments to go off of. I'll look into it a bit though.
 

Shuma

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"Dark Samus/Metroid Prime:
I know many of you out there are probably going to rip me to shreds for this, but I just don't see it happening."

Not really, Ridley is much more loved than Dark Sammy.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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Except for a couple choices, this is a very good roster...

I would have preferred Sukapon to Takamaru, but of course that's not an expectation.

A couple characters like an Advanced War character seem impossible...

But pretty good over all...


...More like a dream than realistic though...

Edit: HM, didn't notice it...n/m...
 

IsmaR

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I think this is an awesome roster, and even though I'd love seeing Dark Samus, you make a good point..
This roster is bi***in, keep up the good work :bigthumbu
 

raul

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Overall, it does seem very fair. No major complaints. I only disagree with the fact that 6 mario reps will be there. I'll agree to 5. 6 seems too much but who really knows?
 

Magically Enhanced Hobo

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Excellent thread, must have taken you a lot of time.

Also, I'll be happy to argue for Isaac's case, as you say you can't tell his chances. Well, for one thing, the Golden Sun series was one of, if not the most acclaimed series for the GBA, and certainly the most acclaimed RPG, and they sold pretty darn well to boot. They are excellent games. Not even talking specifically about Brawl, I would recommend that everybody give them a shot if you are into RPG's. They are fantastic. Seriously.

Also, Isaac got two votes on the poll, which is just as much as the confirmed Lucas. Now, that may not mean much to Sakurai, but it at least guarantees that Sakurai gave him some consideration, I would expect, and it shows that he does have a following in Japan. Also, one of GS's composers is working on Brawl, but that could be totally irrelevant.

Finally, and most importantly, Isaac is the perfect Brawl candidate not only because of his popularity, but because he would have an incredibly unique moveset. Now, looking at him you may go "omg sword-wielder!" but that in truth is only a part of his moveset. Much like Claus, Isaac is a magic user who just happens to have a sword. Earth magic, to be specific, although I suppose Sakurai could use Fire, Water, or Wind magic in his moveset. There are also summons in Golden Sun, which would make for a great Final Smash.

Now, Brawl is sorely lacking in the magic users department, and seeing as how Golden Sun certainly -deseves- a representative(don't let anyone tell you otherwise, I'd rather see an important rep from a small series than a minor rep from a huge series, e.g. random pokemon #54), I think a playable character and a stage or two is not too much.

Oh, I totally agree with your Donkey Kong and Fire Emblem sections, man. I haven't beaten Radiant Dawn, but I'm pretty dang close, and I can safely say it's my favorite Fire Emblem yet, probably because it's the only one that has challenged me as a tactician(I usually tear turn-based tactics games up) and Micaiah is certainly the most deserving of a spot from there. I don't like Marth, but I agree he's the most likely second candidate as well.
 

shinhed-echi

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*takes off hat and bows*
Brilliant...

I don't know why.. But I agree with your whole list. Even with Bowser Jr, King K.Rap, and Micaiah.

Maybe it's the fact that you backed everything up. GREAT JOB on the roster!!!

Takamaru, Isaan, Ray, Andy and Olimar FTW!

I think this is a pretty awesome and likely roster!
 

Cranberry Rogue

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To me, 45 or so characters kind of seems like a lot, but in all honesty, I more or less agree with a lot of the choices on this list, the exception being the exclusion of Tom Nook. I don't really think that the game needs any more ambiguous characters (Pokemon Trainer being the one that we already have), so I'd like to think that Nook has a much better shot than the Villager.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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To me, 45 or so characters kind of seems like a lot, but in all honesty, I more or less agree with a lot of the choices on this list, the exception being the exclusion of Tom Nook. I don't really think that the game needs any more ambiguous characters (Pokemon Trainer being the one that we already have), so I'd like to think that Nook has a much better shot than the Villager.
See, I HATE that idea...

Ambiguous characters to me = fail

and PKMN Trainer to me is RED, who isn't generic like you apparently want...
 

jtjt43

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Very balanced, unbiased character list. Well done.

No arguments from me, except for the inclusion of an AC character - not needed in my opinion
 

DeuceBlade

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This is very good, I agree with all of it except one part that I won't get into, but overall good character list.

+10 for not including Sukapon.
 

Quetzacotyl

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A very well done roster. Only issues I'd have with it are that a Nintendo Wars section seems a bit far fetched and that there're a couple of characters I'd think would at least qualify for honourable mention (well, actually, only honourable mention, I don't think they'd actually get in) (namely Pokey Minch and Viewtiful Joe).
 

nobletoast

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This roster is perfect....nearly.

But i prefer Suka to Takamaru and Midna to WW Link but it doesnt really matter.

+No Black Shadow, Ashley or Stafy,Starfy,Srafy or whatever its called.
 

Rhubarbo

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Spectacular! If only Sakurai made the roster EXACTLY like this. Best character list I have ever seen...EVER!

(This is because you included Isaac, Olimar, Y.Link, Ray01, and Animal Crosser)
 

Machete

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I disagree with some characters, but, overall, this is a nice roster.
 

HipsterKid

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It was all very thought out and it was done well but I think your reasoning behind Midna wasn't thought out as much as I would have.

I mean, you can say Midna has only been in one game but there hasn't been another Adult-Link Legend of Zelda game yet so you can't exactly totally put that as a reason against her.
Another thing you might want to consider is the fact that Twilight Princess revolves around Midna. I think she is a little higher on the importance list than both Sheik and Navi put together.

Just things that you can reconsider for your reasoning. Other than that, you get two thumbs up. :]
 

PsychoIncarnate

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It was all very thought out and it was done well but I think your reasoning behind Midna wasn't thought out as much as I would have.

I mean, you can say Midna has only been in one game but there hasn't been another Adult-Link Legend of Zelda game yet so you can't exactly totally put that as a reason against her.
Another thing you might want to consider is the fact that Twilight Princess revolves around Midna. I think she is a little higher on the importance list than both Sheik and Navi put together.

Just things that you can reconsider for your reasoning. Other than that, you get two thumbs up. :]
I fail to see how her chances are that high.

She may be more important than Sheik, but Sheik is already a character IN the Smash series
 

HipsterKid

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I fail to see how her chances are that high.

She may be more important than Sheik, but Sheik is already a character IN the Smash series
All I said was that she is more than just another Navi. She is the Twilight Princess, the game being about her. That makes a basis for her chances in Brawl. Of course, it's not a 90 percent chance but I'd say it's about a 70 percent chance.
 
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HM:



Dark Samus/Metroid Prime:
I know many of you out there are probably going to rip me to shreds for this, but I just don't see it happening. I have nothing against Dark Samus, and would be happy to see him in. However, there are plenty of reasons he'll get the boot. For one, Sakurai doesn't really acknowledge the Prime series at all, with most of the Metroid updates coming from older games. While other characters have been given an updated look, Samus still wears an older version of the Varia Suit, instead of using the Varia Suit she uses in the beginning of Metroid Prime. One could reason that this has to do with Metroid nostalgia or keeping it old school, but Sakurai still acknowledges more of the recent portable games for the Game Boy Advance, such as Metroid Fusion and Metroid Zero Mission. This probably has to do with the Japanese distaste for the Prime series, and its "Americanization" of the game after turning it into an FPS. You could even speculate about this ignorance of the series having to do with Gunpei Yokoi's--the man credited with the creation of Samus--wishes to have Super Metroid be the last game in the series before his untimely death. This is all unfortunate, because Dark Samus would be a great character.
I'd like to say first that even though I support Dark Samus greatly (and obviously), I always realized that her chances were less than great, but I don't think they're all that terrible either. I also like Ridley more than her, but that's beside the point. I think Sakurai's intent on giving Brawl influence from worldwide opinions boosts her chances. It isn't all about Japan's opinion anymore. Including her would also give the Metroid series a well-rounded representation. Samus, the obvious choice, Ridley from the older generation of games, and Dark Samus from the newer games. Anyway, would you agree that if Metroid did get a third rep (Samus/Zero Suit Samus counting as one, Ridley as the second), Dark Samus would be the only logical choice?
 

IsmaR

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I'd like to say first that even though I support Dark Samus greatly (and obviously), I always realized that her chances were less than great, but I don't think they're all that terrible either. I also like Ridley more than her, but that's beside the point. I think Sakurai's intent on giving Brawl influence from worldwide opinions boosts her chances. It isn't all about Japan's opinion anymore. Including her would also give the Metroid series a well-rounded representation. Samus, the obvious choice, Ridley from the older generation of games, and Dark Samus from the newer games. Anyway, would you agree that if Metroid did get a third rep (Samus/Zero Suit Samus counting as one, Ridley as the second), Dark Samus would be the only logical choice?
QFT

10 chars
 

Machete

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, Dark Samus would be the only logical choice?
Well, if you don't count Samus and Ridley, then only Mother Brain outprioritizes Dark Samus... but... well... Mother Brain as a PC???

Yeah, Dark Samus would be the most logical choice if you don't count Samus and Ridley.
 

Santini

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This is a very good roster. I think every character in the game will be on your list in some manner.

The only thing I'd add is Hector as an HM to Fire Emblem. He's kind of popular and would be farily unique.
 
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Well, if you don't count Samus and Ridley, then only Mother Brain outprioritizes Dark Samus... but... well... Mother Brain as a PC???

Yeah, Dark Samus would be the most logical choice if you don't count Samus and Ridley.
Mother Brain is just a brain in a tank, with no Smash compatibility whatsoever. Also, I think Dark Samus has been in the same amount of games, and that's if you count Zero Mission as separate from the original Metroid.
 

Pengie

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Very nice roster but I could probably do without an Animal Crossing character or Tingle *shudders*.
 

DarkVision

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Mother Brain is just a brain in a tank, with no Smash compatibility whatsoever. Also, I think Dark Samus has been in the same amount of games, and that's if you count Zero Mission as separate from the original Metroid.
Either Ridley OR Dark Samus are getting in, I don't see Metroid with that many reps since Sakurai didn't acknowledge it as a thriving series until recently
 
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